To all who recommend bimax.

[Deleted member 5385]

Some people here think that facepulling, non surgical way to fix are cope and the only way is surgery. Typical jaw surgery only fix alveoral ringe and lenght of mandible body. This won't fix many damages which are caused by downward growth- long nose(midface), negative orbital vector, low cheekbones, shit ramus, gonial angle, antegonial notch and many others. Just look at this gif

Jaw surgery only affect small part of lower third. Only ccw rotation which can be done during surgery is LeFort 1 area. You can't get Lefort 2 or 3 with counterclockwise rotation.
People are trying to find non surgical ways to fix downward growth not because they are afraid of surgery but because it doesn't fix really important damages like long nose etc.
So people have rights to put MSE with facepulling above jaw surgery. Because it potencially fix everything. Yes, potencially-thats why I hope some users here will get that stuff and will show non surgical> surgical. Forget to say LeFort probably will turn you blind and your nerves will be damaged.
At the end some interesting article

Case Analysis: Recessed Versus Forward Faces - My Posture and Orthodontics Blog

Looking at this picture it’s not really hard to tell the extent of growth on both faces. Most people would correctly identify the left face as recessed and the right one as forward, but how exactly is such difference determined? For many, the lower jawline is the giveaway. While this is...

www.aljabri.com

 

[Deleted member 5912]

Is there a way to get rotation of the entire maxilla??

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Is there a way to get rotation of the entire maxilla??

I don't know any surgey- Lefort 3 can't rotate maxilla, I hope that MSE+FM will be succesful, but still we unfortunately don't have enough information about possible upswing. Maybe in the future IT will change

 

[Deleted member 5912]

I don't know any surgey- Lefort 3 can't rotate maxilla, I hope that MSE+FM will be succesful, but still we unfortunately don't have enough information about possible upswing. Maybe in the future IT will change

could someone do mlf3 and rotate the lf1 section of the midface?

 

[BradAniston]

Just mew bro

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Just mew bro

Mewing would be only succesful after spliting sutures

 

[BradAniston]

Mewing would be only succesful after spliting sutures

Just facepull with 2kg

 

[Deleted member 5385]

could someone do mlf3 and rotate the lf1 section of the midface?

 

[Deleted member 5385]

I wish FM and MSE will be able to change like this

 

[MentalistKebab]

Some people here think that facepulling, non surgical way to fix are cope and the only way is surgery. Typical jaw surgery only fix alveoral ringe and lenght of mandible body. This won't fix many damages which are caused by downward growth- long nose(midface), negative orbital vector, low cheekbones, shit ramus, gonial angle, antegonial notch and many others. Just look at this gif
View attachment 490341
Jaw surgery only affect small part of lower third. Only ccw rotation which can be done during surgery is LeFort 1 area. You can't get Lefort 2 or 3 with counterclockwise rotation.
People are trying to find non surgical ways to fix downward growth not because they are afraid of surgery but because it doesn't fix really important damages like long nose etc.
So people have rights to put MSE with facepulling above jaw surgery. Because it potencially fix everything. Yes, potencially-thats why I hope some users here will get that stuff and will show non surgical> surgical. Forget to say LeFort probably will turn you blind and your nerves will be damaged.
At the end some interesting article

Case Analysis: Recessed Versus Forward Faces - My Posture and Orthodontics Blog

Looking at this picture it’s not really hard to tell the extent of growth on both faces. Most people would correctly identify the left face as recessed and the right one as forward, but how exactly is such difference determined? For many, the lower jawline is the giveaway. While this is...

www.aljabri.com

Just get a Lefort1 with ccw rotation and get custom implants for upper midface and infraorbitals.

There is no proof of facepulling changing the bone structure yet.
For an appliance that practically requires you to be a neet 24/7 for months it practically bigger cope than mewing itself.

 

[BradAniston]

 

[Deleted member 5061]

Some people here think that facepulling, non surgical way to fix are cope and the only way is surgery. Typical jaw surgery only fix alveoral ringe and lenght of mandible body. This won't fix many damages which are caused by downward growth- long nose(midface), negative orbital vector, low cheekbones, shit ramus, gonial angle, antegonial notch and many others. Just look at this gif
View attachment 490341
Jaw surgery only affect small part of lower third. Only ccw rotation which can be done during surgery is LeFort 1 area. You can't get Lefort 2 or 3 with counterclockwise rotation.
People are trying to find non surgical ways to fix downward growth not because they are afraid of surgery but because it doesn't fix really important damages like long nose etc.
So people have rights to put MSE with facepulling above jaw surgery. Because it potencially fix everything. Yes, potencially-thats why I hope some users here will get that stuff and will show non surgical> surgical. Forget to say LeFort probably will turn you blind and your nerves will be damaged.
At the end some interesting article

Case Analysis: Recessed Versus Forward Faces - My Posture and Orthodontics Blog

Looking at this picture it’s not really hard to tell the extent of growth on both faces. Most people would correctly identify the left face as recessed and the right one as forward, but how exactly is such difference determined? For many, the lower jawline is the giveaway. While this is...

www.aljabri.com

Yes, well observated, greycel.

Bimax is just quick "optical" fix. At least in the case of mouth breathing it doesnt fix everything (genetical recession is something different). It doesnt fix all underlying issues caused by years of mouthbreathing. And that is exactly why results are oftentimes limited to how much improvement one can get.

Just for that fact alone, I wouldnt disreguard alternative methods like MSE treatment combined with other stuff, like maybe facepulling. Simply because those methods would come closest to reversing the effects of year long mouthbreathing. Bimax is just a quick and dirty "optical" fix. But for some it might be enough to ascend.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Just get a Lefort1 with ccw rotation and get custom implants for upper midface and infraorbitals.

There is no proof of facepulling changing the bone structure yet.
For an appliance that practically requires you to be a neet 24/7 for months it practically bigger cope than mewing itself.

I know but as I said in a thread IT won't affect upper maxilla and I don't want pieces of silicon in my face which will infect and erode my bones after few years. Also why IT wouldn't work if you split sutures and maxilla is "free" again.

 

[Subhuman trash]

Post bimax failures. Bimax seems to yield results much more consistently than implants do and MSE doesn’t always do anything

 

[Deleted member 5061]

I wish FM and MSE will be able to change like this
View attachment 490381

link the article pls, m8.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

link the article pls, m8.

Case Analysis: Recessed Versus Forward Faces - My Posture and Orthodontics Blog

Looking at this picture it’s not really hard to tell the extent of growth on both faces. Most people would correctly identify the left face as recessed and the right one as forward, but how exactly is such difference determined? For many, the lower jawline is the giveaway. While this is...

www.aljabri.com

 

[MentalistKebab]

I know but as I said in a thread IT won't affect upper maxilla and I don't want pieces of silicon in my face which will infect and erode my bones after few years. Also why IT wouldn't work if you split sutures and maxilla is "free" again.

Muh I dont want implants .
Bro infection chance is low and bone erosion happens naturally in old guys anyway. You could revise the implants once every 8 year too.

And about why it wouldnt, Idk. There is just not a proof of it ever working in adults. And I dont get how upswing rotation has anything to do with midline of maxilla being split or not.

 

[Deleted member 5912]

View attachment 490376

so its possible to do lf3 and lf1(for rotation) together

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Post bimax failures. Bimax seems to yield results much more consistently than implants do and MSE doesn’t always do anything

Lefort surgeries are done since 1901, MSE is reaaly new like 2011. Give IT more time, have great potencial.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Muh I dont want implants .
Bro infection chance is low and bone erosion happens naturally in old guys anyway. You could revise the implants once every 8 year too.

And about why it wouldnt, Idk. There is just not a proof of it ever working in adults. And I dont get how upswing rotation has anything to do with midline of maxilla being split or not.

Even chance of infection is low there is still risky and I wouldn't want an infection in my eye area

 

[SixCRY]

Bro show me bad bimax results

Dont forget lower third is thé post important part of the face

MSE+Facepulling is cope because yes you split maxilary suture but what about other suture? You only exerce pression on them so they move SLOWLY

To reverse 20y of mouthbreathing u need more than 1y of MSE to fix it

 

[Slyfex8]

Op why are you saying a bunch of nonsense things ?

 

[Deleted member 5385]

To reverse 20y of mouthbreathing u need more than 1y of MSE to fix it

Yeah, I know. Nobody said that It will be fast. Also I don't have terribly recessions. I would need theoretically like 5mm.

Only genio/chin wing would help me very much, but I really need way above average forward growth- for singing, better sport results, more confidence. Seriously.

 

[Deleted member 5061]

Yeah, I know. Nobody said that It will be fast. Also I don't have terribly recessions. I would need theoretically like 5mm.View attachment 490459
Only genio/chin wing would help me very much, but I really need way above average forward growth- for singing, better sport results, more confidence. Seriously.

imagine singing in 2020...
Nah Im just kidding, yeah you have suboptimal forward growth and also some downward growth of bimaxilla. The gonial angle looks suboptimal too. But its nowhere near "over" tier.

 

[Deleted member 5385]

imagine singing in 2020...
Nah Im just kidding, yeah you have suboptimal forward growth and also some downward growth of bimaxilla. The gonial angle looks suboptimal too. But its nowhere near "over" tier.

I wish I had such forward growth as Barett or girl on my avi... Maybe MSE+FM will be legit, who knows.

 

[Deleted member 5061]

I wish I had such forward growth as Barett or girl on my avi... Maybe MSE+FM will be legit, who knows.

Yeah she looks like Barrett's sister ngl. God tier forward growth.

 

[SixCRY]

Yeah, I know. Nobody said that It will be fast. Also I don't have terribly recessions. I would need theoretically like 5mm.View attachment 490459
Only genio/chin wing would help me very much, but I really need way above average forward growth- for singing, better sport results, more confidence. Seriously.

get bimax srsly, u will clearly ascend hard and have optimal jawline

 

[reptiles]

Some people here think that facepulling, non surgical way to fix are cope and the only way is surgery. Typical jaw surgery only fix alveoral ringe and lenght of mandible body. This won't fix many damages which are caused by downward growth- long nose(midface), negative orbital vector, low cheekbones, shit ramus, gonial angle, antegonial notch and many others. Just look at this gif
View attachment 490341
Jaw surgery only affect small part of lower third. Only ccw rotation which can be done during surgery is LeFort 1 area. You can't get Lefort 2 or 3 with counterclockwise rotation.
People are trying to find non surgical ways to fix downward growth not because they are afraid of surgery but because it doesn't fix really important damages like long nose etc.
So people have rights to put MSE with facepulling above jaw surgery. Because it potencially fix everything. Yes, potencially-thats why I hope some users here will get that stuff and will show non surgical> surgical. Forget to say LeFort probably will turn you blind and your nerves will be damaged.
At the end some interesting article

Case Analysis: Recessed Versus Forward Faces - My Posture and Orthodontics Blog

Looking at this picture it’s not really hard to tell the extent of growth on both faces. Most people would correctly identify the left face as recessed and the right one as forward, but how exactly is such difference determined? For many, the lower jawline is the giveaway. While this is...

www.aljabri.com

Good thread bimax on its own wont fix everything we need more tbqh.


Along side bimax you need orbital decompression orbital rim implants if your maxilla is giga reccessed a lefort 3 ideally the ccw of the jaw alone will give the illusion of a rotated maxilla

 

[Peroxide]

Can someone post good thread about face pulling?

 

[Deleted member 5385]

Good thread bimax on its own wont fix everything we need more tbqh.


Along side bimax you need orbital decompression orbital rim implants if your maxilla is giga reccessed a lefort 3 ideally the ccw of the jaw alone will give the illusion of a rotated maxilla

If there was something to change cranial base. I hope maxilla protraction would fix cranial angle

 

[sandcelmuttcel]

show me evidence facepulling works retarded idiot. on par with sub saharan africans in iq department ngl