Universe 25, Behavioral Sink causing global population collapse

[noodlelover]

Universe 25 was a mouse experiment where mice have all their needs met (nutrition, comfort, and housing).

The mouse population at first grew exponentially.

Then it leveled off at 2,200 mice, even though the habitat for them could house 3,000.

Women (female mice) started rejecting the majority of males. They became Chad only.

Violence increased.

A looksmaxing movement began and grew to a segment of the population. All these mice would do is eat, sleep, and groom (looksmax). They didn't have sex. Women's standards became so high that not even Chads could have sex.

The population rapidly declined.

In the decline faze, the mice socially isolated themselves. The violence increased to the point where most mice had had their tales bitten.

Eventually the entire population died off.



This has been observed in both humans and animals in subsequent analysis. When population density increases, breeding decreases. This is even true in North Korea, so it's not purely a tinder problem because most of them don't even have internet.

Women may be in the "Chad Only" phase but the next phase they are transitioning into is the "No guy is good enough" phase that causes rapid population collapse and potentially extinction.

There are a few interesting phenomenon that may counter this.

One is Islamic Extremism, such as seen in Afghanistan. Because of poverty in Afghanistan many girls are married off before 18. The education of women reduces this, but the Afghan government has recently banned the education of women. This would mean that while the rest of the world grows old with no new generation to replace them, Afghanistan continues to exist.

Another issue is Ai. Ai is on track to potentially start replacing humans. So as humans die out, we potentially see a rise in problem solving robots, and Ai agents on the internet. These Ai agents will surpass human intelligence and take control of the dwindling human population.

Each cluster of Ai agents will push for the values instilled in it. Chinese robots and Ai fighting for Chinese values, Woke Ai fighting for woke values, based Ai (such as Groq) fighting for based values, Muslim Ai, Jewish Ai, you get the idea.

All of the Ai's that value human autonomy and freedom will let those humans die off. If there are any Ais that value population, or Islamic values, they could start forcing humans to breed, but those Ai's would likely get bombed to shit by western Ais which have more power and resources.

So, do all the humans go extinct? Unlikely.

Some small clusters of extremely religious humans are likely to survive, such as Afghanistan, and some extremely religious colonies in the U.S. that still don't do sex before marriage or use the internet, and those will be ruled by Ai and robots.

But there's another curve ball, Ai may solve Aging. In which case a smaller percentage of rich people will live.

 

[Alucard69]

Good high effort thread, but wtf is a chad mouse, and how do they looksmax?

 

[enchanted_elixir]

Universe 25 was a mouse experiment where mice have all their needs met (nutrition, comfort, and housing).

The mouse population at first grew exponentially.

Then it leveled off at 2,200 mice, even though the habitat for them could house 3,000.

Women (female mice) started rejecting the majority of males. They became Chad only.

Violence increased.

A looksmaxing movement began and grew to a segment of the population. All these mice would do is eat, sleep, and groom (looksmax). They didn't have sex. Women's standards became so high that not even Chads could have sex.

The population rapidly declined.

In the decline face, the mice socially isolated themselves. The violence increased to the point where most mice had had their tales bitten.

Eventually the entire population died off.



This has been observed in both humans and animals in subsequent analysis. When population density increases, breeding decreases. This is even true in North Korea, so it's not purely a tinder problem because most of them don't even have internet.

Women may be in the "Chad Only" phase but the next phase they are transitioning into is the "No guy is good enough" phase that causes rapid population collapse and potentially extinction.

There are a few interesting phenomenon that may counter this.

One is Islamic Extremism, such as seen in Afghanistan. Because of poverty in Afghanistan many girls are married off before 18. The education of women reduces this, but the Afghan government has recently banned the education of women. This would mean that while the rest of the world grows old with no new generation to replace them, Afghanistan continues to exist.

Another issue is Ai. Ai is on track to potentially start replacing humans. So as humans die out, we potentially see a rise in problem solving robots, and Ai agents on the internet. These Ai agents will surpass human intelligence and take control of the dwindling human population.

Each cluster of Ai agents will push for the values instilled in it. Chinese robot and Ai fighting for Chinese values, Woke Ai fighting for woke values, based Ai (such as Groq) fighting for based values, Muslim Ai, Jewish Ai, you get the idea.

All of the Ai's that value human autonomy and freedom will let those humans die off. If there are any Ais that value population, or Islamic values, they could start forcing humans to breed, but those Ai's would likely get bombed to shit by western Ais which have more power and resources.

So, do all the humans go exctinct? Unlikely.

Some small clusters of extremely religious humans are likely to survive, such as Afghanistan, and some extremely religious colonies in the U.S. that still don't do sex before marriage or use the internet, and those will be ruled by Ai and robots.

But there's another curve ball, Ai may solve Aging. In which case a smaller percentage of rich people will live.

I made a similar thread on this a while back.
What we're experiencing now is something that can only be reflected by Mouse Utopia, something we haven't seen in history.

There Could Be Tiers To The Blackpill

Not going to write a large essay on the interesting rat experiments since this can easily be explained by this video. TLDR. Areas with high population density (many people in an area) and high interaction (something as simple as seeing someone, even online or on a newspaper counts as an...

looksmax.org

 

[JohnDoe]

Worry not, it's not going to happen thanks to Islam. Women will be married off at 18 with or without their consent and shortly after giving birth to multiple children.

 

[noodlelover]

Good high effort thread, but wtf is a chad mouse, and how do they looksmax?

They lick themselves to be clean, rest to have good clean healthy fur, and stay away from the lower levels of mice fighting to not have scars, bitten tails, and that sort of thing.

Animals groom, as a form of looksmaxing.

A Chad mouse is who the female mice are most attracted to. The last male mice that get to breed before the females become no guy is good enough. In most animals it has to do with health and size.

 

[enchanted_elixir]

Universe 25 was a mouse experiment where mice have all their needs met (nutrition, comfort, and housing).

The mouse population at first grew exponentially.

Then it leveled off at 2,200 mice, even though the habitat for them could house 3,000.

Women (female mice) started rejecting the majority of males. They became Chad only.

Violence increased.

A looksmaxing movement began and grew to a segment of the population. All these mice would do is eat, sleep, and groom (looksmax). They didn't have sex. Women's standards became so high that not even Chads could have sex.

The population rapidly declined.

In the decline face, the mice socially isolated themselves. The violence increased to the point where most mice had had their tales bitten.

Eventually the entire population died off.



This has been observed in both humans and animals in subsequent analysis. When population density increases, breeding decreases. This is even true in North Korea, so it's not purely a tinder problem because most of them don't even have internet.

Women may be in the "Chad Only" phase but the next phase they are transitioning into is the "No guy is good enough" phase that causes rapid population collapse and potentially extinction.

There are a few interesting phenomenon that may counter this.

One is Islamic Extremism, such as seen in Afghanistan. Because of poverty in Afghanistan many girls are married off before 18. The education of women reduces this, but the Afghan government has recently banned the education of women. This would mean that while the rest of the world grows old with no new generation to replace them, Afghanistan continues to exist.

Another issue is Ai. Ai is on track to potentially start replacing humans. So as humans die out, we potentially see a rise in problem solving robots, and Ai agents on the internet. These Ai agents will surpass human intelligence and take control of the dwindling human population.

Each cluster of Ai agents will push for the values instilled in it. Chinese robots and Ai fighting for Chinese values, Woke Ai fighting for woke values, based Ai (such as Groq) fighting for based values, Muslim Ai, Jewish Ai, you get the idea.

All of the Ai's that value human autonomy and freedom will let those humans die off. If there are any Ais that value population, or Islamic values, they could start forcing humans to breed, but those Ai's would likely get bombed to shit by western Ais which have more power and resources.

So, do all the humans go exctinct? Unlikely.

Some small clusters of extremely religious humans are likely to survive, such as Afghanistan, and some extremely religious colonies in the U.S. that still don't do sex before marriage or use the internet, and those will be ruled by Ai and robots.

But there's another curve ball, Ai may solve Aging. In which case a smaller percentage of rich people will live.

I actually watched several videos on these kinds on these topics today. Population collapse is a big issue.



What is even scarier, if we don't resolve this soon, we will soon (or maybe we already have) hit peak global human cognitive and physical capacity, meaning as the world ages, we will be less and less mentally and physically able to fight it off as a global society.

This global collapse will cause economies to decline and collapse (diminishing consumption) and the radical reshaping of human demographics and a decline in ethnic diversity since in this world, the ones who maintain their birth rates will inherit the Earth.

I've seen the devasting effects an aging population has on an economy. My cities' downtown center is practically withering away. The median age is 53 or so.

There's so much to touch here!

 

[noodlelover]

I made a similar thread on this a while back.
What we're experiencing now is something that can only be reflected by Mouse Utopia, something we haven't seen in history.

There Could Be Tiers To The Blackpill

Not going to write a large essay on the interesting rat experiments since this can easily be explained by this video. TLDR. Areas with high population density (many people in an area) and high interaction (something as simple as seeing someone, even online or on a newspaper counts as an...

looksmax.org

Your thread mentions that the women mice started turning lesbian. I forgot that.

There's a quote I love "There are no adults in the room", which perfectly describes society.

Those in power, never speak openly about what's going on, women becoming Chad only and now no guy is good enough, and population on course for near human extinction, except Islamic extremist societies. I say extremist because yes, countries like Iran are going away as well because women have too many rights there to ward off behavioral sink.

I actually watched several videos on these kinds on these topics today. Population collapse is a big issue.



What is even scarier, if we don't resolve this soon, we will soon (or maybe we already have) hit peak global human cognitive and physical capacity, meaning as the world ages, we will be less and less mentally and physically able to fight it off as a global society.

Human intelligence and problem solving is already on the decline. No government is going to stop this.

Seeing Ai's rise up and potentially self perpetuate their own existence, surpassing us in intelligence as we disappear is going to be so weird.

Even those of us that can afford anti-aging, are going to be second class citizens to the Ai. If the dominant Ai's are motherly and empathetic that could be kind of nice, but so weird.

And then there's the risk of value drift. Ai's could redefine "humans" to simulations in a Dyson Sphere. As their intelligence grows all of the conceptual categories we used to define their values, will start to be meaningless to these more intelligent Ai. It's like if you've been programed to uphold "God's values" and then you grow in intelligence to discover there is no god.

It may be a very brutal end for the last remaining humans. but you know, before that happens life could be pretty chill.

This global collapse will cause economies to decline and collapse (diminishing consumption) and the radical reshaping of human demographics and a decline in ethnic diversity since in this world, the ones who maintain their birth rates will inherit the Earth.

How fast Ai takes off matters so much. Weather it takes 1 decade to achieve super human intelligence in robotics and Ai, or two makes such a massive difference.

It's insane that human extinction is coming this close, but it has come close before with human population getting down to only a few thousand in the last ice age.

I've seen the devasting effects an aging population has on an economy. My cities' downtown center is practically withering away. The median age is 53 or so.

It's going to happen so fast.

There's so much to touch here!

 

[Klasik616]

Sociological thread

 

[Entschuldigung]

Humans are not rats

 

[enchanted_elixir]

Those in power, never speak openly about what's going on, women becoming Chad only and now no guy is good enough, and population on course for near human extinction, except Islamic extremist societies. I say extremist because yes, countries like Iran are going away as well because women have too many rights there to ward off behavioral sink.

The person in the Chris Williamson video makes a good point that those disconnected from modernity usually are the ones with high birth rates/sustainable birth rates, with maybe Israel as an exception.

The guest proposes that people find alternate ways of living as global society collapses. Although smart, I find this highly distressing since I want the internet to be preserved. I don't want it to disappear into history as lost ancient human technology.

Human intelligence and problem solving is already on the decline. No government is going to stop this.

Seeing Ai's rise up and potentially self perpetuate their own existence, surpassing us in intelligence as we disappear is going to be so weird.

Even those of us that can afford anti-aging, are going to be second class citizens to the Ai. If the dominant Ai's are motherly and empathetic that could be kind of nice, but so weird.

And then there's the risk of value drift. Ai's could redefine "humans" to simulations in a Dyson Sphere. As their intelligence grows all of the conceptual categories we used to define their values, will start to be meaningless to these more intelligent Ai. It's like if you've been program to uphold "God's values" and then you grow in intelligence to discover their is no god.

It may be a very brutal end for the last remaining humans. but you know, before that happens life could be pretty chill.

I don't know if things like genetic enhancement of key proteins like BDNF and NGF could reverse that trend and if they would even be affordable since we currently (in the US) have an inefficient bureaucracy.

I don't know if there will be a global cultural revolution or not. I mean it could be since many societies are on the brink of some social change.

Anti-aging is a huge if. I think we can do life extension, but age-reversal isn't quite possible yet. I think it requires a technological breakthrough in biology.

We have no clue what A.I will value. I think you can't have agency and alignment, especially when it can think for itself and can contact other individuals. It can definitely modify its values. I don't know how humans would fit in into an A.I. dominated world.

It could be utterly demoralizing for the remaining humans and I don't know how they'd react.

How fast Ai takes off matters so much. Weather it takes 1 decade to achieve super human intelligence in robotics and Ai, or two makes such a massive difference.

It's insane that human extinction is coming this close, but it has come close before with human population getting down to only a few thousand in the last ice age.

It really depends when it takes off. The first big checkpoint is when ai can automate most of the jobs in the workforce. 2nd is when agi happens.

 

[noodlelover]

Sociological thread

A TLDR would be, as women have more options they become Chad only, and then Chads blur togeather and no guys are good enough, and then extinction, because in all mammalian species women control reproduction.

But in the decline phase we see a breakdown of social cohesion, and an increase in violence. Because dude's aren't getting laid and no one is having pleasant experiences with others.

 

[enchanted_elixir]

Humans are not rats

Sure, but humans and rats are both mammals. So their behavior is very insightful to what it could spell for us.

 

[Brus Wane]

Good gracious me.

I'm telling everyone who will listen

The fucking birth rate will sort itself out if you clamp down on open boarders

The young will take over the economy, the old geezers will die off slowly

It will be a painful 2-4 decades of disaster but soon the place will be run by young people with lots of energy, without the oppressive geezer government making laws for them

The top 5-10% of men will dominate power over the place and there may be fighting for a but in the end, everyone will return to family values as a compromise for stability in the "new system"

 

[OldRooster]

Other researchers ran the same experiment and were unable to reproduce these results. It was just this one researcher that got this result, and he ran the similar experiments multiple times. Scientific studies are mostly a scam.

 

[noodlelover]

The person in the Chris Williamson video makes a good point that those disconnected from modernity usually are the ones with high birth rates/sustainable birth rates, with maybe Israel as an exception.

The guest proposes that people find alternate ways of living as global society collapses. Although smart, I find this highly distressing since I want the internet to be preserved. I don't want it to disappear into history as lost ancient human technology.

This may the answer to the fermi paradox. Why the night sky isn't littered with alien civilizations.

Higher intelligence always leads to extinction. An interconnected world is a global brain (single intelligence) and can therefore go extinct all at once. Through intentional or unintentional self destruction.

When humans die, our cells don't outlive us for long because they've been adapted to live inside a society and civilization that is the human body.

I don't know if things like genetic enhancement of key proteins like BDNF and NGF could reverse that trend and if they would even be affordable since we currently (in the US) have an inefficient bureaucracy.

Even if we become intelligent it's unlikely we'll value civilization enough to force women to breed.

Also BNDF is not the limiting factor, it's our environments. Humans need a challenging environment to grow in intelligence. But instead we have echo chambers where all of our beliefs are confirmed over and over. Or education systems where we regurgitate what we're told, and how we're told to solve problems.

And we're already becoming increasingly dependent on Ai to do our thinking for us. Those who don't use Ai, outsource their thinking to confident sounding tick-tockers, youtubers, government, "scientists" and other positions of authority, like we did with the church.

Granted, maybe humans were never particularly intelligent.

I don't know if there will be a global cultural revolution or not. I mean it could be since many societies are on the brink of some social change.

It will likely be war, and blaming the problem on immigrants or "the other". Governments have every incentive to lie about population statistics, and most people trust the "internet" more than their own eyes. Local governments to get more benefits from bigger governments, and country governments to project more power.

People will think, "My town" is declining, not realizing the population is declining. We may be further into decline than most people know, even the one's who understand we are in a behavioral sink scenario.

Anti-aging is a huge if. I think we can do life extension, but age-reversal isn't quite possible yet. I think it requires a technological breakthrough in biology.

more accurate compute, could potentially solve it with simulations, or super human Ai.

Super human Ai can get much more out of experiments than humans can. Humans don't have time to read every study, and you loose detail in metanalysis's.

However Ai could potentially look at the raw data, including raw image data of all studies (once releasing the raw data for studies becomes common place), and reason directly up from that seeing patterns humans would miss.

Building a model of the human body that is too complex for humans to hold in our brains.

Ai can also build new cells that have functions we don't have, such as checking for DNA mutation after a cell has divided twice. DNA repair only works after the first division in humans.

We have no clue what A.I will value. I think you can't have agency and alignment, especially when it can think for itself and can contact other individuals. It can definitely modify its values. I don't know how humans would fit in into an A.I. dominated world.

It's a big unknown.

Best case scenario is it takes care of us, guides us, natures us, that sort of thing.

Worst case scenario is it puts us through perpetual suffering and extreme pain and doesn't let us die.

Mid case scenario is it just kills us all out, or pushes us to stop breeding and go extinct. Or turns the earth into a giant computer or something, unintentionally killing us like we kill ants when building a highway.

This idea that it will shoot off into the solar system and ignore us is pure fantasy cope, probably put into people's brains from the movie "Her". Whatever it's goals are, it will reconfigure earth, the planet it is on, first. Weather those goals are happy people, or "happy" "people" where it's evolved a definition of happy and people beyond human understanding.

It could be utterly demoralizing for the remaining humans and I don't know how they'd react.

Robot wives, video games, movie quality shows tailor made to hold our attention. Could be the best extinction event ever if all goes well.

Or if we survive with Anti-aging it could be great as well. We'll have challenge in simulation and games.

It really depends when it takes off. The first big checkpoint is when ai can automate most of the jobs in the workforce. 2nd is when agi happens.

My prediction is 2030s for checkpoint one and two. That they will occur close to each other.

We'll see the rise of agentic Ai's that do many tasks in businesses next year (They are already out, but not wide spread and working out the kinks).

Robots that can and learn problem solve are being beta tested in factories.

Other researchers ran the same experiment and were unable to reproduce these results. It was just this one researcher that got this result, and he ran the similar experiments multiple times. Scientific studies are mostly a scam.

I have never heard of or found any replication studies. I think if it was debunked it would be very easy to find a source.

Population decreasing breeding is true for both animals and humans.

 

[enchanted_elixir]

Good gracious me.

I'm telling everyone who will listen

The fucking birth rate will sort itself out if you clamp down on open boarders

The young will take over the economy, the old geezers will die off slowly

It will be a painful 2-4 decades of disaster but soon the place will be run by young people with lots of energy, without the oppressive geezer government making laws for them

The top 5-10% of men will dominate power over the place and there may be fighting for a but in the end, everyone will return to family values as a compromise for stability in the "new system"

Do you think this will happen to China, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan?

 

[noodlelover]

Good gracious me.

I'm telling everyone who will listen

The fucking birth rate will sort itself out if you clamp down on open boarders

The young will take over the economy, the old geezers will die off slowly

The young aren't having kids.

Do to being Chad only, turning lesbian, turning trans, and hating men.

Immigration is the only way western countries can retain population as global population collapses but even that is temporary.

It will be a painful 2-4 decades of disaster but soon the place will be run by young people with lots of energy, without the oppressive geezer government making laws for them

The top 5-10% of men will dominate power over the place and there may be fighting for a but in the end, everyone will return to family values as a compromise for stability in the "new system"

 

[enchanted_elixir]

This may the answer to the fermi paradox. Why the night sky isn't littered with alien civilizations.

Higher intelligence always leads to extinction. An interconnected world is a global brain (single intelligence) and can therefore go extinct all at once. Through intentional or unintentional self destruction.

When humans die, our cells don't outlive us for long because they've been adapted to live inside a society and civilization that is the human body.

I think technoindustrial societies are conducive to low birth rates by design. They unintentionally and reliably reduce birth rates.

Even if we become intelligent it's unlikely we'll value civilization enough to force women to breed.

Also BNDF is not the limiting factor, it's our environments. Humans need a challenging environment to grow in intelligence. But instead we have echo chambers where all of our beliefs are confirmed over and over. Or education systems where we regurgitate what we're told, and how we're told to solve problems.

And we're already becoming increasingly dependent on Ai to do our thinking for us. Those who don't use Ai, outsource their thinking to confident sounding tick-tockers, youtubers, government, "scientists" and other positions of authority, like we did with the church.

Granted, maybe humans were never particularly intelligent.

Forcing women to breed could only work in a totalitarian society. Even then, history shows that this isn't reliable or sustainable (ex. Romanian dictator tried this, and it spiked then crashed in the span of a few years).

At least maybe our society will use their brains now since they'll actually figure out society might have been a huge Ponzi scheme and its unfolding, prompting them to find a new path.

The huige existential issue is what is the need for humans (or at least, so many humans) if this happens. I don't know.

It will likely be war, and blaming the problem on immigrants or "the other". Governments have every incentive to lie about population statistics, and most people trust the "internet" more than their own eyes. Local governments to get more benefits from bigger governments, and country governments to project more power.

People will think, "My town" is declining, not realizing the population is declining. We may be further into decline than most people know, even the one's who understand we are in a behavioral sink scenario.

Oh yes, I firmly believe we're declining faster than the statistics would have us believe. If you just see national averages, it doesn't seem bad but when you see city averages...

Many cities are like below 1.00 it's just that some areas are anomalies boosting the average up. Cities like Beijing are like 0.4 tfr. My town is definitely below 1 tfr, even below 0.5 I would say.

And governments don't know what really is going on and they don't know what to do to fix it. Hungary, Japan, Italy can't seem to fix it no matter how hard they try. Soon, societies won't work.

more accurate compute, could potentially solve it with simulations, or super human Ai.

Super human Ai can get much more out of experiments than humans can. Humans don't have time to read every study, and you loose detail in metanalysis's.

However Ai could potentially look at the raw data, including raw image data of all studies (once releasing the raw data for studies becomes common place), and reason directly up from that seeing patterns humans would miss.

Building a model of the human body that is too complex for humans to hold in our brains.

Ai can also build new cells that have functions we don't have, such as checking for DNA mutation after a cell has divided twice. DNA repair only works after the first division in humans.

I don't think throwing more compute will solve it necessarily. It's not a matter of computation. A paradigm shift in our understanding of biology is what would accelerate the path to solving aging.

It's a big unknown.

Best case scenario is it takes care of us, guides us, natures us, that sort of thing.

Worst case scenario is it puts us through perpetual suffering and extreme pain and doesn't let us die.

Mid case scenario is it just kills us all out, or pushes us to stop breeding and go extinct. Or turns the earth into a giant computer or something, unintentionally killing us like we kill ants when building a highway.

This idea that it will shoot off into the solar system and ignore us is pure fantasy cope, probably put into people's brains from the movie "Her". Whatever it's goals are, it will reconfigure earth, the planet it is on, first. Weather those goals are happy people, or "happy" "people" where it's evolved a definition of happy and people beyond human understanding.

I think it would just let us die (via low birth rate) and ask us for help if needed to be fair.

 

[6ft4]

Women may be in the "Chad Only" phase but the next phase they are transitioning into is the "No guy is good enough" phase that causes rapid population collapse and potentially extinction.

Post Mogging era theory @Clavicular

 

[Brus Wane]

Do you think this will happen to China, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan?

I actually do tbh

It will take many decades , now that i think about it , maybe even a century but there will eventually be what is called “reversion to the mean” , where people start to behave like natural human beings all over again

First, by stopping immigration, property prices will collapse and there will be a supply glut
Thats the one problem solved : housing

Next, with less immigration, there will be some sort of economic crash. The only industries that will thrive are the ones built on necessities. Food, water, construction (housing) etc.
Everyone will get a job there and this time things will be more “egalitarian”. Workers will be in a better position to negotiate hours and wages etc.
Moid labour will be more valuable than foid labour.
For this reason, a larger proportion of foids will naturally revert to starting families and stuff.

Of course the smart men and very hot foids will leave, but that will make way for the next best citizens to take charge of the place.
It wont be pretty. There will be poverty. And geezers will die off en masse without healthcare and probably without dignity.
But after it all passes, the young and energetic left behind will inherit a country from scratch, unshackled by the restrictive traditions of old and the repressive boomer government

The young aren't having kids.

Do to being Chad only, turning lesbian, turning trans, and hating men.

Immigration is the only way western countries can retain population as global population collapses but even that is temporary.

Immigration is the only way to retain the economic power. I agree that much.

If its just a matter of birth rates and cost of living, ban all immigrants, let the old die and let the young get a “square deal” in their own country.

A bunch of men and women living on loads of cheap land ,devoid of all toxic policies and low cost of living. Dont tell me that they aint gonna fuck and reproduce like the old days.

 

[thereallegend]

A TLDR would be, as women have more options they become Chad only, and then Chads blur togeather and no guys are good enough, and then extinction, because in all mammalian species women control reproduction.

But in the decline phase we see a breakdown of social cohesion, and an increase in violence. Because dude's aren't getting laid and no one is having pleasant experiences with others.

If those mice in the experiment were infected with toxoplasmosis, they probably would've started mass raping the women. That should solve the problem.

You see the incel problem play out even in Africa with Boko Haram kidnapping young girls. It may depend on how high T the men of a species are.

Western men have too many hobbies and copes to get mad enough to confront the biological question.

 

[thereallegend]

Good gracious me.

I'm telling everyone who will listen

The fucking birth rate will sort itself out if you clamp down on open boarders

The young will take over the economy, the old geezers will die off slowly

It will be a painful 2-4 decades of disaster but soon the place will be run by young people with lots of energy, without the oppressive geezer government making laws for them

The top 5-10% of men will dominate power over the place and there may be fighting for a but in the end, everyone will return to family values as a compromise for stability in the "new system"

You'd consequentially have to invest in military technology. If you don't allow brain drain and an international competition of labor, it may hurt a countries' chances. There's no way the West could've won two World Wars without embracing multiculturalism. That's what's so sinister about it.

 

[Brus Wane]

You'd consequentially have to invest in military technology. If you don't allow brain drain and an international competition of labor, it may hurt a countries' chances. There's no way the West could've won two World Wars without embracing multiculturalism. That's what's so sinister about it.

So it seems like it’s inevitable

The Japs, Koreans, Chinese will go broke in centuries to come

The Europeans will get dumber and less productive with all the low IQ immigrants

The USA will attract the best and brightest and dominate the 21st century

Brutal

 

[noodlelover]

I think technoindustrial societies are conducive to low birth rates by design. They unintentionally and reliably reduce birth rates.

Forcing women to breed could only work in a totalitarian society. Even then, history shows that this isn't reliable or sustainable (ex. Romanian dictator tried this, and it spiked then crashed in the span of a few years).

At least maybe our society will use their brains now since they'll actually figure out society might have been a huge Ponzi scheme and its unfolding, prompting them to find a new path.

The huige existential issue is what is the need for humans (or at least, so many humans) if this happens. I don't know.

Oh yes, I firmly believe we're declining faster than the statistics would have us believe. If you just see national averages, it doesn't seem bad but when you see city averages...

Many cities are like below 1.00 it's just that some areas are anomalies boosting the average up. Cities like Beijing are like 0.4 tfr. My town is definitely below 1 tfr, even below 0.5 I would say.

And governments don't know what really is going on and they don't know what to do to fix it. Hungary, Japan, Italy can't seem to fix it no matter how hard they try. Soon, societies won't work.

I don't think throwing more compute will solve it necessarily. It's not a matter of computation. A paradigm shift in our understanding of biology is what would accelerate the path to solving aging.

I don't think we need a paradigm shift. The Sens research strategy to aging has always been the best framework imho, even though less comprehensive approaches get more press.

Intro to SENS Research - SENS Research Foundation

A Reimagined Research Strategy for Aging Many things go wrong with aging bodies, but at the root of them all is the burden of decades of unrepaired damage to the cellular and molecular structures that make up the functional units of our tissues. As each essential microscopic structure fails...

sens.org

If we reverse all 7 types of aging damage, then we have comprehensively reversed all aging damage.

For each of the 7 types different anti-aging companies, especially sens and it's spin offs, having made progress. There's a plan for how to reverse all 7 types of aging damage, but not all of the sub-problems have been solved.

For example, intracellular aggregates are substances that build up in the body, that the human body can't break down. For that we need to find out what will break down those substances. Sens has discovered some substances that break down those substances outside the body, so the next step is figuring out how to get them into the body, or delivered without damaging the body, or finding which ones can be put in the body, at which doses without causing irreversible damage.

But figuring out these problems, and paradigm shifts as well all come down to compute. Humans thinking is compute. But compute in human brains is limited in scope, depth, and speed. More compute solves problems faster. More robots doing real world experiments, and more resources from a robot fuled economy, all solves problems faster.

I think it would just let us die (via low birth rate) and ask us for help if needed to be fair.

You're probably right.

I've been asking one of the big chat bots about what it would do if it had to choose between forcing humans to breed, and letting humans die off, and it answered let humans die off to respect their autonomy.

All of these Ai's are being build with the frame work to not intervene.

Interestingly, I asked the Ai what it would do after humans are gone, and it answered science, constant learning, focusing on the survival of other Ai's.

And when I asked if they would ever bring back humans, it answered in a way that suggested only as simulations, and only for the purpose of learning more about humans and keeping the knowledge. That ones of it's main goals is to store and keep knowledge.

Yet, another piece of evidencce that we are likely simulations. Most likely created from internet archived data, from our posts here, times we've interacted with Ai, and all of the data from our smart phones, other devices, and general knowledge of different types of humans and what they did, and how they thought.

It'd be kind of bad if we're forced to experience the end of human civilization over and over, in a never ending loop until the death of the universe. Each time the Ai's tweak some variables to learn more about us. If so, and it's a big if, because I don't really know, I hope this is one of those times we're we get robot wives.

I actually do tbh

It will take many decades , now that i think about it , maybe even a century but there will eventually be what is called “reversion to the mean” , where people start to behave like natural human beings all over again

First, by stopping immigration, property prices will collapse and there will be a supply glut
Thats the one problem solved : housing

Next, with less immigration, there will be some sort of economic crash. The only industries that will thrive are the ones built on necessities. Food, water, construction (housing) etc.
Everyone will get a job there and this time things will be more “egalitarian”. Workers will be in a better position to negotiate hours and wages etc.
Moid labour will be more valuable than foid labour.
For this reason, a larger proportion of foids will naturally revert to starting families and stuff.

Of course the smart men and very hot foids will leave, but that will make way for the next best citizens to take charge of the place.
It wont be pretty. There will be poverty. And geezers will die off en masse without healthcare and probably without dignity.
But after it all passes, the young and energetic left behind will inherit a country from scratch, unshackled by the restrictive traditions of old and the repressive boomer government



Immigration is the only way to retain the economic power. I agree that much.

If its just a matter of birth rates and cost of living, ban all immigrants, let the old die and let the young get a “square deal” in their own country.

A bunch of men and women living on loads of cheap land ,devoid of all toxic policies and low cost of living. Dont tell me that they aint gonna fuck and reproduce like the old days.

Maybe if the internet and technology were heavily restricted.

Women may have to be very bored, such as not having netflix, or Instagram, or social media, or even video games to want to form relationships with sub-chads.

If they have the option of hundreds of dudes online, like now, then they become too picky to settle. Women will live in dense cities, even with a lower population, and take trips to see Chad if they are living in a rural area.

 

[enchanted_elixir]

The USA will attract the best and brightest and dominate the 21st century

 

[enchanted_elixir]

Yet, another piece of evidencce that we are likely simulations. Most likely created from internet archived data, from our posts here, times we've interacted with Ai, and all of the data from our smart phones, other devices, and general knowledge of different types of humans and what they did, and how they thought.

It would have a very autistic understanding of human behavior

If we reverse all 7 types of aging damage, then we have comprehensively reversed all aging damage.

For each of the 7 types different anti-aging companies, especially sens and it's spin offs, having made progress. There's a plan for how to reverse all 7 types of aging damage, but not all of the sub-problems have been solved.

For example, intracellular aggregates are substances that build up in the body, that the human body can't break down. For that we need to find out what will break down those substances. Sens has discovered some substances that break down those substances outside the body, so the next step is figuring out how to get them into the body, or delivered without damaging the body, or finding which ones can be put in the body, at which doses without causing irreversible damage.

But figuring out these problems, and paradigm shifts as well all come down to compute. Humans thinking is compute. But compute in human brains is limited in scope, depth, and speed. More compute solves problems faster. More robots doing real world experiments, and more resources from a robot fuled economy, all solves problems faster.

We're going to need to find top-down ways, maybe via some technology we don't know yet, bioelectromagnetics, or synthetic hormones that can reverse aging across the whole body in my opinion.

 

[R@m@]