Why gymcels age like shit. mTOR vs AMPK

[PsychoDsk]

Constantly elevated mTOR signalling with a near deactivated ampk pathway

I believe @androgenic touched on this topic.

Basically when u spike igf-1, put your budy under mechanical tension, perform heavy activity, you’re living in a constant state of upregulated mTOR activity. Which in turn downregulates ur longevity genes and anti-aging genes (like ampk, SIRT1 and foxo)

Ideally you’d want to find an equilibrium between the activations of these 2 genomes.

For example
4 training days, heavy carb loads to spike igf-1 (possibly with an GHRP-6)
3 rest days, sauna, 12h fast, light meals before and after fast to activate AMPK gene and downregulate mTORC1.
Compounds for rest days :
Resveratrol, MB, metformin, berberine, anti-oxidants)

On training days ur body is optimized completely to opt for BUILDING, while on rest days u’d be optimized to REPAIR (in the form of collagen, elastin, cellular health, insulin sensitivity, mitochondrial health)

Does anyone have any more thoughts on this subject?

Yesterday was my first time reading up on it. I’m always willing to discover more to it

@Clavicular

 

[Copercel]

Dnr your body adapts to this over time

 

[PsychoDsk]

Dnr your body adapts to this over time

Does it really tho?
Any studies on it?

Why not just activate both genes

 

[Copercel]

Why not just activate both genes

It’s impossible to activate BOTH of them efficiently I think

 

[childishkillah]

Interesting point of view

 

[Daddy's Home]

Just don't get outside and put any effort în anything, so as not to stress the body and allow external factors to damage it, as kings did in the past, sitting all day in castles surrounded by harems of stacys, theory..

Actively going to a place where you lift things is like mimicking the life of slaves in the past, who aged like shit and died early, while the King family members sat locked up in palaces reading / being entertained by jesters / discussing intellectual matters related to what else to make the slaves do

 

[HtnGymcel]

Constantly elevated mTOR signalling with a near deactivated ampk pathway

I believe @androgenic touched on this topic.

Basically when u spike igf-1, put your budy under mechanical tension, perform heavy activity, you’re living in a constant state of upregulated mTOR activity. Which in turn downregulates ur longevity genes and anti-aging genes (like ampk, SIRT1 and foxo)

Ideally you’d want to find an equilibrium between the activations of these 2 genomes.

For example
4 training days, heavy carb loads to spike igf-1 (possibly with an GHRP-6)
3 rest days, sauna, 12h fast, light meals before and after fast to activate AMPK gene and downregulate mTORC1.
Compounds for rest days :
Resveratrol, MB, metformin, berberine, anti-oxidants)

On training days ur body is optimized completely to opt for BUILDING, while on rest days u’d be optimized to REPAIR (in the form of collagen, elastin, cellular health, insulin sensitivity, mitochondrial health)

Does anyone have any more thoughts on this subject?

Yesterday was my first time reading up on it. I’m always willing to discover more to it

@Clavicular

Gymcelling is peak

 

[Copercel]

Just don't get outside and put any effort în anything, so as not to stress the body and allow external factors to damage it, as kings did in the past, sitting all day in castles surrounded by harems of stacys, theory..

Actively going to a place where you lift things is like mimicking the life of slaves in the past, who aged like shit and died early, while the King family members sat locked up in palaces reading / being entertained by jesters / discussing intellectual matters related to what else to make the slaves do

Just admit you’re lazy bro

 

[vincentzygo]

Just don't get outside and put any effort în anything, so as not to stress the body and allow external factors to damage it, as kings did in the past, sitting all day in castles surrounded by harems of stacys, theory..

Actively going to a place where you lift things is like mimicking the life of slaves in the past, who aged like shit and died early, while the King family members sat locked up in palaces reading / being entertained by jesters / discussing intellectual matters related to what else to make the slaves do

ure romanian

 

[Crowsmagnon]

just wrong

 

[weepmeep]

It is true that with excessive use of growth factors, receptors become more tolerant, which is why AMPK is inhibited and the aging process accelerates. The orgcels won't get to this point anytime soon

 

[KeepCopingLads]

Constantly elevated mTOR signalling with a near deactivated ampk pathway

I believe @androgenic touched on this topic.

Basically when u spike igf-1, put your budy under mechanical tension, perform heavy activity, you’re living in a constant state of upregulated mTOR activity. Which in turn downregulates ur longevity genes and anti-aging genes (like ampk, SIRT1 and foxo)

Ideally you’d want to find an equilibrium between the activations of these 2 genomes.

For example
4 training days, heavy carb loads to spike igf-1 (possibly with an GHRP-6)
3 rest days, sauna, 12h fast, light meals before and after fast to activate AMPK gene and downregulate mTORC1.
Compounds for rest days :
Resveratrol, MB, metformin, berberine, anti-oxidants)

On training days ur body is optimized completely to opt for BUILDING, while on rest days u’d be optimized to REPAIR (in the form of collagen, elastin, cellular health, insulin sensitivity, mitochondrial health)

Does anyone have any more thoughts on this subject?

Yesterday was my first time reading up on it. I’m always willing to discover more to it

@Clavicular

i wont have to worry about this shit if im natty?

 

[PsychoDsk]

It is true that with excessive use of growth factors, receptors become more tolerant, which is why AMPK is inhibited and the aging process accelerates. The orgcels won't get to this point anytime soon

Is there a way to get both sides of the coin?
Maybe like the training/rest day schedule I typed out in the thread?

 

[weepmeep]

Regarding the idea, the average activation of AMPK makes the receptors more sensitive and your growth does not slow down due to the snowing of IGF

 

[PsychoDsk]

i wont have to worry about this shit if im natty?

You do
Although
Some ppl are genetically blessed with high ampk activation anyway
Enhanced is just worse because mTOR is elevated 24/7

Just enough rest is fine as a natty IMO

 

[PsychoDsk]

Regarding the idea, the average activation of AMPK makes the receptors more sensitive and your growth does not slow down due to the snowing of IGF

Yes, I’ve read this somewhere. Fasting (responsibly) on rest days could actually aid muscle growth from training days due to better nutritional partitioning and insulin sensitivity. Thoughts?

 

[KeepCopingLads]

You do
Although
Some ppl are genetically blessed with high ampk activation anyway
Enhanced is just worse because mTOR is elevated 24/7

Just enough rest is fine as a natty IMO

for sauna, how long do you stay in there and how often cus i havent seen anyone say anything about it here

 

[KeepCopingLads]

Fasting (responsibly) on rest days

purposely starving yourself? instead of getting your nutrients?
listen to yourself

 

[PsychoDsk]

purposely starving yourself? instead of getting your nutrients?
listen to yourself

It’s not starving yourself
When u fast for maybe 12 hours, ur body naturally repairs itself (due to activation of ampk gene) which regulates ur insulin sensitivity, aids in better recomp due to fat loss and it can also help u absorb the nutrients better on training days and partion them to the muscles more efficiently

 

[KeepCopingLads]

When u fast for maybe 12 hours

dont most guys already do this while sleeping

 

[weepmeep]

Yes, I’ve read this somewhere. Fasting (responsibly) on rest days could actually aid muscle growth from training days due to better nutritional partitioning and insulin sensitivity. Thoughts?

I don't think fasting leads to a sustained increase in AMPK. I think it's worth looking more into dietary supplements or medications like metformin. I have experience with long-term metformin use myself at a dose of 1000 mg. I managed to grow 3 cm after 20 years and I don’t have any problems in the gym

 

[PsychoDsk]

for sauna, how long do you stay in there and how often cus i havent seen anyone say anything about it here

I haven’t yet
Just started reading up on these genes yesterday
Supposedly the sauna could downregulate mTOR and upregulate your FOXO and SIRT1 genes by yes you guessed it
Getting rid of free radicals etc etc

Imma start doing 15 mins on rest days, aswell as fasting to see what happens

 

[PsychoDsk]

I don't think fasting leads to a sustained increase in APC. I think it's worth looking more into dietary supplements or medications like metformin. I have experience with long-term metformin use myself at a dose of 1000 mg. I managed to grow 3 cm after 20 years and I don’t have any problems in the gym

@aids

 

[KeepCopingLads]

Imma start doing 15 mins on rest days, aswell as fasting to see what happens

i used to do 15 mins, but i wasnt sure if it was one time or repeated so i may have done it like twice with a 5-20 min break

 

[PsychoDsk]

i used to do 15 mins, but i wasnt sure if it was one time or repeated so i may have done it like twice with a 5-20 min break

If the sauna’s downregulation of mTOR is significant it’d be stupid to go in when your body is in a building state aka after a workout

According to what I’m reading, the sauna would only be good on rest days to repair instead of actually build (muscle)

Interesting

 

[PsychoDsk]

@chadisbeingmade @SlayerJonas

 

[oadboueq1293]

It’s not starving yourself
When u fast for maybe 12 hours, ur body naturally repairs itself (due to activation of ampk gene) which regulates ur insulin sensitivity, aids in better recomp due to fat loss and it can also help u absorb the nutrients better on training days and partion them to the muscles more efficiently

R u good bro your meant to naturally fast in ur sleep

 

[TheTD7]

the core idea that mTOR vs AMPK is a key longevity axis is correct. But I'd argue that the biology is not a simple "train = perma high mTOR/age fast" story. Resistance training and spikes in IGF1/mTOR are acutely pro growth, while intermittent AMPK activation promotes autophagy & repair. The healthy strategy supported by current science is periodization: let mTOR run when u wanna build, then deliberately switch into AMPK/autophagy favoring states to allow cellular repair.

mTORC1 drives growth and supresses autophagy; chronic over activation is linked to agung mechanisms (proteostasis, stem cell decline, reduced autophagy). This is a central, well replicated finding in aging bio.

Exercises activates mTOR acutely (resistance training + amino acids) and that acute activation is necessary for muscle protein and synthesis and adaptation. But regular exercise can increase sensitivity of mTOR signaling rather than locking you into permanently pathological mTOR state. (basically -> acute mTOR spikes from training ≠ chronic mTOR overdrive at rest).

AMPK activation promotes autophagy, mitochondrial health; AMPK activity tends to decline w age. Interventions that activate AMPK have robust mechanistic rationale and animal evidence for healthy span benefits.

GHRP-6/GH secretagogues raise GH and can raise IGF1; long term safety data in adults are less (I THINK) and they aren't proven anti aging therapies. I'd say it's risky.

Now, about your post -
Exercise + mTOR activation is not anti longevity per se. The pragmatic goal in my opinion is periodic switching between build and repair modes (not perma suppression of mTOR while u train)


And bout nutrition -

i) Protein and Leucine - necessary to stimulate muscle protein synthesis on training days. Moderate protein intake on repair days is fine ig. You can reduce carbs rather than protein if goal is a repair/AMPK signal.

ii) Resveratrol & polyphenols - activate sirtuins/AMPK in models. human effects are modest ish, i think.

this is most of what i know and im open to corrections.

inb4 dnr

 

[KeepCopingLads]

If the sauna’s downregulation of mTOR is significant it’d be stupid to go in when your body is in a building state aka after a workout

According to what I’m reading, the sauna would only be good on rest days to repair instead of actually build (muscle)

Interesting

I go in sauna when I go swimming

 

[KeepCopingLads]

the core idea that mTOR vs AMPK is a key longevity axis is correct. But I'd argue that the biology is not a simple "train = perma high mTOR/age fast" story. Resistance training and spikes in IGF1/mTOR are acutely pro growth, while intermittent AMPK activation promotes autophagy & repair. The healthy strategy supported by current science is periodization: let mTOR run when u wanna build, then deliberately switch into AMPK/autophagy favoring states to allow cellular repair.

mTORC1 drives growth and supresses autophagy; chronic over activation is linked to agung mechanisms (proteostasis, stem cell decline, reduced autophagy). This is a central, well replicated finding in aging bio.

Exercises activates mTOR acutely (resistance training + amino acids) and that acute activation is necessary for muscle protein and synthesis and adaptation. But regular exercise can increase sensitivity of mTOR signaling rather than locking you into permanently pathological mTOR state. (basically -> acute mTOR spikes from training ≠ chronic mTOR overdrive at rest).

AMPK activation promotes autophagy, mitochondrial health; AMPK activity tends to decline w age. Interventions that activate AMPK have robust mechanistic rationale and animal evidence for healthy span benefits.

GHRP-6/GH secretagogues raise GH and can raise IGF1; long term safety data in adults are less (I THINK) and they aren't proven anti aging therapies. I'd say it's risky.

Now, about your post -
Exercise + mTOR activation is not anti longevity per se. The pragmatic goal in my opinion is periodic switching between build and repair modes (not perma suppression of mTOR while u train)


And bout nutrition -

i) Protein and Leucine - necessary to stimulate muscle protein synthesis on training days. Moderate protein intake on repair days is fine ig. You can reduce carbs rather than protein if goal is a repair/AMPK signal.

ii) Resveratrol & polyphenols - activate sirtuins/AMPK in models. human effects are modest ish, i think.

this is most of what i know and im open to corrections.

inb4 dnr

Gpt ahh

 

[TheTD7]

Gpt ahh

it isn't

 

[LEFORT17]

Constantly elevated mTOR signalling with a near deactivated ampk pathway

I believe @androgenic touched on this topic.

Basically when u spike igf-1, put your budy under mechanical tension, perform heavy activity, you’re living in a constant state of upregulated mTOR activity. Which in turn downregulates ur longevity genes and anti-aging genes (like ampk, SIRT1 and foxo)

Ideally you’d want to find an equilibrium between the activations of these 2 genomes.

For example
4 training days, heavy carb loads to spike igf-1 (possibly with an GHRP-6)
3 rest days, sauna, 12h fast, light meals before and after fast to activate AMPK gene and downregulate mTORC1.
Compounds for rest days :
Resveratrol, MB, metformin, berberine, anti-oxidants)

On training days ur body is optimized completely to opt for BUILDING, while on rest days u’d be optimized to REPAIR (in the form of collagen, elastin, cellular health, insulin sensitivity, mitochondrial health)

Does anyone have any more thoughts on this subject?

Yesterday was my first time reading up on it. I’m always willing to discover more to it

@Clavicular

general stress for the body. goatis is absolutly right about this topic. he definitely confinced me that gym is overall bad for the body and health later in life. If ur fat, sure go and less that fat, anything else is coping