Why testosterone is useless without dht

[20/04/2008]

Why testosterone is useless without dht



Who here thinks that DHT is just a stronger version of testosterone?

Well, I’m here to tell you that the DHT has unique benefits that testosterone doesn’t have, and this is why it’s important to maximize your DHT.

You can have high levels of testosterone and still feel like you have low androgens because your DHT is not on point and/or your 5 alpha to 5 beta reductase ratio is not being optimized.



DHT basics

So we do know that DHT is about 10 times stronger than testosterone. This is because DHT has 4 times higher binding affinity to the androgen receptor than testosterone. And DHT binds 3 to 5 times longer to the androgen receptor than testosterone

Androgen Receptor Structure, Function and Biology: From Bench to Bedside - PMC

The actions of androgens such as testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are mediated via the androgen receptor (AR), a ligand-dependent nuclear transcription factor and member of the steroid hormone nuclear receptor family. Given its widespread ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DHT is much more capable of exerting what it’s supposed to do than testosterone.

Even though DHT is found in 10 times lower amounts than testosterone, it’s 10 times stronger. If you maximize 5 alpha-reductase (5AR) and testosterone, you’ll have a much greater total androgen pool than someone with low 5AR. This means you will have more androgens to bind to the androgen receptor, making you more anabolic and androgenic.

Androgens binding to the androgen receptor​

Here’s what happens when androgens bind to the androgen receptor.

Heat shock protein 70 and 90 are bound to the androgen receptor. Once the androgen binds to the receptor, the heat shock proteins detach and the androgen receptor can enter the nucleus. Once inside, it binds to the androgen response element (ARE). Various cofactors can then also bind to the AR/ARE complex. There are also multiple androgen response elements as well as co-regulators

Complexities of androgen action - PubMed

Androgens mediate a wide range of processes during embryogenesis and in the adult. In mammals, the principal androgens are testosterone and its 5alpha-reduced metabolite, 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Although these androgenic hormones are diverse in character, it is believed that their...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Differential regulation of testosterone vs. 5α-dihydrotestosterone by selective androgen response elements - Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry

There are two major physiological androgens, testosterone (T), and 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which induce different responses in mammals. These androgens regulate the target gene transcription via binding to and activating the same androgen receptor (AR). The molecular mechanisms that differ...

link.springer.com

Selective ARE is a mechanism for ligand-specific regulation of AR function (R).

So as you can see, it’s more complicatedthan just binding to the androgen receptor and exerting 1 action.

Different androgens on the androgen receptor​

Because the structure of each androgen is different, they will bind differently to the androgen receptor and exert different effects.

As you can see from the structures above, these androgens are about 95% similar, but they vary a lot in how potently they bind to the androgen receptor.

And they induce slightly different configurations despite binding to the same receptor.

It’s the same thing with SARMs. SARMs act on the androgen receptor.

The hypothesis for how SARMs work, and how they are anabolic but not androgenic, are those two hypotheses.

1)Hypothesis 1 (coactivator hypothesis): This hypothesis presumes that testosterone-bound AR and SARM-bound AR have different coregulator proteins, which leads to transcriptional activation of a differentially regulated collection of genes

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2217/fon.09.106

• Meaning, SARMs, and androgens regulate genes differently despite acting on the same receptor.

2) Hypothesis 2: This hypothesis assumes that distinctive ligand classes have unique thermodynamic partitioning and are expressed into conformationally different states. The conformational modifications in the ligand-binding domain are induced by the ligand binding and might change surface topology, thus modifying protein-protein interactions between AR and other coregulators

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2217/fon.09.106

1. don’t know about you, but that makes little sense to me

Additionally, testosterone is less effective at stabilizing AR than DHT. These observations suggest that DHT, by enhancing the stabilization of AR and its action, amplifies the T signal in those tissues which contain 5a-reductase

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190962201215461

Without DHT you have weaker AR signalling.

So as I mentioned, the androgen receptor binds differently to these different compounds, and this creates the conformational modifications in the ligand binding domain induced by ligand binding and might change surface topology, thus modifying protein-to-protein interaction between the androgen receptor and other co-regulators.

Summary​

It’s complex stuff, but because the structures of these molecules are different, they induce different changes when binding to the same receptor. And also testosterone and DHT induce different androgen response elements.

It’s different co-regulators and different androgen response elements. And this is actually why studies have shown that there are unique benefits to DHT that testosterone does not have. So when you give, for example, DHEA or testosterone to a human or an animal, and you inhibit 5 alpha-reductase with, for example, finasteride, you don’t get the same benefit as not blocking it, right?

So there are unique benefits to DHT. A lot of people would say that DHT plays no role in the adult. You only need testosterone. That’s not true. DHT is not just a stronger version of distortion. It’s different and induces different changes to the androgen receptor and gives unique benefits that testosterone will not give you.

So you might be thinking: “Well, I’m just going to use DHT.” Now that’s also a wrong conclusion because there are unique benefits of testosterone and DHT. If you were to use just DHT, you would miss out on the benefits of testosterone. But if you use just testosterone and you don’t optimize your 5 alpha reductase enzyme or block it, you might miss out on the benefits of DHT.

Make sure that your 5 alpha reductase is working properly so you can convert your testosterone and DHEA and androstenedione into the 5 alpha reduced steroids so you can benefit from that.

Also, 5AR doesn’t just create DHT, it also deactivates cortisol and aldosterone and activates progesterone to create allopregnanolone. 5 alpha reductase is very important, not just for creating DHT.

Tags:@Hexmask

 

[PsychoH]

Why testosterone is useless without dht



Who here thinks that DHT is just a stronger version of testosterone?

Well, I’m here to tell you that the DHT has unique benefits that testosterone doesn’t have, and this is why it’s important to maximize your DHT.

You can have high levels of testosterone and still feel like you have low androgens because your DHT is not on point and/or your 5 alpha to 5 beta reductase ratio is not being optimized.



DHT basics

So we do know that DHT is about 10 times stronger than testosterone. This is because DHT has 4 times higher binding affinity to the androgen receptor than testosterone. And DHT binds 3 to 5 times longer to the androgen receptor than testosterone

Androgen Receptor Structure, Function and Biology: From Bench to Bedside - PMC

The actions of androgens such as testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are mediated via the androgen receptor (AR), a ligand-dependent nuclear transcription factor and member of the steroid hormone nuclear receptor family. Given its widespread ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DHT is much more capable of exerting what it’s supposed to do than testosterone.

Even though DHT is found in 10 times lower amounts than testosterone, it’s 10 times stronger. If you maximize 5 alpha-reductase (5AR) and testosterone, you’ll have a much greater total androgen pool than someone with low 5AR. This means you will have more androgens to bind to the androgen receptor, making you more anabolic and androgenic.

Androgens binding to the androgen receptor​

Here’s what happens when androgens bind to the androgen receptor.

Heat shock protein 70 and 90 are bound to the androgen receptor. Once the androgen binds to the receptor, the heat shock proteins detach and the androgen receptor can enter the nucleus. Once inside, it binds to the androgen response element (ARE). Various cofactors can then also bind to the AR/ARE complex. There are also multiple androgen response elements as well as co-regulators

Complexities of androgen action - PubMed

Androgens mediate a wide range of processes during embryogenesis and in the adult. In mammals, the principal androgens are testosterone and its 5alpha-reduced metabolite, 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Although these androgenic hormones are diverse in character, it is believed that their...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Differential regulation of testosterone vs. 5α-dihydrotestosterone by selective androgen response elements - Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry

There are two major physiological androgens, testosterone (T), and 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which induce different responses in mammals. These androgens regulate the target gene transcription via binding to and activating the same androgen receptor (AR). The molecular mechanisms that differ...

link.springer.com

Selective ARE is a mechanism for ligand-specific regulation of AR function (R).

So as you can see, it’s more complicatedthan just binding to the androgen receptor and exerting 1 action.

Different androgens on the androgen receptor​

Because the structure of each androgen is different, they will bind differently to the androgen receptor and exert different effects.

As you can see from the structures above, these androgens are about 95% similar, but they vary a lot in how potently they bind to the androgen receptor.

And they induce slightly different configurations despite binding to the same receptor.

It’s the same thing with SARMs. SARMs act on the androgen receptor.

The hypothesis for how SARMs work, and how they are anabolic but not androgenic, are those two hypotheses.

1)Hypothesis 1 (coactivator hypothesis): This hypothesis presumes that testosterone-bound AR and SARM-bound AR have different coregulator proteins, which leads to transcriptional activation of a differentially regulated collection of genes

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2217/fon.09.106

• Meaning, SARMs, and androgens regulate genes differently despite acting on the same receptor.

2) Hypothesis 2: This hypothesis assumes that distinctive ligand classes have unique thermodynamic partitioning and are expressed into conformationally different states. The conformational modifications in the ligand-binding domain are induced by the ligand binding and might change surface topology, thus modifying protein-protein interactions between AR and other coregulators

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2217/fon.09.106

1. don’t know about you, but that makes little sense to me

Additionally, testosterone is less effective at stabilizing AR than DHT. These observations suggest that DHT, by enhancing the stabilization of AR and its action, amplifies the T signal in those tissues which contain 5a-reductase

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190962201215461

Without DHT you have weaker AR signalling.

So as I mentioned, the androgen receptor binds differently to these different compounds, and this creates the conformational modifications in the ligand binding domain induced by ligand binding and might change surface topology, thus modifying protein-to-protein interaction between the androgen receptor and other co-regulators.

Summary​

It’s complex stuff, but because the structures of these molecules are different, they induce different changes when binding to the same receptor. And also testosterone and DHT induce different androgen response elements.

It’s different co-regulators and different androgen response elements. And this is actually why studies have shown that there are unique benefits to DHT that testosterone does not have. So when you give, for example, DHEA or testosterone to a human or an animal, and you inhibit 5 alpha-reductase with, for example, finasteride, you don’t get the same benefit as not blocking it, right?

So there are unique benefits to DHT. A lot of people would say that DHT plays no role in the adult. You only need testosterone. That’s not true. DHT is not just a stronger version of distortion. It’s different and induces different changes to the androgen receptor and gives unique benefits that testosterone will not give you.

So you might be thinking: “Well, I’m just going to use DHT.” Now that’s also a wrong conclusion because there are unique benefits of testosterone and DHT. If you were to use just DHT, you would miss out on the benefits of testosterone. But if you use just testosterone and you don’t optimize your 5 alpha reductase enzyme or block it, you might miss out on the benefits of DHT.

Make sure that your 5 alpha reductase is working properly so you can convert your testosterone and DHEA and androstenedione into the 5 alpha reduced steroids so you can benefit from that.

Also, 5AR doesn’t just create DHT, it also deactivates cortisol and aldosterone and activates progesterone to create allopregnanolone. 5 alpha reductase is very important, not just for creating DHT.

Tags:@Hexmask

Very good thread bump.

 

[20/04/2008]

Very good thread bump.

@Hexmask
@Orc
@Chintuck22
@MA_ascender
@Sapieeen
@NZb6Air
@5.5psl
@JohnDoe
@Jonas2k7

 

[PsychoH]

Are tags deactivated ???

nope.

 

[Yuki]

Why testosterone is useless without dht



Who here thinks that DHT is just a stronger version of testosterone?

Well, I’m here to tell you that the DHT has unique benefits that testosterone doesn’t have, and this is why it’s important to maximize your DHT.

You can have high levels of testosterone and still feel like you have low androgens because your DHT is not on point and/or your 5 alpha to 5 beta reductase ratio is not being optimized.



DHT basics

So we do know that DHT is about 10 times stronger than testosterone. This is because DHT has 4 times higher binding affinity to the androgen receptor than testosterone. And DHT binds 3 to 5 times longer to the androgen receptor than testosterone

Androgen Receptor Structure, Function and Biology: From Bench to Bedside - PMC

The actions of androgens such as testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are mediated via the androgen receptor (AR), a ligand-dependent nuclear transcription factor and member of the steroid hormone nuclear receptor family. Given its widespread ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DHT is much more capable of exerting what it’s supposed to do than testosterone.

Even though DHT is found in 10 times lower amounts than testosterone, it’s 10 times stronger. If you maximize 5 alpha-reductase (5AR) and testosterone, you’ll have a much greater total androgen pool than someone with low 5AR. This means you will have more androgens to bind to the androgen receptor, making you more anabolic and androgenic.

Androgens binding to the androgen receptor​

Here’s what happens when androgens bind to the androgen receptor.

Heat shock protein 70 and 90 are bound to the androgen receptor. Once the androgen binds to the receptor, the heat shock proteins detach and the androgen receptor can enter the nucleus. Once inside, it binds to the androgen response element (ARE). Various cofactors can then also bind to the AR/ARE complex. There are also multiple androgen response elements as well as co-regulators

Complexities of androgen action - PubMed

Androgens mediate a wide range of processes during embryogenesis and in the adult. In mammals, the principal androgens are testosterone and its 5alpha-reduced metabolite, 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Although these androgenic hormones are diverse in character, it is believed that their...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Differential regulation of testosterone vs. 5α-dihydrotestosterone by selective androgen response elements - Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry

There are two major physiological androgens, testosterone (T), and 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which induce different responses in mammals. These androgens regulate the target gene transcription via binding to and activating the same androgen receptor (AR). The molecular mechanisms that differ...

link.springer.com

Selective ARE is a mechanism for ligand-specific regulation of AR function (R).

So as you can see, it’s more complicatedthan just binding to the androgen receptor and exerting 1 action.

Different androgens on the androgen receptor​

Because the structure of each androgen is different, they will bind differently to the androgen receptor and exert different effects.

As you can see from the structures above, these androgens are about 95% similar, but they vary a lot in how potently they bind to the androgen receptor.

And they induce slightly different configurations despite binding to the same receptor.

It’s the same thing with SARMs. SARMs act on the androgen receptor.

The hypothesis for how SARMs work, and how they are anabolic but not androgenic, are those two hypotheses.

1)Hypothesis 1 (coactivator hypothesis): This hypothesis presumes that testosterone-bound AR and SARM-bound AR have different coregulator proteins, which leads to transcriptional activation of a differentially regulated collection of genes

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2217/fon.09.106

• Meaning, SARMs, and androgens regulate genes differently despite acting on the same receptor.

2) Hypothesis 2: This hypothesis assumes that distinctive ligand classes have unique thermodynamic partitioning and are expressed into conformationally different states. The conformational modifications in the ligand-binding domain are induced by the ligand binding and might change surface topology, thus modifying protein-protein interactions between AR and other coregulators

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2217/fon.09.106

1. don’t know about you, but that makes little sense to me

Additionally, testosterone is less effective at stabilizing AR than DHT. These observations suggest that DHT, by enhancing the stabilization of AR and its action, amplifies the T signal in those tissues which contain 5a-reductase

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190962201215461

Without DHT you have weaker AR signalling.

So as I mentioned, the androgen receptor binds differently to these different compounds, and this creates the conformational modifications in the ligand binding domain induced by ligand binding and might change surface topology, thus modifying protein-to-protein interaction between the androgen receptor and other co-regulators.

Summary​

It’s complex stuff, but because the structures of these molecules are different, they induce different changes when binding to the same receptor. And also testosterone and DHT induce different androgen response elements.

It’s different co-regulators and different androgen response elements. And this is actually why studies have shown that there are unique benefits to DHT that testosterone does not have. So when you give, for example, DHEA or testosterone to a human or an animal, and you inhibit 5 alpha-reductase with, for example, finasteride, you don’t get the same benefit as not blocking it, right?

So there are unique benefits to DHT. A lot of people would say that DHT plays no role in the adult. You only need testosterone. That’s not true. DHT is not just a stronger version of distortion. It’s different and induces different changes to the androgen receptor and gives unique benefits that testosterone will not give you.

So you might be thinking: “Well, I’m just going to use DHT.” Now that’s also a wrong conclusion because there are unique benefits of testosterone and DHT. If you were to use just DHT, you would miss out on the benefits of testosterone. But if you use just testosterone and you don’t optimize your 5 alpha reductase enzyme or block it, you might miss out on the benefits of DHT.

Make sure that your 5 alpha reductase is working properly so you can convert your testosterone and DHEA and androstenedione into the 5 alpha reduced steroids so you can benefit from that.

Also, 5AR doesn’t just create DHT, it also deactivates cortisol and aldosterone and activates progesterone to create allopregnanolone. 5 alpha reductase is very important, not just for creating DHT.

Tags:@Hexmask

 

[HandsomeOrDeath]

Dht is for gods!

 

[Dyorotic]

DHT is rapidly metabolised 3-alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in muscle tissue

/thread

 

[20/04/2008]

DHT is rapidly metabolised 3-alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in muscle tissue

/thread

You read the thread in 1 min
Are you fucking crazy do you want me to believe you actually read it

 

[Dyorotic]

You read the thread in 1 min
Are you fucking crazy do you want me to believe you actually read it

Not going to read garbage produced by a dht worshipping tranny faggot.

You will 100% come to same conclusion as I did down the line when your hair is dropping in swathes and your skin quality goes to shit.

My skin has never been better, my hairline has never been better, my body has never been better, my LOOKS have never been better. All after adding dutasteride in.

 

[20/04/2008]

Not going to read garbage produced by a dht worshipping tranny faggot.

You will 100% come to same conclusion as I did down the line when your hair is dropping in swathes and your skin quality goes to shit.

My skin has never been better, my hairline has never been better, my body has never been better, my LOOKS have never been better. All after adding dutasteride in.

You know im on fucking gear for 2 years now
No hair sheeding like wtf do you talk about

 

[Dyorotic]

No hair sheeding like wtf do you talk about

That's awesome. Good for you. You have great genetics

That isn't my problem, my problem is you faggots who dissuade other potential steroid users from using 5ar inhibitors simply because YOU don't experience hairloss.

 

[20/04/2008]

@Hexmask
@Orc
@Chintuck22
@MA_ascender
@Sapieeen
@NZb6Air
@5.5psl
@JohnDoe
@Jonas2k7

@halloweed

 

[nuclearlooksmaxxer]

Bumppp

 

[HandsomeOrDeath]

Dht is God's gift to incels

 

[mlbmogger252]

Dnr dht is utterly useless past age 21

 

[TheNextOPry]

doesnt dht cause baldness

 

[20/04/2008]

doesnt dht cause baldness

Not the main driver

 

[Bitchwhipper2]

Trash hormone

Not the main driver

Its the main driver

 

[20/04/2008]

Trash hormone

Its the main driver

Then why did patients had hairloss when they took tamoxifen and finasteride together

 

[Bitchwhipper2]

Then why did patients had hairloss when they took tamoxifen and finasteride together

Because low E2 causes hair to shed.

When I took aromasin I lost hair all over my body

 

[20/04/2008]

Because low E2 causes hair to shed.

When I took aromasin I lost hair all over my body

Exactly
Then its not only dht
The only guys taht should take fin/dit are the guys who use more than 800 aas total a week
If not
You should focus on
Lowering cortisol
Oxygen/Co2 ratio (if you don’t trut me put a cap on your head for 10 hours and watch your hair shed like a mf)
Keeping your estrogen in the 20-40 range
Fixng nutrients defiencys
And much more….

 

[Bitchwhipper2]

Exactly
Then its not only dht

Male pattern baldness is basicly only DHT and testosterone which has nothing to do with what I was experiencing.

The only guys taht should take fin/dit are the guys who use more than 800 aas total a week
If not

No. Everyone suffering from male pattern baldness should take fin. The type if hairloss from deficiencies and low estrogen is completely different to a receding hairline or thinning crown

You should focus on
Lowering cortisol

Cope

Oxygen/Co2 ratio (if you don’t trut me put a cap on your head for 10 hours and watch your hair shed like a mf)

Cope

Keeping your estrogen in the 20-40 range
Fixng nutrients defiencys

Cope

And much more….

Cope.

If youre losing hair only on the top of your head no amount of healthmaxxing will fix that. YOU NEED TO CRUSH DHT

If Its a more universal pattern across the entire scalp and body it could be the things you listed. But thats not the case 90% of the time

 

[20/04/2008]

Male pattern baldness is basicly only DHT and testosterone which has nothing to do with what I was experiencing.

No. Everyone suffering from male pattern baldness should take fin. The type if hairloss from deficiencies and low estrogen is completely different to a receding hairline or thinning crown

Cope

Cope

Cope

Cope.

If youre losing hair only on the top of your head no amount of healthmaxxing will fix that. YOU NEED TO CRUSH DHT

If Its a more universal pattern across the entire scalp and body it could be the things you listed. But thats not the case 90% of the time

Cope
I writed an entire thread debunking that

 

[Bitchwhipper2]

Cope
I writed an entire thread debunking that

Link

 

[piec]

Cope
I writed an entire thread debunking that

i have never seen someone so confident in such bullshit

 

[DR. NICKGA]

DHT basics

So we do know that DHT is about 10 times stronger than testosterone. This is because DHT has 4 times higher binding affinity to the androgen receptor than testosterone. And DHT binds 3 to 5 times longer to the androgen receptor than testosterone

Androgen Receptor Structure, Function and Biology: From Bench to Bedside - PMC

The actions of androgens such as testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are mediated via the androgen receptor (AR), a ligand-dependent nuclear transcription factor and member of the steroid hormone nuclear receptor family. Given its widespread ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DHT is much more capable of exerting what it’s supposed to do than testosterone.

Even though DHT is found in 10 times lower amounts than testosterone, it’s 10 times stronger. If you maximize 5 alpha-reductase (5AR) and testosterone, you’ll have a much greater total androgen pool than someone with low 5AR. This means you will have more androgens to bind to the androgen receptor, making you more anabolic and androgenic.

What are you talking about??

Testosterone is a endrocine hormone.. it has all effects on all tissues

Dht is a paracrine hormone.. it has only effect on where its produced , like the prostate , scalp etc....

It dont matter if dht is stronger then T
T is the pure masculine hormone


Again you are mispreading information

 

[DR. NICKGA]

Exactly
Then its not only dht
The only guys taht should take fin/dit are the guys who use more than 800 aas total a week
If not
You should focus on
Lowering cortisol
Oxygen/Co2 ratio (if you don’t trut me put a cap on your head for 10 hours and watch your hair shed like a mf)
Keeping your estrogen in the 20-40 range
Fixng nutrients defiencys
And much more….

Literaly every all researchers agreed on the fact that androgenetic ALOPECIA aka balding is caused by DHT + higher amount of androgen receptors in the scalp


Its YOU (a retard) vs almost all researchers

Its not a secret, we alr figured out why males bald

And its not because of a nutritient deficiency or cortisol??

Because low E2 causes hair to shed.

When I took aromasin I lost hair all over my body

?????? So???? This is not balding what most males experience, most males have normal levels of estrogen

 

[piec]

Again you are mispreading information

nigger is the almighty god of spreading misinformation

 

[DR. NICKGA]

Trash hormone

Its the main driver

yes dht is (half) responsible for all male disseases

Balding, acne , prostate cancer

 

[Bitchwhipper2]

?????? So???? This is not balding what most males experience

Yea, exactly. I was explaining why tamoxifen (an estrogen blocker) was causing a type of hairloss unrelated to the balding he was talking about, therefore making the study irrelevant.

 

[DR. NICKGA]

Yea, exactly. I was explaining why tamoxifen (an estrogen blocker) was causing a type of hairloss unrelated to the balding he was talking about, therefore making the study irrelevant.

Yea he is making weird scenarios up which happend to no one

Very weird

 

[penaldinho]

Everybody saying dht is trash hormone because it causes baldness. But would it be smart to optimaze it if your below 18 not in the balding age?

 

[boykoborisov]

Not going to read garbage produced by a dht worshipping tranny faggot.

You will 100% come to same conclusion as I did down the line when your hair is dropping in swathes and your skin quality goes to shit.

My skin has never been better, my hairline has never been better, my body has never been better, my LOOKS have never been better. All after adding dutasteride in.

Yes, I agree, DHT is useless af, dutasteride is mvp

 

[PTOSIS]

DNR. I'm nuking DHT with dutasteride because it is a TRASH FUCKING HORMONE. Shit made me start balding at 18, fuck DHT. Dut / fin works because I still have hair in my mid 20s. I'd be severely balding if I didn't lower my DHT levels.

 

[20/04/2008]

DNR. I'm nuking DHT with dutasteride because it is a TRASH FUCKING HORMONE. Shit made me start balding at 18, fuck DHT. Shit works because I still have hair in my mid 20s. I'd be severely balding if I didn't lower my DHT levels.

You just had low estrogen + high cortisol + multiple other factor and blamed it on dht
Then why do hypogonadol mf lose hair why do women lose hair why guys who take serm lose hair and the list goes on and on….
Im not saying that dut/fin don’t work they work amazing but they make you only the shell of a man you really are
And im not saying that dht alone doesn’t cause hairloss
Dht ≠ the only factor to hairloss

 

[PTOSIS]

You just had low estrogen + high cortisol + multiple other factor and blamed it on dht
Then why do hypogonadol mf lose hair why do women lose hair why guys who take serm lose hair and the list goes on and on….
Im not saying that dut/fin don’t work they work amazing but they make you only the shell of a man you really are
And im not saying that dht alone doesn’t cause hairloss
Dht ≠ the only factor to hairloss

Nobody knows the exact cause of hair loss. I'm sure there is more to it than just DHT because people still lose hair even on finasteride / dutasteride over the years. DHT must play a big part in it though.

I don't feel like less of a man after inhibiting my DHT, I feel the same as before, I don't think it's very important after puberty.

 

[20/04/2008]

Do whatever you want
But if you hate dht that much
You can just use 100 mg deca a week
So now you have 0 dht in your blood

Nobody knows the exact cause of hair loss. I'm sure there is more to it than just DHT because people still lose hair even on finasteride / dutasteride over the years. DHT must play a big part in it though.

I don't feel like less of a man after inhibiting my DHT, I feel the same as before, I don't think it's very important after puberty.

 

[hopecel]

yes dht is (half) responsible for all male disseases

Balding, acne , prostate cancer

not everyone's scalp is sensitive to high DHT levels

if you drink coffee and smoke cigarettes for decades your DHT levels are constantly high but you won't necessarily end up being bald (example: my father, NW0)

 

[EliDKing]

if you drink coffee and smoke cigarettes for decades your DHT levels are constantly high

so drinking coffee and smoking cigs will increase bonemass in puberty because of the high dht technically?

is it just cigs or is it nicotine in general, because then i would much rather take snus

 

[20/04/2008]

so drinking coffee and smoking cigs will increase bonemass in puberty because of the high dht technically?

is it just cigs or is it nicotine in general, because then i would much rather take snus

If your hormones were fucked
If you had normal dht levels before then no

 

[hopecel]

so drinking coffee and smoking cigs will increase bonemass in puberty because of the high dht technically?

techinically yes but keep in mind that both of those are detrimental for health (therefore bone health) in the long term

is it just cigs or is it nicotine in general, because then i would much rather take snus

I'd avoid snus tho

and cigs are cooler

 

[übermog]

all this brainstorming about how the body works while your average drunkard 150 years ago who beat his wife an average of three times a week, went everyday drinking and got into a fight every weekend had five times higher test

 

[Saint Casanova]

Not going to read garbage produced by a dht worshipping tranny faggot.

You will 100% come to same conclusion as I did down the line when your hair is dropping in swathes and your skin quality goes to shit.

My skin has never been better, my hairline has never been better, my body has never been better, my LOOKS have never been better. All after adding dutasteride in.

Exactly
Then its not only dht
The only guys taht should take fin/dit are the guys who use more than 800 aas total a week
If not
You should focus on
Lowering cortisol
Oxygen/Co2 ratio (if you don’t trut me put a cap on your head for 10 hours and watch your hair shed like a mf)
Keeping your estrogen in the 20-40 range
Fixng nutrients defiencys
And much more….

No one has tine for all this nonsense. Just take a pill and be done with it

 

[20/04/2008]

all this brainstorming about how the body works while your average drunkard 150 years ago who beat his wife an average of three times a week, went everyday drinking and got into a fight every weekend had five times higher test

Im on roids so 150 years ago I’ll be the human withh the most testosterone ever recorded

 

[ducksoover]

Why testosterone is useless without dht



Who here thinks that DHT is just a stronger version of testosterone?

Well, I’m here to tell you that the DHT has unique benefits that testosterone doesn’t have, and this is why it’s important to maximize your DHT.

You can have high levels of testosterone and still feel like you have low androgens because your DHT is not on point and/or your 5 alpha to 5 beta reductase ratio is not being optimized.



DHT basics

So we do know that DHT is about 10 times stronger than testosterone. This is because DHT has 4 times higher binding affinity to the androgen receptor than testosterone. And DHT binds 3 to 5 times longer to the androgen receptor than testosterone

Androgen Receptor Structure, Function and Biology: From Bench to Bedside - PMC

The actions of androgens such as testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are mediated via the androgen receptor (AR), a ligand-dependent nuclear transcription factor and member of the steroid hormone nuclear receptor family. Given its widespread ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DHT is much more capable of exerting what it’s supposed to do than testosterone.

Even though DHT is found in 10 times lower amounts than testosterone, it’s 10 times stronger. If you maximize 5 alpha-reductase (5AR) and testosterone, you’ll have a much greater total androgen pool than someone with low 5AR. This means you will have more androgens to bind to the androgen receptor, making you more anabolic and androgenic.

Androgens binding to the androgen receptor​

Here’s what happens when androgens bind to the androgen receptor.

Heat shock protein 70 and 90 are bound to the androgen receptor. Once the androgen binds to the receptor, the heat shock proteins detach and the androgen receptor can enter the nucleus. Once inside, it binds to the androgen response element (ARE). Various cofactors can then also bind to the AR/ARE complex. There are also multiple androgen response elements as well as co-regulators

Complexities of androgen action - PubMed

Androgens mediate a wide range of processes during embryogenesis and in the adult. In mammals, the principal androgens are testosterone and its 5alpha-reduced metabolite, 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Although these androgenic hormones are diverse in character, it is believed that their...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Differential regulation of testosterone vs. 5α-dihydrotestosterone by selective androgen response elements - Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry

There are two major physiological androgens, testosterone (T), and 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which induce different responses in mammals. These androgens regulate the target gene transcription via binding to and activating the same androgen receptor (AR). The molecular mechanisms that differ...

link.springer.com

Selective ARE is a mechanism for ligand-specific regulation of AR function (R).

So as you can see, it’s more complicatedthan just binding to the androgen receptor and exerting 1 action.

Different androgens on the androgen receptor​

Because the structure of each androgen is different, they will bind differently to the androgen receptor and exert different effects.

As you can see from the structures above, these androgens are about 95% similar, but they vary a lot in how potently they bind to the androgen receptor.

And they induce slightly different configurations despite binding to the same receptor.

It’s the same thing with SARMs. SARMs act on the androgen receptor.

The hypothesis for how SARMs work, and how they are anabolic but not androgenic, are those two hypotheses.

1)Hypothesis 1 (coactivator hypothesis): This hypothesis presumes that testosterone-bound AR and SARM-bound AR have different coregulator proteins, which leads to transcriptional activation of a differentially regulated collection of genes

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2217/fon.09.106

• Meaning, SARMs, and androgens regulate genes differently despite acting on the same receptor.

2) Hypothesis 2: This hypothesis assumes that distinctive ligand classes have unique thermodynamic partitioning and are expressed into conformationally different states. The conformational modifications in the ligand-binding domain are induced by the ligand binding and might change surface topology, thus modifying protein-protein interactions between AR and other coregulators

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.2217/fon.09.106

1. don’t know about you, but that makes little sense to me

Additionally, testosterone is less effective at stabilizing AR than DHT. These observations suggest that DHT, by enhancing the stabilization of AR and its action, amplifies the T signal in those tissues which contain 5a-reductase

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190962201215461

Without DHT you have weaker AR signalling.

So as I mentioned, the androgen receptor binds differently to these different compounds, and this creates the conformational modifications in the ligand binding domain induced by ligand binding and might change surface topology, thus modifying protein-to-protein interaction between the androgen receptor and other co-regulators.

Summary​

It’s complex stuff, but because the structures of these molecules are different, they induce different changes when binding to the same receptor. And also testosterone and DHT induce different androgen response elements.

It’s different co-regulators and different androgen response elements. And this is actually why studies have shown that there are unique benefits to DHT that testosterone does not have. So when you give, for example, DHEA or testosterone to a human or an animal, and you inhibit 5 alpha-reductase with, for example, finasteride, you don’t get the same benefit as not blocking it, right?

So there are unique benefits to DHT. A lot of people would say that DHT plays no role in the adult. You only need testosterone. That’s not true. DHT is not just a stronger version of distortion. It’s different and induces different changes to the androgen receptor and gives unique benefits that testosterone will not give you.

So you might be thinking: “Well, I’m just going to use DHT.” Now that’s also a wrong conclusion because there are unique benefits of testosterone and DHT. If you were to use just DHT, you would miss out on the benefits of testosterone. But if you use just testosterone and you don’t optimize your 5 alpha reductase enzyme or block it, you might miss out on the benefits of DHT.

Make sure that your 5 alpha reductase is working properly so you can convert your testosterone and DHEA and androstenedione into the 5 alpha reduced steroids so you can benefit from that.

Also, 5AR doesn’t just create DHT, it also deactivates cortisol and aldosterone and activates progesterone to create allopregnanolone. 5 alpha reductase is very important, not just for creating DHT.

Tags:@Hexmask

what about balding?

 

[20/04/2008]

what about balding?

Dht doesn’t make you bald unless you have supraphysiological levels of it (even testosterone dose)
Its mostly other stuff like low estrogen high prolactin and cortisol bad daily life habits ect…
Of you have everything in check
And have high testosterone and high dht you wouldn’t have hairloss even using steroids you wouldn’t have hairloss if everything is in check then when you abuse steroids i where I’ll recommend something like finasteride

 

[ducksoover]

Dht doesn’t make you bald unless you have supraphysiological levels of it (even testosterone dose)
Its mostly other stuff like low estrogen high prolactin and cortisol bad daily life habits ect…
Of you have everything in check
And have high testosterone and high dht you wouldn’t have hairloss even using steroids you wouldn’t have hairloss if everything is in check then when you abuse steroids i where I’ll recommend something like finasteride

honestly i think it's all genetic

Im roiding hard with near perfect hair whilst my brother (25) has thinning hair

 

[20/04/2008]

honestly i think it's all genetic

Im roiding hard with near perfect hair whilst my brother (25) has thinning hair

yes genetics has its role
But are you telling me all those guys who are balding is because of genetics i don’t think so

 

[ducksoover]

because of genetics i don’t think so

I think so

most bodybuilders bald early because they're prone to MPD which affects 60% of male population whilst there are other bodybuilders who still have decent hair. It's genetics man.

 

[Cyrus]

how can you increase my 5ar activity? i have already 1260 total T i just need more dht