Will Trump walk away from the Ukraine War?

[Snicket]

Thoughts on the conflict? Will Trump walk away?

The last few weeks of Trump's foreign policy have been a seesaw ride.

Big confronation and fallout with Zelensky in the White Houe.
Result: Trump quickly and quietly resumed intelligence sharing and existing military support in exchange for a pointless energy ceasefire deal which neither side honored.

Trump promised a mineral extraction deal from Ukraine as compensation for military aid.
Reality: America signed up to a long term investment deal in which Ukraine receives all the proceeds for at least a decade.

The American state department announces that the US had withdrawn from its role as a mediator in the conflict.
Next day, Trump says negotiations are going really well with Russia!

Trump goes on to Fox News and tells the hosts that "Russia is weak and we can can wait them out" while Witkhoff trying to negotiate a deal with Putin in Moscow!

 

[Snicket]

@loyolaxavvierretard

This admin seems completely confused about what it wants to achieve.

 

[Snicket]

@loyolaxavvierretard

This admin seems completely confused about what it wants to achieve.

Maybe someone can revive this thread!

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

I think he has generals eating out his ears to not do it

 

[Snicket]

I think he has generals eating out his ears to not do it

I think Trump is temperamentally incapable of walking away.
He foolishly promised that he could end the conflict within 24 hours.
Walking away entirely would be seen as a big personal defeat for him.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

I think Trump is temperamentally incapable of walking away.
He foolishly promised that he could end the conflict within 24 hours.
Walking away entirely would be seen as a big personal defeat for him.

Yup cant let America look weak now. That is his motivation in playing his cards

 

[Snicket]

Yup cant let America look weak now. That is his motivation in playing his cards

Meanwhile Vance is saying that if America can’t mediate a peace deal, the US will just walk away.

So what incentive does Russia have to agree to anything then?

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

Meanwhile Vance is saying that if America can’t mediate a peace deal, the US will just walk away.

So what incentive does Russia have to agree to anything then?

None, Russia is just watching theatre where Vance is the support cast

 

[Snicket]

None, Russia is just watching theatre where Vance is the support cast

Trump doesn’t seem to have a coherent plan.

If I’m Russian, my working assumption has to be that nothing has changed but to string the Americans along for as long as possible.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

Trump doesn’t seem to have a coherent plan.

If I’m Russian, my working assumption has to be that nothing has changed but to string the Americans along for as long as possible.

True. At some point I do think Military heads will protest the planning of the civilian government in USA. Repeated failures diplomatically cannot be permitted

 

[Snicket]

True. At some point I do think Military heads will protest the planning of the civilian government in USA. Repeated failures diplomatically cannot be permitted

I think Trump will fall in line because he’s not prepared to walk away from the conflict imo and he clearly can’t think of a coherent strategy to replace the existing one with.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

I think Trump will fall in line because he’s not prepared to walk away from the conflict imo and he clearly can’t think of a coherent strategy to replace the existing one with.

His first strategy was to brag

The second one was that of brute forcing peace. Didnt work

Third strategy is hot and cold ehich doesnt even make sense

Fourth one will hopefully be like you said

 

[Snicket]

His first strategy was to brag

The second one was that of brute forcing peace. Didnt work

Third strategy is hot and cold ehich doesnt even make sense

Fourth one will hopefully be like you said

A big issue is that Trunp’s two most senior negotiators, Witkhoff and Kellog have completely conflicting views on the Ukraine war.

Witkhoff has zero experience in high level diplomatic negotiations and he was sent alone to Moscow!

If Trump wanted to withdraw from Ukraine, the only coherent thing to do would have been to made a clean break in January.

He’s got roped into the conflict and has ownership of it now.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

A big issue is that Trunp’s two most senior negotiators, Witkhoff and Kelley have completely conflicting views on the Ukraine war.

Witkhoff has zero experience in high level diplomatic negotiations and he was sent alone to Moscow!

If Trump wanted to withdraw from Ukraine, the only coherent thing to do would have been to made a clean break in January at the onset of his presidency.

He’s got roped into the conflict and has ownership of it now.

By the time this ends we'll be talking about what Trump could have done. Wonder if it will positive for Nato

 

[Snicket]

By the time this ends we'll be talking about what Trump could have done. Wonder if it will positive for Nato

Trump inherited a shit situation but just like trade, he’s incapable of sitting down and coming up with a coherent, workable plan before opening his mouth.

NATO will be okay. There are too many compelling interests for it and I believe they will outlast this presidency.

 

[BigJimsWornOutTires]

Thoughts on the conflict? Will Trump walk away?

The last few weeks of Trump's foreign policy have been a seesaw ride.

Big confronation and fallout with Zelensky in the White Houe.
Result: Trump quickly and quietly resumed intelligence sharing and existing military support in exchange for a pointless energy ceasefire deal which neither side honored.

Trump promised a mineral extraction deal from Ukraine as compensation for military aid.
Reality: America signed up to a long term investment deal in which Ukraine receives all the proceeds for at least a decade.

The American state department announces that the US had withdrawn from its role as a mediator in the conflict.
Next day, Trump says negotiations are going really well with Russia!

Trump goes on to Fox News and tells the hosts that "Russia is weak and we can can wait them out" while Witkhoff trying to negotiate a deal with Putin in Moscow!

We're still moving weapons, be patient.

The US military didn't lose Vietnam. It was the people of America, the pussies and cowards who whined about it and caused so many problems here including the unfortunate death of four American students in Ohio by the National Guard. It was them who infiltrated our military and manipulated the soldiers overseas. America caused us to lose that war.

Ah, yes, catchbacks are a motherfucker. After the 1970s, the government went after the people and punished parents and invited the drug cartels. But not all families knew about the dope, so the government reminded them in the 1980s with War on Drugs. The enemy became their drug addict children.

Then the 1990s, tax their fucking asses into oblivion while the rich takes over the entire government. But ugh, during the latter part of this decade, some assholes was unwillling to work with the "new" government. Those assholes were the same ones who protested Vietnam. Ah, yes, 9/11.

 

[Snicket]

We're still moving weapons, be patient.

The US military didn't lose Vietnam. It was the people of America, the pussies and cowards who whined about it and caused so many problems here including the unfortunate death of four American students in Ohio by the National Guard. It was them who infiltrated our military and manipulated the soldiers overseas. America caused us to lose that war.

I can see where you’re coming from but I think South Vietnam ultimately fell because Vietnamese didn’t support the regime.

In fact, the situation deteriorated so badly that Kennedy authorized the CIA to assassinate President Diem of South Vietnam because he was so unpopular.
Just weeks before Kennedy was killed in fact!

When the Americans withdrew, the regime inevitably collapsed. A similar phenomenon was seen in Afghanistan imo.

More bombs were dropped during Vietnam than WW2 and the war commanded broad American public support for many years before things inevitably turned sour.

 

[aloooeJIEEES]

Thoughts on the conflict? Will Trump walk away?

The last few weeks of Trump's foreign policy have been a seesaw ride.

Big confronation and fallout with Zelensky in the White Houe.
Result: Trump quickly and quietly resumed intelligence sharing and existing military support in exchange for a pointless energy ceasefire deal which neither side honored.

Trump promised a mineral extraction deal from Ukraine as compensation for military aid.
Reality: America signed up to a long term investment deal in which Ukraine receives all the proceeds for at least a decade.

The American state department announces that the US had withdrawn from its role as a mediator in the conflict.
Next day, Trump says negotiations are going really well with Russia!

Trump goes on to Fox News and tells the hosts that "Russia is weak and we can can wait them out" while Witkhoff trying to negotiate a deal with Putin in Moscow!

Zelensky won't stop the war

 

[Snicket]

Zelensky won't stop the war

Zelensky is an irrelevant proxy. He can only do as much as his sponsors allow.


The only major players in this conflict are Russia and the USA.

 

[BigJimsWornOutTires]

I can see where you’re coming from but I think South Vietnam ultimately fell because Vietnamese didn’t support the regime.

In fact, the situation deteriorated so badly that Kennedy authorized the CIA to assassinate President Diem of South Vietnam because he was so unpopular.
Just weeks before Kennedy was killed in fact!

When the Americans withdrew, the regime inevitably collapsed. A similar phenomenon was seen in Afghanistan imo.

More bombs were dropped during Vietnam than WW2 and the war commanded broad American public support for many years before things inevitably turned sour.

Did you know China lies about everything? With that in mind, their population was and is huge! It's not 1.4 billion but OVER 2 billion today. What your foes don't know can be used against them later. With that said, the CIA failed their count of North Vietnam. They knew China would supply bodies, but they relied on manufactured intelligence. Every time we killed one, China supplied them with 50 more. And it was critical to them for the North to win. They knew we would've installed military bases on China's border.

We lost because of our snowflakes and failed intelligence. The ones who whined about the war and was drafted, those were the ones killing innocent people and raping children. They knew what they did was wrong and evil. Yet, they blamed it on the war! "Muh its the war that made me rape the 6 year old in front of her dead parents. The war, maan! It must top!" Assholes and arrogance costed us the war.

The World Trade Center in 2001 was INFESTED with the once protesters of Vietnam.

 

[Snicket]

With that said, the CIA failed their count of North Vietnam. They knew China would supply bodies, but they relied on manufactured intelligence. Every time we killed one, China supplied them with 50 more. And it was critical to them for the North to win. They knew we would've installed military bases on China's border.

The US was worried about China becoming directly involved militarily like in the Koran war - which is why there was no invasion/ serious incursions into North Vietnam.

We lost because of our snowflakes and failed intelligence. The ones who whined about the war and was drafted, those were the ones killing innocent people and raping children. They knew what they did was wrong and evil. Yet, they blamed it on the war! "Muh its the war that made me rape the 6 year old in front of her dead parents. The war, maan! It must top!" Assholes and arrogance costed us the war.

I don't think it would have been winnable without a direct conflict with China in the region.
Even in the Korean War, the best America did was fight China to a stalemate.
And this was a less well equipped China, still reeling from a decades long civil war.

 

[BigJimsWornOutTires]

The US was worried about China becoming directly involved militarily like in the Koran war - which is why there was no invasion/ serious incursions into North Vietnam.

I don't think it would have been winnable without a direct conflict with China in the region.
Even in the Korean War, the best America did was fight China to a stalemate.
And this was a less well equipped China, still reeling from a decades long civil war.

But I wouldn't call Korea a stalemate. They whipped our asses. And the only reason why the Japs during WW2 won battles against China was because they had inside intelligence but one-usage-only. If we hadn't dropped the cluster of bombs we call atomic bombs on Japan, China would have eventually won and invaded Japan and conquered it.

 

[Snicket]

But I wouldn't call Korea a stalemate. They whipped our asses.

Well, the US made it all the way up to the Yalu river before 500K+ Chinese "volunteers" showed up.
The Chinese drove the Americans down to the southernmost part of the Korean peninsula before US forces managed to fight their way back to the 51st parallel.

So I consider it a stalemate but it definitely killed the "invincible America" feeling from WW2.

And the only reason why the Japs during WW2 won battles against China was because they had inside intelligence but one-usage-only. If we hadn't dropped the cluster of bombs we call atomic bombs on Japan, China would have eventually won and invaded Japan and conquered it.

I think the Japanese hugely benefited from the fact that China was deeply divided into different factions at the time.
The Japanese also deliberately funded and worked with the CCP to undermine the official Chinese government.

 

[BigJimsWornOutTires]

Well, the US made it all the way up to the Yalu river before 500K+ Chinese "volunteers" showed up.
The Chinese drove the Americans down to the southernmost part of the Korean peninsula before US forces managed to fight their way back to the 51st parallel.

So I consider it a stalemate but it definitely killed the "invincible America" feeling from WW2.

I think the Japanese hugely benefited from the fact that China was deeply divided into different factions at the time.
The Japanese also deliberately funded and worked with the CCP to undermine the official Chinese government of the time.

Chinese soldiers and their people have something we lack. And the CCP made that successful product. Instead of spoiling their people with riches and conveniences, they make them earn it. They encourage public belittlement of bums, cowards, and snowflakes. They brainwash their people into fighters. We, on the other hand, including Europe and Australia, do the opposite.

I believe we would lose a war against them on the boss level. And if we drop nukes on them, the radiation would affect the many nations around them. They would turn the world against us. So we'll lose there. If no nukes and a heavy reliance on the Air Force, we'll lose. In all scenarios, we'll lose.

 

[Snicket]

Chinese soldiers and their people have something we lack. And the CCP made that successful product. Instead of spoiling their people with riches and conveniences, they make them earn it. They encourage public belittlement of bums, cowards, and snowflakes. They brainwash their people into fighters. We, on the other hand, including Europe and Australia, do the opposite.

I believe we would lose a war against them on the boss level. And if we drop nukes on them, the radiation would affect the many nations around them. They would turn the world against us. So we'll lose there. If no nukes and a heavy reliance on the Air Force, we'll lose. In all scenarios, we'll lose.

I think China has the ability to dominate most of the pacific region but they're not yet militarily capable of it.
Their navy still lags substantially behind the Americans.

They also have significant demographic problems to contend in addition to not being a self-sufficient energy or food producer.

I don't see how China has the resources to become a global hegemon like the US or the British Empire before it.

 

[BigJimsWornOutTires]

I think China has the ability to dominate most of the pacific region but they're not yet militarily capable of it.
Their navy still lags substantially behind the Americans.

They also have significant demographic problems to contend in addition to not being a self-sufficient energy or food producer.

I don't see how China has the resources to become a global hegemon like the US or the British Empire before it.

The only chance we have against China is with India and Russia’s coalition. We need both for a successful massive assault, but that doesn’t mean the world won’t suffer a 2 to 4 billion drop in inhabitants. Ah, yes, the finale stage of Depopulation.

FYI, I’ve seen my future. I die fighting a Chinese Dongfeng ballistic missile using my Walmart Vilinice drone. With hindsight at max, I believed I thought I could blow it up in the sky before it got to me. Knowing what I know now, would I do things differently? Hell no! I know I can blow it up in the sky before it gets to me when the time comes.