Would you go to Safi or Pagnoni for Trimax, Zyggos and Infras and why ?

[soontobechadlite]

Also would both of them use implants from Giant Implants for Zyggos and Infras if I buy them?

Also if you guys had eyperiences with Surgeries with one of them let me know

 

[Deleted member 21048]

Like anyone here has money

 

[Deleted member 46986]

i'd go with sunil richardson

 

[soontobechadlite]

i'd go with sunil richardson

Why?

 

[Deleted member 47180]

Id go with safi if ur rich

 

[soontobechadlite]

Like anyone here has money

Well working 1 or 3 years or getting a medical credit make it possible

Its not like its impossible to get them

 

[soontobechadlite]

Id go with safi if ur rich

I see do you think safi could make one into chad or only chadlite if the person has an average jaw?

 

[Deleted member 47180]

I see do you think safi could make one into chad or only chadlite if the person has an average jaw?

I have no clue but i think its ur best bet but tbh i wouldnt have such expectations realistically expect 1 point increase in psl max

 

[Deleted member 47180]

Do you have that much money anyway ? I remember only bimax was like 35k when i asked

 

[HerpDerpson]

Why?

He lets you design your own plan for the surgery.

 

[soontobechadlite]

I have no clue but i think its ur best bet but tbh i wouldnt have such expectations realistically expect 1 point increase in psl max

I see yeah makes sense can you tell me if im also likely gonna get 1 psl from pagnoni too?

 

[soontobechadlite]

He lets you design your own plan for the surgery.

I see Arent pagnoni amd safi doing the same though?

 

[soontobechadlite]

Do you have that much money anyway ? I remember only bimax was like 35k when i asked

Well im working a lof atm and dont have too many expenses im planning to get it in 6 months and Im also willing to get a medical credit go make it work

My secondary plan was pagnoni since I heard he also lets you plan your trimax and has affordable prices together with infras and zyggos

Also heard from some psople he does big advancements and hopefully thats true

 

[soontobechadlite]

Giant + Pagnoni

They have been working together for a bit, and Pags is very skilled

Safi is shady, a dogmaxxer, botched a friend of mine

Im actually planning to have double jaw surgery + sliding genioplasty

Ans wanted to get implamts for zyggos and infras from Giant implants

Would you say Pagnoni only migs safi if you make him imsert jaw and chin implants from giant?

Cause I want something long term I prefer it over implants in the jaw and chib area

But for the others i consider implants

I heard online a lot that jaw and chin implants hurt and can move and tbat they can get absorbed by the bone

And yeah also that you will have to renew them

 

[PseudoMaxxer]

idiot yapping about surgeries that he’ll never do.

No knowledge at all, and worst of it all he thinks he’ll turn chad after all those surgeries.

Get a grip of reality and go outside.

 

[soontobechadlite]

idiot yapping about surgeries that he’ll never do.

No knowledge at all, and worst of it all he thinks he’ll turn chad after all those surgeries.

Get a grip of reality and go outside.

Jokes on you Im going outside every day ans im probably not as poor as you

Why do you even post if ifs not too help

Do you need attention or do you wanna make other people feel bad just because you feel bad?

 

[Deleted member 46986]

Giant + Pagnoni

They have been working together for a bit, and Pags is very skilled

Safi is shady dogmaxxer, botched a friend of mine

you acting like pagnoni didn't botch noone

 

[soontobechadlite]

Jokes on you Im going outside every day ans im probably not as poor as you

Why do you even post if ifs not too help

Do you need attention or do you wanna make other people feel bad just because you feel bad?

And yes I have limited kniwledge which is why im asking peoole to share their inowledge with me and If they wanna know something that I can help them with I also provude my knowledge

I thibk thats actually how a healthy community works dont you?

 

[PseudoMaxxer]

you wanna make other people feel bad just because you feel bad?

yes

 

[soontobechadlite]

yes

See I knew

 

[soontobechadlite]

No, he mogs Safi all around


Implants ARE long term. Osteotomies can't do a whole lot, and combining them with implants is usually ideal. But you do you



Not true... maybe if they're really shitty silicone installed really badly...

Giant will get you implants made of titanium. They won't move or resorb or anything

Ah ok yeah why would you say that? I keep hearing safi is the best whej it comes to making you into a mogger while pagnoni is the best for implants and also good without implants but that safi is better without

How do you mean osteotomis cant do a whole lot?

Combining them with implants sounds like a good idea but im conflicted about that

I will read some more about titanium implants cause Inheard they hurt a lot when inside as well and people wanting to take them out after a while cause they couldnt gear the pain anymore

So you recommend jaw surgery plus implants?

 

[strujk1]

Ah ok yeah why would you say that? I keep hearing safi is the best whej it comes to making you into a mogger while pagnoni is the best for implants and also good without implants but that safi is better without

How do you mean osteotomis cant do a whole lot?

Combining them with implants sounds like a good idea but im conflicted about that

I will read some more about titanium implants cause Inheard they hurt a lot when inside as well and people wanting to take them out after a while cause they couldnt gear the pain anymore

So you recommend jaw surgery plus implants?

Yeah pagnoni is the choice when it comes to implants he mogs. Gonna get a consultation with him soon regarding zygo and jaw + he's also pretty well priced. Many say that Raffaini is the best in the world when it comes to aesthetics with the jaw and his results are v impressive tbh but some people say he's tricky to deal with and is a self centred fuck

 

[soontobechadlite]

Yeah pagnoni is the choice when it comes to implants he mogs. Gonna get a consultation with him soon regarding zygo and jaw + he's also pretty well priced. Many say that Raffaini is the best in the world when it comes to aesthetics with the jaw and his results are v impressive tbh but some people say he's tricky to deal with and is a self centred fuck

Ah ok so you woukd say if you get trimax without inserting jaw and chin implants that safi would mogg in that case ?

 

[Mr Test]

Safi is shady dogmaxxer, botched a friend of mine

You mean dogmaxxed = botched?
Or botched in another way? Do you know the movements your friend got with safi.
I am douing surgery with safi too and he is very conservative with me.

 

[Deleted member 19957]

Giant + Pagnoni

They have been working together for a bit, and Pags is very skilled

Safi is shady dogmaxxer, botched a friend of mine

Proof that he botched him? On a side note, i'm really starting to believe that the whole "ante face" thing is more a meme than anything else, when i saw some other dude's planification with safi where he literally gave him a -10° occlusal plane to achieve it, i was like

He might be decent at implants, assuming he designs them himself, or has someone really competent doing it.

 

[Mr Test]

Proof that he botched him? On a side note, i'm really starting to believe that the whole "ante face" thing is more a meme than anything else, when i saw some other dude's planification with safi where he literally gave him a -10° occlusal plane to achieve it, i was like

He might be decent at implants, assuming he designs them himself, or has someone really competent doing it.

What? Safi Said he would not Even perform -1grad occlusal plane on me

 

[Deleted member 19957]

What? Safi Said he would not Even perform -1grad occlusal plane on me

Well, i don't know what you look like, but the planification i saw was fucking crazy, pretty sure it's still on this forum.

 

[Deleted member 46986]

You mean dogmaxxed = botched?
Or botched in another way? Do you know the movements your friend got with safi.
I am douing surgery with safi too and he is very conservative with me.

dogmaxxed = overadvanced not exacly "botched"

 

[Mr Test]

Well, i don't know what you look like, but the planification i saw was fucking crazy, pretty sure it's still on this forum.

Doesnt matter how I look. I just cant Imagine safi performing -10grad occlusal plane on anybody.

 

[Mr Test]

My friend's own words: @Mr Test


Safi uses a genioplasty technique that was introduced by Paul Coceancig (Geniopaully). He is known for his gigantic forward advancements, he allegedly did a 19mm horizontal plane advancement thanks to this technique

While this method theoretically allows for massive movement anteriorly, there are three main problems:

1) It is not precise. Many results of lag screw genioplasty look somewhat good from the sides but fail hard from the front and patients are left with massive asymmetries. 3d planning is utterly useless for this type of genio, it is just a mean to make you pay more.

2) There have been cases where bone repair failed because the movements where first, too big and second, the screws couldn't hold the chin in its new position 100% (Pag noticed right away that one of my screw wasn't holding my chin at all for instance)

3) Using screws for downgrafting (which I needed the most) isn't always a possibility, sometimes it makes that movement almost impossible to perform, thats why lag screw is almost always used to perform big anterior movement (forward) and height reduction genio

I had okayish bone repair because Safi did graft some bone to help the process. But it's 1) asymmetrical 2) i needed downgraft bad, i got nothing

Thanks. I am getting half of the movements your friend got (without genio) and this will be my second surgery as I already had bsso with 6mm (not from Safi)

 

[Deleted member 23391]

you acting like pagnoni didn't botch noone

even le infallible bimax god Gunson botched people @ccwarrior

 

[Deleted member 38639]

Also would both of them use implants from Giant Implants for Zyggos and Infras if I buy them?

Also if you guys had eyperiences with Surgeries with one of them let me know

Giant + Pagnoni is a mogger combo. Pagnoni’s designs are pretty decent too from what I’ve heard

 

[soontobechadlite]

My friend's own words: @Mr Test


Safi uses a genioplasty technique that was introduced by Paul Coceancig (Geniopaully). He is known for his gigantic forward advancements, he allegedly did a 19mm horizontal plane advancement thanks to this technique

While this method theoretically allows for massive movement anteriorly, there are three main problems:

1) It is not precise. Many results of lag screw genioplasty look somewhat good from the sides but fail hard from the front and patients are left with massive asymmetries. 3d planning is utterly useless for this type of genio, it is just a mean to make you pay more.

2) There have been cases where bone repair failed because the movements where first, too big and second, the screws couldn't hold the chin in its new position 100% (Pag noticed right away that one of my screw wasn't holding my chin at all for instance)

3) Using screws for downgrafting (which I needed the most) isn't always a possibility, sometimes it makes that movement almost impossible to perform, thats why lag screw is almost always used to perform big anterior movement (forward) and height reduction genio

I had okayish bone repair because Safi did graft some bone to help the process. But it's 1) asymmetrical 2) i needed downgraft bad, i got nothing

Is you friend other than thaz cintent with the surgery and succesfull with women? And also would he have rather gone to pagnoni now that he knows how it turned out or would he still choose safi? And what about safi if you dont need big movenents?

 

[Deleted member 32196]

Giant + Pagnoni is a mogger combo. Pagnoni’s designs are pretty decent too from what I’ve heard

what have you heard about pagnoni TRIMAX specifically

 

[mlffff]

Stay away from Safi at all costs.

He is a master manipulator who is amazing at gaining your trust during the consultation. He will make you feel relaxed as if your in good hands but will ruin you on the operating table. He invests all his energy into convincing people to get surgery with him and preys on the naive. He will leave you with a poor aesthetic result and severe nerve damage. I have seen it first hand.

He messed up my friend badly. Safi left him with a terrible aesthetic result and a numb tongue. He now speaks with a lisp and can't taste anymore. My friend looks way worse than before surgery and hasn't left the house since. His social life has been ruined as his career. Safi also didn't want to release the surgical report or the post operative cbct scan. He was forced to after a lawyers intervention.

Two of Safis patients also reached out complaining about a terrible aesthetic result and nerve damage.

I suggest these three surgeons:

- For jaw surgery alone: Raffaini.
Raffaini is the #1 for jaw surgery in the world. He will analyse your case like no other surgeon. He also has the skill to influence your soft tissue which will leave you with the best aesthetic result. Raffaini is #1 no doubt.

- For jaw surgery combined with implants or implants alone, I suggest Pagnoni.
You don't need Giant Implants, Pagnoni himself is a great implant designer.

I suggest consulting with Raffaini. Pay the 500 Euros for the consult. Get the plan with the movements from Raffaini then go to Pagnoni and request those movements if you want to combine the jaw surgery with implants.

Ramieri is a safe middle ground option as well.

Whatever you do, stay away from Ali-Farid Safi.

Safi has ruined my friend. He drilled into his lingual nerves during the bimax which caused the numb tongue. This has been proven with a 3 tesla MRI scan.
Safis little implant company FaceXImplants is a scam. It's his own company and he has his brother in law as the implant designer who has no experience whatsoever.

Safi preys on the naive.
He can spot a naive person from the first second you open your mouth and then only sees dollar signs.
I've heard too many horror stories about Safi, from his patients to people who have worked for him. I've spoken to several Swiss surgeons who have had to fix his failed bimaxes.
Stay away from this scam artist surgeon whatever you do.

You have Raffaini, Pagnoni, Ramieri.
These three surgeons will give you an amazing aesthetic result... Look no further

 

[soontobechadlite]

Stay away from Safi at all costs.

He is a master manipulator who is amazing at gaining your trust during the consultation. He will make you feel relaxed as if your in good hands but will ruin you on the operating table. He invests all his energy into convincing people to get surgery with him and preys on the naive. He will leave you with a poor aesthetic result and severe nerve damage. I have seen it first hand.

He messed up my friend badly. Safi left him with a terrible aesthetic result and a numb tongue. He now speaks with a lisp and can't taste anymore. My friend looks way worse than before surgery and hasn't left the house since. His social life has been ruined as his career. Safi also didn't want to release the surgical report or the post operative cbct scan. He was forced to after a lawyers intervention.

Two of Safis patients also reached out complaining about a terrible aesthetic result and nerve damage.

I suggest these three surgeons:

- For jaw surgery alone: Raffaini.
Raffaini is the #1 for jaw surgery in the world. He will analyse your case like no other surgeon. He also has the skill to influence your soft tissue which will leave you with the best aesthetic result. Raffaini is #1 no doubt.

- For jaw surgery combined with implants or implants alone, I suggest Pagnoni.
You don't need Giant Implants, Pagnoni himself is a great implant designer.

I suggest consulting with Raffaini. Pay the 500 Euros for the consult. Get the plan with the movements from Raffaini then go to Pagnoni and request those movements if you want to combine the jaw surgery with implants.

Ramieri is a safe middle ground option as well.

Whatever you do, stay away from Ali-Farid Safi.

Safi has ruined my friend. He drilled into his lingual nerves during the bimax which caused the numb tongue. This has been proven with a 3 tesla MRI scan.
Safis little implant company FaceXImplants is a scam. It's his own company and he has his brother in law as the implant designer who has no experience whatsoever.

Safi preys on the naive.
He can spot a naive person from the first second you open your mouth and then only sees dollar signs.
I've heard too many horror stories about Safi, from his patients to people who have worked for him. I've spoken to several Swiss surgeons who have had to fix his failed bimaxes.
Stay away from this scam artist surgeon whatever you do.

You have Raffaini, Pagnoni, Ramieri.
These three surgeons will give you an amazing aesthetic result... Look no further

Thanks I recently heard many bad things and about failed surgeries concerning safi

I will stay far away from him

Can I DM you about surgery questions and have you had surgeries as well?

 

[soontobechadlite]

Thanks I recently heard many bad things and about failed surgeries concerning safi

I will stay far away from him

Can I DM you about surgery questions and have you had surgeries as well?

And btw Sorry for what happened to your friend

 

[4ever]

Why are we only considering Italian surgeons on this forum?

Aren't there probably many other capable surgeons in other EU countries, that just don't market themselves as heavy as those 3?

 

[ascenscionisnear]

Why are we only considering Italian surgeons on this forum?

Aren't there probably many other capable surgeons in other EU countries, that just don't market themselves as heavy as those 3?

Most are unwilling to do surgery first/only it seems. I was speaking to a bluepilled ortho and she was genuinely shocked that surgery first is a real thing.

 

[Marelago]

Why are we only considering Italian surgeons on this forum?

Aren't there probably many other capable surgeons in other EU countries, that just don't market themselves as heavy as those 3?

Because this italian maxfacs are the most skilled. They have an eye for aesthetic and don't botch you with nerve damages and other stuff. Of course I saw also good results from sailer, alfaro gunson and so on but imo the results are not persistent saying they produce some good results but other time the get off the rails in doing poorly results.the italian surgeons mentioned are also more ethical they wouldn't do extreme advancement when they tink that the risk for complications is higher than the reward.