A hypothesis on why most incels are ethnics

No these are genuine questions and they matter
My second post ever was "What is the Ideal Jawline?", not knowing at the time that it all depends upon the rest of your bones, soft tissue, skull size, neck size, etc.

And the description about me was as follows, "I like to play tennis, be with my gf, I love animals! And anyone that says that I'm gullible and I shouldn't trust other's so easily, they're just being grumpy! :D" I forgot the rest of course.
 
My second post ever was "What is the Ideal Jawline?", not knowing at the time that it all depends upon the rest of your bones, soft tissue, skull size, neck size, etc.



It also depends on culture asians perfer v faces
 
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It also depends on culture asians perfer v faces
Asians dont prefer v face. The phenomenon v face has occured cuz asians have the smallest mouth and widest face on average. So they tried to cut off the jaw to get better frontal.
Still lust on high T mandible white guys.
 
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Asians dont prefer v face. The phenomenon v face has occured cuz asians have the smallest mouth and widest face on average. So they tried to cut off the jaw to get better frontal.
Still lust on high T mandible white guys.

Here some counter arguments.


THE study was performed on roughly 1800 females it was a consensus survey it was nation wide nearly 900 males.Vast perferred this on girls on and on males oval shapes were perferred their is even some evidence for the thing after the abstract in study.




1576274094216



Those that took part.


1576274245119



The feminine oval v shaped faces were chosen the most.

Also with men itself rounder chins were preferred again showing cross cultural closeness to prefer averageness.

1576274543960


Notice how this is key cause scientifically this is objective but the features are not they are subjective. This is subjective because this was what was preferred by women in Chinese cultures oval wider chins again going against the western stereotype of a wider angled on strong masculine jawline.



Also we agree that symmetry harmony and ratios are universals but that's it. In fact when your talking about actual traits like what your reffering to such a thing could not be found in fact at-least scientifically.


In the study when shown a picture of a attractive face in this context meaning harmony and ratio's they all universally picked the 1 with the better harmony regardless of race. This is important cause asian's weren't excluded nor whites seen on a higher playing fields.

So this argument is not supporting what you think it actually just supports the academic view of what is attractive and that is symmetry and harmony which is just making sure all your ratio's are right so subjective but still objective so again. even in your own study the babies only looked at scientifcally attractive faces not psl ones their is a huge difference.

PSL standards tend to be ante Caucasian faces that could not be proven scientifically what could though is that scientific attractiveness is a universe but this is merely symmetry their was also no preference for 1 type of symmetry was found over another this hold universal irregardless of race.


1576273568462



Also another argument i have found is that since whites are at the top implicitly and their system is still at the top and they are seen as the thing to strive towards then it would make sense the white standard again implicitly not instrincally it would make the white standard more universal.

Since we have seen in this study in other nations your looks decide your fate and fortune and since white are very high on the status heirachy it would make sense then this jbw phenomina would be possible and the easterners picking up western standard have you never thought about this especially china where your entire life is study.

1 final counter argument as we have seen above the white standard is world wide and is implicitly embedded in every culture without the population even realizing it it would then make sense that extrinsically these facial features are desired more world wide but they were never instrinsic ever you have just been fooled to belive they were.

And when a surgeon defines a good looking face he is a scientist not a philosopher he can make predictions of what is beautiful within the system but he can never understand the truth of what he is making predictions about.

Also even if you were correct attraction is not will not shall never be set in stone social conditioning has a huge role to play Social conditioning plays a huge factor and yes it can fool you into getting your dick wet if strong enough.

So here are some very strong counter rebuttals i would love to hear the response
Biggest example:


https://looksmax.org/threads/hey-ca...-then-get-a-hairtransplant.50732/#post-900318

@LordNorwood Do you ever remember seeing this thread?



How did i do as a rebuttal was the points good enough
 
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Here some counter arguments.


THE study was performed on roughly 1800 females it was a consensus survey it was nation wide nearly 900 males.Vast perferred this on girls on and on males oval shapes were perferred their is even some evidence for the thing after the abstract in study.




View attachment 192363


Those that took part.


View attachment 192364


The feminine oval v shaped faces were chosen the most.

Also with men itself rounder chins were preferred again showing cross cultural closeness to prefer averageness.

View attachment 192367

Notice how this is key cause scientifically this is objective but the features are not they are subjective. This is subjective because this was what was preferred by women in Chinese cultures oval wider chins again going against the western stereotype of a wider angled on strong masculine jawline.



Also we agree that symmetry harmony and ratios are universals but that's it. In fact when your talking about actual traits like what your reffering to such a thing could not be found in fact at-least scientifically.


In the study when shown a picture of a attractive face in this context meaning harmony and ratio's they all universally picked the 1 with the better harmony regardless of race. This is important cause asian's weren't excluded nor whites seen on a higher playing fields.

So this argument is not supporting what you think it actually just supports the academic view of what is attractive and that is symmetry and harmony which is just making sure all your ratio's are right so subjective but still objective so again. even in your own study the babies only looked at scientifcally attractive faces not psl ones their is a huge difference.

PSL standards tend to be ante Caucasian faces that could not be proven scientifically what could though is that scientific attractiveness is a universe but this is merely symmetry their was also no preference for 1 type of symmetry was found over another this hold universal irregardless of race.


View attachment 192360


Also another argument i have found is that since whites are at the top implicitly and their system is still at the top and they are seen as the thing to strive towards then it would make sense the white standard again implicitly not instrincally it would make the white standard more universal.

Since we have seen in this study in other nations your looks decide your fate and fortune and since white are very high on the status heirachy it would make sense then this jbw phenomina would be possible and the easterners picking up western standard have you never thought about this especially china where your entire life is study.

1 final counter argument as we have seen above the white standard is world wide and is implicitly embedded in every culture without the population even realizing it it would then make sense that extrinsically these facial features are desired more world wide but they were never instrinsic ever you have just been fooled to belive they were.

And when a surgeon defines a good looking face he is a scientist not a philosopher he can make predictions of what is beautiful within the system but he can never understand the truth of what he is making predictions about.

Also even if you were correct attraction is not will not shall never be set in stone social conditioning has a huge role to play Social conditioning plays a huge factor and yes it can fool you into getting your dick wet if strong enough.

So here are some very strong counter rebuttals i would love to hear the response




How did i do as a rebuttal was the points good enough

I see, yeah social conditioning matters
But I wanna see what would kids respond to average asian side profile (protruding eyes and sunken maxilla, retruded chin)
And average white side profile.
I remember when I saw white person in the first time of my life, the only media I have consumed were korean ones still i thought they were angelic beautiful.
You cant say muh white standard manipulates korean standard cuz all the actors in Korean media has utter flat face
 
I see, yeah social conditioning matters
But I wanna see what would kids respond to average asian side profile (protruding eyes and sunken maxilla, retruded chin)
And average white side profile.
I remember when I saw white person in the first time of my life, the only media I have consumed were korean ones still i thought they were angelic beautiful.

Okay so point 1 we are in agreement okay.


(protruding eyes and sunken maxilla, retruded chin)

Could i have a citation on this claim pls i keep hearing you say this i'm gonna need a citation from an actual journal or a study something.

<<I remember when I saw white person in the first time of my life, the only media I have consumed were korean ones still i thought they were angelic beautiful.<<


1 Your culture already had these faces at the top to begin with even at young cartoons support the white standard you think it's a coincidence Naruto is tall white jacked and blonde ?.
2 You already had a preset bias to begin with without you even realizing it.
3 you were to young at that age to remeber and our brain tends to remodel around the reality we construct so most likely you did not think that.
4 They heavily cherry pick faces with extreme make up and make them eye candy cause their so rear certain faces like my avi will be universally attractive universally cause their so rear beauty is rearity and eye you can tell at times eye candy but it is not like a squint man cop out it's like chris hemsworth and dudes like that the vast vast majority of males do not look like this.
 
Okay so point 1 we are in agreement okay.


(protruding eyes and sunken maxilla, retruded chin)

Could i have a citation on this claim pls i keep hearing you say this i'm gonna need a citation from an actual journal or a study something.

<<I remember when I saw white person in the first time of my life, the only media I have consumed were korean ones still i thought they were angelic beautiful.<<


1 Your culture already had these faces at the top to begin with even at young cartoons support the white standard you think it's a coincidence Naruto is tall white jacked and blonde ?.
2 You already had a preset bias to begin with without you even realizing it.
3 you were to young at that age to remeber and our brain tends to remodel around the reality we construct so most likely you did not think that.
4 They heavily cherry pick faces with extreme make up and make them eye candy cause their so rear certain faces like my avi will be universally attractive universally cause their so rear beauty is rearity and eye you can tell at times eye candy but it is not like a squint man cop out it's like chris hemsworth and dudes like that the vast vast majority of males do not look like this.
I mean sunken maxilla and retruded chin, projecting eyeballs out of orbital is just asian shit. Idk man I'm too lazy to find cite but I see hundreds of asians everyday.
20191203 115402

This is somewhat average. You cant really tell this is unattractive due to social conditioning.
1575736527589



I heard Asians had caucasoid skull many years ago.
We've got stuck in cyberian trap and developed cold adaption, thatz why our midface is long compared to other races.
I think that's why self hate is really big.
Instinct still remains but face has changed to ugly side.
 
you know he is right



If your talking to me i have backed up and cited what i have said can you actually use your fucking head god gave you that for a reason
I mean sunken maxilla and retruded chin, projecting eyeballs out of orbital is just asian shit. Idk man I'm too lazy to find cite but I see hundreds of asians everyday. View attachment 192399
This is somewhat average. You cant really tell this is unattractive due to social conditioning. View attachment 192400


I heard Asians had caucasoid skull many years ago.
We've got stuck in cyberian trap and developed cold adaption, thatz why our midface is long compared to other races.
I think that's why self hate is really big.
Instinct still remains but face has changed to ugly side.



That's an old cel bad posture to begin with he aged horrible bad example.


And like i said beauty is merely ratio's and symmetry that can be scientifically proven anything else is subjective even if you were to use a objective experiment to prove otherwise mainly cause we can objectively see intrinsically all cultures have different ideals for features (not including symmetry of harmony)


Also i don't understand why you are trying to fit in asians have a beautiful culture with beautiful women they are not ugly however as we can see with social conditioning and the spread of the universal of western standards asians are seen as ugly
 
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Didn’t read but gl is gl and you’ll see it str8 away.

Bones is bones never forget this, ethnicity is overrated. There’s gl ppl in all races, some more than others.
 
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Didn’t read but gl is gl and you’ll see it str8 away.

Bones is bones never forget this, ethnicity is overrated. There’s gl ppl in all races, some more than others.



Studies required and the only beauty scientifically proven is ratio's.

Know your right masculine feautres are preferred by 51 percent of women for short term lays long term wize they perfer feminine faces and that's not even to have a family just to have a girl friend
 
Didnt read but white mog
 
Didnt read but white mog


Another coping storm fag i iq mog you to utter oblivion even your own self hating helper agrees with me that with atleast 1 of my points
 
Studies required and the only beauty scientifically proven is ratio's.

Know your right masculine feautres are preferred by 51 percent of women for short term lays long term wize they perfer feminine faces and that's not even to have a family just to have a girl friend
All girls want the same thing whether it’s short term or long term it doesn’t matter, they’ll try and hope the guy is down for whatever they’re down for
 
All girls want the same thing whether it’s short term or long term it doesn’t matter, they’ll try and hope the guy is down for whatever they’re down for


their is a slight distinction short term is merely quick fuck and dump long term is a longer connection that is more important
 
If your talking to me i have backed up and cited what i have said can you actually use your fucking head god gave you that for a reason




That's an old cel bad posture to begin with he aged horrible bad example.


And like i said beauty is merely ratio's and symmetry that can be scientifically proven anything else is subjective even if you were to use a objective experiment to prove otherwise mainly cause we can objectively see intrinsically all cultures have different ideals for features (not including symmetry of harmony)


Also i don't understand why you are trying to fit in asians have a beautiful culture with beautiful women they are not ugly however as we can see with social conditioning and the spread of the universal of western standards asians are seen as ugly
The ratio you're talking about includes side profile. Studies have done in reconstructive medicine a lot of times. And they utterly fit in white phenotype. For example E-line

And what asians feel to slightly narrower nasolabial angle is really same with what whites feel. This cant be manipulated by media.
 
their is a slight distinction short term is merely quick fuck and dump long term is a longer connection that is more important

If girls want quick fucks —> nightclubs or tinder. Same for chads. You usually meet your LTR girl/man at workplace/skl/mutual friends/social circle
 
The ratio you're talking about includes side profile. Studies have done in reconstructive medicine a lot of times. And they utterly fit in white phenotype. For example E-line

And what asians feel to slightly narrower nasolabial angle is really same with what whites feel. This cant be manipulated by media.



Citation for that needed also in the study a oval shaped face over all will tend to have a oval shaped side jawline your side jaw line implies frontal pictures over all for instance if i had a 130 degree and a ante you would expect to find a western face from the front again it's all down to the culture which be manipulated and also the e line most likely again is being done within a western nation.
If girls want quick fucks —> nightclubs or tinder. Same for chads. You usually meet your LTR girl/man at workplace/skl/mutual friends/social circle



DEPENDS on the girl and even the 51 percent of girls used were from affluent nations and their was only a slight perference
 
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ethnics are ugly
 
Citation for that needed also in the study a oval shaped face over all will tend to have a oval shaped side jawline your side jaw line implies frontal pictures over all for instance if i had a 130 degree and a ante you would expect to find a western face from the front.
Human brain has developed to perceive face so precisely. Just go look up all the ideal proper ratios and shit about side profile. There are fuck tons of studies.
Clinical facial analysis cfa for orthodontists 21 638

This E line is being used in korean reconstructive surgery too but over 90percent of white population meet this standard naturally and maybe 3percent of asian.
 
Beauty has and always will be down to the beholder.

Reason I say this is cause whenyou grow up your mind starts to see what it likes from what society and parents tell it you doesn't come out of the womb thinking x person is beatifull.




In Caucasian populatlations ante faces are preferred standard of beauty meanwhile in East Asian ones it tend to be v shape feminine faces.


proof for western faces http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/PDF/634977779913771600.pdf


while eastern beauty standard perfer lighter skin and v shaped faces

View attachment 192287






Know Dont get me wrong their can be a commonality within what is attractive certain unique traits but the ultimately what is seen as average and what is beautiful is down to the system in power (sometimes it even transfers to other systems hence why jbw tends to some what work good example african women being pressureized to conform to white standards.)

View attachment 192295


Know on it's own it doesn't prove any thing like active cases of self hatred itself it does show poor self esteem for black women and men in a white majority country they explicitly chose the white dolls and the feautres of it why ? cause the system itself pressured them.



View attachment 192299

Adding on to this we can see that even when the featureless were met just being black skinned meaned people viewed them as less successful adding to the view that the white standard affects even non whites.

They also measured that the features that the African american women were looking for were met by the European ideal cause they were pressured to do so as we see from the self hate part.





So if beauty is subjective and we are molded by what we grow up around and the system in power implicitly imposes their own beauty onto other cultures like Africa and China.

Africa and China Especially are more likely to be incels within a white dominated system and sometimes the white system even leaches out onto other systems making the jbw phenom-onion possible.


So if your less likely to be incel in a country with your beauty system being more preferring your traits.


I reason then their fore it is impossible truly impossible for a white person to be incel in a white country or any where they literally are born with the world's keys handed to them.


Their system and their ways implicitly affect all others leading to white worship.


This I reason is why jbw works coping storm fags think its cause their more beautiful no its cause your system is at the top had the sasaniads been at the top middle eastern beauty would be seen as ideal.


Know coping fags will cite studies of children implicitly moving towards good looking people.


2 Things are not recorded however atleast not in the abstract, the race of the person itself and does their parents white worship 2 implicit biases which need to be addressed.When linked to the study itself it says generic average men and babies tend to move intrinsically towards father like figures the more masculine a face is the more baby would move towards them similarly for a feminine 1 so this does not prove beauty is objective rather that certain feautres give of the effect that you can protect me beauty and masculinity are not the same thing.

VAst majority of incels are ethnics because of the beauty system at the fucking top concurrently less incels are found in places where your traits are desired.

This is why only ethnics can be incels even a 4 out of 10 white will slay more just cause they have the upper edge in this system they constructed It's brutal tbqh.


So to cure inceldom and the jbw we need to actually build back pride again and to isolate from the white standard
It is already happening bro. Women are starting to go crazy for mulattos (lightskins) and bbcs now. It's already starting
 
It is already happening bro. Women are starting to go crazy for mulattos (lightskins) and bbcs now. It's already starting



Bro i wish i could say that was true but the white standard is world wide
 
Okay @reptiles I came back to this thread and read every word. This is what I think: I honestly think underneath some messy language this is actually a misunderstood high IQ thread. You make a lot of excellent points and you actually have solid references to back you up and your original thoughts on certain topics, like the baby attraction studies, are interesting and valuable contributions. There are some pieces where it is a bit difficult to understand you but I think I get what you're saying even in those places.
Thanks for posting this and its a shame that it will be misunderstood because you've been wrongfully pegged as a low IQ user partly due to poor English I think and also because it of course is well outside the Overton window of the site.
 
Bro i wish i could say that was true but the white standard is world wide
At least in most western countries, the white women are kicking into their Primal instincts and finding the African genes more attractive. I can especially say it for the generation Z. At my school, being white is a failo and the biggest slayers and most desired are the lightskins. All the white girls, latinas, and black girls want a lightskin
In eastern countries like Asia, they will still worship whites
 
Human brain has developed to perceive face so precisely. Just go look up all the ideal proper ratios and shit about side profile. There are fuck tons of studies.
View attachment 192413
This E line is being used in korean reconstructive surgery too but over 90percent of white population meet this standard naturally and maybe 3percent of asian.



Then your just reconfirming what i said earlier and nothing in this is intrinsic just that they feel pressured to meet this standard think about it what is surgery ? a facial reshaping to meet what ever society has deemed attractive this cirulcar reasoning.

1 e line is used in korean surgery.
2 The surgery used though already was made to prefit in with what the culture considered beautiful which is the white standard.
3 There fore asian faces are subhuman for not meeting the critera.
C1 the white standard is better

Issue you already started from the get go with a extrinsic standard the white standard think their must be some reason why china and korea chose those and we know our looks decide our fates and fortunes in these countries white faces are seen as beautiful cause of status so extrinsically white features are chosen.


A syllogism would do best as a rebuttal.

1 e line is used in asian surgeries.

2 asian countries tend to put a huge influnce on looks as it affects destiny.

3 the desired faces happen to be white traits which we know we cannot define scientically to be ideal.

4 Asians look for status and whites have the highest status.

5 their features are there fore desired.

6 nothing intrinsically ever made that beautiful you just worked off of a already man made system.

7 IF it's not intrinsic but rather extrinsic the white standard again is not intrinsically ideal.

C1 Their is nothing intrinsic about the white standard
At least in most western countries, the white women are kicking into their Primal instincts and finding the African genes more attractive. I can especially say it for the generation Z. At my school, being white is a failo and the biggest slayers and most desired are the lightskins. All the white girls, latinas, and black girls want a lightskin
In eastern countries like Asia, they will still worship whites



Oh maybe i'm too reclusive i just go based of the study
Okay @reptiles I came back to this thread and read every word. This is what I think: I honestly think underneath some messy language this is actually a misunderstood high IQ thread. You make a lot of excellent points and you actually have solid references to back you up and your original thoughts on certain topics, like the baby attraction studies, are interesting and valuable contributions. There are some pieces where it is a bit difficult to understand you but I think I get what you're saying even in those places.
Thanks for posting this and its a shame that it will be misunderstood because you've been wrongfully pegged as a low IQ user partly due to poor English I think and also because it of course is well outside the Overton window of the site.



My English is horrible but i tend to make good solid counter arguments.
 
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Then your just reconfirming what i said earlier and nothing in this is intrinsic just that they feel pressured to meet this standard think about it what is surgery ? a facial reshaping to meet what ever society has deemed attractive this cirulcar reasoning.

1 e line is used in korean surgery.
2 The surgery used though already was made to prefit in with what the culture considered beautiful which is the white standard.
3 There fore asian faces are subhuman.

Issue you already started from the get go with a extrinsic standard the white standard think their must be some reason why china and korea chose those and we know our looks decide our fates and fortunes in these countries white faces are seen as beautiful cause of status so extrinsically white features are chosen.


A syllogism would do best as a rebuttal.

1 e line is used in asian surgeries.

2 asian countries tend to put a huge influnce on looks as it affects destiny.

3 the desired faces happen to be white traits which we know we cannot define scientically to be ideal.

4 Asians look for status and whites have the highest status.

5 their features are there fore desired.

6 nothing intrinsically ever made that beautiful you just worked off of a already man made system.

7 IF it's not intrinsic but rather extrinsic the white standard again is not intrinsically ideal.

C1 Their is nothing intrinsic about the white standard




Oh maybe i'm too reclusive i just go based of the study
Bro, the study is to vague and non centered. What I mean by that is they studied a certain class of people (mainly middle class because of the time off and willingness to do the survey). Not taking in account the generations and past dating experiences. Maybe, over time, their preferences might've changed, or had a bad experiences. Take me for example, I used to prefer white women a lot, but now I prefer Latina and mulatto women. There could be many reasons why my preference changed, but it happened because of the world around me, and probably because of hormones too. You can never find out what a woman truly wants or her background. It's just impossible

but based on my real life experiences, mulattos are the most desired, at least in my location (US)
 
Bro, the study is to vague and non centered. What I mean by that is they studied a certain class of people (mainly middle class because of the time off and willingness to do the survey). Not taking in account the generations and past dating experiences. Maybe, over time, their preferences might've changed, or had a bad experiences. Take me for example, I used to prefer white women a lot, but now I prefer Latina and mulatto women. There could be many reasons why my preference changed, but it happened because of the world around me, and probably because of hormones too. You can never find out what a woman truly wants or her background. It's just impossible

but based on my real life experiences, mulattos are the most desired, at least in my location (US)



True and that is something myself didn't think off on the fly but this is atleast to give credence to the idea that beauty itself is a man made construct minus symmtery and harmony
 
True and that is something myself didn't think off on the fly but this is atleast to give credence to the idea that beauty itself is a man made construct minus symmtery and harmony
Yes, I agree brother. Beauty is man made. But sex appeal, is very much made by nature. I believe if beauty standards weren't real, then ethniks would be on top because sex appeal and natural attraction
 
Yes, I agree brother. Beauty is man made. But sex appeal, is very much made by nature. I believe if beauty standards weren't real, then ethniks would be on top because sex appeal and natural attraction



I don't know if sex appeal is natural though i think as long as your not subhuman your looks can be halod
 
Dimorphism is important
I don't know if sex appeal is natural though i think as long as your not subhuman your looks can be halod
Dimorphism is very important. That's why the lion with the darker mane always has more female options
 
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Dimorphism is important



Depends cause on neotanous faces or primary Asians femininity was preferred so it is down to culture or some biological thing but this much i know neotanous faces at the very minimum tend to favor feminine faces as long as their not white worshiping like east asians
 
I mean sunken maxilla and retruded chin, projecting eyeballs out of orbital is just asian shit. Idk man I'm too lazy to find cite but I see hundreds of asians everyday. View attachment 192399
This is somewhat average. You cant really tell this is unattractive due to social conditioning. View attachment 192400


I heard Asians had caucasoid skull many years ago.
We've got stuck in cyberian trap and developed cold adaption, thatz why our midface is long compared to other races.
I think that's why self hate is really big.
Instinct still remains but face has changed to ugly side.
My uncles chin on my moms side is super receding. Now that i paid attention. I dont know if its a asisn feature because i never paid attention.
 
My uncles chin on my moms side is super receding. Now that i paid attention. I dont know if its a asisn feature because i never paid attention.
It is asian feature as the picture I posted. Phenotypically asians just have receding chin

Then your just reconfirming what i said earlier and nothing in this is intrinsic just that they feel pressured to meet this standard think about it what is surgery ? a facial reshaping to meet what ever society has deemed attractive this cirulcar reasoning.

1 e line is used in korean surgery.
2 The surgery used though already was made to prefit in with what the culture considered beautiful which is the white standard.
3 There fore asian faces are subhuman for not meeting the critera.
C1 the white standard is better

Issue you already started from the get go with a extrinsic standard the white standard think their must be some reason why china and korea chose those and we know our looks decide our fates and fortunes in these countries white faces are seen as beautiful cause of status so extrinsically white features are chosen.


A syllogism would do best as a rebuttal.

1 e line is used in asian surgeries.

2 asian countries tend to put a huge influnce on looks as it affects destiny.

3 the desired faces happen to be white traits which we know we cannot define scientically to be ideal.

4 Asians look for status and whites have the highest status.

5 their features are there fore desired.

6 nothing intrinsically ever made that beautiful you just worked off of a already man made system.

7 IF it's not intrinsic but rather extrinsic the white standard again is not intrinsically ideal.

C1 Their is nothing intrinsic about the white standard




Oh maybe i'm too reclusive i just go based of the study




My English is horrible but i tend to make good solid counter arguments.
No lol, when the ratio or angle goes out of E line, asians just feel same feelings, like 'old' or something.
This is really interesting. This cant be manipulated by media.
+receding chin is asian phenotype and when chin recedes, it's more than its ugly, it makes certain vibe and I feel same shit with every white guys. Since for whites, projecting chin is biological beauty standards.
You're downplaying the power of instinct so much.
Anyways gooks were caucasoids few years ago. Can easily assume what's going on.
 
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It is asian feature as the picture I posted. Phenotypically asians just have receding chin


No lol, when the ratio or angle goes out of E line, asians just feel same feelings, like 'old' or something.
This is really interesting. This cant be manipulated by media.
+receding chin is asian phenotype and when chin recedes, it's more than its ugly, it makes certain vibe and I feel same shit with every white guys. Since for whites, projecting chin is biological beauty standards.
You're downplaying the power of instinct so much.
Anyways gooks were caucasoids few years ago. Can easily assume what's going on.



So i want to make sure i am steel manning your arguments so i don't straw man a single thing you say so you have a fair shot at counter rebuttal but i will respond to each point.

Argument 1
<<No lol, when the ratio or angle goes out of E line, asians just feel same feelings, like 'old' or something.
This is really interesting. This cant be manipulated by media.<<

Rebuttal 1 We only agreed on ratios symmtery and harmony decided what a good face was however 1 can have a narrow thin face a wide tall face or a medium thin face with a high face height but be symmetrical and harmonious.


Harmony when really boiled is just really your ipd your nose to lip ratio and other ratio's in the face not necessarily features. you can't make the argument that ante faces are inherently more symmetrical that is an incredibly dumb argument and it is a fallacy of equivocation you equivocating ratio's with features themselves .

infact referring the screen shot above they done a test when shown faces and all races had no preference for 1 over the other.




2ND rebuttal to point a this seems like a feelings based argument like usual.


Also feelings of what is beautiful and is not can be manipulated by media which you admit to with the social conditioning route it can even trick your dick to think it's hard for a tranny when it's not.

3RD rebuttal to point 1 lets define what type of science surgery is and that is psychological not necessarily biological.

Anything a surgeon can or will construct is only based off of the model in the society itself.

Science itself does not make objective claims about what beauty is or is not intrinsically cause science only observes it doesn't measure per say intrinsically what is beautiful and what is not.

A good example would be imagine deformed faces become the norm and everyone had surgery to look deformed you measuring what was attractive in that system is objective but it was never intrinsic to the concept of beauty itself.


especially since white features have been of recent the highest status in all standards we have seen from screen shots above your face literally decides your status in life .

So include this in the context of the 90 percent thing which i need citation for again but include this in and your already of the get go using a subjective standard which is implicitly affecting other standard the asian standard.

Here are 3 counter arguments to point a would love to hear your rebuttal


>>+receding chin is asian phenotype and when chin recedes, it's more than its ugly, it makes certain vibe and I feel same shit with every white<<


Citation needed for this claim and what argument does 1 have that asians are inherently disposed to recessive chins this is usually more to do with culture and again the whole diet thing i was talking about.


<<You're downplaying the power of instinct so much.
Anyways gooks were Caucasoid few years ago. Can easily assume what's going on.>>

No 1 cannot and think about it for just 1 second if biological determinism were true then why did foids not want chad jawline before 1900's why were fat features seen as ideal


1576324312248




1 This helps enforce the idea that even biological beauty is adaptable their is no intrinsic standard so again it is man made what is beautiful itself again just leads back to a man made standard which is measurable within the context of the system but it was never intrinsic to the concept of beauty itself.


2 your assuming biological determinism is true when their is no proof in fact their is a biological argument for free will




So Again leading back to looks argument even of the get go looks being objective if nature moves towards free will then their is no biological instinct causing us to be bound to it humans don't have instincts we have reflexes slight difference in that reflex simple means what is attractive is adaptable but not per say instrinsic to the person itself


Those are 2 counter rebuttals.


I probably won't respond for a day i legit fucking feel ill like a mother fucker
 
Last edited:
So i want to make sure i am steel manning your arguments so i don't straw man a single thing you say so you have a fair shot at counter rebuttal but i will respond to each point.

Argument 1
<<No lol, when the ratio or angle goes out of E line, asians just feel same feelings, like 'old' or something.
This is really interesting. This cant be manipulated by media.<<

Rebuttal 1 We only agreed on ratios symmtery and harmony decided what a good face was however 1 can have a narrow thin face a wide tall face or a medium thin face with a high face height but be symmetrical and harmonious.


Harmony when really boiled is just really your ipd your nose to lip ratio and other ratio's in the face not necessarily features. you can't make the argument that ante faces are inherently more symmetrical that is an incredibly dumb argument and it is a fallacy of equivocation you equivocating ratio's with features themselves .

infact referring the screen shot above they done a test when shown faces and all races had no preference for 1 over the other.




2ND rebuttal to point a this seems like a feelings based argument like usual.


Also feelings of what is beautiful and is not can be manipulated by media which you admit to with the social conditioning route it can even trick your dick to think it's hard for a tranny when it's not.

3RD rebuttal to point 1 lets define what type of science surgery is and that is psychological not necessarily biological.

Anything a surgeon can or will construct is only based off of the model in the society itself.

Science itself does not make objective claims about what beauty is or is not intrinsically cause science only observes it doesn't measure per say intrinsically what is beautiful and what is not.

A good example would be imagine deformed faces become the norm and everyone had surgery to look deformed you measuring what was attractive in that system is objective but it was never intrinsic to the concept of beauty itself.


especially since white features have been of recent the highest status in all standards we have seen from screen shots above your face literally decides your status in life .

So include this in the context of the 90 percent thing which i need citation for again but include this in and your already of the get go using a subjective standard which is implicitly affecting other standard the asian standard.

Here are 3 counter arguments to point a would love to hear your rebuttal


>>+receding chin is asian phenotype and when chin recedes, it's more than its ugly, it makes certain vibe and I feel same shit with every white<<


Citation needed for this claim and what argument does 1 have that asians are inherently disposed to recessive chins this is usually more to do with culture and again the whole diet thing i was talking about.


<<You're downplaying the power of instinct so much.
Anyways gooks were Caucasoid few years ago. Can easily assume what's going on.>>

No 1 cannot and think about it for just 1 second if biological determinism were true then why did foids not want chad jawline before 1900's why were fat features seen as ideal


View attachment 192730



1 This helps enforce the idea that even biological beauty is adaptable their is no intrinsic standard so again it is man made what is beautiful itself again just leads back to a man made standard which is measurable within the context of the system but it was never intrinsic to the concept of beauty itself.


2 your assuming biological determinism is true when their is no proof in fact their is a biological argument for free will




Again leading back to looks even of the get go being subjective if nature moves towards free will then their is no biological instinct causing us to be bound to it.


Those are 2 counter rebuttals.


I probably won't respond for a day i legit fucking feel ill like a mother fucker
Tldr??
 



Sorry man i tried to give solid counter arguments for each claim that the indepth this is just a quick rebuttal off the back


TLDR

Rebuttal 1.

1 harmony and ratio's are objective but all faces can be harmonious and symmetrical so their is still no objective standard.
2 this was later confirmed by a study referring back to the screen shots that no race perferred 1 face over a another and judge all equally provided they were harmonious and their ratio's were right not feautres.

Rebuttal 2.

1 This is a feelings based argument.
2 Social conditioning plays a huge role even impliclly to what is attractive and what is not.
3 surgeons cannot define intrinsic beauty rather just measure a beauty already implictly tied to a system and work from their.
4 Since the white standard is world and your looks decide your fate in these countries whiter features are more desired hence why off the get go your starting off with a subjective standard and projecting it as a instrinsic thing.

Rebuttal 3.

1 Your arguments for biological determinism makes no sense of the get go cause even the standard your using has changed over time.
2 In the 18th to 19th century being fat was considered a sign of sexual attractiveness again pointing to evolving beauty standards.
3 Your assuming biological determinism is true that is the only way 1 could arrive at looks being intrinsic however seeing from the study above we have a model to model how a organism might gain free will.
 
Sorry man i tried to give solid counter arguments for each claim that the indepth this is just a quick rebuttal off the back


TLDR

Rebuttal 1.

1 harmony and ratio's are objective but all faces can be harmonious and symmetrical so their is still no objective standard.
2 this was later confirmed by a study referring back to the screen shots that no race perferred 1 face over a another and judge all equally provided they were harmonious and their ratio's were right not feautres.

Rebuttal 2.

1 This is a feelings based argument.
2 Social conditioning plays a huge role even impliclly to what is attractive and what is not.
3 surgeons cannot define intrinsic beauty rather just measure a beauty already implictly tied to a system and work from their.
4 Since the white standard is world and your looks decide your fate in these countries whiter features are more desired hence why off the get go your starting off with a subjective standard and projecting it as a instrinsic thing.

Rebuttal 3.

1 Your arguments for biological determinism makes no sense of the get go cause even the standard your using has changed over time.
2 In the 18th to 19th century being fat was considered a sign of sexual attractiveness again pointing to evolving beauty standards.
3 Your assuming biological determinism is true that is the only way 1 could arrive at looks being intrinsic however seeing from the study above we have a model to model how a organism might gain free will.
The fat woman theory was just wealth signal, still we go for waist to hip ratio of 0.7 or something + recent study actually showed thin woman to certain degree is more fertile.
This can prove social condition actually. Cuz fat women were deemed attractive due to social conditioning. I dont really know if they were lusted over though. Unless there is a precise historical record.

You said there was no racial preference when they were all equally proportional(like thirds and shit)
But white people has much more chance fitting in proportion scale.
Asians phenotypically have higher chance to have longer midface or not meet horizontal facial 5th.
Chin and nasolabial angle etc from side profile are part of your subtle ratios and angles and asians have it much worse than white people meeting those standards due to phenotype.
 
The fat woman theory was just wealth signal, still we go for waist to hip ratio of 0.7 or something + recent study actually showed thin woman to certain degree is more fertile.
This can prove social condition actually. Cuz fat women were deemed attractive due to social conditioning. I dont really know if they were lusted over though. Unless there is a precise historical record.

You said there was no racial preference when they were all equally proportional(like thirds and shit)
But white people has much more chance fitting in proportion scale.
Asians phenotypically have higher chance to have longer midface or not meet horizontal facial 5th.
Chin and nasolabial angle etc from side profile are part of your subtle ratios and angles and asians have it much worse than white people meeting those standards due to phenotype.



Okay i will make some counter arguments.


<<The fat woman theory was just wealth signal, still we go for waist to hip ratio of 0.7 or something + recent study actually showed thin woman to certain degree is more fertile.
This can prove social condition actually. Cuz fat women were deemed attractive due to social conditioning. I dont really know if they were lusted over though. Unless there is a precise historical record.>>


1 I sighted fat men not women actually read my arguments from the long post this is why we have abstracts you don't get the full argument the main argument was atleast in 18 to 19th century being a fat man was considered attractive.

This was a rebuttal to the biological determinism model if beauty was biological like your saying being fat should not have been attractive this was the ideal male aesthetic back in the day.


<<You said there was no racial preference when they were all equally proportional(like thirds and shit)
But white people has much more chance fitting in proportion scale.>>


i made distinctions for what is scientifically considered attractive and what is a subjective standard down to societal consensus.

Their was no consensus on preferences between races for features which favored the white standard just that harmony and facial symmetry was perferred their is a slight difference the scientific thing is biologically objective we can see we perfer symmetrical faces what your arguing for though is what socitial consensus agrees on.


And comparing the 2 as if they were the same thing is a fallacy of eqivocation you already started of with 3 main assumptions you need to address.

1 Biological determinism is true.
2 certain facial features are objective.
3 Just cause it is used in surgery means it must be subjective these are 3 big blatant biases that need to be addressed.

<<Asians phenotypically have higher chance to have longer midface or not meet horizontal facial 5th.
Chin and nasolabial angle etc from side profile are part of your subtle ratios and angles and asians have it much worse than white people meeting those standards due to phenotype.>>

Again it is not a bad thing in asian cultures while whites are preferred implicitly androgynous faces overall are actually preferred which again does not make them any less attractive than westerners.



Cope that's heavily cherry picked
 
Okay i will make some counter arguments.


<<The fat woman theory was just wealth signal, still we go for waist to hip ratio of 0.7 or something + recent study actually showed thin woman to certain degree is more fertile.
This can prove social condition actually. Cuz fat women were deemed attractive due to social conditioning. I dont really know if they were lusted over though. Unless there is a precise historical record.>>


1 I sighted fat men not women actually read my arguments from the long post this is why we have abstracts you don't get the full argument the main argument was atleast in 18 to 19th century being a fat man was considered attractive.

This was a rebuttal to the biological determinism model if beauty was biological like your saying being fat should not have been attractive this was the ideal male aesthetic back in the day.


<<You said there was no racial preference when they were all equally proportional(like thirds and shit)
But white people has much more chance fitting in proportion scale.>>


i made distinctions for what is scientifically considered attractive and what is a subjective standard down to societal consensus.

Their was no consensus on preferences between races for features which favored the white standard just that harmony and facial symmetry was perferred their is a slight difference the scientific thing is biologically objective we can see we perfer symmetrical faces what your arguing for though is what socitial consensus agrees on.


And comparing the 2 as if they were the same thing is a fallacy of eqivocation you already started of with 3 main assumptions you need to address.

1 Biological determinism is true.
2 certain facial features are objective.
3 Just cause it is used in surgery means it must be subjective these are 3 big blatant biases that need to be addressed.

<<Asians phenotypically have higher chance to have longer midface or not meet horizontal facial 5th.
Chin and nasolabial angle etc from side profile are part of your subtle ratios and angles and asians have it much worse than white people meeting those standards due to phenotype.>>

Again it is not a bad thing in asian cultures while whites are preferred implicitly androgynous faces overall are actually preferred which again does not make them any less attractive than westerners.




Cope that's heavily cherry picked
You sometimes say asians have their own standard and sometimes asian standards are heavily impacted by white standards.
So it's just circular reasoning.
I might wanna have decent convo but man your English is hard to read and I'm busy, can't really put many effort in this.
 
You sometimes say asians have their own standard and sometimes asian standards are heavily impacted by white standards.
So it's just circular reasoning.
I might wanna have decent convo but man your English is hard to read and I'm busy, can't really put many effort in this.

<<You sometimes say asians have their own standard and sometimes asian standards are heavily impacted by white standards.>>


Problem 1 i don't assume the Asian standard to be true just that beauty itself at-least in the way your describing it is not objective i will lay out my syllogism.

1 in the asian system oval and feminine faces are said to be the most preferred faces i base this of off study 1 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6280816/)


2 FOllowing on from premise in the western standard however ante faces and classical western masculine faces are said to be the most preferred (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/PDF/634977779913771600.pdf study 2)


3 following on from study 1 In Asia your looks decide your fate and in some sense status as well.

4 Following on from premise 3 what is the most wanted status is influenced by social conditioning that can be many things social media
work parents society

Here is an example of social media having an influnce.


(Notice this has limitations i will admit the numbers can be smaller and also added onto that it was an online study but if someone knows better than anyone if they have been manipulated, atleast as reasonable possible It's the individual. Even females found their perceptions of males and whom they were attracted to changed.)

Here is the screen shot of the conclusion.

1576333011306







5 Following from premise 4 Humans are inherently influenced by social conditioning () for further proof.


6 following on from premise 5 this conditioning leads onto to other systems as from premise 4 we could see them merely using it affected whom they were attracted to and this study done here

https://www.academia.edu/29504192/T...cted_in_Toni_Morrison_s_Novel_The_Bluest_Eye_


7 following on from premise 6 Asian's then implicitly follow what system is considered most attractive thanks to social conditioning and the out reach of the white standard onto other cultures this is subjective.


8 following on from premise 7 Scientific attractiveness however is objective however that just follows rules of ratio's and harmony which any face can have regardless of shape so this 1 is objective refer study 1 no faces when the scientific standard was being used preferred 1 race over the other.


9 Following from premise 8 if there their are dinstictions critical ones between scientific and white types of attractiveness again refer to study 1/2 both these are subjective for the subjective argument and premise 8 for the objective argument from science itself and the universal beauty ratio's then 1 is subjective and the other is not then the 1 you are ascribing to be objective is really subjective and down to social conditing premise 4/5


10 Following on from premise 9 since 1 system is subjective the other 1 is not to equivocate and say both are the same is a fallacy of equivocation.


11 following on from premise 10 The standard you are using to measure objective beauty already has a implicit bias influenced by social conditioning again refer to study from premise 4 and vedio from premise 5.


12 Following on from premise 11 if Nothing from that study you sighted intrinsically suggests this is what people naturally intrinsically desire rather that they were socially conditioned to desire that following from premise 10 then beauty itself is still subjective atleast in the context your using it in.


13 then following on from premise 12 if what your sighting is still subjective and what i am sighting is objective and is considered objectively true scientically atleast. Then your arguing for is not objective and asians are not inherentlly uglier but are victims of social conditioning.


C1 Following on from the final premise then Beauty in itself is not a intrinsic thing seeing as the 2 standards deviate and attraction isn't static following from the idea of social conditioning and implicit influnces onto other races from p4 to p5 their fore we can conclude Asian's over all are not phenotypically uglier.

Their is no circular reasoning in here i don't assume a premise 1 or 2 to be true this is literally what is measured if i was assuming it then you could technically have a point but i'm not i am following argument 1 to 13 through.


I would love to hear a rebuttal
 
Beauty has and always will be down to the beholder.

Reason I say this is cause whenyou grow up your mind starts to see what it likes from what society and parents tell it you doesn't come out of the womb thinking x person is beatifull.




In Caucasian populatlations ante faces are preferred standard of beauty meanwhile in East Asian ones it tend to be v shape feminine faces.


proof for western faces http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/PDF/634977779913771600.pdf


while eastern beauty standard perfer lighter skin and v shaped faces

View attachment 192287






Know Dont get me wrong their can be a commonality within what is attractive certain unique traits but the ultimately what is seen as average and what is beautiful is down to the system in power (sometimes it even transfers to other systems hence why jbw tends to some what work good example african women being pressureized to conform to white standards.)

View attachment 192295


Know on it's own it doesn't prove any thing like active cases of self hatred itself it does show poor self esteem for black women and men in a white majority country they explicitly chose the white dolls and the feautres of it why ? cause the system itself pressured them.



View attachment 192299

Adding on to this we can see that even when the featureless were met just being black skinned meaned people viewed them as less successful adding to the view that the white standard affects even non whites.

They also measured that the features that the African american women were looking for were met by the European ideal cause they were pressured to do so as we see from the self hate part.





So if beauty is subjective and we are molded by what we grow up around and the system in power implicitly imposes their own beauty onto other cultures like Africa and China.

Africa and China Especially are more likely to be incels within a white dominated system and sometimes the white system even leaches out onto other systems making the jbw phenom-onion possible.


So if your less likely to be incel in a country with your beauty system being more preferring your traits.


I reason then their fore it is impossible truly impossible for a white person to be incel in a white country or any where they literally are born with the world's keys handed to them.


Their system and their ways implicitly affect all others leading to white worship.


This I reason is why jbw works coping storm fags think its cause their more beautiful no its cause your system is at the top had the sasaniads been at the top middle eastern beauty would be seen as ideal.


Know coping fags will cite studies of children implicitly moving towards good looking people.


2 Things are not recorded however atleast not in the abstract, the race of the person itself and does their parents white worship 2 implicit biases which need to be addressed.When linked to the study itself it says generic average men and babies tend to move intrinsically towards father like figures the more masculine a face is the more baby would move towards them similarly for a feminine 1 so this does not prove beauty is objective rather that certain feautres give of the effect that you can protect me beauty and masculinity are not the same thing.

VAst majority of incels are ethnics because of the beauty system at the fucking top concurrently less incels are found in places where your traits are desired.

This is why only ethnics can be incels even a 4 out of 10 white will slay more just cause they have the upper edge in this system they constructed It's brutal tbqh.


So to cure inceldom and the jbw we need to actually build back pride again and to isolate from the white standard

Congrats on your dissertation I didn't read.

You now have a PhD in cope
 
Congrats on your dissertation I didn't read.

You now have a PhD in cope




At-least i have a brain that is something more than 99 percent of people on here can claim to have
 
<<You sometimes say asians have their own standard and sometimes asian standards are heavily impacted by white standards.>>


Problem 1 i don't assume the Asian standard to be true just that beauty itself at-least in the way your describing it is not objective i will lay out my syllogism.

1 in the asian system oval and feminine faces are said to be the most preferred faces i base this of off study 1 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6280816/)


2 FOllowing on from premise in the western standard however ante faces and classical western masculine faces are said to be the most preferred (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/PDF/634977779913771600.pdf study 2)


3 following on from study 1 In Asia your looks decide your fate and in some sense status as well.

4 Following on from premise 3 what is the most wanted status is influenced by social conditioning that can be many things social media
work parents society

Here is an example of social media having an influnce.


(Notice this has limitations i will admit the numbers can be smaller and also added onto that it was an online study but if someone knows better than anyone if they have been manipulated, atleast as reasonable possible It's the individual. Even females found their perceptions of males and whom they were attracted to changed.)

Here is the screen shot of the conclusion.

View attachment 192806






5 Following from premise 4 Humans are inherently influenced by social conditioning () for further proof.


6 following on from premise 5 this conditioning leads onto to other systems as from premise 4 we could see them merely using it affected whom they were attracted to and this study done here

https://www.academia.edu/29504192/T...cted_in_Toni_Morrison_s_Novel_The_Bluest_Eye_


7 following on from premise 6 Asian's then implicitly follow what system is considered most attractive thanks to social conditioning and the out reach of the white standard onto other cultures this is subjective.


8 following on from premise 7 Scientific attractiveness however is objective however that just follows rules of ratio's and harmony which any face can have regardless of shape so this 1 is objective refer study 1 no faces when the scientific standard was being used preferred 1 race over the other.


9 Following from premise 8 if there their are dinstictions critical ones between scientific and white types of attractiveness again refer to study 1/2 both these are subjective for the subjective argument and premise 8 for the objective argument from science itself and the universal beauty ratio's then 1 is subjective and the other is not then the 1 you are ascribing to be objective is really subjective and down to social conditing premise 4/5


10 Following on from premise 9 since 1 system is subjective the other 1 is not to equivocate and say both are the same is a fallacy of equivocation.


11 following on from premise 10 The standard you are using to measure objective beauty already has a implicit bias influenced by social conditioning again refer to study from premise 4 and vedio from premise 5.


12 Following on from premise 11 if Nothing from that study you sighted intrinsically suggests this is what people naturally intrinsically desire rather that they were socially conditioned to desire that following from premise 10 then beauty itself is still subjective atleast in the context your using it in.


13 then following on from premise 12 if what your sighting is still subjective and what i am sighting is objective and is considered objectively true scientically atleast. Then your arguing for is not objective and asians are not inherentlly uglier but are victims of social conditioning.


C1 Following on from the final premise then Beauty in itself is not a intrinsic thing seeing as the 2 standards deviate and attraction isn't static following from the idea of social conditioning and implicit influnces onto other races from p4 to p5 their fore we can conclude Asian's over all are not phenotypically uglier.

Their is no circular reasoning in here i don't assume a premise 1 or 2 to be true this is literally what is measured if i was assuming it then you could technically have a point but i'm not i am following argument 1 to 13 through.


I would love to hear a rebuttal

A9c
 



I have provided the syllogisms as to why this is not circular reasoning and you equivocating ratio's to white features is a subtle equation fallacy that is why you thought i was making this fallacy to begin with you were assuming they were both the same thing
 

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