Discussion A warning about Finasteride, Neurosteroids, and Alzheimer's disease.

[Deleted member 18361]

Doesn't really concern me that much hopping off fin the first chance I get, just maintaining my hair until new treatments come out.

It’s good that you researched it since this is something that you seem to be genetically prone to.

What about getting allopregnanolone exogenously? How long does it take to clear up amyloid beta?

there wont be a new treatment

they’d have to post a whole study stating they were wrong about dht and they been poisoning niggas jfl

 

[Deleted member 20914]

we dont see elevated cases of allzheimer in güevedoces (people born with 5α-reductase deficiency)

Important brain chemical that gets rid of bad protein that causes Alzheimer's, I wonder what will happen if I remove this chemical that clears my brain of this protein! Well I feel good after 5 years of use, It must be all good!

 

[Deleted member 20631]

Those supplements won't produce DHT, the so called 'trash hormone'

They’ll increase semen production. There’s no point arguing you made your stance and you have a valid reason not to take fin, I don’t. I’m gonna stay on fin until better treatment is out it’s retarded not to.

 

[Deleted member 20631]

there wont be a new treatment

they’d have to post a whole study stating they were wrong about dht and they been poisoning niggas jfl

We’re gonna see, until then I’m not becoming a baldcel

 

[Deleted member 20914]

They’ll increase semen production. There’s no point arguing you made your stance and you have a valid reason not to take fin, I don’t. I’m gonna stay on fin until better treatment is out it’s retarded not to.

That is fair, honestly I don't care too much about DHT, if it only impacted DHT i would take it.

 

[Deleted member 20914]

We’re gonna see, until then I’m not becoming a baldcel

What norwood are you currently?

 

[Deleted member 20631]

What norwood are you currently?

Norwood 1, dads side has very good hair genetics only started receding in his 30s and I have a brother and uncles with 0 balding. Mother’s side is hyper aggressive balding with diffuse thinning, cousin on mother’s side legit went from long thick hair to NW5 in a single year after he turned 20.

I can’t risk it I wish it didn’t inhibit neurosteroids and only inhibited DHT but it is what it is.

I haven’t gotten any sides except lowered semen volume and it was harder for me to get hard the first week but that went away. Hopefully I don’t get some fucked up side like insomnia or ED.

 

[Deleted member 20914]

Norwood 1, dads side has very good hair genetics only started receding in his 30s and I have a brother and uncles with 0 balding. Mother’s side is hyper aggressive balding with diffuse thinning, cousin on mother’s side legit went from long thick hair to NW5 in a single year after he turned 20.

I can’t risk it I wish it didn’t inhibit neurosteroids and only inhibited DHT but it is what it is.

I haven’t gotten any sides except lowered semen volume and it was harder for me to get hard the first week but that went away. Hopefully I don’t get some fucked up side like insomnia or ED.

You would probably be fine without it for a while, but I guess better safe than sorry.

Like I said, life is all about risk management.

 

[Deleted member 20631]

You would probably be fine without it for a while, but I guess better safe than sorry.

Like I said, life is all about risk management.

Yeah, I’m staying on fin till atleast 25, enough time to enjoy my prime and for better treatment to be out. I’ve been considering taking exogenous neurosteroids, but I’d have to find the equivalent dose my body would be making naturally. If I can dose allopregnanolone a few times a week without any side effects or issues I think that’s ideal.

Nvm nigga I just checked the price this shit is FUCKED. Over if you aren’t a richcel

 

[Deleted member 20914]

Yeah, I’m staying on fin till atleast 25, enough time to enjoy my prime and for better treatment to be out. I’ve been considering taking exogenous neurosteroids, but I’d have to find the equivalent dose my body would be making naturally. If I can dose allopregnanolone a few times a week without any side effects or issues I think that’s ideal.

Another study (in mice) showed that TOO MUCH allo actually worsened amyloid beta load, so yeah.

 

[max_frisch]

Has that even been studied lmao

dont you think it would be noticable if a high percentage of that people would have allzheimer? these people have literally 0 dht (thats way less of what people who take 5mg daily like your in linked study have..)

if there would be a noticable difference in alzheimer rate compared to general population it wouldnt have been noted by now

it seems to me that alzheimer is an extrem complex disease which seems to be highly genetic on top of that. still not fully understood. they thought some protein causes it until the study where it was based turned out fake

Allegations of fabricated research undermine key Alzheimer’s theory

A six-month investigation by Science magazine uncovered evidence that images in the much-cited study, published 16 years ago in the journal Nature, may have been doctored.

www.nbcnews.com

you know what i suspect?

a person with zero history of alzheimer can inject finasteride daily but will still have way lower risk of getting alzheimer compared to a high dht person whose grandparents live in gaga-alzheimer land…

so like you said, its about risk management. everyone needs to make that decision by his own

 

[Deleted member 20914]

dont you think it would be noticable if a high percentage of that people would have allzheimer? these people have literally 0 dht (thats way less of what people who take 5mg daily like your in linked study have..)

if there would be a noticable difference in alzheimer rate compared to general population it wouldnt have been noted by now

it seems to me that alzheimer is an extrem complex disease which seems to be highly genetic on top of that. still not fully understood. they thought some protein causes it until the study where it was based turned out fake

Allegations of fabricated research undermine key Alzheimer’s theory

A six-month investigation by Science magazine uncovered evidence that images in the much-cited study, published 16 years ago in the journal Nature, may have been doctored.

www.nbcnews.com

you know what i suspect?

a person with zero history of alzheimer can inject finasteride daily but will still have way lower risk of getting alzheimer compared to a high dht person whose grandparents live in gaga-alzheimer land…

so like you said, its about risk management. everyone needs to make that decision by his own

that is probably true, there will be people who take it and will be completely fine most likely. But if you might be at a genetic risk I think it is better to avoid finasteride, and around 25% of people are at least 2-3x at increased risk of AD due to having APOE4 allele, around 2% of people (that is still 2 in every 100 people that read this) have around a 11x increased risk, as they have two copies of APOE4 allele. There is no way of knowing this without genetic testing like 23andme.

Everything points to Amyloid-beta causing AD. People with down syndrome get AD almost always, why? Because they have an extra chromosome 21 which encodes APP (amyloid-precursor-protein) which means their brain produces much more amyloid-beta. I guess that is just a coincidence. Or the fact that people who have rare mutations in APP which causes them to produce more amyloid-beta get Alzheimer's for certain.

I am sure there have been shady studies, but that doesn't dispute the fact that the overwhelming majority of research points to amyloid.

Drugs are being developed such as aducanumab, lecanemab, etc. But the reason these drugs have failed so massively is because they try and remove amyloid from the brain once the damage by amyloid has already been done. Unfortunately, it would be too costly to put people on these drugs 20-30 years in advance and see if they get AD vs controls. You wouldn't prescribe statins to someone whilst they are having a heart attack, you must intervene earlier.

 

[max_frisch]

that is probably true, there will be people who take it and will be completely fine most likely. But if you might be at a genetic risk I think it is better to avoid finasteride, and around 25% of people are at least 2-3x at increased risk of AD due to having APOE4 allele, around 2% of people (that is still 2 in every 100 people that read this) have around a 11x increased risk, as they have two copies of APOE4 allele. There is no way of knowing this without genetic testing like 23andme.

Everything points to Amyloid-beta causing AD. People with down syndrome get AD almost always, why? Because they have an extra chromosome 21 which encodes APP (amyloid-precursor-protein) which means their brain produces much more amyloid-beta. I guess that is just a coincidence. Or the fact that people who have rare mutations in APP which causes them to produce more amyloid-beta get Alzheimer's for certain.

I am sure there have been shady studies, but that doesn't dispute the fact that the overwhelming majority of research points to amyloid.

Drugs are being developed such as aducanumab, lecanemab, etc. But the reason these drugs have failed so massively is because they try and remove amyloid from the brain once the damage by amyloid has already been done. Unfortunately, it would be too costly to put people on these drugs 20-30 years in advance and see if they get AD vs controls. You wouldn't prescribe statins to someone whilst they are having a heart attack, you must intervene earlier.

indeed

 

[Deleted member 20914]

Given that this thread is kind of dying I would like to close by saying:

What I have said is speculation based on my somewhat elementary understanding of the disease, maybe finasteride will increase your risk, or, maybe it will not. Who the fuck knows, make your own judgements. For me its not worth the worry and potential risk increase.

God bless

 

[DHTrash]

Lmao what a fin and T coper

DHT is essensial to make you think better because it will inhibit estrogen to be produced thus reducing cortisol in your system. This is why not only very important in puberty but DHT is also impoertant for your whole body. Being estrogenic will make u a literal degenerates.

Got some zources on that brozzer?
Or is this another PFS "muh brainfog" scare monger
Taking fin will increase testosterone by 15%. Yes, a small % of which will aromatize to estrogen which can cause gyno in like 1 in 10,000 ppl (who are genetically predisposed to having a fucked e/t balance)

 

[Deleted member 20914]

Got some zources on that brozzer?
Or is this another PFS "muh brainfog" scare monger
Taking fin will increase testosterone by 15%. Yes, a small % of which will aromatize to estrogen which can cause gyno in like 1 in 10,000 ppl (who are genetically predisposed to having a fucked e/t balance)

Keep taking finasteride, no one cares.

 

[TITUS]

Who cares, i rather have hair.

 

[Deleted member 20914]

Who cares, i rather have hair.

Do you know what Alzheimer's disease is? I doubt you'd rather have hair than AD.

If you are saying, I'd rather increase my risk and keep my hair, then that is an argument to be had.

 

[TITUS]

Do you know what Alzheimer's disease is? I doubt you'd rather have hair than AD.

If you are saying, I'd rather increase my risk and keep my hair, then that is an argument to be had.

Having no hair is worse than alzheimers.

 

[Deleted member 20914]

Having no hair is worse than alzheimers.

You are either trolling or retarded

 

[Deleted member 20631]

Another study (in mice) showed that TOO MUCH allo actually worsened amyloid beta load, so yeah.

Yo this is the prolactin drug I was talking about.
Prolactin(that’s produced in your hair follicles) has something to do with keeping the hairs permanently dormant.



This post as well

 

[max_frisch]

Given that this thread is kind of dying I would like to close by saying:

What I have said is speculation based on my somewhat elementary understanding of the disease, maybe finasteride will increase your risk, or, maybe it will not. Who the fuck knows, make your own judgements. For me its not worth the worry and potential risk increase.

God bless

if you have history of dementia in your family you could try oral minoxidil and/or ru

or you could use a very low dose of finasteridr or change to topical finasteride. keep in mind these studies were done with 5mg a day. especially topical decreases serum dht way less.

and you could just do it like a couple of years. like if you are balding with 20 until 30. then drop it.

and ofc people could just go the transplanr route wlthout medis. in case it end up super shit wear a wig or get smp all over

and ofc there is always the natural shaving route.

there are still options

 

[twilight]

Its not debunked, actually watch the video. The graph he shows even indicates that 5ar in the brain is reduced, but he shrugs it off.

I need hair what to do @pashtun help im on fin

it’s the 86th most prescribed drug in america with over 30 years of peer reviewed research and long term studies, just keep taking it.

 

[Deleted member 18361]

I wonder why everyone defending Fin is so bitchy

 

[Deleted member 20914]

i would rather use compounds I produced in my washing machine than fin

 

[longjohnmong]

my mom has alzheimers. fucking sucks.

 

[Deleted member 20914]

my mom has alzheimers. fucking sucks.

I'm so sorry to hear that, I know, definitely the worst common disease out there, totally devastating for the whole family

 

[DHTrash]

Keep taking finasteride, no one cares.

I will because I don't want to lose my hair. I'm just calling yours and others bullshit out, so other people dont get fear mongered and end up as ugly bald slapheads. If you're already struggling with sex and are on the non-attractive side of the spectrum, you cannot afford being bald AND ugly in this day and age of Tiktok unfortunately..

It's not a dangerous drug. And no I'm not saying that because I'm promoting (((Pharma))), because I believe there are drugs that don't deserve to be on the market (like the satanic Covid vaccines)

 

[Deleted member 20914]

I will because I don't want to lose my hair. I'm just calling yours and others bullshit out, so other people dont get fear mongered and end up as ugly bald slapheads. If you're already struggling with sex and are on the non-attractive side of the spectrum, you cannot afford being bald AND ugly in this day and age of Tiktok unfortunately..

It's not a dangerous drug. And no I'm not saying that because I'm promoting (((Pharma))), because I believe there are drugs that don't deserve to be on the market (like the satanic Covid vaccines)

How is what I said bullshit

Finasteride makes it literally impossible for the body to produce Allopregnanolone? Why?

To make allopregnanolone you require the conversion of progesterone to 5a-dihydroprogesterone:

Then, 5a-dihydroprogesterone is converted into Allopregnalone by an enzyme called 3a-HSD:

However, if you block the 5AR enzyme you cannot get 5a-dihydroprogesterone, which is required to make allopregnanolone, and thus you get no allopregnanolone.

Maybe allopregnanolone isn't needed by the body and you will be completely fine when you are 70 years old, or maybe it is actually kinda important, time will tell.

 

[ShineBright]

Your first source is a study from a small government-funded group in the Czech Republic, which isn't exactly known for being a medical powerhouse.

• It had a sample size of only twenty >50-yr old men with benign prostate cancer.
• They administered 500% the daily finasteride anyone takes for hair loss.
• Median DHT dropped by 88.45% (1.048 to 0.121), while allopregnalone dropped by 73.58% (0.159 to 0.042)

The differential statistics in the figure you sourced are misleading at best. Check the image you sourced:

Look closely and it seems like someone fat-fingered the Δ(II-I%) for allopregnalone. You can't drop 300% in anything. Except maybe IQ points after an extended time on a certain looksmaxing forum. Without the raw data for this study, these results are basically useless because the authors portrayed them so poorly. Even with the raw data, it's a shit sample size.

Your second source is, well, just a description of allopregnalone & its role in Alzheimer's. Which is an undeniable correlation: "Allopregnanolone levels are reduced in temporal cortex in patients with AD (median 2.68 ng/g, n=40) compared to control subjects (median 5.64 ng/g, n=41)" (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20488256/)

So about a 50% lower level of allo in those with AD. Low allo levels are also seen in depressed patients. Finasteride is known to lower dopaminergic activity.

To demonstrate how the endocrine system is so complicated, if we accepted the findings from your first source, we would linearly speculate that at a normal treatment of finasteride at 1mg/day, we would expect to see a median allo decrease of 15%, and a median DHT decrease of 17%. Which obviously is inaccurate because 1mg fin lowers DHT by about 70%. I can't find any good studies for 1mg fin effects on allo, but it's known that finasteride primarily affects the type II isoform of 5ar, while allo is affected by the type I isoform.

This is simply too complex of an issue to use the first source as any kind of guideline. And for this matter, no study is acceptable except a well-controlled, long-term study on the outcomes of men taking 1mg/day fin. Which I'm sure this site will eventually be a gold mine for qualified subjects.

TLDR, fucking with your hormones is always a retarded idea. Your endocrine system is an extremely complicated, poorly understood house of cards that is really best left unfucked with. Unless you'd literally kys if you went bald, then by all means.

Topical fin + minox, while still somewhat systemic, is a much better health-conscious option than oral fin.

 

[Buci]

having hair with alzheimer is better than being bald and remembering all the brutal moments

No one will fuck you either way. You'll still be weird outcast loser, why sacrifice your brain for nothing

 

[Buci]

Having no hair is worse than alzheimers.

Sorry, you're a fucking idiot. You'll still be beta incel loser even with hair, you'll just get to experience true hell before you die

 

[Whatashame]

Your first source is a study from a small government-funded group in the Czech Republic, which isn't exactly known for being a medical powerhouse.

• It had a sample size of only twenty >50-yr old men with benign prostate cancer.
• They administered 500% the daily finasteride anyone takes for hair loss.
• Median DHT dropped by 88.45% (1.048 to 0.121), while allopregnalone dropped by 73.58% (0.159 to 0.042)

The differential statistics in the figure you sourced are misleading at best. Check the image you sourced:
View attachment 1957233
Look closely and it seems like someone fat-fingered the Δ(II-I%) for allopregnalone. You can't drop 300% in anything. Except maybe IQ points after an extended time on a certain looksmaxing forum. Without the raw data for this study, these results are basically useless because the authors portrayed them so poorly. Even with the raw data, it's a shit sample size.

Your second source is, well, just a description of allopregnalone & its role in Alzheimer's. Which is an undeniable correlation: "Allopregnanolone levels are reduced in temporal cortex in patients with AD (median 2.68 ng/g, n=40) compared to control subjects (median 5.64 ng/g, n=41)" (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20488256/)

So about a 50% lower level of allo in those with AD. Low allo levels are also seen in depressed patients. Finasteride is known to lower dopaminergic activity.

To demonstrate how the endocrine system is so complicated, if we accepted the findings from your first source, we would linearly speculate that at a normal treatment of finasteride at 1mg/day, we would expect to see a median allo decrease of 15%, and a median DHT decrease of 17%. Which obviously is inaccurate because 1mg fin lowers DHT by about 70%. I can't find any good studies for 1mg fin effects on allo, but it's known that finasteride primarily affects the type II isoform of 5ar, while allo is affected by the type I isoform.

This is simply too complex of an issue to use the first source as any kind of guideline. And for this matter, no study is acceptable except a well-controlled, long-term study on the outcomes of men taking 1mg/day fin. Which I'm sure this site will eventually be a gold mine for qualified subjects.

TLDR, fucking with your hormones is always a retarded idea. Your endocrine system is an extremely complicated, poorly understood house of cards that is really best left unfucked with. Unless you'd literally kys if you went bald, then by all means.

Topical fin + minox, while still somewhat systemic, is a much better health-conscious option than oral fin.

How much fin take? and you think the best it to take everyday? Im 19 and the hair is starting receding fast

 

[Deleted member 23554]

No one will fuck you either way. You'll still be weird outcast loser, why sacrifice your brain for nothing

speak for yourself grandpa

 

[max_frisch]

How much fin take? and you think the best it to take everyday? Im 19 and the hair is starting receding fast

he recommended topical in the end



if you want to make a 0,025% solution mix 60ml minoxidil with 15mg of finasteride, then 1ml of that solution will contain 0.25mg of finasteride. that equals 0,025% bc the conversation rate of mg to ml in this case is rougly ml=mg/1000 (im not a chemist though)

if you need more ml to cover your head (eg you diffuse thin all over the norwood 5 area) adjust the dosage accordingly



personally im not totally convinced of topical though bc

1. these studies done on it always measure the serum concentration of dht after 1 week or so. and even though considering the half life pf finasteride i think there is a certain built up in the body over time which means that topical finasteride eventually goes systematic. would like to see a study on serum dht after 1 year

2. effort/room for mistakes: you need to apply it daily and make sure to hit the whole area affected by balding consistently. every square centimeter

3. risks to your surroundings: if someone touched your hair the person can absorb some of it, this is a very big nono for example if you live with a pregnant woman flr example

 

[Oberyn]

hair > memory

This

 

[Deleted member 18361]

I will because I don't want to lose my hair. I'm just calling yours and others bullshit out, so other people dont get fear mongered and end up as ugly bald slapheads. If you're already struggling with sex and are on the non-attractive side of the spectrum, you cannot afford being bald AND ugly in this day and age of Tiktok unfortunately..

It's not a dangerous drug. And no I'm not saying that because I'm promoting (((Pharma))), because I believe there are drugs that don't deserve to be on the market (like the satanic Covid vaccines)

I was balding and now im taking 10mg dht

legit nw 0, i can send in dms if u want

 

[Kroker]

Honestly just use minox and if you're lucky enough to maintain/regrow for the upcoming 5 years when there will be a safer drug than finasteride

 

[Kroker]

I was balding and now im taking 10mg dht

legit nw 0, i can send in dms if u want

Lol even Zinc makes me shed... Wtf are you on about?

 

[Oberyn]

Honestly just use minox and if you're lucky enough to maintain/regrow for the upcoming 5 years when there will be a safer drug than finasteride

Finasteride is already safe drug

 

[Deleted member 18361]

Lol even Zinc makes me shed... Wtf are you on about?

Obviously zinc is something you can legitimately overdose

 

[Deleted member 18361]

Lol even Zinc makes me shed... Wtf are you on about?

Jfl at me reaving the benefits of apex male hormones while experiencing no side effects that they have said to occur once taking it


Shitty world and their selfish attempts to make it even shittier

 

[Zain202]

I use finpecia 1mg and it helps with my fucking baldness

 

[Kroker]

Finasteride is already safe drug

I wrote it in wrong way, I meant safer for people who experience sides on fin.

Jfl at me reaving the benefits of apex male hormones while experiencing no side effects that they have said to occur once taking it


Shitty world and their selfish attempts to make it even shittier

Good for you buddy

Obviously zinc is something you can legitimately overdose

Yeah definitely when I take it a lot I experience the shed

 

[Deleted member 18361]

Good for you buddy

Wasn’t always like this lil nigga

Im a genetic failure who is prone to acne, balding, and skin aging

 

[Deleted member 20914]

Your first source is a study from a small government-funded group in the Czech Republic, which isn't exactly known for being a medical powerhouse.

• It had a sample size of only twenty >50-yr old men with benign prostate cancer.
• They administered 500% the daily finasteride anyone takes for hair loss.
• Median DHT dropped by 88.45% (1.048 to 0.121), while allopregnalone dropped by 73.58% (0.159 to 0.042)

The differential statistics in the figure you sourced are misleading at best. Check the image you sourced:
View attachment 1957233
Look closely and it seems like someone fat-fingered the Δ(II-I%) for allopregnalone. You can't drop 300% in anything. Except maybe IQ points after an extended time on a certain looksmaxing forum. Without the raw data for this study, these results are basically useless because the authors portrayed them so poorly. Even with the raw data, it's a shit sample size.

Your second source is, well, just a description of allopregnalone & its role in Alzheimer's. Which is an undeniable correlation: "Allopregnanolone levels are reduced in temporal cortex in patients with AD (median 2.68 ng/g, n=40) compared to control subjects (median 5.64 ng/g, n=41)" (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20488256/)

So about a 50% lower level of allo in those with AD. Low allo levels are also seen in depressed patients. Finasteride is known to lower dopaminergic activity.

To demonstrate how the endocrine system is so complicated, if we accepted the findings from your first source, we would linearly speculate that at a normal treatment of finasteride at 1mg/day, we would expect to see a median allo decrease of 15%, and a median DHT decrease of 17%. Which obviously is inaccurate because 1mg fin lowers DHT by about 70%. I can't find any good studies for 1mg fin effects on allo, but it's known that finasteride primarily affects the type II isoform of 5ar, while allo is affected by the type I isoform.

This is simply too complex of an issue to use the first source as any kind of guideline. And for this matter, no study is acceptable except a well-controlled, long-term study on the outcomes of men taking 1mg/day fin. Which I'm sure this site will eventually be a gold mine for qualified subjects.

TLDR, fucking with your hormones is always a retarded idea. Your endocrine system is an extremely complicated, poorly understood house of cards that is really best left unfucked with. Unless you'd literally kys if you went bald, then by all means.

Topical fin + minox, while still somewhat systemic, is a much better health-conscious option than oral fin.

High IQ reply, thanks.

 

[TITUS]

Sorry, you're a fucking idiot. You'll still be beta incel loser even with hair, you'll just get to experience true hell before you die

Im scared now.

 

[TITUS]

Im scared now.

Sorry, you're a fucking idiot. You'll still be beta incel loser even with hair, you'll just get to experience true hell before you die

But that was just for a moment, i started stroking my hair and all was good.

 

[DHTrash]

Haircafe just made a video about you

 

[Deleted member 20914]

Haircafe just made a video about you

He made a lot of good points to be honest, my post was kinda retarded in the first place.

But he doesn't mention the fact that the brain uses allopregnanolone produced outside of the brain, which finasteride reduces. The brain doesn't just use allopregnanolone produced in the brain. If it was the case that Allo was only made by the brain, and thus only by type 1 5AR, then it wouldn't be an issue whatsoever.

"These two studies suggest that the allopregnanolone present in brain is synthesized, at least in part, independently of the control of the pituitary on peripheral endocrine tissues (Purdy et al., 1992; Cheney et al., 1995)."

"α,5α-Tetrahydroprogesterone, also called allopregnanolone (ALLO), is one of the neurosteroids that are synthesized de novo in the brain or reach the brain from peripheral steroidogenic organs, such as adrenals and gonads11."