Abrahamic Faiths are too literal

[greycel]

How can somebody agree to the literal interpretations that most Abrahmic faiths currently purport, knowing the similar nature of experiences shared by Saints (from "rivalling" faiths) that point towards Oneness and the earliest history of religious beliefs (animism/shamanism) supporting the mechanics of Nondual Mysticicm... e.g. awareness shifts from taking shrooms

Zoroastrianism influenced all these Abrahamic faiths.

The Zoroastrian priests that came centureis after their prophet, were the ones who changed the original Zoroaster's Cosmic Monism to Cosmic dualism because they wanted to gatekeep "the Good" to the elite factions, but doing so they opened the doors for Evil to have a chance of being equal to Good. Evil is not real at all. It is an unreal perspective created from unreal Ego

Intuitively you can understand it too.
To ensure that the illiterate society 2000 years follows rules and acts in order, they must be able to relate to what happens. From there you get literal concepts that are of the physical material nature, that they can relate to.
You get Heaven or Hell (bred from dualism) / Linear Time (influenced by causation they're used to, opposed to cyclical) / etc.
Much easier to control populations rather than telling somebody about states of consciousness or transmigration.
Everything was changed to be taken literally, as means for political control

You'd be called a heretic because mystics claim to have a direct, personal, connection to God, that would have been seen as a loose cannon.. which bypasses the authority of intermediaries such as P0,pe

So now we have billions of people around the world acting from fear because of Catholic and Sunni and other Dualistic belief systems, rather than realising their faith in Love, from grace.

The biggest tipping point should be just look at the e,lit3s. They practice Jwsh Mysticism and other esoteric systems that come from Hermeticism (entirely nondual).

In other interpretations of Abrahmic faiths... Sufis, Orthodox Christians, etc, they have found the Truth
So it's not as if there is one path up the mountain. There are many paths


Admittedly, even Catholics and Sunnis or Jews have found the Truth, albeit a much smaller number.
Because the Universal Truth is not contained by any one religion

But it's much harder to walk with clarity down the path, if you don't even know it exists...
Don't chase literal interpretations of Abrahmic faiths.
Look into Nondual Mysticism

 

[iblamexyz]

How can somebody agree to the literal interpretations that most Abrahmic faiths currently purport, knowing the similar nature of experiences shared by Saints (from "rivalling" faiths) that point towards Oneness and the earliest history of religious beliefs (animism/shamanism) supporting the mechanics of Nondual Mysticicm... e.g. awareness shifts from taking shrooms

Zoroastrianism influenced all these Abrahamic faiths.

The Zoroastrian priests that came centureis after their prophet, were the ones who changed the original Zoroaster's Cosmic Monism to Cosmic dualism because they wanted to gatekeep "the Good" to the elite factions, but doing so they opened the doors for Evil to have a chance of being equal to Good. Evil is not real at all. It is an unreal perspective created from unreal Ego

Intuitively you can understand it too.
To ensure that the illiterate society 2000 years follows rules and acts in order, they must be able to relate to what happens. From there you get literal concepts that are of the physical material nature, that they can relate to.
You get Heaven or Hell (bred from dualism) / Linear Time (influenced by causation they're used to, opposed to cyclical) / etc.
Much easier to control populations rather than telling somebody about states of consciousness or transmigration.
Everything was changed to be taken literally, as means for political control

You'd be called a heretic because mystics claim to have a direct, personal, connection to God, that would have been seen as a loose cannon.. which bypasses the authority of intermediaries such as P0,pe

So now we have billions of people around the world acting from fear because of Catholic and Sunni and other Dualistic belief systems, rather than realising their faith in Love, from grace.

The biggest tipping point should be just look at the e,lit3s. They practice Jwsh Mysticism and other esoteric systems that come from Hermeticism (entirely nondual).

In other interpretations of Abrahmic faiths... Sufis, Orthodox Christians, etc, they have found the Truth
So it's not as if there is one path up the mountain. There are many paths


Admittedly, even Catholics and Sunnis or Jews have found the Truth, albeit a much smaller number.
Because the Universal Truth is not contained by any one religion

But it's much harder to walk with clarity down the path, if you don't even know it exists...
Don't chase literal interpretations of Abrahmic faiths.
Look into Nondual Mysticism

Christ or nothing

 

[Brava]

will read this

 

[Junbae]

changed the original Zoroaster's Cosmic Monism to Cosmic dualism because they wanted to gatekeep "the Good" to the elite factions, but doing so they opened the doors for Evil to have a chance of being equal to Good. Evil is not real at all. It is an unreal perspective created from unreal Ego

 

[Brava]

So you believe that religions misguide people ? Or that people have been misguided in their worship process ?

You do realize that God still exist with your theory ? Not only can the Christian God exist but also an unknown one.

 

[Junbae]

So you believe that religions misguide people ? Or that people have been misguided in their worship process ?

You do realize that God still exist with your theory ? Not only can the Christian God exist but also an unknown one.

he's saying that religion was wrongly systemized when it was meant to be a personal and unique spiritual relationship with a higher power.

 

[Brava]

he's saying that religion was wrongly systemized when it was meant to be a personal and unique spiritual relationship with a higher power.

And this is exactly what I’m asking. Thank you for your insight.

 

[greycel]

Spoiler

@Gargantuan @Hernan @sync! @CollioureViews @ngannou

 

[Hernan]

at the end of the day Christ will forever be king.

 

[CollioureViews]

How can somebody agree to the literal interpretations that most Abrahmic faiths currently purport, knowing the similar nature of experiences shared by Saints (from "rivalling" faiths) that point towards Oneness and the earliest history of religious beliefs (animism/shamanism) supporting the mechanics of Nondual Mysticicm... e.g. awareness shifts from taking shrooms

Zoroastrianism influenced all these Abrahamic faiths.

The Zoroastrian priests that came centureis after their prophet, were the ones who changed the original Zoroaster's Cosmic Monism to Cosmic dualism because they wanted to gatekeep "the Good" to the elite factions, but doing so they opened the doors for Evil to have a chance of being equal to Good. Evil is not real at all. It is an unreal perspective created from unreal Ego

Intuitively you can understand it too.
To ensure that the illiterate society 2000 years follows rules and acts in order, they must be able to relate to what happens. From there you get literal concepts that are of the physical material nature, that they can relate to.
You get Heaven or Hell (bred from dualism) / Linear Time (influenced by causation they're used to, opposed to cyclical) / etc.
Much easier to control populations rather than telling somebody about states of consciousness or transmigration.
Everything was changed to be taken literally, as means for political control

You'd be called a heretic because mystics claim to have a direct, personal, connection to God, that would have been seen as a loose cannon.. which bypasses the authority of intermediaries such as P0,pe

So now we have billions of people around the world acting from fear because of Catholic and Sunni and other Dualistic belief systems, rather than realising their faith in Love, from grace.

The biggest tipping point should be just look at the e,lit3s. They practice Jwsh Mysticism and other esoteric systems that come from Hermeticism (entirely nondual).

In other interpretations of Abrahmic faiths... Sufis, Orthodox Christians, etc, they have found the Truth
So it's not as if there is one path up the mountain. There are many paths


Admittedly, even Catholics and Sunnis or Jews have found the Truth, albeit a much smaller number.
Because the Universal Truth is not contained by any one religion

But it's much harder to walk with clarity down the path, if you don't even know it exists...
Don't chase literal interpretations of Abrahmic faiths.
Look into Nondual Mysticism

This is Perennialism, and I don't buy it.

You're stripping all of these vastly different frameworks of the foundational truth claims they make, trying to reduce them to some shared idea of "faith in love, from grace".

These belief systems make contradictory metaphysical and historical claims, which cannot all be true.

To put this in your words, it's not "many paths, one mountain", it's "many mountains".

By this logic, atheism and materialism are just "other paths up the mountain". A shit-eating atheist can eat mushrooms and wax polemical too; and if his ego-dissolution counts as evidence for your "Oneness," you've got no way to rule him out. The problem is, the atheist denies the mountain even exists, and by the same token, the religions and systems you mentioned make foundational truth claims which cannot be integrated.

You can only harmonise them by throwing out all of the doctrinal content, and you're falsely equivocating the practice of keeping their respective dogmas with "chasing literal interpretations".

Further, and I'll just represent Catholic metaphysics as I'm most familiar with it, you're strawmanning our theology, not presenting a critique of it.

It's long been understood that evil has no positive substance. Evil is not some rival force that's ontologically equal to God; it's best thought of as a perversion or corruption of good.

This is millennia-old Christian theology, going back to St. Augustine, so I don't know how you missed it... It's literally a heresy.

I'm not gonna go into the connections with Zoroastrianism in the interest of brevity; that's been thoroughly contested by numerous world-renowned scholars in a bunch of different domains.

Mentioning elites practising esotericism and mysticism is a non sequitur. The elites of many dead civilisations practised blood magic; where are they now??? That's right, conquered by the Christians!

But that's actually beside the point. Regardless of what people in power practise spiritually, the fact that they are in the elite of society does nothing to prove the metaphysical claims of their system; that's just an appeal to authority.

Lastly, you say that mystics were branded as heretics because they threatened the hierarchy's monopoly, such as the pope. With a quick google search I've found mystics who were literally canonised as saints and made doctors of the church, sooo, yeah... John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, and Catherine of Siena are a few I've found in a pinch.

They all claimed to have direct, personal encounters with God; that wasn't the issue. It's that other people who've made similar claims were tested against their fruits, and they turned out to be fraudsters and manipulators, not full of charity or humility. Those are the heretics.

None of this requires blind literalism, just engaging with the doctrine you're arguing against, not some straw-manned version that's already been heretical for over 1000 years.

 

[SecularIslamist]

This is Perennialism, and I don't buy it.

You're stripping all of these vastly different frameworks of the foundational truth claims they make, trying to reduce them to some shared idea of "faith in love, from grace".

These belief systems make contradictory metaphysical and historical claims, which cannot all be true.

To put this in your words, it's not "many paths, one mountain", it's "many mountains".

By this logic, atheism and materialism are just "other paths up the mountain". A shit-eating atheist can eat mushrooms and wax polemical too; and if his ego-dissolution counts as evidence for your "Oneness," you've got no way to rule him out. The problem is, the atheist denies the mountain even exists, and by the same token, the religions and systems you mentioned make foundational truth claims which cannot be integrated.

You can only harmonise them by throwing out all of the doctrinal content, and you're falsely equivocating the practice of keeping their respective dogmas with "chasing literal interpretations".

Further, and I'll just represent Catholic metaphysics as I'm most familiar with it, you're strawmanning our theology, not presenting a critique of it.

It's long been understood that evil has no positive substance. Evil is not some rival force that's ontologically equal to God; it's best thought of as a perversion or corruption of good.

This is millennia-old Christian theology, going back to St. Augustine, so I don't know how you missed it... It's literally a heresy.

I'm not gonna go into the connections with Zoroastrianism in the interest of brevity; that's been thoroughly contested by numerous world-renowned scholars in a bunch of different domains.

Mentioning elites practising esotericism and mysticism is a non sequitur. The elites of many dead civilisations practised blood magic; where are they now??? That's right, conquered by the Christians!

But that's actually beside the point. Regardless of what people in power practise spiritually, the fact that they are in the elite of society does nothing to prove the metaphysical claims of their system; that's just an appeal to authority.

Lastly, you say that mystics were branded as heretics because they threatened the hierarchy's monopoly, such as the pope. With a quick google search I've found mystics who were literally canonised as saints and made doctors of the church, sooo, yeah... John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, and Catherine of Siena are a few I've found in a pinch.

They all claimed to have direct, personal encounters with God; that wasn't the issue. It's that other people who've made similar claims were tested against their fruits, and they turned out to be fraudsters and manipulators, not full of charity or humility. Those are the heretics.

None of this requires blind literalism, just engaging with the doctrine you're arguing against, not some straw-manned version that's already been heretical for over 1000 years.

I don't think you'll convince OP some people just have their heads in the clouds. I was like this myself too once before.

@greycel brushing all abarahamic faith's as literalism is cope. I know you mentioned Sufism earlier today but their is a broad diverse traditions within many religions especially Islam. I'm not saying that because I'm Muslim but Muslims took this literalism vs apparantism/allegorical/metaphorical/reason debate very seriously on many different levels. I wouldn't even call some of the most ardent literalist theologians like ibn Taymiyyah "literalist". They just wanted to understand the truth.

Christians had their own debate borrowing from Muslim theologians but gave way to secularism and never developed a strong mystical - or sophisticated puratancical theology.