Another Pagnoni Botch

[lurking truecel]

I imagine with more people seeking fixes for these issues, it will become more common. If anything, this should indicate that there’s more diagnostic testing and patient fitting that needs to occur. Also, Pagnoni if you’ve researched has typically been better at implants as opposed to osteotomy. Without the information being clarified by both parties, it’s pretty difficult to say. But his fail rate is in line with industry standard as far as stats are concerned.

Doing maybe 30 bimaxes a year a botching 6 out of them the same year is not in the Industry standard. 1 in 50 sure, it should be 1 in 100

 

[tweaqo]

I don’t believe the post entirely. Somehow this guy pulled all 7 issues from Pagnoni? Crossbite, open bite, gummy smile, difficulty chewing, non union? And Pagnoni just said no? I’m gonna call bullshit, I’m not saying doctors can’t have some lapse in judgement, but this all said with no pictures, no corroboration of story, it smells funny. I’m just saying that in general, redditor dog piling is particularly bad. He might be the rare fuck up, but something is odd

I’ve seen the scans bro. He private messaged me pics.

 

[mysterycel]

I’ve seen the scans bro. He private messaged me pics.

Not saying it can't happen, but everytime there's a botch, there's an immediate resort to making claims that it's all the surgeon has ever done. Likewise, Surgeons do have somewhat of a gun pointed at them - if they don't do it, the person will likely go out of their way to do it anyway, especially if you're going to an aesthetics focused surgeon.

Doing maybe 30 bimaxes a year a botching 6 out of them the same year is not in the Industry standard. 1 in 50 sure, it should be 1 in 100

Links to botches? I can't find more than 2. Also, I believe his number of Bimaxes is higher than 30.

 

[tweaqo]

Not saying it can't happen, but everytime there's a botch, there's an immediate resort to making claims that it's all the surgeon has ever done. Likewise, Surgeons do have somewhat of a gun pointed at them - if they don't do it, the person will likely go out of their way to do it anyway, especially if you're going to an aesthetics focused surgeon.



Links to botches? I can't find more than 2. Also, I believe his number of Bimaxes is higher than 30.

Yes but u have to understand the nature of this botch. He made the bsso cut very high up, I saw on the scan it was near the ramus. This is very odd, he also did not tell the patient he was going to do it.

Of course there might be more to the story, and this isn’t to say Pagnoni is a a bad surgeon, just very odd

 

[mysterycel]

Yes but u have to understand the nature of this botch. He made the bsso cut very high up, I saw on the scan it was near the ramus. This is very odd, he also did not tell the patient he was going to do it.

Of course there might be more to the story, and this isn’t to say Pagnoni is a a bad surgeon, just very odd

These things happen, this is also the natural risk of the surgical environment. At the end of the day, you are playing with arguably one of the most dangerous parts of your body. Not saying it justifies the action either, but scans are also just scans.

Out of thousands of surgeries, with probably a solid lets say 50 to 75 botches, maybe higher, with at least probably 40% of those being resolved with extra cost, he's still undoubtedly a top notch surgeon worth going to. As with any surgery though, a risk is never 0, not even death.

 

[tweaqo]

These things happen, this is also the natural risk of the surgical environment. At the end of the day, you are playing with arguably one of the most dangerous parts of your body. Not saying it justifies the action either, but scans are also just scans.

Out of thousands of surgeries, with probably a solid lets say 50 to 75 botches, maybe higher, with at least probably 40% of those being resolved with extra cost, he's still undoubtedly a top notch surgeon worth going to. As with any surgery though, a risk is never 0, not even death.

Yes I understand that things can go wrong, but what could have possibly made him make the cut SO far up the mandible, it goes against everything that jaw surgeons do… it increases risk of nerve damage, fucks the condyles, leaving patient with unstable jaw.

Funny thing is that I’m most likely going to Pagnoni for a 3 piece custom genioplasty as well as custom facial implants, but that is only if I can trust that he will care about my case.

Remember, it’s not just about the botch, it’s about how the surgeon reacts, in this case Pagnoni didn’t seem to care about the botch, and pre op he was vaping in the patients face as well as saying he wanted to retire…

Now I’m considering Ramieri for my surgeries due to this

 

[mysterycel]

Yes I understand that things can go wrong, but what could have possibly made him make the cut SO far up the mandible, it goes against everything that jaw surgeons do… it increases risk of nerve damage, fucks the condyles, leaving patient with unstable jaw.

Funny thing is that I’m most likely going to Pagnoni for a 3 piece custom genioplasty as well as custom facial implants, but that is only if I can trust that he will care about my case.

Remember, it’s not just about the botch, it’s about how the surgeon reacts, in this case Pagnoni didn’t seem to care about the botch, and pre op he was vaping in the patients face as well as saying he wanted to retire…

Now I’m considering Ramieri for my surgeries due to this

I don't disagree, personally I wouldn't go to Pagnoni for Bimax based off my own research. It seems to be general consensus that he is far better at implants, which I tend to agree based off the before and afters I have seen. Ramieri or Alfaro are far better suited for maxilliofacial.

 

[tweaqo]

I don't disagree, personally I wouldn't go to Pagnoni for Bimax based off my own research. It seems to be general consensus that he is far better at implants, which I tend to agree based off the before and afters I have seen. Ramieri or Alfaro are far better suited for maxilliofacial.

I’m not sure if I am making this up but someone said to me recently (before this botch) that Pagnoni is not even designing his implants anymore, not sure how true that is, I sure hope not.

Ramieri has had some good implant cases too, he does custom facial implants.

 

[mysterycel]

I’m not sure if I am making this up but someone said to me recently (before this botch) that Pagnoni is not even designing his implants anymore, not sure how true that is, I sure hope not.

Ramieri has had some good implant cases too, he does custom facial implants.

Surgeons typically don't design their own implants ever, they usually pay and guide a 3rd party designer or have an internal team they work with, for cosmetic surgeons, the same is still true. It's typically because the engineer is better at navigating the software, and the surgeon is better at breaking down the anatomy. This is why people go to Giant more and more, because he has a decent to good understanding of facial anatomy and implant design.

 

[DonaldJTrump]

He has like 5 other botches this year, all having open bites and weird issues. Something went wrong this year for some reason, if its not the cut the. I wonder what happend

I imagine with more people seeking fixes for these issues, it will become more common. If anything, this should indicate that there’s more diagnostic testing and patient fitting that needs to occur. Also, Pagnoni if you’ve researched has typically been better at implants as opposed to osteotomy. Without the information being clarified by both parties, it’s pretty difficult to say. But his fail rate is in line with industry standard as far as stats are concerned.

open bite is normal i think because he almost never requires braces before people get bimax. if you want to avoid an open bite, u need braces i think.

 

[lurking truecel]

open bite is normal i think because he almost never requires braces before people get bimax. if you want to avoid an open bite, u need braces i think.

Braces or not will not make you have an open bite.

 

[adarsh arya]

This is worrying tbh.

From the lack of responsibility of him to the cockiness from vaping. Reminds me of people’s experiences with Raffaini and his ego.

Very concerning that he would say he’s “bored” of surgery.

vaping during consultation is crazy work

 

[Deleted member 110398]

vaping during consultation is crazy work

high t

 

[zlatan65]

I asked him some time ago to make a plan for me, do you think the bad BSSO cut is the same as the botched guy on Reddit ?

 

[tweaqo]

I asked him some time ago to make a plan for me, do you think the bad BSSO cut is the same as the botched guy on Reddit ? View attachment 3919051

Show side profile view

 

[LEFORT17]

I asked him some time ago to make a plan for me, do you think the bad BSSO cut is the same as the botched guy on Reddit ? View attachment 3919051

what type of ct scan do you have to send pag

 

[Curryfinder]

Doing maybe 30 bimaxes a year a botching 6 out of them the same year is not in the Industry standard. 1 in 50 sure, it should be 1 in 100

True but remember its probably some variance (luck) in this. Some years he might have 0 botches and then 5 in one year. One scary thing is what if the 3d planning software has bug so measurements get wrong or something

 

[Don12456]

I asked him some time ago to make a plan for me, do you think the bad BSSO cut is the same as the botched guy on Reddit ? View attachment 3919051

Yeah that does look similar. Too far back.

How much input did you have in this? Can you request changes from him regarding the plan or is it just whatever he wants?

 

[JBourne7878]

Isn't Mirco Raffaini the best in Italy or at least was the best? If you're in the states, there are so many good surgeons to choose from.... Gunson, LACOMS, Li, etc...

 

[tweaqo]

Isn't Mirco Raffaini the best in Italy or at least was the best? If you're in the states, there are so many good surgeons to choose from.... Gunson, LACOMS, Li, etc...

Raffaini doesn’t do implants.


US surgeon are expensive asf, to be fair so are the Italian surgeons now