Any questions regarding my next thread?

[Zagro]

Been working on a pretty nice thread with the topic of aromatase inhibitors for every single use-case, primarily heightmaxxing, for the last few months. Had to absolutely begin from scratch and learned the physiology behind MANY things throughout. I have to starve myself for the next few weeks and have a fuck load of free time so I though that I'll return to making threads.

What I'm asking for here is if you guys have any questions at all about anything estrogen-related, or about it's receptors or just about aromatase inhibitors themselves. Also should I go very in-depth about how it really works, like a background where I even could try to explain steroidogenesis, or do y'all just want instructions and learn about what's detrimental and what's not.

I currently cant even post it afaik as it exceeds 100.000 characters so please let me know what interests you guys more, so I can focus more on an actual thread people will spend time reading.​

 

[terlound]

i think just go into how they work, how they apply to people, and def a risk assessment. sounds cool hope it goes well, def smth i would read lmk when u post it

 

[Zagro]

i think just go into how they work, how they apply to people, and def a risk assessment. sounds cool hope it goes well, def smth i would read lmk when u post it

Side-effect profiles of the big three aromatase inhibitors; exemestane, anastrozole and letrozole will be included

I have a nice explanation of how they work distinctively from eachother, mainly the difference between anas+letro compared to exe.

And how aromatase inhibitors may work or oppose your certain use-case for them.

I think that I should remove the in-depth explanations as a background as that takes an insane amount of space in the thread, like what cytochrome P450 enzymes are, how steroidogenesis is relevant for this topic, what the catalytic cycle is etc. Those things don't really bother you or do they? There are real big words used you have to have basic understanding to even fathom what's being explained so I'm not really sure if it's worth to include them.

 

[terlound]

Side-effect profiles of the big three aromatase inhibitors; exemestane, anastrozole and letrozole will be included

I have a nice explanation of how they work distinctively from eachother, mainly the difference between anas+letro compared to exe.

And how aromatase inhibitors may work or oppose your certain use-case for them.

I think that I should remove the in-depth explanations as a background as that takes an insane amount of space in the thread, like what cytochrome P450 enzymes are, how steroidogenesis is relevant for this topic, what the catalytic cycle is etc. Those things don't really bother you or do they? There are real big words used you have to have basic understanding to even fathom what's being explained so I'm not really sure if it's worth to include them.

can i ask just because im curious, is letrozole even an option, isnt it super shit. I use arimidex myself

 

[zigeuner]

I‘m looking forward to that thread!

Maybe you could include SERM‘s as well for Gyno purpose and as an Act of Education

Been working on a pretty nice thread with the topic of aromatase inhibitors for every single use-case, primarily heightmaxxing, for the last few months. Had to absolutely begin from scratch and learned the physiology behind MANY things throughout. I have to starve myself for the next few weeks and have a fuck load of free time so I though that I'll return to making threads.

What I'm asking for here is if you guys have any questions at all about anything estrogen-related, or about it's receptors or just about aromatase inhibitors themselves. Also should I go very in-depth about how it really works, like a background where I even could try to explain steroidogenesis, or do y'all just want instructions and learn about what's detrimental and what's not.

I currently cant even post it afaik as it exceeds 100.000 characters so please let me know what interests you guys more, so I can focus more on an actual thread people will spend time reading.​

 

[Zagro]

Bump

@infrainfra you were right about trenbolone having a metabolite that directly binds the estrogen receptor alpha without needing ligands, and i understood it as upregulating ERa so I was confused how it would even impact anything if you didn't have the ligand itself.

It seems to be very weak, even weaker than estrone or just very slightly more potent.

"About 75.6% of the original substance are excreted as l7a-TbOH" this indeed shows us a risk as most of the parent compound metabolizes into the metabolite that has binding affinity to ERa (from a trial on cattles), but "MGA, 17a-TbOH, TbO and the endogenous hormones, estradiol and epitestosteronehad only low affinities between 4.9% and 0.31%." so it's also very weak.

I hope this settles our debate as I do agree with your point but you're just missing some nuance with it. Let me even strengthen your point and add on that aromatase inhibitors, androgens or GH/IGF-1 axis can upregulate the estrogen receptor alpha, so the risk increases further. But even then the risk is still very low as we cant even reach estradiol's/E2's binding affinity even under these circumstances.

This could oppose pretty viable risks if the parent compound is dosed at 500-1000mg weekly, and this is with active compound so around a dosage such as 1g and higher of trenbolone enanthate can start making things risky and actually detrimental. This is something I was worried about as trenbolone is literally made from estrogen itself, the skeleton of the molecule is estrogen.

 

[Zagro]

can i ask just because im curious, is letrozole even an option, isnt it super shit. I use arimidex myself

I assume your goal is height, if then your best bet is literally letrozole as aromatase inhibitors barely "work" for this use-case. Arimidex/anastrozole is a decent option if letrozole is somehow impossible to access, but it's too weak and you NEED something potent.

 

[thramer.]

Your thread idea is very good, it'd also help to include a part mentioning the use of aromatase inhibitors in combination with different heightmaxxing stacks including testosterone,hgh, e.t.c. it would help alot on explaining the corellation between local e2 in the growth plate and systemic e2 in an environment with increased substrate (testosterone), and it would also help to compare different aromatse inhibitors in wether or not the cross the blood-brain barrier, overrall very good thread idea. Especially sice theres many people trying to control e2 and bone maturation while running 500-1000+ test+ai to try and avoid stunting growth

 

[2s2f]

im looking forward to it

 

[Zagro]

I‘m looking forward to that thread!

Maybe you could include SERM‘s as well for Gyno purpose and as an Act of Education

Then I would have to add on a whole other 5.000-10.000 character explanation, administration and physiology section.

If you guys prefer to hear less about how it works, like the pharmacology behind compounds I could expand on many things like SERMs, as this thread is for you guys not me.

 

[2s2f]

im looking forward to it

please zagro I need this... my height is kinda 5'5 I live with my dad I wanna gain height

 

[lnceIs]

Bump

@infrainfra you were right about trenbolone having a metabolite that directly binds the estrogen receptor alpha without needing ligands, and i understood it as upregulating ERa so I was confused how it would even impact anything if you didn't have the ligand itself.

It seems to be very weak, even weaker than estrone or just very slightly more potent.

"About 75.6% of the original substance are excreted as l7a-TbOH" this indeed shows us a risk as most of the parent compound metabolizes into the metabolite that has binding affinity to ERa (from a trial on cattles), but "MGA, 17a-TbOH, TbO and the endogenous hormones, estradiol and epitestosteronehad only low affinities between 4.9% and 0.31%." so it's also very weak.

I hope this settles our debate as I do agree with your point but you're just missing some nuance with it. Let me even strengthen your point and add on that aromatase inhibitors, androgens or GH/IGF-1 axis can upregulate the estrogen receptor alpha, so the risk increases further. But even then the risk is still very low as we cant even reach estradiol's/E2's binding affinity even under these circumstances.

This could oppose pretty viable risks if the parent compound is dosed at 500-1000mg weekly, and this is with active compound so around a dosage such as 1g and higher of trenbolone enanthate can start making things risky and actually detrimental. This is something I was worried about as trenbolone is literally made from estrogen itself, the skeleton of the molecule is estrogen.

Imagine you used this time for studying to become a criminal in finance while running a medium-sized drug empire on the side, jfl bro go get that extra cm

 

[Zagro]

Your thread idea is very good, it'd also help to include a part mentioning the use of aromatase inhibitors in combination with different heightmaxxing stacks including testosterone,hgh, e.t.c. it would help alot on explaining the corellation between local e2 in the growth plate and systemic e2 in an environment with increased substrate (testosterone), and it would also help to compare different aromatse inhibitors in wether or not the cross the blood-brain barrier, overrall very good thread idea. Especially sice theres many people trying to control e2 and bone maturation while running 500-1000+ test+ai to try and avoid stunting growth

It's not really an idea I have majority of the thread ready and mapped and have finished writing up almost everything, but will change it all

Adding other comps into the thread for the heightmaxxing section would be quite random and there will be a lot of unexplained parts, can only make a short example stack typa thing and tell you what to avoid, as I already have that ready but thanks for the suggestion

Yes I will speak on about autocrine, paracrine and endocrine estrogen and just a truth-nuke.

Thanks for the suggestions dude this is what I wanted to hear, but I have already covered most of them so you will be satisfied by it I assume.

Anyone running testosterone exogenously and reaching supraphysiological concentrations of T is actively stunting their growth, so this hopefully helps some to stop and reconsider.

 

[Seven]

nah

 

[Zagro]

Imagine you used this time for studying to become a criminal in finance while running a medium-sized drug empire on the side, jfl bro go get that extra cm

Lol I've thought about something like this, like what if i actually put this time into something that can help my future financially.

Or like programming, editing etc so I could earn real good money on the side.

But this will all hopefully help me in the future at uni so it's not all for nothing, maybe the fact that we wont really have assignments on trenbolone there but just understanding some biology already is helpful itself

nah

Very helpful thanks

 

[Zagro]

Last bump

 

[birthdefect]

Been working on a pretty nice thread with the topic of aromatase inhibitors for every single use-case, primarily heightmaxxing, for the last few months. Had to absolutely begin from scratch and learned the physiology behind MANY things throughout. I have to starve myself for the next few weeks and have a fuck load of free time so I though that I'll return to making threads.

What I'm asking for here is if you guys have any questions at all about anything estrogen-related, or about it's receptors or just about aromatase inhibitors themselves. Also should I go very in-depth about how it really works, like a background where I even could try to explain steroidogenesis, or do y'all just want instructions and learn about what's detrimental and what's not.

I currently cant even post it afaik as it exceeds 100.000 characters so please let me know what interests you guys more, so I can focus more on an actual thread people will spend time reading.​

is it so wise to make such an indepth post on whats basically water to most people? or will you go deeper and look into alternatives for e2 blocking like serds

 

[Zagro]

is it so wise to make such an indepth post on whats basically water to most people? or will you go deeper and look into alternatives for e2 blocking like serds

Very in-depth into the heightmaxxing use-case, so it will be water to me and perchance you if you know about aromatase inhibitors and the growth plate, but I don't think more than 10-20 users on the whole forum are aware of most things I'll mention

And it's just a BOTB attempt as I don't see anything there about this topic or it's just total misinformation, might just make it about estrogen itself but anyways I'll be satisfied if i just help people become more aware and save some people from stunting their height

Also what have you been up to haven't seen you post for a long time

 

[molecule010]

Theres a big debate to wether AIs block aromatization of estrogen at the growth plates, could you answer that? people keep giving different answers. Will the aromatization from exogenous T prematurely close plates? so if you wanted to heightmaxx while taking roids would taking low dose test (100-150) with tren be ok? do androgens and test speed up growth velocity or could they also close plates prematurely

 

[Zagro]

Theres a big debate to wether AIs block aromatization of estrogen at the growth plates, could you answer that? people keep giving different answers. Will the aromatization from exogenous T prematurely close plates? so if you wanted to heightmaxx while taking roids would taking low dose test (100-150) with tren be ok? do androgens and test speed up growth velocity or could they also close plates prematurely

Yes this is included in my thread and the main focus with the heightmaxxing use-case, will include your other suggestions too perchance, thanks.

 

[birthdefect]

Very in-depth into the heightmaxxing use-case, so it will be water to me and perchance you if you know about aromatase inhibitors and the growth plate, but I don't think more than 10-20 users on the whole forum are aware of most things I'll mention

And it's just a BOTB attempt as I don't see anything there, might just make it about estrogen itself but anyways I'll be satisfied if i just help people become more aware and save some people from stunting their height

Also what have you been up to haven't seen you post for a long time

make it more about e2 in general
i just dont post as often, ive just been ldaring

 

[Zagro]

make it more about e2 in general
i just dont post as often, ive just been ldaring

I can make it about estrogen itself and post it in parts as it will exceed 100.000 characters, this seems pretty feasible and comprehensive enough tbh

Good then, there's nothing interesting on the forum nowadays

 

[molecule010]

Yes this is included in my thread and the main focus with the heightmaxxing use-case, will include your other suggestions too perchance, thanks.

also maybe discuss the best range to have your e2 during puberty for keeping plates open without stunting brain development or getting the negatives from very low e2, ive heard its around 15-20pg/mL.

 

[Zagro]

also maybe discuss the best range to have your e2 during puberty for keeping plates open without stunting brain development or getting the negatives from very low e2, ive heard its around 15-20pg/mL.

Also have this included already, an optimal range for all use-cases and the risks with going higher/lower, thanks again man

For height it differs depending on what you're able to run and whatnot, you can nuke it too

 

[molecule010]

Also have this included already, an optimal range for all use-cases and the risks with going higher/lower, thanks again man

For height it differs depending on what you're able to run and whatnot, you can nuke it too

are you off roids now? you mentioned using doses up to 1.5g test and 800mg tren and others, how did your enhanced puberty affect your goals of facial aesthetics, height and muscle? mirin you

 

[infrainfra]

It seems to be very weak, even weaker than estrone or just very slightly more potent.

"About 75.6% of the original substance are excreted as l7a-TbOH" this indeed shows us a risk as most of the parent compound metabolizes into the metabolite that has binding affinity to ERa (from a trial on cattles), but "MGA, 17a-TbOH, TbO and the endogenous hormones, estradiol eah and epitestosteronehad only low affinities between 4.9% and 0.31%." so it's also very weak

Hey , yeah obviously the metabolites are never coming close to estrogen itself BUT since gh , ais or androgens increase the ER sensitivity you should be super careful using anything that gives the receptor its ligand and on top of that increases its sensitivity via progesterone interactions. not to mention that aromatase inhibitors never work a 100% and you are still left with like 4-6pg depending on person and if your willing to use a test base or not. tbh as a heightmaxxer ( especially past like 15,16) estrogen and estrogen receptor activation should be your number1 fear with wtv ur using.

you still haven’t given me any good reason to actually use tren. is it the igf1mRNA increase? all androgens do that. maybe not to the extent that tren does but they still do. i just dont understand why u got it in your stack as a heightmaxxer not having any in vivo studies on animals and the actual height difference of treated vs control. plus the ER interactions that are a obvious downside.
id be happy if u gave me the reason and continued the debate on pm about tren and halo ( or just give it here)
i gave u my reasoning for halo on pm