chaddyboi66
E V I S C E M O G G E R
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Cringe and there isn't a picture / videoCope and I cant see the picture / video
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Cringe and there isn't a picture / videoCope and I cant see the picture / video
Oh i thought it was .Cringe and there isn't a picture / video
BasedI'm not sold on either and just don't believe the globe model as fact.
[ISPOILER] [/ISPOILER]
Didn't know @BrendioEEE was so based
Earth is 100 percent flat, it's not just "bigger" it's flat, we live in an enclosed system probably similar if not exactly the way the Bible describes in Genesis. Obviously this is a created system and muh evolution is not real in the sense of literally coming from slime and shit. NASA is a joke, if you watch enough ISS videos and people tearing them apart you should be able to realize at least this much, they are 100 percent actors behind green screens and on a movie like set
This conspiracy about the Earth being flat does seem to be a difficult hurdle to jump over, not because it's hard to prove that it's flat, but because of the wider implications. I know someone IRL super redpilled about all the other legit conspiracies, Jews, etc but can't accept the flat earth cause this person is a hardcore athiest and believes in muh evolution
Basically calling it flat is for people in the know, calling it "bigger" is more optical and consumable for people not in the know, and far more easy to argue without them hearing "Earth is Flat" and then start going full cognitive dissonance MUH MUH MUH FLAT EARTH mode or whatever.
It's also far more easy to argue, The Earth is bigger, and many "flat earthers" are taking that route to expose people to the truth, because that's the easiest way of doing so, and it's working.
The observable part of The Earth we currently are on is flat, but it's also likely that the Earth is much much much bigger. So I mean, hypothetically it could be round, but space ain't real, NASA is literally run Satanic Jewish Pedophiles.
As for evolution, I mean, I actually was majoring in evolutionary biology before I got expelled, so I heavily believe in changes and adaptations that can happen over the course of like, several thousand years, but there's a lot of shit that simply cannot be explained, or logically assumed to be true, from macro-evolution (shit that takes place over millions to billions of years), that is literally a Jewish meme, and if you question that you will be shunned from the scientific community, but here's a little secret, most evolutionary biologists agree with me on this one, they just don't want to lose their job.
Nah, if earth was flat then you would be able to see Moscow from Kazakhstan with a good telescope, but you can't because of the curveture. I used this example because the land there is basically flat af (steppes)
That's not how atmospheres work. I'm not trying to be snarky here, but because there is such a thing called an atmosphere, there's this thing called atmospheric lensing, it's the main reason why we can't see far distances, and they can even distort vision, and the way things look at far distances, making them appear bigger, or visually displaced in some way.
@BrendioEEE
i didnt knewStopped reading here, a certain person who the prophet knew personally and was one of his close followers for which he literally prayed to Allah to give him the best knowledge of the Quran wrote tasfirs that supported flath earth. Stop pretending you know alot
@Ryan you know about this?
For every person you bring from the ta'biin I can bring you one that also supported and the globe earth theory. Plus 99% of those that wrote the tasfirs didn't know a single thing about science. Those that did presented models of a heliocentric model.Stopped reading here, a certain person who the prophet knew personally and was one of his close followers for which he literally prayed to Allah to give him the best knowledge of the Quran wrote tasfirs that supported flath earth. Stop pretending you know alot
@Ryan you know about this?
What’s good@OOGABOOGA
"For every person", nice that you ignore the "person" im talking about here, i honestly don't remember the name but i believe its Zayd ibn Thabit, who the prophet prayed to Allah to bless him with the best understanding of the Quran. He wrote commentaries about the Earth and they all support flat earth. It was only decades and centuries later when Persian cucks became muslim that they spread the round earth pagan beliefsFor every person you bring from the ta'biin I can bring you one that also supported and the globe earth theory. Plus 99% of those that wrote the tasfirs didn't know a single thing about science. Those that did presented models of a heliocentric model.
Your point is null and void my friend
Nah that’s not it chief. It was a widely accepted fact even at the time of Prophet that the Earth was not flat. Persians weren’t the first ones that spread this “pagan” belief."For every person", nice that you ignore the "person" im talking about here, i honestly don't remember the name but i believe its Zayd ibn Thabit, who the prophet prayed to Allah to bless him with the best understanding of the Quran. He wrote commentaries about the Earth and they all support flat earth. It was only decades and centuries later when Persian cucks became muslim that they spread the round earth pagan beliefs
Why are you talking bullshit how the flat earth thing is a christian jewish thing and not muslim and you use 400 years after persian muslim scientists as an argument and saying how that is proof of muslims believing earth was round.
And its true you can find tasfirs that say the earth is round but whats interesting about them is the earlier they are the more about flat earth support they are oriented with and not round
this is a really good troll tbh almost fell for itTbh there is weight in this theory.. Youtube highly censore flat earth content and when u search it on utube you'll never get a video of flat earther explaing flat earth but fckin debunking videos nd parodies to make fun of this.. If u r really a truth seeker it will already raise suspicion.. They also do the same with anti vaxin content.. Conincide I think not
Most people cannot accept that they have been fooled their whole life
No expirement from earth can prove earth is gloab but many experiments can prove earth is flat
Some people feel special when they think they are in possession of some forbidden knowledge that have been hidden from the rest of the world. This belief makes them think they are a part of some elite group of geniuses who are not driven around like a flock of sheep by NASA and world governments. The truth is man there’s no way that the Earth is flat. If you wanna refuse 2000 years of established science and refuse to decode difficult sensory input then i’ll give you an example from Islam. There’s a Hadith where Prophet Muhammad SAW said:Most people cannot accept that they have been fooled their whole life
People that believe in it are 99% Christians cause that's what the bible teaches. The bible also teaches the earth is the center of the universe.
Honestly I couldn't be asked talking with those people. THEY DON'T EVEN BELIEVE GRAVITY IS FUCKING REAL FFS lmaooo
Dave's videos are just hilarious
I mean it could be, yes. The universe is just too big to deny this.the earth is indeed the centre of the universe
first of all, what is the universe and what is a centre? Man is the centrepiece of creation thus the centre of the universe has to be earth. Quick maffsI mean it could be, yes. The universe is just too big to deny this.
its the center of our observable universethe earth is indeed the centre of the universe
Wdymthis is a really good troll tbh almost fell for it
Islam started around the year 600. What was the accepted model of the earth at that time? As far as I know, everyone thought it was flat. I think someone in this thread linked something about a Muslim scholar in the 11th century discovering that the earth was a globe, but it wouldn’t be of any significance if people already believed it was a globe. You can’t discover something that’s already known. So if at the start of Islam, the majority of people thought it was flat, when did the majority start thinking it was a globe. I’m guessing some time around the 1800s, which is coincidentally the same time when the Europeans started promoting the idea heavily. And then all the interpretations of the Quran changed regarding the shape of the earth, and the Quran was saying the earth was a globe this whole time? Seems suspiciousSome people feel special when they think they are in possession of some forbidden knowledge that have been hidden from the rest of the world. This belief makes them think they are a part of some elite group of geniuses who are not driven around like a flock of sheep by NASA and world governments. The truth is man there’s no way that the Earth is flat. If you wanna refuse 2000 years of established science and refuse to decode difficult sensory input then i’ll give you an example from Islam. There’s a Hadith where Prophet Muhammad SAW said:
“Allah will not cause my ummah to agree on falsehood; the hand of Allah is with the jamaa‘ah (the main body of the Muslims).”
If we look at the majority of muslims and scholars virtually none of them believe in the flat Earth fad.
the earth is indeed the centre of the universe
fuck globecucksme, @TsarTsar444 , @lutte , @cloUder , @BrendioEEE , @Gargantuan believe in flat earth
we are nazis too
Many Islamic scholars way before the modern science was established had calculated the Earth’s circumference themselves and it was very close to the modern calculations.I’m guessing some time around the 1800s, which is coincidentally the same time when the Europeans started promoting the idea heavily.
But Islam started around the year 600, the earliest examples you gave are about 400 years after that. So what was the general opinion during those 400 years? And those were individual muslim scholars not the muslim authority at the time whose views can be regarded as the position of the religion as a whole. Just like there were Christian astronomers during the 1700s who were saying the sun went around the earth etc. Also those sources were during the Golden Age of Islam, where lots of advancements were being made in almost every field, but that's separate from the religion itself. Are there sources of the muslim leaders having any opinions on this topic? For example in Christianity it's clear that the Church was completely against the globe earth ideologies, until 1760 or so, when they decided they would no longer torture people for saying the earth goes around the sun. Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions, so don't you think it would be a huge deal and widely known if the muslims believed the globe earth 1000 years before the Christians? And I know people say there are lots of mentions in the Quran where it says the earth is a globe etc, but the ones I have seen are very vague, and they could be figurative rather than literal. And there are also arguments for the opposite, such as this:Many Islamic scholars way before the modern science was established had calculated the Earth’s circumference themselves and it was very close to the modern calculations.
One of those that did the calculations was Al biruni (d. 1048) and he wrote about it in his book “Al- Qanun al-masudi” or Canon Masudic. He estimated that the circumference of the Earth is 39,830 km which is more accurate then Eratosthenes’ 39,690 km. The estimation of the Muslim scholar was only a few kilometers different from the current radius of the Earth, known to modern scientists nowadays.
Ibn Hazm (d.1064), wrote in his book Al-Fisal. “ I do not know a single scholar worth the title of a scholar who claims other than that the Earth is round.”
Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 1328), still much earlier than the 1800s, said, “Know that it is agreed that the Earth is round-shaped. The orbits are circular as stated in the Book, the Sunnah (Prophetic tradition) and the consensus of the scholars. The word Falak (orbit) means that it is round.”
{… each in an orbit floating.} [Quran, 21:33]
No idea, i couldn’t find anything on it. There’s no Hadith directly from the Prophet regarding the Earth’s shape. It could be that it was widely known the Earth was round so no one asked about it or they knew it was flat or it could also mean that back then nobody gave a fuck about Earth’s shape. But if a scholarly consensus was formed 400 years after then it means majority of scholars during that time probably had the same belief.But Islam started around the year 600, the earliest examples you gave are about 400 years after that. So what was the general opinion during those 400 years?
In Islam there are 4 authorities: the Qur'an, the Sunnah, Qiyas (the concept of analogical reasoning) and Ijma (consensus). The Ijma is considered to be an authority according to this saying of the Prophet:And those were individual muslim scholars not the muslim authority at the time whose views can be regarded as the position of the religion as a whole.
Because if you look at the sunset from a beach it does does look like the sun is setting in a murky water. So the Qur’an narrates the state and the feelings of Zulqarnain in this way.And if the earth is a globe going around the sun in space, why would there even be a figurative mention of this sort about the sun "setting in a spring of murky water".
Earth is an oblate spheroid. The diameter is long across the equator between poles. The difference is just 0.3%. It is impossible to see the oblateness from photos taken from the space without careful measurements. It just looks round so its easier to call it round in day to day life. Imagine explaining to your child that the Earth is an oblate spheroid.people say the flat earth is round (not a sphere)
What the word orbit means isAnd for the last one, that doesn't really mean anything that the orbits are circular. The orbits of the sun and moon in the sky is circular. And the day / night is a cycle (circular), which may be a different meaning, but that doesn't prove / disprove flat earth.
No idea, i couldn’t find anything on it. There’s no Hadith directly from the Prophet regarding the Earth’s shape. It could be that it was widely known the Earth was round so no one asked about it or they knew it was flat or it could also mean that back then nobody gave a fuck about Earth’s shape. But if a scholarly consensus was formed 400 years after then it means majority of scholars during that time probably had the same belief.
In Islam there are 4 authorities: the Qur'an, the Sunnah, Qiyas (the concept of analogical reasoning) and Ijma (consensus). The Ijma is considered to be an authority according to this saying of the Prophet:
“Allah will not cause my ummah to agree on falsehood; the hand of Allah is with the jamaa‘ah (the main body of the Muslims).” At-Tirmidhi (2167)
Islam has many sects, all of them have a lot of differences with each other but on some matters all scholars of Islam from all sects agree upon therefore those things are considered to be an authority just like Quran and sayings of the Prophet.
Consensus that the Earth is round - Islam Question & Answer
www.google.com.pk
You can look up views of any actual scholars of Islam from any sect they all agree upon the fact that Earth is not flat. On the contrary you will find some muslim schizophrenics on Youtube who try to interpret Quran in their words and try to prove what apparently all the scholars couldn’t find.
Because if you look at the sunset from a beach it does does look like the sun is setting in a murky water. So the Qur’an narrates the state and the feelings of Zulqarnain in this way.
“He felt that as if the sun is drowning in the dark water.”
This is exactly what it describes. Can you explain this using the flat earth model? According to flat earthers, sun and moon are moving around over the Earth. If that was the case we will never see the sun actually set like this.
Earth is an oblate spheroid. The diameter is long across the equator between poles. The difference is just 0.3%. It is impossible to see the oblateness from photos taken from the space without careful measurements. It just looks round so its easier to call it round in day to day life. Imagine explaining to your child that the Earth is an oblate spheroid.
What the word orbit means is
“to follow a circular or elliptical path around a central body. Usually a planet, moon or satellite is described as orbiting, but a child who has too much sugar can sometimes orbit around his parents in an annoying fashion.”
In chemistry, electrons revolving around nucleas are said to be orbiting.
View attachment 1426868
So the word orbit by itself requires a central body to be in orbit. In the flat earth model, the sun and moon are not orbiting anything they are just moving in circular directions over the surface of Earth.
Every culture has strong views on the shape of the earth, no one just ignores it. There’s no way that the average Muslim for the first 400 years thought we were on a spinning “oblate spheroid” moving through space at thousands of miles per hour, while orbiting the sun, which is orbiting the galaxy, etc. And even after those 400 years, I would guess until the 1800s, the majority of Muslims believed in flat earth. All these people did was pray and go to the mosque. How could they be wrong about something as important as the shape of the earth they live on?No idea, i couldn’t find anything on it. There’s no Hadith directly from the Prophet regarding the Earth’s shape. It could be that it was widely known the Earth was round so no one asked about it or they knew it was flat or it could also mean that back then nobody gave a fuck about Earth’s shape. But if a scholarly consensus was formed 400 years after then it means majority of scholars during that time probably had the same belief.
Look at who controls Mecca today and their actions. USA Saudi and Israel are one entity now. It’s literally the house of god these people collect taxes for, people who kill Palestinians and make deals with zionists. But if you want to believe that the majority of scholars in Islam can never be wrong because of that quote, then I guess there’s no logical argument to counter that. But eventually the majority of scholars will start believing in evolution, or LGBT, or whatever is pushed by the western media. Sure, at the moment it’s a minority who support this, compared to the Vatican for example which will mirror the views of the US government, but give it time and it will be similar in Islam (if things continue the way they are going).In Islam there are 4 authorities: the Qur'an, the Sunnah, Qiyas (the concept of analogical reasoning) and Ijma (consensus). The Ijma is considered to be an authority according to this saying of the Prophet:
“Allah will not cause my ummah to agree on falsehood; the hand of Allah is with the jamaa‘ah (the main body of the Muslims).” At-Tirmidhi (2167)
Islam has many sects, all of them have a lot of differences with each other but on some matters all scholars of Islam from all sects agree upon therefore those things are considered to be an authority just like Quran and sayings of the Prophet.
Consensus that the Earth is round - Islam Question & Answer
www.google.com.pk
You can look up views of any actual scholars of Islam from any sect they all agree upon the fact that Earth is not flat. On the contrary you will find some muslim schizophrenics on Youtube who try to interpret Quran in their words and try to prove what apparently all the scholars couldn’t find.
“He felt that as if the sun is drowning in the dark water.”
This is exactly what it describes. Can you explain this using the flat earth model? According to flat earthers, sun and moon are moving around over the Earth. If that was the case we will never see the sun actually set like this.
Actually the word used was فلك. Look that up in google translate and you can see the other translations are: astronomy, sphere, orb, and circuit. Of course now that the globe earth is accepted by science, all the interpretations of this want to say it describes orbit in the same way as globe earth science, but what if the actual meaning was one of the other 4 meanings (80% chance considering there’s 5 total meanings)? Then it wouldn’t mean anything as far as proving or disproving flat earth.Earth is an oblate spheroid. The diameter is long across the equator between poles. The difference is just 0.3%. It is impossible to see the oblateness from photos taken from the space without careful measurements. It just looks round so its easier to call it round in day to day life. Imagine explaining to your child that the Earth is an oblate spheroid.
What the word orbit means is
“to follow a circular or elliptical path around a central body. Usually a planet, moon or satellite is described as orbiting, but a child who has too much sugar can sometimes orbit around his parents in an annoying fashion.”
In chemistry, electrons revolving around nucleas are said to be orbiting.
View attachment 1426868
So the word orbit by itself requires a central body to be in orbit. In the flat earth model, the sun and moon are not orbiting anything they are just moving in circular directions over the surface of Earth.
No idea, i couldn’t find anything on it. There’s no Hadith directly from the Prophet regarding the Earth’s shape. It could be that it was widely known the Earth was round so no one asked about it or they knew it was flat or it could also mean that back then nobody gave a fuck about Earth’s shape. But if a scholarly consensus was formed 400 years after then it means majority of scholars during that time probably had the same belief.
In Islam there are 4 authorities: the Qur'an, the Sunnah, Qiyas (the concept of analogical reasoning) and Ijma (consensus). The Ijma is considered to be an authority according to this saying of the Prophet:
“Allah will not cause my ummah to agree on falsehood; the hand of Allah is with the jamaa‘ah (the main body of the Muslims).” At-Tirmidhi (2167)
Islam has many sects, all of them have a lot of differences with each other but on some matters all scholars of Islam from all sects agree upon therefore those things are considered to be an authority just like Quran and sayings of the Prophet.
Consensus that the Earth is round - Islam Question & Answer
www.google.com.pk
You can look up views of any actual scholars of Islam from any sect they all agree upon the fact that Earth is not flat. On the contrary you will find some muslim schizophrenics on Youtube who try to interpret Quran in their words and try to prove what apparently all the scholars couldn’t find.
Because if you look at the sunset from a beach it does does look like the sun is setting in a murky water. So the Qur’an narrates the state and the feelings of Zulqarnain in this way.
“He felt that as if the sun is drowning in the dark water.”
This is exactly what it describes. Can you explain this using the flat earth model? According to flat earthers, sun and moon are moving around over the Earth. If that was the case we will never see the sun actually set like this.
Earth is an oblate spheroid. The diameter is long across the equator between poles. The difference is just 0.3%. It is impossible to see the oblateness from photos taken from the space without careful measurements. It just looks round so its easier to call it round in day to day life. Imagine explaining to your child that the Earth is an oblate spheroid.
What the word orbit means is
“to follow a circular or elliptical path around a central body. Usually a planet, moon or satellite is described as orbiting, but a child who has too much sugar can sometimes orbit around his parents in an annoying fashion.”
In chemistry, electrons revolving around nucleas are said to be orbiting.
View attachment 1426868
So the word orbit by itself requires a central body to be in orbit. In the flat earth model, the sun and moon are not orbiting anything they are just moving in circular directions over the surface of Earth.
Or average human for that matter. Humans in the first 400 years also didn’t thought we would be able to fly and could see and talk to person living on the other side of the planet. They obviously lacked any common sense that we have now. Most of their mind would have been too narrow to think of a sphere rotating at 1600+ kms and revolving a 100+ times bigger star filled with hydrogen and helium. The old people believed shit like witchcraft etc. That’s why some of them interpreted the Quranic verses favouring flat Earth.There’s no way that the average Muslim for the first 400 years thought we were on a spinning “oblate spheroid” moving through space at thousands of miles per hour, while orbiting the sun, which is orbiting the galaxy, etc.
I’ve already talked about how most of the 3rd and 4th generation of Islamic scholars did not believe in the flat Earth so you cannot say they were motivated by the modern interpretation of the cosmos. The following article talks about these early scholars with references in case you wanna take a look.And even after those 400 years, I would guess until the 1800s, the majority of Muslims believed in flat earth.
House of Saud is just a corrupt family. Muhammad bin Salman even opened a night club in Saudi Arabia. It’s funny that Wahhabism tries to emulate the practices of the 7th century, yet conveniently forget that Islam frowns upon hereditary monarchy. They are not an authority in Islam.Look at who controls Mecca today and their actions. USA Saudi and Israel are one entity now. It’s literally the house of god these people collect taxes for, people who kill Palestinians and make deals with zionists. But if you want to believe that the majority of scholars in Islam can never be wrong because of that quote, then I guess there’s no logical argument to counter that.
Why do you think that? Is there any example in Islamic history where muslims went against Quran and Sunnah and did Ijma on something like that? If Islamic jurisprudence was an evolving thing like Christianity then we would have made pork halal long time ago.But eventually the majority of scholars will start believing in evolution, or LGBT, or whatever is pushed by the western media.
Already explained why this isn’t true.Of course now that the globe earth is accepted by science, all the interpretations of this want to say it describes orbit in the same way as globe earth science,
You can see in that video how previous scholars interpreted the Quran as meaning the earth is flat, and then once globe science came out the interpretations coincidentally changed
I'm not anti vax per se, but I'm not getting the rona vaccine. I don't like being told what I should do. And if you're vaccinated why the fck should you care if I'm not? I like pissing people off. The people who don't mind their fckng business.I wonder whats the overlap between flat earthers and anti vax?
Yeah I mean there's nothing inherent in Islam that teaches the globe earth model. You can say that the Quran doesn't teach flat earth, but it doesn't teach globe earth either, otherwise muslims would have been believing the globe earth before scientists were involved. There's a lot of extreme ideas in the globe earth model that none of those islamic scholars believed.Or average human for that matter. Humans in the first 400 years also didn’t thought we would be able to fly and could see and talk to person living on the other side of the planet. They obviously lacked any common sense that we have now. Most of their mind would have been too narrow to think of a sphere rotating at 1600+ kms and revolving a 100+ times bigger star filled with hydrogen and helium. The old people believed shit like witchcraft etc. That’s why some of them interpreted the Quranic verses favouring flat Earth.
I looked at some of those references. The globe earth model is different from just saying the earth is a sphere. Like flat earthers believe there is a dome covering earth, combined with the bottom of the earth, it could look like a sphere anywayI’ve already talked about how most of the 3rd and 4th generation of Islamic scholars did not believe in the flat Earth so you cannot say they were motivated by the modern interpretation of the cosmos. The following article talks about these early scholars with references in case you wanna take a look.
Does the Qur’an say the earth is flat? Islamic scholarship & the multiplicity of readings approach
This article addresses the question of whether the Qur'an says the world is flat. This question is answered in a comprehensive way by referring to classical Islamic scholarship, the Qur'an and applying the multiplicity of readings approach.sapienceinstitute.org
Now its up to you to provide proof as to why do you say they all believed in flat Earth until the 1800s so we can compare whos evidence is stronger.
I don't have any reason to believe that actually, I was thinking of muslims in general rather than the scholars. Now that I think about it, the scholars have been consistent, it's the followers of the religion that have changed.Why do you think that? Is there any example in Islamic history where muslims went against Quran and Sunnah and did Ijma on something like that? If Islamic jurisprudence was an evolving thing like Christianity then we would have made pork halal long time ago.
Observable astronomy still works the same on Flat earth. It's just the theories for what's happening which variesAgain, the Quran doesn't teach that the world is flat, and I've never meet a Muslim who came away with that conclusion thats why i was so surprised to realise some people actually believe in flat Earth through this forum. Additionally Muslims have a history of looking to planetary motion to determine prayer time, and those calculations require one to believe that the world is not flat but part of a solar system.
Quite articulate for a man that smashes a hammer into his skull daily. Keep defending Islam. May Allah grant you paradise you curry munching chadOr average human for that matter. Humans in the first 400 years also didn’t thought we would be able to fly and could see and talk to person living on the other side of the planet. They obviously lacked any common sense that we have now. Most of their mind would have been too narrow to think of a sphere rotating at 1600+ kms and revolving a 100+ times bigger star filled with hydrogen and helium. The old people believed shit like witchcraft etc. That’s why some of them interpreted the Quranic verses favouring flat Earth.
I’ve already talked about how most of the 3rd and 4th generation of Islamic scholars did not believe in the flat Earth so you cannot say they were motivated by the modern interpretation of the cosmos. The following article talks about these early scholars with references in case you wanna take a look.
Does the Qur’an say the earth is flat? Islamic scholarship & the multiplicity of readings approach
This article addresses the question of whether the Qur'an says the world is flat. This question is answered in a comprehensive way by referring to classical Islamic scholarship, the Qur'an and applying the multiplicity of readings approach.sapienceinstitute.org
Now its up to you to provide proof as to why do you say they all believed in flat Earth until the 1800s so we can compare whos evidence is stronger.
House of Saud is just a corrupt family. Muhammad bin Salman even opened a night club in Saudi Arabia. It’s funny that Wahhabism tries to emulate the practices of the 7th century, yet conveniently forget that Islam frowns upon hereditary monarchy. They are not an authority in Islam.
Why do you think that? Is there any example in Islamic history where muslims went against Quran and Sunnah and did Ijma on something like that? If Islamic jurisprudence was an evolving thing like Christianity then we would have made pork halal long time ago.
Already explained why this isn’t true.
This is one of the sillier arguments against Islam and is the fallacy of the undistributed middle which is the reason you won’t see any atheist use flat earth against muslims in an actual debate.
Decoding the meaning of Quran is not something a random guy who is not even muslim nor has any background in arabic can do. You can see how he pronounces the word ‘Allah’. For instance, the word "Earth" in the Qur'an is talking about the planet/world as a whole. The word ARD is context-sensitive. Many times it means land, country, earth (as in: dirt), etc.
Qur'an is mostly concerned with the surface of the earth when talking about Earth, not the planet, because this is the part humans actually see and deal with.
Again, the Quran doesn't teach that the world is flat, and I've never meet a Muslim who came away with that conclusion thats why i was so surprised to realise some people actually believe in flat Earth through this forum. Additionally Muslims have a history of looking to planetary motion to determine prayer time, and those calculations require one to believe that the world is not flat but part of a solar system.
You’re just projecting your own beliefs on them since you, as a man living in 21st century, find these ideas extreme and hard to believe so the people living in the 15th century must have the same view.I mean even the muslim scholars didn't believe the extreme ideas that are part of the Globe Earth model, like we're spinning around in space, orbiting the sun which is 90 million miles away, while the sun is orbiting the galaxy, while the galaxy is also moving. And the moon is also orbiting us during this time.
They ARE moving. Just because we don’t see them changing from night to night doesn’t mean they aren’t moving. Take north star for example, right now its Polaris, in the time of ancient Egyptians it was another star called Thuban, which is documented. In a few thousand years it will be another star. The precession is extremely slow. You have to keep in mind how big these things are. 200km/s might seem like a lot to you but for celestial bodies its nothing.During this extreme movement and rotation in space, each night the stars still align in the same place? When the stars are supposed to also be orbiting the galaxy at extreme speeds.
Definition of scientific theory:Also gravity is just a theory, like they haven't been able to measure or detect it with modern equipment, but they teach it like it's a law of the universe.
Density is not even a force. Density is defined as how tightly or loosely packed a substance isFlat earthers say everything has density, if it's heavier than the surroundings, it goes down, otherwise it goes up. Like a helium balloon will go up, because it has a very light density, not because it's an anti gravity device. That theory makes a lot of sense to me.
No it isn’t. I can elab on this further.And then there's the whole NASA moon landings stuff which is almost certainly bs.
You’re asking explanations about solar eclipse from globe earthers? Ask flat earthers about this one lol according to their model this shouldn’t even happen in the first place.And the globe earth people don't have any explanation for this.
Aameen. You too.Quite articulate for a man that smashes a hammer into his skull daily. Keep defending Islam. May Allah grant you paradise you curry munching chad
How am I projecting my ideas onto them? I looked at the article you linked with the references of islamic scholars' views on the shape of the Earth, and they said it was round, spherical, shaped like a ball, etc. The globe earth model is much more complex than this, with ideas that were primarily developed in the 1700s / 1800s. There were completely different theories being put forward by scientists in the 1800s, and people were torn between which one was correct.You’re just projecting your own beliefs on them since you, as a man living in 21st century, find these ideas extreme and hard to believe so the people living in the 15th century must have the same view.
Watch the first 5-10 mins of this video:Definition of scientific theory:
“A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation. As with most (if not all) forms of scientific knowledge, scientific theories are inductive in nature and aim for predictive power and explanatory capability.”
The scientific method doesn't deal in facts, only theory, tests, and observations. Gravity is the theory that consistently matches our observations from testing, and no other theory is plausible. But science always leaves a door open for new evidence, and changing theories. So saying “it’s just a theory” is idiotic because scientific theory is not just an idea you had while you were on the toilet.
Density is not even a force. Density is defined as how tightly or loosely packed a substance is
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You mentioned that if its heavier than the surroundings it goes down. However, density and buoyancy don't have a vector. If you release a stone that's more dense than the air around it then it should logically go left or right or diagonal sometimes. It doesn't, instead always travel downward. This vector could be explained several ways but the only way that appears consistent is a force towards the earth aka gravity.
If I suck all the air out of a box and drop something inside it, that object still falls. Not only that, the density or even mass of that object is completely irrelevant. It all falls at the same speed 9.8m/s2. Here’s what i mean:
Now I know sending a video of the moon is not something a flat earther is going to appreciate lol so here’s the same experiment done in a vacuum chamber here on Earth.
As you can see that disregarding air resistance, all objects on Earth fall with the acceleration of 9.8m/s^2 , no matter their density or any other material property.
If gravity doesn't exist, and instead things fall because of density, ask your flat earther gurus to derive a mathematical function that takes in densities of two interacting objects as an input and gives 9.8 m/s^2 as an output for all combinations of densities.
Seriously? You believe everything NASA says officially about the moon landing, when the last time they went to the moon was, and why they haven't gone back?No it isn’t. I can elab on this further.
You’re contradicting youself. First you said the modern concept of the complex heliocentric system was established in 18th century and on the other hand you’re saying:How am I projecting my ideas onto them?
So if the concept was first born in 17/18th century how could the people from 10th century had believed it?There's a lot of extreme ideas in the globe earth model that none of those islamic scholars believed.
Like I said before that the big misconception of science is that that science finds out what is true. It actually finds out what is false. As the saying goes, "all models are wrong, but some are useful". Think of the difference: is gravity caused by the earth spinning, or gravitons, or “gremlins” as Faris said or something else? We can show lots of things that it isn't (like the FE version) but it's very hard to show definitively what it "is". So we take the most plausible theory and run with it.The guy is Firas Zahabi, a well known muslim mma trainer, who's very intelligent and also has videos with muslim youtubers discussing religion / philosophy. But I think what he's saying here with the example of gravity is relevant. You shouldn't place too much importance in scientific theories. The only thing we really have are observations. The meaning behind those observations can be changed indefinitely.
What do you mean the results have never been replicated? Most college-level physics students will replicate it. There’s hundreds of youtube videos where people have replicated it just go take a look.You linked the Cavendish Experiment before, but like I said, the results of that have never been replicated, so where is the scientific proof for the idea that all mass inherently attracts mass?
No we don’t have to see the globe with our eyes to believe it.Similar to what Firas was saying. Until we physically experience the globe earth first hand, or until enough people have that it's statistically extremely unprobeable that they are all lying, it's good to keep an open mind.
Lol first of all why is it that NASA is the only space agency that is talked about by the flat earthers. Do you guys not know that there are 72 different space agencies all over the world? Even Indians have a space agency.Seriously? You believe everything NASA says officially about the moon landing, when the last time they went to the moon was, and why they haven't gone back?
Because if you look at the sunset from a beach it does does look like the sun is setting in a murky water. So the Qur’an narrates the state and the feelings of Zulqarnain in this way.
“He felt that as if the sun is drowning in the dark water.”
This is exactly what it describes. Can you explain this using the flat earth model? According to flat earthers, sun and moon are moving around over the Earth. If that was the case we will never see the sun actually set like this.
So the word orbit by itself requires a central body to be in orbit. In the flat earth model, the sun and moon are not orbiting anything they are just moving in circular directions over the surface of Earth.
Just saying the Earth is a sphere is different from saying the earth is a spinning globe orbiting the sun, while the moon is orbiting the earth, we are all collectively orbiting the centre of the galaxy, and the sun and moon are also huge spherical masses in space etc.You’re contradicting youself. First you said the modern concept of the complex heliocentric system was established in 18th century and on the other hand you’re saying:
So if the concept was first born in 17/18th century how could the people from 10th century had believed it?
The thing with these studies is that it we only have access to the ones supporting the globe earth model. Flat earth is completely censored by all major institutions. The big tech companies censor flat earth, where if you try to search for flat earth arguments, it will show you 100 results for flat earth debunked, or posts by mainstream media trying to discredit flat earth. No institution will allow anyone to even suggest something that sounds remotely like flat earth, and doing so results in losing qualifications / funding. The internet is the primary means of public communication and sharing information with the public in today's world, and it is largely centralised around a few big tech companies. By completely censoring and discrediting one view, and promoting the other, it's impossible to have any meaningful scientific discussion. Like when you asked me how does the density theory of gravity account for the 9.8m/s^2, and why do objects go down, I didn't know. I couldn't use a search engine to find an answer, as it would result in the opposite for what I'm looking for. I tried asking flat earth accounts on insta, but a lot of them are banned / shadowbanned and I can't find them. So while the globe earth is allowed freedom of sharing ideas with modern technology which is extremely powerful, as you can have millions of people contributing to the globe model based on an established few hundred years of recorded science, the other model is like hiding underground, with hardly any resources or collaboration in comparison. Regardless of what you think about the shape of the earth, this type of censorship is completely wrong. What kind of communist shit is this? I won't just give in to authorities forcing ideas on me, and as long as they censor flat earth I will support it, even if just for the symbolism behind it.What do you mean the results have never been replicated? Most college-level physics students will replicate it. There’s hundreds of youtube videos where people have replicated it just go take a look.
The thing with disproving flat Earth isn't a lack of options but rather the opposite. There are so many thousands of experiments and observations that disprove it that you benefit by nailing down the simplest and easiest to recreate ones. Cavendish is like the novice level of gravity investigation. Since Cavendish we have far, far more accurate means and many diverse assortments of experimental device that can measure attraction between masses. So many, they require an entire literature review just to appreciate.
Invited Review Article: Measurements of the Newtonian constant of gravitation, G
By many accounts, the Newtonian constant of gravitation G is the fundamental constant that is most difficult to measure accurately. Over the past three decaip.scitation.org
Those things are completely different. I can see clearly that I have similar features to each of my parents. But also it would be statistically extremely unlikely, as the hospital staff and many of my family members would need to be involved.No we don’t have to see the globe with our eyes to believe it.
Did you see your mother give birth to you first hand? No? So how are you sure that shes really your mother? You just took your parents word for it.
Just consider going to the supermarket and buying canned soup. Do you have evidence that what’s in the can is edible? Do you know how, where and by whom this food was produced? Why are you not afraid of eating it?
Isn’t this entirely irrational? No because you do have evidence how the legal system in your country work. You know that there are regulations on what can be sold as food. You know if whats in that can was harmful to you then a lot of people along the food chain would be punished and they don’t want that.
Our trust in canned food or round Earth for that matter is an entirely reasonable inference from evidence, the evidence that we collected from our sensory input.
Look up the cost of going to the moon. It's 280 billion in today's money (adjusted for inflation). That is absolutely nothing. It's peanuts. Maybe in Pakistan it's a lot, as Pakistan has a GDP of 263 billion, but the USA has a GDP of 20 TRILLION. Look at how much Tesla as a company is worth: 1 TRILLION. A private company that makes electric cars could afford to go the moon at least three times. And that's with the technologies from the 1960s. Every other technology has gotten better and cheaper, like a shitty phone used to cost a couple thousand dollars in the 90s, now for half the price you can get a phone that's like an alien technology in comparison. So with the moon landing, the cost should now be much less than 280 billion since there's a much longer time gap to the 60s. And the US government just gave out 2 trillion to the public during covid. They gave EACH PERSON 2k and then 1.4k stimulus checks. They gave away 2 trillion but they don't have 200 billion to spend to go back to the moon with today's technology? It's hard to debate the science of flat earth as someone without a scientific background, but these are simple and logical facts. If we went to the moon in 1969 then there's no logical reason we shouldn't be on it right now. Not to mention that they live streamed the moon mission? That sounds like the biggest hoax ever.Lol first of all why is it that NASA is the only space agency that is talked about by the flat earthers. Do you guys not know that there are 72 different space agencies all over the world? Even Indians have a space agency.
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And secondly about why they haven’t went back to the moon?
Well, going to the moon is neither easy nor cheap. There's also no immediate return on investment - it was more of a status thing back then when USSR was clearly ahead of USA when it came to space exploration. They had put the first satellite in orbit, the first man in orbit - hell, they put the first woman in orbit in the early 60s (the US wouldn't send a woman into space until the 80s). The US was motivated in the 1960s because they wanted their political and economic system to be seen as the best in the world, and especially better than the alternative that the Soviet Union was offering. This was during the Cold War and such perceptions were seen as very serious business.
So the US was both capable and motivated, and their motivation was to do something nobody else had done to prove they were the best. Nobody else had both the motivation and ability once the US already did it. Something can only be accomplished for the first time once.
In this day, no one else wants to pony up the tens of billions needed to do it when there's not much to gain right now. If we went to another planetary body it’d most likely be Mars and Elon Musk is already on it.
About the sun,
Sunsets would work like this on a flat Earth:
[Yes I time stamped it]
This is his whole section from @6:30-13:00 on how the sun and moon work:
“Um yeah we also have scientific studies supporting flat Earth but they are censored by the big bad tech companies”The thing with these studies is that it we only have access to the ones supporting the globe earth model. Flat earth is completely censored by all major institutions. The big tech companies censor flat earth,
Interesting. And at the same time it doesn’t seem extremely unlikely to you that all governments, space agencies, geologist, physicists, astronomers, pilots, navigators who use spherical Earth to get around, everyone who works in communications technology, architects (since they have to keep in view the curvature of the Earth while making bridges) are all involved in this globe Earth lie.I can see clearly that I have similar features to each of my parents. But also it would be statistically extremely unlikely, as the hospital staff and many of my family members would need to be involved.
Name those 20 topics which they censored and which came out to be true.Also when you have an establishment which has censored 20 topics in the past, and 20 of them have turned out to be true, it's basic probability theory to assume that whatever they censor next is also true.
You might think that as technology improves space travel becomes cheaper and i suppose it does a little bit, but as nowhere near the same rate as lets say... electronics.Every other technology has gotten better and cheaper, like a shitty phone used to cost a couple thousand dollars in the 90s, now for half the price you can get a phone that's like an alien technology in comparison.
If you had a background in science you wouldn’t be a flat earther.It's hard to debate the science of flat earth as someone without a scientific background, but these are simple and logical facts.
“Most people understood going to the moon as a great adventure. And how many times are they going to pay for it when the plot’s the same every time?” - James Burke, Connections.If we went to the moon in 1969 then there's no logical reason we shouldn't be on it right now. Not to mention that they live streamed the moon mission? That sounds like the biggest hoax ever.
I've never seen you get so heated on a subject like this beforeFlat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.
A small sun on the surface of Earth would simply recede high in the sky and get smaller and smaller until it fades away. It absolutely would not retain the same angular size and set below the horizon. That’s a fact. No wonder where you are on the Earth.
At 12:15 mark he talks about ‘atmospheric lensing’ and says that the reason we see sun go down is because of water molecules in air. How do all those water molecules that make up around 1% of the atmosphere produce thousand times greater refractive effect then actual liquid water? Explain how this only applies to sun and nothing else? Why does the sun behave this way? Show me a projectile or a plane going below the horizon as it recedes. Have you ever seen a plane in the sky moving away from you and just recedes into the horizon while retaining the same size? Why doesn’t this refraction seem to work on it?
“Um yeah we also have scientific studies supporting flat Earth but they are censored by the big bad tech companies”
How convenient.
Interesting. And at the same time it doesn’t seem extremely unlikely to you that all governments, space agencies, geologist, physicists, astronomers, pilots, navigators who use spherical Earth to get around, everyone who works in communications technology, architects (since they have to keep in view the curvature of the Earth while making bridges) are all involved in this globe Earth lie.
Name those 20 topics which they censored and which came out to be true.
You might think that as technology improves space travel becomes cheaper and i suppose it does a little bit, but as nowhere near the same rate as lets say... electronics.
The amount of exotic metals and crazy materials required for space vessels is crazy. That stuff doesn’t get cheaper over time, if anything it gets more expensive.
Even when it comes to cheaper things associated with space travel, standards must be kept higher than pretty much any other project on Earth. One bad O-ring and its all over... You can bet after all the testing and safety that goes into an O-ring NASA uses now, it effectively costs probably 10 or 100x more than the O-rings in your car. Now imagine that attention to detail is applied to EVERY SINGLE THING in the fucking spaceship.
If you had a background in science you wouldn’t be a flat earther.
“Most people understood going to the moon as a great adventure. And how many times are they going to pay for it when the plot’s the same every time?” - James Burke, Connections.
NASA’s budget is currently about 0.5% of the federal budget. During the height of the Apollo program that figure was about 5%. You guys make NASA as some evil, rich manipulative agency that is running the world from the shadows but in reality they are begging for funding since they can’t do what they wanna do due to funding constraints.
Each Apollo landing (not mission, landing) cost $20B. To put that into perspective, that’s more than NASA’s entire budget this year alone. NASA’s budget pales in comparison to many other things the government spends money on.
Anyhow, explain to me why there are reflectors on the moon if no one ever went there.
Lunar Laser Ranging experiments - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
It’s used to measure how far away the moon is. According to the measurements, the moon has been moving about 1 and 1/2 inches away from Earth each year.
I have a lot of knowledge on this subject. I’m a giga spacecel.I've never seen you get so heated on a subject like this before
Jfl if don’t think that’s a valid reason then you don’t understand the significance.“Um yeah we also have scientific studies supporting flat Earth but they are censored by the big bad tech companies”
How convenient.
Actually one of the big things that made me take flat earth seriously was the videos of pilots, architects, and bridge builders saying first hand how the earth was flat. I would find those for you, but the big bad tech companies censor flat earth. I’m sure you understand.Interesting. And at the same time it doesn’t seem extremely unlikely to you that all governments, space agencies, geologist, physicists, astronomers, pilots, navigators who use spherical Earth to get around, everyone who works in communications technology, architects (since they have to keep in view the curvature of the Earth while making bridges) are all involved in this globe Earth lie.
I just mentioned 7. And by came true, I mean they censor it in one direction, but anybody who looks into these issues (which are nowhere near as complex as flat earth), can see that the reality is the opposite of what they’re censoring. A more recent extreme example of something that actually came true in the real world after they were censoring it, were covid conspiracy theorists who were predicting mandatory vaccine passports and more lockdowns, saying people wouldn’t be able to participate in society without their vaccine passports. I’ve seen people saying this first hand since April 2020, and one by one I’ve seen them be banned for misinformation. And then 16 months later, France, Canada, and some US states have vaccine passports. Austria has announced mandatory vaccination for everyone from February.Name those 20 topics which they censored and which came out to be true.
They have money for whatever they want. Jfl if you think the US just went to the moon and decided they discovered all there is to know, and it would be a waste of money to go there again or stay there. The government is obsessed with science. They have research in things we can’t even imagine.You might think that as technology improves space travel becomes cheaper and i suppose it does a little bit, but as nowhere near the same rate as lets say... electronics.
The amount of exotic metals and crazy materials required for space vessels is crazy. That stuff doesn’t get cheaper over time, if anything it gets more expensive.
Even when it comes to cheaper things associated with space travel, standards must be kept higher than pretty much any other project on Earth. One bad O-ring and its all over... You can bet after all the testing and safety that goes into an O-ring NASA uses now, it effectively costs probably 10 or 100x more than the O-rings in your car. Now imagine that attention to detail is applied to EVERY SINGLE THING in the fucking spaceship.
If you had a background in science you wouldn’t be a flat earther.
“Most people understood going to the moon as a great adventure. And how many times are they going to pay for it when the plot’s the same every time?” - James Burke, Connections.
NASA’s budget is currently about 0.5% of the federal budget. During the height of the Apollo program that figure was about 5%. You guys make NASA as some evil, rich manipulative agency that is running the world from the shadows but in reality they are begging for funding since they can’t do what they wanna do due to funding constraints.
Each Apollo landing (not mission, landing) cost $20B. To put that into perspective, that’s more than NASA’s entire budget this year alone. NASA’s budget pales in comparison to many other things the government spends money on.