Are there any predictable, safe Osteotomies for midface / cheekbones?

[Deleted member 2816]

Not a fan of implants. We know Bimax can fix lower third recession, but what is the Bimax equivalent for the midface? I know there’s mlf3 and Zso but no one seems to get them? Why is this? There must be a better alternative than stuffing plastic in your face in 2023 to fix midface recession

Edit: do not suggest fillers, or polymer implants.
If there is stuff that you can use to augement cheekbones that is indistinguishable to bone, I’m interested

 

[Deleted member 18582]

because mlf3 is for clinically deformed people, and zso results tend to pale in comparison to custom infraorbital-malar implants

Why are you not a fan of implants in general? Custom inframalars are the gold standard for augmenting this area in 2023

And not plastic, you can get PEEK. If your aversion to implants is the idea that you have foreign material in your face, note that with any osteotomy you'll be having screws and plates put in. Hardly more "natural"

 

[Deleted member 2816]

because mlf3 is for clinically deformed people, and zso results tend to pale in comparison to custom infraorbital-malar implants

Why are you not a fan of implants in general? Custom inframalars are the gold standard for augmenting this area in 2023

And not plastic, you can get PEEK. If your aversion to implants is the idea that you have foreign material in your face, note that with any osteotomy you'll be having screws and plates put in. Hardly less "natural"

Once the bone unifies you can remove the plates and screws. That’s why I prefer it. It truly does become ‘you’. Plastic, polymers like PEEK are the same thing imo. I would like material that becomes indistinguishable to bone. That must be on the horizon.

Why is mlf3 saved for deformed patients?

 

[Artemis]

Not a fan of implants. We know Bimax can fix lower third recession, but what is the Bimax equivalent for the midface? I know there’s mlf3 and Zso but no one seems to get them? Why is this? There must be a better alternative than stuffing plastic in your face in 2023 to fix midface recession

No, you idiot.

If you want cheekobones, do fillers. The best solution by far. Unless you need some experimental crazy shit, like saddles, or reducing bug eyes.

 

[Deleted member 2816]

No, you idiot.

If you want cheekobones, do fillers. The best solution by far. Unless you need some experimental crazy shit, like saddles, or reducing bug eyes.

idc about fillers n shit, that’s temporary fuck that. Once I’m done looksmaxxing I just want to crack on with my life, not worry about topping up every few months jfl

 

[Deleted member 18582]

Once the bone unifies you can remove the plates and screws. That’s why I prefer it. It truly does become ‘you’. Plastic, polymers like PEEK are the same thing imo. I would like material that becomes indistinguishable to bone. That must be on the horizon.

Why is mlf3 saved for deformed patients?

I don't know but in any case I think the aesthetic result should be weighed more highly than the means by which it is achieved assuming health and functional risks are equal. Your body is already pumped full of high fructose corn syrup, what more will 1mg of peek do in your body.

Because MLF3 is very invasive and the risks outweigh the benefits, functional or aesthetic, for those who are not deformed. Anything you might need it to do can be done with a number of other surgeries

No, you idiot.

If you want cheekobones, do fillers. The best solution by far. Unless you need some experimental crazy shit, like saddles, or reducing bug eyes.

Are there even any cases of saddled infra implants touching the optic nerve and causing blindness?

 

[Artemis]

idc about fillers n shit, that’s temporary fuck that. Once I’m done looksmaxxing I just want to crack on with my life, not worry about topping up every few months jfl

Dude, are you retarded?

Looksmaxxing is a LIFE LONG PROCESS. Fucking low-IQ greycels

You think u will do your implants and never looksmax anymore?

how about implant extrusion with age? what you gonna do when this happens? Rope?

 

[Deleted member 2816]

Dude, are you retarded?

Looksmaxxing is a LIFE LONG PROCESS. Fucking low-IQ greycels

You think u will do your implants and never looksmax anymore?

how about implant extrusion with age? what you gonna do when this happens? Rope?

THATS EXACTLY WHY I DONT WANT IMPLANTS, you idiot. I want bone, which will stay with me through life with basic maintenance such as exercise good nutrition and chewing. Not having to worry about exactly the bullshit you have just described. Thanks for confirming my beliefs about implants being stupid over the long term

 

[Artemis]

THATS EXACTLY WHY I DONT WANT IMPLANTS, you idiot. I want bone, which will stay with me through life with basic maintenance such as exercise good nutrition and chewing. Not having to worry about exactly the bullshit you have just described. Thanks for confirming my beliefs about implants being stupid over the long term

You annoying greycel...

BONE RECESSES WITH AGE.

YOU will NOT HAVE the same cheekbones, even if they were advanced with an osteotomy, at 50 as you have them right after the operation at 20.

you INEVitABLY have to do maintenance.

 

[Deleted member 2816]

I don't know but in any case I think the aesthetic result should be weighed more highly than the means by which it is achieved assuming health and functional risks are equal. Your body is already pumped full of high fructose corn syrup, what more will 1mg of peek do in your body.

Because MLF3 is very invasive and the risks outweigh the benefits, functional or aesthetic, for those who are not deformed. Anything you might need it to do can be done with a number of other surgeries


Are there even any cases of saddled infra implants touching the optic nerve and causing blindness?

bro just repeating what he’s heard. What are the ACTUAL risks? Like what are the PROBABILITY of them? Your just fear mongering and failing to provide any real value here

 

[Deleted member 2816]

You annoying greycel...

BONE RECESSES WITH AGE.

YOU will NOT HAVE the same cheekbones, even if they were advanced with an osteotomy, at 50 as you have them right after the operation at 20.

you INEVitABLY have to do maintenance.

Basically, you can’t answer my original question. So get lost. Bro using greycel as if it’s an actual insult. You’re a bum, I actually have ascension plans and have shit booked already, I know what the fuck I’m doing, the last thing I’m trying to find is a solution for is the midface, and then I’m getting the duck out of here

 

[Deleted member 18582]

bro just repeating what he’s heard. What are the ACTUAL risks? Like what are the PROBABILITY of them? Your just fear mongering and failing to provide any real value here

then why are you asking? if you want numbers just go read journals, im not an expert

 

[Artemis]

Basically, you can’t answer my original question. So get lost. Bro using greycel as if it’s an actual insult. You’re a bum, I actually have ascension plants and have shit booked already, I know what the fuck I’m doing, the last thing I’m trying to find is a solution for is the midface, and then I’m getting the duck out of here

Ok, ok, sorry... i was just trolling you. Forgive my ignorance. Also, "greycel" is not much of an insult, just a casual way to troll a person with little knowledge on the subject.

I truly cannot answer your original question, because i am not mentally ill like you, so i know about risk-benefits ratios

Hope you the best, and c u back here when you finally look like this:

 

[Deleted member 2816]

then why are you asking? if you want numbers just go read journals, im not an expert

i am asking because I was hoping to attract users with novel information, not the same muh it’s dangerous blah blah with no actual proof

 

[Deleted member 2816]

Ok, ok, sorry... i was just trolling you. Forgive my ignorance. Also, "greycel" is not much of an insult, just a casual way to troll a person with little knowledge on the subject.

I truly cannot answer your original question, because i am not mentally ill like you, so i know about risk-benefits ratios

Hope you the best, and c u back here when you finally look like this:

View attachment 2308720

If anyone’s ending up like that is you buddy with your fillers and implants obsession

 

[alriodai]

Dude, are you retarded?

Looksmaxxing is a LIFE LONG PROCESS. Fucking low-IQ greycels

You think u will do your implants and never looksmax anymore?

how about implant extrusion with age? what you gonna do when this happens? Rope?

that's the worst mistake of ppl looksmaxxing
not being patient and getting pressered into doing several shit in the same time/ small period of time

 

[rand anon]

Zso?

Edit: Nevermind jfl

 

[Deleted member 29167]

You annoying greycel...

BONE RECESSES WITH AGE.

YOU will NOT HAVE the same cheekbones, even if they were advanced with an osteotomy, at 50 as you have them right after the operation at 20.

you INEVitABLY have to do maintenance.

you cant really call a greycel who joined in 2019 an actual greycel tbh

 

[rand anon]

note that with any osteotomy you'll be having screws and plates put in. Hardly more "natural"

Can't the screws and plates be removed once bone grows in?

 

[SubHumanHere]

Not a fan of implants. We know Bimax can fix lower third recession, but what is the Bimax equivalent for the midface? I know there’s mlf3 and Zso but no one seems to get them? Why is this? There must be a better alternative than stuffing plastic in your face in 2023 to fix midface recession

Edit: do not suggest fillers, or polymer implants.
If there is stuff that you can use to augement cheekbones that is indistinguishable to bone, I’m interested

Get implants and you are good, now depends on wich designer, material, surgeon.

 

[king_of_recession]

Yes, they can be removed once the bones done healing. But many people ignore that cause its one more surgery to get

Can't the screws and plates be removed once bone grows in?

 

[Deleted member 18582]

Can't the screws and plates be removed once bone grows in?

Yes

I just cringe at implantphobia because of it being less "natural" because Plastic.

all cosmetic surgery is unnatural, theyre butchering your face and moving shit around adding shit in and taking it out. beyond me why anyone cares about that. the only "natural" I care about is if the result is visually natural

 

[rand anon]

YOU will NOT HAVE the same cheekbones, even if they were advanced with an osteotomy, at 50 as you have them right after the operation at 20.

you INEVitABLY have to do maintenance

even if u take copious amounts of d3 and k2???

 

[Deleted member 18582]

i am asking because I was hoping to attract users with novel information, not the same muh it’s dangerous blah blah with no actual proof

I dont even bother looking for proof because the fact almost all surgeons categorically refuse to do lf2 or greater on anyone who does not have hypoplasia is proof enough for me

if you are truly looking for expert advice, i would recommend you email maxillofacial surgeons and ask if they are willing to do it, and if not why not

 

[Artemis]

even if u take copious amounts of d3 and k2???

If it were possible with just d3, i bet we would have a lot more immortal Terminators walking around at 50 looking 18 years old...

 

[Artemis]

that's the worst mistake of ppl looksmaxxing
not being patient and getting pressered into doing several shit in the same time/ small period of time

Also the reason, why "looksmaxxing" is a RICH-MAN-HOBBY.

As they say: "There are no ugly people, just poor ones"

Simply because rich people DO HAVE resources to play this never-ending game

 

[rand anon]

If it were possible with just d3, i bet we would have a lot more immortal Terminators walking around at 50 looking 18 years old...

but their visible aging is due mostly to collagen loss though, right? Didn't know bone loss through aging would be that major

 

[Deleted member 2816]

but their visible aging is due mostly to collagen loss though, right? Didn't know bone loss through aging would be that major

Don’t listen to this guy. Bone degradation can be prevented with proper nutrition and diet but you do need some sort of stimulus on the bones for example chewing or facial exercise

 

[Artemis]

but their visible aging is due mostly to collagen loss though, right? Didn't know bone loss through aging would be that major

No. This is only a small part. Other big players are:

1) Displacement of fat compartments in the face: the fat does not stay where it is supposed to be. The ligaments weaken with age. Face sags.
2) FAT LOSS in the face. Youthful face has a LOT MORE FAT in the face than an old one. e.g. orbital fat is lost: people have deeper-set eyes as they age: their eyes sink in.
3) Skin laxity. It is not the same as collagen even though it is related. It is when the skin hangs.
4) Bone resorption/recession. ALL BONES in the body lose their volume with age. Fillers were actually initially invented to ocunteract this ageing effect.
5) Collagen loss. This mostly related to skin thinness and wrinkles, coloring. this is actually the simplest to fix with modern tech. They have those cool lasers like CO2 that can restore quite some of this stuff, and re-tighten the skin, boosting the collagen.

 

[Artemis]

Bone degradation can be prevented with proper nutrition and diet but you do need some sort of stimulus on the bones for example chewing or facial exercise

Literally EVERY LOW-IQ FAGGOT before they hit 40

 

[Deleted member 2816]

Literally EVERY LOW-IQ FAGGOT before they hit 40

View attachment 2308831

Choose to ignore the second half of what i said

 

[Artemis]

Choose to ignore the second half of what i said

The second part was even LOWER-IQ than the first part.

I thought you did not want embarass yourself even more, so did not emphasize it

 

[Deleted member 2816]

The second part was even LOWER-IQ than the first part.

I thought you did not want embarass yourself even more, so did not emphasize it

You lot seem to think that facial bone operates differently to bone elsewhere in the body. If you want to maintain bone mass in the body guess what you do? You lift weights, yet you seem to think just because it’s on the face, that concept doesn’t applyZ

 

[Artemis]

You lot seem to think that facial bone operates differently to bone elsewhere in the body. If you want to maintain bone mass in the body guess what you do? You lift weights, yet you seem to think just because it’s on the face, that concept doesn’t applyZ

Oh WOW WHAT A REVELATION, pretending like your face can do a deadlift

Also, your bones EVERYWHERE LOSE MASS. Exercise just slows down this process. No matter how much you lift, you just slightly slo the inevitable ageing process and bone loss.

 

[Deleted member 2816]

Oh WOW WHAT A REVELATION, pretending like your face can do a deadlift

Also, your bones EVERYWHERE LOSE MASS. Exercise just slows down this process. No matter how much you lift, you just slightly slo the inevitable ageing process and bone loss.

You can do resistance training on the face using your hands. And chewing is also a form of that too. Nope you can gain back bone mass if the stimulus is enough, hence wolffs law

 

[Artemis]

You can do resistance training on the face using your hands. And chewing is also a form of that too. Nope you can gain back bone mass if the stimulus is enough, hence wolffs law

 

[Deleted member 2816]

Your adversity to implants is very dumb btw.

Whys that

 

[Deleted member 2816]

Zygo osteotomies are in the 0.0001% of extreme surgeries.

Mostly because no surgeon does them. The orbital area is so delicate that the risk is only acceptable when treating severely deformed patients.

There are some techniques that avoid the orbital floor such as ZSO, but they're still only done by like 1 or 2 guys in the world

might have to enquire about zso

 

[Deleted member 19957]

You can try hydroxyapatite, if someone still does that somewhere, idk. All the results i've seen are beyond trash tho, they end up with weird ass marble looking excrescences.

The rest is either silicon implants (low iq), peek or titanium.

Btw zso makes you look feminine af, i've never seen a masculine esthetic result.

 

[Deleted member 2816]

Firstly you seem to prize bone health above everything, but osteotomies are a permanent trauma to your bone density. In adults, they will never reach the density and strength from before the procedure.

Then, osteotomies have limitations. If your bones lack definition, you can only cut them and move them forward, instead of ADDING definition like implants can.
Implants are way more precise and customizable regarding results.

Bones by definition have definition, if they don’t that just means you’re fat.

Proof of the bones never regaining their strength again? I would think the bone grow back even stronger when you think about wolfs lw

 

[rand anon]

Bones by definition have definition, if they don’t that just means you’re fat.

What he’s saying is they can’t just add mass that doesn’t already exist, they can only move bone around

would think the bone grow back even stronger when you think about wolfs lw

Yeah same

 

[Deleted member 2816]

What he’s saying is they can’t just add mass that doesn’t already exist, they can only move bone around

Moving the bone around does add mass because the new bone forms in the gap.

I just want bone grafting to become a thing so we can do away with polymers

 

[Deleted member 2816]

Wolf's law applies to like when you're exercising

Not when you slice your bones with a knife

It's a common scientific misconception

The Claim: After Being Broken, Bones Can Become Even Stronger. (Published 2010)

Wolff”s law, which holds that human bone grows and strengthens under pressure and weakens when barely put to use, goes only so far.

www.nytimes.com

Do Broken Bones Heal Stronger? | Hackensack Meridian Health

Learn how broken bones heal. Discover ways to strengthen bones naturally. Dr. Lu offers expert advice. Call 800-822-8905 for an appointment.

www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org

This doesn’t say it will get weaker though. It getting weaker just has no common sense at all anyway. Especially if you’re young when it happens

 

[rand anon]

Moving the bone around does add mass because the new bone forms in the gap.

yeah I suppose, but the gaps created by osteotomies aren’t as drastic compared to the mass added by implants. And it seems through osteotomies u can only add forward mass to bigger surface areas like either the mandible and/or maxilla, not more targeted areas like just the cheekbones/paranasal. Zso just moves the cheekbones up, doesn’t add forward projection

 

[rand anon]

I just want bone grafting to become a thing so we can do away with polymers

That would be awesome

 

[malicieusss]

Once the bone unifies you can remove the plates and screws. That’s why I prefer it. It truly does become ‘you’. Plastic, polymers like PEEK are the same thing imo. I would like material that becomes indistinguishable to bone. That must be on the horizon.

Why is mlf3 saved for deformed patients?

Lyophilized cartilage implants.

 

[Intricately]

Zso just moves the cheekbones up, doesn’t add forward projection

The amount of stupidity and lack of knowledge on this forum is baffling.

Problem is that people make up facts instead of actually talking to surgeons like Z.
It's not that you leave this forum having learned nothing, its that you leave this forum having ALL the wrong information lmao.

ZSO can add frontal and lateral projection by 10 mm or more, depending on your skull. It can make the cheekbones somewhat higher by positioning the bone graft higher.
I will not argue with anyone about this fact and quoted by Dr Z.

 

[rand anon]

The amount of stupidity and lack of knowledge on this forum is baffling.

Problem is that people make up facts instead of actually talking to surgeons like Z.
It's not that you leave this forum having learned nothing, its that you leave this forum having ALL the wrong information lmao.

ZSO can add frontal and lateral projection by 10 mm or more, depending on your skull. It can make the cheekbones somewhat higher by positioning the bone graft higher.
I will not argue with anyone about this fact and quoted by Dr Z.