Attraction Ambiguity and IOI copes

[Deleted member 19865]

The biggest problem I've experienced when it comes to trying to get a gf is attraction ambiguity. "Just be confident bro." doesn't cut it in today's dating marketplace (obviously), and it's a really dumb idea to go around cold approaching females at random unless you want to be the laughing stock of that place, or worse yet, get kicked out of wherever you're at for sexual harassment. There has to be mutual attraction. The issue is that finding out if a woman is attracted to you takes a lot more than these so-called "indicators of interest" (IOIs).

I'm always hearing people in PUA circles talk about IOIs like they're gospel, when it's pretty obvious that most IOIs are bullshit. Most of them sound like absolute copes.

Here's some examples:​

• "If she stares at you then that means she's into you! How do you know if a female would be attracted to you?"

She probably just happens to be looking in your direction.

• "If she adjusts her hair it's an IOI"

She might not be thinking about you, or she could just be adjusting her hair to adjust her hair.

• "If she's sticking around in your general vicinity, then she's into you."

Depends on context, but it's usually just coincidence that she's around you, especially if it's a cold environment such as a store or gym.

"But what if you get enough of these IOIs that it becomes obvious?"​

Then you're still fucked. What you gonna do, randomly talk to her in some kind of forced conversation? If she isn't disinterested in you already, she will be after that. Literally no point unless you're an extroverted hyper-NT chad.

The reality is that there's no knowing if a female is attracted to you unless she's explicit about it, and there's no point in approaching unless you know her enough to talk to her. My conclusion is that the only way to actually know if she's attracted to you enough to approach is to become part of her social circle and receive a strong pattern of actual indicators of interest or verbal confirmation of attraction from her or her friends. Only then can you approach.*

*There's an exception for Chads of course, who females will simply throw themselves at, but my point still stands.



TL;DR: Cold IOIs are copes.

 

[Deleted member 24444]

dnr

 

[efidescontinuado]

If she is into you, yo will know

 

[Deleted member 19865]

dnr

TL;DR: Cold IOIs are copes.

If she is into you, yo will know

Agree, but could you explain how?

 

[Deleted member 24444]

TL;DR: Cold IOIs are copes.

Agree, but could you explain how?

Actually did read and agree, probably if you see a stacy you don't give her IOIs and women are the same

 

[efidescontinuado]

TL;DR: Cold IOIs are copes.

Agree, but could you explain how?

You will catch the girl staring you a lot, she's gonna try to get your attention, she will get nervous around you etc..

 

[Deleted member 19865]

she's gonna try to get your attention

How so?

 

[Deleted member 19865]

Actually did read and agree, probably if you see a stacy you don't give her IOIs and women are the same

Men giving IOIs has become boarderline taboo in today's sad world. Shit like cat calling or even looking at females the wrong way is now deemed sexual harassment (unless you're a chad ).

 

[Stunged]

is it ioi if she tells you multiple times to your face that she thinks your hot

 

[Deleted member 21735]

If she likes tou she will tell you

 

[Deleted member 19865]

is it ioi if she tells you multiple times to your face that she thinks your hot

yes, and as a bonus it breaks the ice you can just get to the point and ask for her number or some shit

 

[Stunged]

yes, and as a bonus it breaks the ice you can just get to the point and ask for her number or some shit

too much work i will just call her a slut

 

[GuyFromSingapore]

NO INCEL, IF A GIRL FINDS YOU ATTRACTIVE THEN SHE WILL GIVE YOU IOIS.

THESE ARE JUST FACTS, INCEL.

THATS CALLED BEING EMOTIONALLY INTELLIGENT/SOCIALLY ADEPT.

 

[Deleted member 19865]

NO INCEL, IF A GIRL FINDS YOU ATTRACTIVE THEN SHE WILL GIVE YOU IOIS.

THESE ARE JUST FACTS, INCEL.

THATS CALLED BEING EMOTIONALLY INTELLIGENT/SOCIALLY ADEPT.

Even when I think I'm getting IOIs, I come to my senses and realize that they're just copes.

IRL example (from this week):
>be at gym
>foid stares at me, I stare back as I walk past
>see foid working out behind me, facing my direction
>think "wow, maybe I'm getting IOIs!"
>Continue working out
>leave
Next day
>Go to gym
>see same female, decides to work out right next to me
>think "WOW MAYBE I'M GETTING IOIs!"
>keep lifting for 30 min
>she leaves
This same exact story has happened multiple times with different women, but at the end of the day, the "IOI's" that I was perceiving in my head were just wishful thinking from the irrational coomer part of my brain. Because I am conscious of that fact, I save myself the humiliation and never approach.

 

[Primalsplit]

Even when I think I'm getting IOIs, I come to my senses and realize that they're just copes.

IRL example (from this week):
>be at gym
>foid stares at me, I stare back as I walk past
>see foid working out behind me, facing my direction
>think "wow, maybe I'm getting IOIs!"
>Continue working out
>leave
Next day
>Go to gym
>see same female, decides to work out right next to me
>think "WOW MAYBE I'M GETTING IOIs!"
>keep lifting for 30 min
>she leaves
This same exact story has happened multiple times with different women, but at the end of the day, the "IOI's" that I was perceiving in my head were just wishful thinking from the irrational coomer part of my brain. Because I am conscious of that fact, I save myself the humiliation and never approach.

Well, you are probably getting IOIs then, but it's more on the level of you seeing a 6/10 and checking her out a little bit while not exactly wanting to go much further. You're the 6/10 here. They find looking at you a positive experience, but they don't go crazy for you. Otherwise they'd approach.

You are correct in the OP as well. This stuff will be a bit forced if you decide talk. But you can actually turn these into legit dates and hookups. You need to run what is called "the natural" game. Which is basically to be giga NT as you said. I trained myself to learn it, despite not being NT myself. It works, until you lose focus or relax a bit too much with the girl; then the non-NT part comes out and they leave (yea shits brutal). But as long as you can keep it up, you should be good to go.

I did this and I went on a date. I fucked up on the date due to non NT at the end. So that's why I shifted my focus to mental health. I also went through an almost hookup, but fucked up due to being a major sperg. Those were my 2 major attempts. In minor ones, whenever I deviated from the NT gameplan, it ended as well. It's pure NT I tell you. There is no success rate based on chance, it's pure NT pill.

 

[Deleted member 19865]

I trained myself to learn it, despite not being NT myself.

I'm intrigued. How tf did you become giga-NT? I could only achieve giga-NT status while drunk, and the one time it almost led to something I ended up falling flat on my face since I didn't have a snapchat account to give to the girl.

 

[Primalsplit]

I'm intrigued. How tf did you become giga-NT? I could only achieve giga-NT status while drunk, and the one time it almost led to something I ended up falling flat on my face since I didn't have a snapchat account to give to the girl.

I went towards the embrace your uniqueness (weirdness) at least feel NT and kinda disregard trying to come off as normal. It was the advice from Tyler's vids (Real Social Dynamics). And if you've seen the guy, he's a ultra giga sperg. So I figured if I tried it, it might work. And whenever something weird happens, you play it giga cool; holding frame basically. Undertone giving the mesdage "Hey it is cool. We can be goofy and whatever. It is ok."

Now did it not blow up in my face more than enough? It sure did when I insulted the wrong person or brought bad vibes. But I was also reaching highs I would not thought possible before (not just for me, but for anyone else). I was not getting any action or interaction whatsoever before due to playing safe and slow, so this was a major improvement for me at the time.

Now I realize it's all about bringing positive vibes to the correct persons. If you make someone the butt of the joke, it's ok too if he can't do anything about it without losing "social credit points".

It's actually all about this "social credit points". You can go to a couple, flirt with the girl (good vibes) while berating the guy (bad vibes) if that's how you feel like itat the moment. The trick is not really to analyze, but "roam" with your feelings. When you can tap into your "free flow" state due to feeling extremely good, others will feel extremely good too through emotional diffusion. You will come off as giga charming, like a free soul free from worldly constraints, a mythical presence basically.


But the important part that actually determined my success was actually in the part I choosed to forget: analysis. Let's go back to the example I used earlier: the couple I flirted (the girl) and teased (the guy).

Reason why this interaction goes well and comes off as a positive vibe even if it goes in front of other people is because of the underlying context. Almost all couples right now are in the favor of the woman. In the power struggle, woman have won. He probably felt insecure due to some past transgression here, the girl having a little too much banter with a guy there, perhaps a kiss on the cheek from her 'male' friend there etc. But he couldn't do anything about it. Maybe brought it up to her but got brushed off. Or maybe he "hamstered" it away. But since he failed to correct this behaviour or broke it off, he is now in the inferior position and on a forced slippedy slope. The thing about submissives is, they can't defend their rights without making a scene that easily. So he can't challenge you. To do so, is to bring all the anger from the past as well and that's bad vibes. We can't do that here. How dare you be non-NT? Especially in public! You autistic boyfriend.

Yeah he shuts up and fucking takes it like a bitch. Even if he decides to have none of it and leaves, he is still going to be seen like a joke. Only a giga emotionally strong man can be able to come off as emotionally strong enough while not looking butthurt by not going too far. But if he was that strong, he wouldn't be in this place.

If we go back to the girl, the dominant person in this equation besides yourself; it is pleasing to her becuse:
1-A guy desires her. Net positive.
2-The boyfriend is with her, no risk of anything happening right now even if the guy is ugly. Feels safe.
3-Since her bf is a little bitch and she knows it, she resents him ("he makes me look bad. I should be someone who has secured a stronger man not this little bitch"). She likes it when he is reminded of how pathetic he is either for the sake of humiliative revenge or because he will finally get fed up and man up, thus fixing the problem of being a little bitch. Thus fixing her problem of being the gf of a little bitch.

And lastly the crowd just doesn't care that much. They just wanna have their fun.

Being NT is not just this stuff, mental health, nutrition etc also plays a major part but you don't need to be NT necessary. (You just gotta hide the bad parts from dominant people.)

Needless to say, acting high energy and stuff also makes you one of the dominant persons, essentially a rule setter but only within reason ofc.

 

[Primalsplit]

Ok I went too overboard here in explanation. The main point I wanted to actually make was, there are 2 important sides to social games. First and foremost is to maximize your enjoyment in engaging and the other is to make other people happy (but not necessarily everyone, dominant people are more important). Unless you're in actual danger, this is the order of importance you should follow.

 

[Deleted member 11127]

There are guys who think that 0.5s of eye contact is an ioi. I often see girls holding eye contact with me for 3s+ and it means nothing. They aren't interested to the point where they will make it easy for me. They just stare and that's it. I'm autistic so I overthink it and that's how bitches are looking at me:

- girl holds eye contact for 0.5s or won't even look at you (probably she saw you before and isn't interested or is busy with her life)
- girl holds eye contact for 0.5s-1s. Little longer to the point where you feel it. Means nothing. (99% of guys think she wants the dick)
- girl holds eye contact for 2+ seconds. Some even up to 10 seconds, but most cases 2-5 seconds. When I catch bitch staring at me, I stare back. Never got any approaches from shit like that.
- girl looks at you all the time. Everytime you look at her, you catch her looking at you. Means nothing, was never approached by shit like this.
- girl looking at you, smiling and then keep holding eye contact, it might be the first level where she is interested. 90% of those situations girls were positive when I approached them.
- girl looks at you for one second, looks down and then back at you and holds eye contact with the smile. It happens once a year for me. I had girls doing it to me and then literally waiting for me outside and then smiling again or even saying 'hi'.
- finally girls who open you with 'hi' or other shit. Happened to me few times in my life. I remember I was walking down the street a group was coming from the opposite side. One girl stopped in the middle of the sidewalk and the rest of that group turn one direction. I was walking towards her and as I was close to her, she smiled at me and said 'hi'. I smiled back and said 'hello' and then she was asking me some random shit questions. She was 8/10 16 years old girl and I was 25 years old back then. It is ioi.

 

[Deleted member 19865]

Ok I went too overboard here in explanation. The main point I wanted to actually make was, there are 2 important sides to social games. First and foremost is to maximize your enjoyment in engaging and the other is to make other people happy (but not necessarily everyone, dominant people are more important). Unless you're in actual danger, this is the order of importance you should follow.

Very useful. I

I went towards the embrace your uniqueness (weirdness) at least feel NT and kinda disregard trying to come off as normal. It was the advice from Tyler's vids (Real Social Dynamics). And if you've seen the guy, he's a ultra giga sperg. So I figured if I tried it, it might work. And whenever something weird happens, you play it giga cool; holding frame basically. Undertone giving the mesdage "Hey it is cool. We can be goofy and whatever. It is ok."

Now did it not blow up in my face more than enough? It sure did when I insulted the wrong person or brought bad vibes. But I was also reaching highs I would not thought possible before (not just for me, but for anyone else). I was not getting any action or interaction whatsoever before due to playing safe and slow, so this was a major improvement for me at the time.

Now I realize it's all about bringing positive vibes to the correct persons. If you make someone the butt of the joke, it's ok too if he can't do anything about it without losing "social credit points".

It's actually all about this "social credit points". You can go to a couple, flirt with the girl (good vibes) while berating the guy (bad vibes) if that's how you feel like itat the moment. The trick is not really to analyze, but "roam" with your feelings. When you can tap into your "free flow" state due to feeling extremely good, others will feel extremely good too through emotional diffusion. You will come off as giga charming, like a free soul free from worldly constraints, a mythical presence basically.


But the important part that actually determined my success was actually in the part I choosed to forget: analysis. Let's go back to the example I used earlier: the couple I flirted (the girl) and teased (the guy).

Reason why this interaction goes well and comes off as a positive vibe even if it goes in front of other people is because of the underlying context. Almost all couples right now are in the favor of the woman. In the power struggle, woman have won. He probably felt insecure due to some past transgression here, the girl having a little too much banter with a guy there, perhaps a kiss on the cheek from her 'male' friend there etc. But he couldn't do anything about it. Maybe brought it up to her but got brushed off. Or maybe he "hamstered" it away. But since he failed to correct this behaviour or broke it off, he is now in the inferior position and on a forced slippedy slope. The thing about submissives is, they can't defend their rights without making a scene that easily. So he can't challenge you. To do so, is to bring all the anger from the past as well and that's bad vibes. We can't do that here. How dare you be non-NT? Especially in public! You autistic boyfriend.

Yeah he shuts up and fucking takes it like a bitch. Even if he decides to have none of it and leaves, he is still going to be seen like a joke. Only a giga emotionally strong man can be able to come off as emotionally strong enough while not looking butthurt by not going too far. But if he was that strong, he wouldn't be in this place.

If we go back to the girl, the dominant person in this equation besides yourself; it is pleasing to her becuse:
1-A guy desires her. Net positive.
2-The boyfriend is with her, no risk of anything happening right now even if the guy is ugly. Feels safe.
3-Since her bf is a little bitch and she knows it, she resents him ("he makes me look bad. I should be someone who has secured a stronger man not this little bitch"). She likes it when he is reminded of how pathetic he is either for the sake of humiliative revenge or because he will finally get fed up and man up, thus fixing the problem of being a little bitch. Thus fixing her problem of being the gf of a little bitch.

And lastly the crowd just doesn't care that much. They just wanna have their fun.

Being NT is not just this stuff, mental health, nutrition etc also plays a major part but you don't need to be NT necessary. (You just gotta hide the bad parts from dominant people.)

Needless to say, acting high energy and stuff also makes you one of the dominant persons, essentially a rule setter but only within reason ofc.

Ok I went too overboard here in explanation. The main point I wanted to actually make was, there are 2 important sides to social games. First and foremost is to maximize your enjoyment in engaging and the other is to make other people happy (but not necessarily everyone, dominant people are more important). Unless you're in actual danger, this is the order of importance you should follow.

Quite interesting. I'll look into trying these things. I've been wanting to increase my social abilities. I'm pretty decent at talking to strangers in a professional context, but in a casual setting I'm very reserved and usually have to know someone well to hold a stimulating conversation with them.