Average, i want bimax on org example

[lurking truecel]

Imagine this guy moving the leforte 1 area forward when his upper lip is infront of his nose already, this guy is already dog maxxed and he wants bimax. People on this forum are so lost when it comes to surgeries. This guy has a short nose and teeth protagnism. A genio could ascend his chin some because its further back then his lower lip.

And also doing bimax without a medical issue must be the most retarded shot ever, wasting years of your life for nothing. Because if you dont look deformed bimax does nothing litteraly.(Clear recession)

 

[sarmatian]

You forgot that dogmaxxing is law bud

 

[lurking truecel]

You forgot that dogmaxxing is law bud

Having upper lip infront of nose is death, and having a lack of browridge and moving jaw forward looks retarded. Any leforte 1 movements here would make his phil a mile long and his nose retarded

 

[sarmatian]

Having upper lip infront of nose is death, and having a lack of browridge and moving jaw forward looks retarded. Any leforte 1 movements here would make his phil a mile long and his nose retarded

Philtrum length does not change with bimax
It may appear longer but it's the same length

 

[lurking truecel]

Philtrum length does not change with bimax
It may appear longer but it's the same length

It makes it longer, because most people have a curve to it which with linear advancements stretches out which makes the phil longer.

 

[Snicket]

View attachment 3511415
Imagine this guy moving the leforte 1 area forward when his upper lip is infront of his nose already, this guy is already dog maxxed and he wants bimax. People on this forum are so lost when it comes to surgeries. This guy has a short nose and teeth protagnism. A genio could ascend his chin some because its further back then his lower lip.

Why would this guy need any surgery at all? His side profile looks pretty good already. Would a genio be more than a marginal benefit at best?

And also doing bimax without a medical issue must be the most retarded shot ever, wasting years of your life for nothing. Because if you dont look deformed bimax does nothing litteraly.(Clear recession)

Agree with this 100%. Surgery is best at normalizing facial appearance.

 

[Snicket]

Philtrum length does not change with bimax
It may appear longer but it's the same length

Saggital Advancement makes the philtrum more prominent and therefore appear bigger. Also if the maxilla is downgrafted, the philtrum will be longer.

 

[sarmatian]

Saggital Advancement makes the philtrum more prominent and therefore appear bigger. Also if the maxilla is downgrafted, the philtrum will be longer.

What if along with downgrafting of the maxilla there is CCW rotation?

 

[Snicket]

What if along with downgrafting of the maxilla there is CCW rotation?

I believe - could be wrong here - that as long as there is anterior downgrafting, regardless of whether there is overall CCW, the philtrum will always be longer.

I mean you’re literally bringing the front of the maxilla down so there has to be some philtrum lengthening logically - even with posterior downgrafting.

 

[lurking truecel]

I believe - could be wrong here - that as long as there is anterior downgrafting, regardless of whether there is overall CCW, the philtrum will always be longer.

Anything over 5 mm linear whether with ccw or not will lengthen it also

 

[sarmatian]

I believe - could be wrong here - that as long as there is anterior downgrafting, regardless of whether there is overall CCW, the philtrum will always be longer.

I mean you’re literally bringing the front of the maxilla down so there has to be some philtrum lengthening logically - even with posterior down grafting.

Then I'm cooked
I have bimax planned this year

 

[Snicket]

Anything over 5 mm linear whether with ccw or not will lengthen it also

Interesting. Why is this? I assumed it’s because the philtrum becomes more prominent from a straight advancement, giving the illusion of a larger philtrum.

 

[lurking truecel]

Then I'm cooked
I have bimax planned this year

Send pic of your side in pm

 

[sarmatian]

Send pic of your side in pm

I don't send

 

[lurking truecel]

Interesting. Why is this? I assumed it’s because the philtrum becomes more prominent from a straight advancement, giving the illusion of a larger philtrum.

Because it stretches out litteraly, most people have a elastic upturn in the phil which will lengthen with age(as the elasticity fades) but it also lengthen with to much upper maxilla advancements

 

[sarmatian]

Interesting. Why is this? I assumed it’s because the philtrum becomes more prominent from a straight advancement, giving the illusion of a larger philtrum.

Would a genioplasty to increase vertical chin height negate the effect of the longer philtrum?
Would it make it look more balanced?

 

[lurking truecel]

I don't send

If you have longer then 15 mm phil i wouldnt do it, because long phil is death sentence

 

[Snicket]

Because it stretches out litteraly, most people have a elastic upturn in the phil which will lengthen with age(as the elasticity fades) but it also lengthen with to much upper maxilla advancements

Right thanks. That’s what I thought. You stretch out the soft tissue.

 

[sarmatian]

If you have longer then 15 mm phil i wouldnt do it, because long phil is death sentence

How do I measure the philtrum exactly?

 

[valentine]

periodt

 

[valentine]

If you have longer then 15 mm phil i wouldnt do it, because long phil is death sentence

thankyou

 

[sarmatian]

Also, I'm a birdcel so I already have a death sentence

 

[Foreverbrad]

These people aren’t gonna be getting surgery anyway so it doesn’t matter if they’re too retarded to understand the actual impact of types of surgery.
Very few of us on here are actually serious about it and able to do it financially.

 

[lurking truecel]

How do I measure the philtrum exactly?

3

 

[lurking truecel]

thankyou

You are the exception king

 

[sarmatian]

View attachment 3511438
3

It's exactly 15 mm

 

[valentine]

You are the exception king

no it looks horrible but i somehow look even more retarded in morphs w shorter philtrum

 

[lurking truecel]

It's exactly 15 mm

I wouldnt do downgrafting to much then

 

[sarmatian]

I wouldnt do downgrafting to much then

What should be the max? So I can tell if my surgeon is gonna make me look worse.

 

[lurking truecel]

What should be the max? So I can tell if my surgeon is gonna make me look worse.

I mean 1-2 mm probably

 

[sarmatian]

I mean 1-2 mm probably

I'm gonna need more than that I think

 

[Snicket]

I'm gonna need more than that I think

Do you have short face syndrome? Where the maxilla and mandible are short and there is poor tooth show.

 

[sarmatian]

Do you have short face syndrome?

No, I'm very recessed.

 

[sarmatian]

No, I'm very recessed.

This is basically how I look like:

 

[sarmatian]

This is basically how I look like:
View attachment 3511446

That's not me but I look the same from the side

 

[Snicket]

No, I'm very recessed.

Don’t know anything about your case. Could you tell me a bit more? What’s your occlusion, current jaw positions etc….

 

[Snicket]

This is basically how I look like:
View attachment 3511446

Ah so you’re just getting posterior downgrafting! Don’t worry philtrum length won’t change from the posterior alone. It’s anterior downgrafting that makes the philtrum longer.

How much LeFort linear advancement has your surgeon proposed?

 

[sarmatian]

Ah so you’re just getting posterior downgrafting! Don’t worry philtrum length won’t change from the downgraft alone.

I heard the surgeon and my orthodontist talking and they were talking about cutting my maxilla and doing a counter-clockwise rotation, the same with the lower one. That's why I'm worried about the philtrum. My surgeon also said I don't need genio but I actually need it because I don't think he gets what I want. Right now I have braces in preparation for orthognathic surgery, but the consultation for the actual surgery is gonna take a while.

 

[sarmatian]

I heard the surgeon and my orthodontist talking and they were talking about cutting my maxilla and doing a counter-clockwise rotation, the same with the lower one. That's why I'm worried about the philtrum. My surgeon also said I don't need genio but I actually need it because I don't think he gets what I want. Right now I have braces in preparation for orthognathic surgery, but the consultation for the actual surgery is gonna take a while.

Like you can tell, the guy in the picture would need genio too, not just bimax.

 

[Snicket]

I heard the surgeon and my orthodontist talking and they were talking about cutting my maxilla and doing a counter-clockwise rotation, the same with the lower one. That's why I'm worried about the philtrum. My surgeon also said I don't need genio but I actually need it because I don't think he gets what I want. Right now I have braces in preparation for orthognathic surgery, but the consultation for the actual surgery is gonna take a while.

Find out what your actual/approximate movements are then in terms of movements. Downgrafting the maxilla can mean several things.

 

[sarmatian]

Find out what your actual/approximate movements are then in terms of movements. Downgrafting the maxilla can mean several things.

I will. Consultation will be in some months, maybe later this year.

 

[Whirr22222]

He could do a bimax with ccw rotation

 

[Snicket]

I will. Consultation will be in some months, maybe later this year.

Trying to come to conclusions about your surgery on an information vacuum is never a good idea.

If you are like the guy in the picture, I imagine the surgeon will do a combination of posterior downgrafting + anterior impaction.

 

[sarmatian]

Trying to come to conclusions about your surgery on an information vacuum is never a good idea.

If you are like the guy in the picture, I imagine the surgeon will do a combination of posterior downgrafting + anterior impaction. It will likely be net CCW, where posterior downgraft > anterior impaction.

And do you think a good result can come without genio?

 

[Snicket]

And do you think a good result can come without genio?
View attachment 3511471

It depends on your starting point. Again, if you're like guy in the example photo, then you'll like need a genio as well.

 

[sarmatian]

And do you think a good result can come without genio?
View attachment 3511471

In this case there was maxillary setback

 

[Snicket]

In this case there was maxillary setback

This woman was an above average candidate for surgery. The upper maxilla was pretty good and didn't suffer anything like the same downward growth as the jaws.

Bringing back the jaws in combination with CCW completed her face. You can't even tell that the woman is down-grown any more. A rare case.

Most downward grown class 2s still look pretty bad after surgery because the entire maxilla is downward grown.

 

[FutureSlayer]

View attachment 3511415
Imagine this guy moving the leforte 1 area forward when his upper lip is infront of his nose already, this guy is already dog maxxed and he wants bimax. People on this forum are so lost when it comes to surgeries. This guy has a short nose and teeth protagnism. A genio could ascend his chin some because its further back then his lower lip.

And also doing bimax without a medical issue must be the most retarded shot ever, wasting years of your life for nothing. Because if you dont look deformed bimax does nothing litteraly.(Clear recession)

could just mean he wants his jaw projected and his maxilla rotated ccw, it’s not rocket science

 

[lurking truecel]

could just mean he wants his jaw projected and his maxilla rotated ccw, it’s not rocket science

No doctor in the world does a leforte 1 only for rotation, you have to be mentally retarded to both pay that amount and take all the risk for no advancement.

 

[lurking truecel]

This woman was an above average candidate for surgery. The upper maxilla was pretty good and didn't suffer anything like the same downward growth as the jaws.

Bringing back the jaws in combination with CCW completed her face. You can't even tell that the woman is down-grown any more. A rare case.

Most downward grown class 2s still look pretty bad after surgery because the entire maxilla is downward grown.

I dont think her maxilla was to good before, but she was a good surgery case because she had extreme lower mandible recession that created lip incompetence which made the surgery well worth