Bone Remodelling / Growth theory [ HIGH IQ ONLY ]

[Orka]

Hello all, I'd like to start this off by saying this is not a theory made by me, I was talking in a discord server when this was brought to my attention, a person called sasx introduced me to it.

I've been and will be extremely busy for the next few weeks, so I won't have time to fact check, skim or really go through almost any of this, so I wanted to share it here and ask what you guys think.

Spoiler: The Theory

• bone remodeling

there are inhibitors of SOST who stimulate bone osteogenesis via b catenin signaling

here it clearly says how wnt signaling impacts bone growth and there’s so many more info on this its common knowledge
also bmp drugs

there are also epigenetic modulators

• and drugs that heavily stimulate runx2 pathways
• this is also very true u can ask doctors irl aswell

bone damage does obviously stimulate bone remodeling, and the process of repairing it includes osteogenesis and the bone repairing thicker, ofc the more ur osteoblasts get stimulated the more it is efficient, plus u can do it for long time

pth is literally an injectable hormone, u can take drugs that are legit for any process that includes stimulant bone growth at any age and bone remodeling doesn’t stop w puberty either

and HGH is good to add on cycles it also stimulates osteoblasts via igf1 + its good for sleep, collagen etc

The spoiler above is a copy pasted message from the DM on discord, they refused to share the source of the text.

I'd appreciate comments specifically referring to parts of the theory rather than "nah its cope".

Tagging people who might know something about this:
@aids @chadisbeingmade @SlayerJonas

I'd be willing to pay one of the people above to go through this in depth if its too much to look through in your free time. Thanks!

 

[churmaxxed]

bump

 

[Ted Bundy]

how

I'd be willing to pay

much

 

[Orka]

how

much

I'd be willing to pay one of the people above

That was an offer to CIBM, Jonas or aids

 

[Ted Bundy]

That was an offer to CIBM, Jonas or aids

I know

 

[Orka]

I know

then I don't know yet, it'd depend on how much time they think they'd have to dedicate to this and what they think that time is worth

 

[egyptiansub5]

Hello all, I'd like to start this off by saying this is not a theory made by me, I was talking in a discord server when this was brought to my attention, a person called sasx introduced me to it.

I've been and will be extremely busy for the next few weeks, so I won't have time to fact check, skim or really go through almost any of this, so I wanted to share it here and ask what you guys think.

Spoiler: The Theory

View attachment 4404049View attachment 4404048

• bone remodeling

View attachment 4404038View attachment 4404037

there are inhibitors of SOST who stimulate bone osteogenesis via b catenin signaling
View attachment 4404041View attachment 4404051View attachment 4404042View attachment 4404040

here it clearly says how wnt signaling impacts bone growth and there’s so many more info on this its common knowledge
also bmp drugs
View attachment 4404047

there are also epigenetic modulators

• and drugs that heavily stimulate runx2 pathways
• this is also very true u can ask doctors irl aswell

View attachment 4404039
bone damage does obviously stimulate bone remodeling, and the process of repairing it includes osteogenesis and the bone repairing thicker, ofc the more ur osteoblasts get stimulated the more it is efficient, plus u can do it for long time
View attachment 4404050View attachment 4404043View attachment 4404046

pth is literally an injectable hormone, u can take drugs that are legit for any process that includes stimulant bone growth at any age and bone remodeling doesn’t stop w puberty either
View attachment 4404044

and HGH is good to add on cycles it also stimulates osteoblasts via igf1 + its good for sleep, collagen etc

The spoiler above is a copy pasted message from the DM on discord, they refused to share the source of the text.

I'd appreciate comments specifically referring to parts of the theory rather than "nah its cope".

Tagging people who might know something about this:
@aids @chadisbeingmade @SlayerJonas

I'd be willing to pay one of the people above to go through this in depth if its too much to look through in your free time. Thanks!

tuff

 

[CertifiedGoy]

Yes this is correct but results after puberty will be super limited. Also BMPs are mega expensive

 

[brutalpilled]

hey man is there anything to fix my subhuman bigonial I can’t read allat rn

 

[Sujumh]

was gonna dnr but it's orka

 

[SvtvnTr14d]

hey man is there anything to fix my subhuman bigonial I can’t read allat rn

implants

 

[brutalpilled]

implants

Bro fuck implants I don’t got money it’s over for me

 

[the foid stalker]

If PTH and Wnt signaling remodeled faces the way you claim, every grandmother on osteoporosis drugs would look like a model. The skull’s sutures are fused.

 

[Nexom]

Isn't the source just PMID: 37947654?
Also, what are you trying to find out exactly, just whether or not the theory represents the papers claims accurately?

 

[Orka]

If PTH and Wnt signaling remodeled faces the way you claim, every grandmother on osteoporosis drugs would look like a model. The skull’s sutures are fused.

the theory would obviously apply to teenagers without fused sutures.

 

[Orka]

Isn't the source just PMID: 37947654?
Also, what are you trying to find out exactly, just whether or not the theory represents the papers claims accurately?

I dont even remember now

but it was something related to hgh having a very significant effect on 'bonemass' in general, because I had undermined the effectiveness, sasx corrected me with this information

 

[the foid stalker]

the theory would obviously apply to teenagers without fused sutures.

You are talking about a scale of remodeling to a teenager that is just unrealistic. Teens do have partially open sutures and high osteoblastic activity. But, this is associated with normal growth, not the massive cosmetic changes you are talking about. If PTH/WNT pathways were modulated sufficiently to result in high changes in bone sturcture, we should be seeing some evidence of this by now. Orthodontists would be out of business, and every teen on osteoporosis meds would have a forward grown maxilla.

 

[hej1377]

My problem with this theory would be, 1 bone limit genetics and hormone genetics should be correlated somehat closely in a healthy person which should give it based on this at best unpredictable and often very underhwlming results since the extra dna expression is barely noticable and most people reading this will live in first world countries with good enough resources for their genes to be able to express themselfs pretty effectively since theyve gotten enough nutrients and such

And 2 we dont have quantifable stats to know what is possible even in deficient people in a context that is applicable to this context from what ive seen, altough maybe i shoudlve done more research when i saw this for the first time, i think we'd need measurements and/or weight. Because they might work on a biologicall level but if they dont do itnso much that it can cause mm's of bone change its pretty useless here

Altough i might be horribly wrong as there is probably higher iq,more knowledgeable people that could give a more accurate and educated take on this, like the 3 tagged above and many more people so ill revisit this and hope there's some good responses

 

[the foid stalker]

they refused to share the source of the text.

A Brief Review of Bone Cell Function and Importance - PMC

This review focuses on understanding the macroscopic and microscopic characteristics of bone tissue and reviews current knowledge of its physiology. It explores how these features intricately collaborate to maintain the balance between ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Sujumh]

quickly skimmed thru some texts and did some research ( not indepth tho ) looks like the risks ( could be overblown and fear mongered like everything is ) could be actually a very big factor to not doing this especially some things listed are impossible to source and very expensive
( just did a quick skim tho dont take this as all the bread and butter and conclude ur thinking ab this theory )

 

[shahan.ltn]

Hello all, I'd like to start this off by saying this is not a theory made by me, I was talking in a discord server when this was brought to my attention, a person called sasx introduced me to it.

I've been and will be extremely busy for the next few weeks, so I won't have time to fact check, skim or really go through almost any of this, so I wanted to share it here and ask what you guys think.

Spoiler: The Theory

View attachment 4404049View attachment 4404048

• bone remodeling

View attachment 4404038View attachment 4404037

there are inhibitors of SOST who stimulate bone osteogenesis via b catenin signaling
View attachment 4404041View attachment 4404051View attachment 4404042View attachment 4404040

here it clearly says how wnt signaling impacts bone growth and there’s so many more info on this its common knowledge
also bmp drugs
View attachment 4404047

there are also epigenetic modulators

• and drugs that heavily stimulate runx2 pathways
• this is also very true u can ask doctors irl aswell

View attachment 4404039
bone damage does obviously stimulate bone remodeling, and the process of repairing it includes osteogenesis and the bone repairing thicker, ofc the more ur osteoblasts get stimulated the more it is efficient, plus u can do it for long time
View attachment 4404050View attachment 4404043View attachment 4404046

pth is literally an injectable hormone, u can take drugs that are legit for any process that includes stimulant bone growth at any age and bone remodeling doesn’t stop w puberty either
View attachment 4404044

and HGH is good to add on cycles it also stimulates osteoblasts via igf1 + its good for sleep, collagen etc

The spoiler above is a copy pasted message from the DM on discord, they refused to share the source of the text.

I'd appreciate comments specifically referring to parts of the theory rather than "nah its cope".

Tagging people who might know something about this:
@aids @chadisbeingmade @SlayerJonas

I'd be willing to pay one of the people above to go through this in depth if its too much to look through in your free time. Thanks!

Bmps hella expensive besides after puberty ur limited on growth lol

 

[LXR]

The only problem with this is that the midface is done growing by mid teens. Thats why those mse expanders dont work most of the time, achieving only dental tipping. Even if it was possible to remodel the face, it would require compliance from a very young teenager. Possibly such a teenager would be banned from the forum

 

[hej1377]

Also tl;dr for the mf's that plan to dnr just like i wouldve most likely if it wasnt orka,

Pth can stop bone inhibiting gene expression and therefore let more bone grow and also a bit of about classical bone smashing by creating microfractures and bmp's can help this remodelling by also activating some genes that cause bone growth

Seems a bit unclear tho from my reading if hhypothesis is include adding exogenous bmp's or signaling natural ones.

 

[LXR]

The only problem with this is that the midface is done growing by mid teens. Thats why those mse expanders dont work most of the time, achieving only dental tipping. Even if it was possible to remodel the face, it would require compliance from a very young teenager. Possibly such a teenager would be banned from the forum

Also to mention that 70% of the facial growth is done by 5 years of age. Growth velocity is highest from infancy to early childhood. Since growth velocity is relatively less from early childhood to teenage years very little can be meaningfully changed that can justify the amount of effort that is required by the individual if compliance is not an issue. This is why even if it has 100% efficacy, the cost/benefit analysis is heavily skewed against you. A parent would have to force their child to such a treatment quite like what John Mew did to his children. And we only see Mike Mew who has a good dentofacial growth. Although, it was myofacial therapy which requires less compliance than bone remodelling. So even if something like this was done by parents to children, resulting in ideal jaw growth, realistically how many blackpillers are willing to attempt this to not be one off case ?

 

[LXR]

TLDW: Read last paragraph

Ok, now I went through the text within the images you attached and from what it says it seems that there are two things to understand

1. Bone remodelling is a process that involves both bone resorption and bone formation. These two can occur independently on a surface but they are not always mutually exclusive, i.e. they happen at tge same time

2. They are completely coupled either. The paper notes that in healthy adults the bone modelling unit or bone balance is slightly negative. This means the more resorption happens than formation. This obviously tracks since aging means you lose bone density over time and it could not happen if ratio of bone resorption and bone formation was same

The dude's response basically seems to be that you damage a bone surface and then chemically induce conditions for osteoblasts to stimulate bone formation at a higher rate for as long as the damage heals. This, your friend proposes can be done by drugs that are commonly used to treat osteoporsis. These are the sclerostin inhibitors that he speaks of.

These drugs are very effective, they show great improvement in bone growth in lumbar spine, lesser but still good growth in hip. But thats that, I couldnt find any data for the face. For the hips, in a lot of cases, it also just manages to preserve the bone. The typical bone growth in lumbar spine is 15% and in spine is 9% which huge since the base on which the percentage is counted is already high.

As for the skull, there is simply very little I could say that is convincing. Although I can give two contrasting viewpoints.

a. Sclerostin inhibitors work best on spongy bones as opposed to cortical bones. The bones are spongy bones, it has large surface area and is highly metabollicaly activee. On the other hand it is not as effective on wrists which are cortical bones found in hips, arms, skull. Sclerostin inhibitors only induce 1.5% change in wrist growth which is not much given its low base

b. Individuals with Sclerosteosis have absurdly thick skull and absurd growth of mandible. These individuals basically dont have the protein Sclerostin in them which inhibits bone growth so they develop thick bones in skull and arms.

Now, another problem for this drug is that unlike fillers, you cant target this drug to work only on your face, it works on your entire body and thus its mechanism makes it more effective on spongy bones rather than cortical bones. Problem number 2 is that it only inhibits SOST gene expression, it doesnt lead Sclerostin deficiency like the genetic disorder. That is probably one of the reasons why patients with osteoporosis who take this drug dont show the absurd skull growth like in those who suffer with Sclerosteosis

 

[aids]

This entire concept can be debunked by the fact that an increase in bone density does not mean a change in bone volume.
A denser skull does nothing for changing your face.

 

[Orka]

This entire concept can be debunked by the fact that an increase in bone density does not mean a change in bone volume.
A denser skull does nothing for changing your face.

after a certain density threshold would there not be a visible change?

 

[aids]

For example:
No real change in volume regardless of whether there is new bone growth consequent to remodelling.
Remodelling =/ a change in volume.

 

[Orka]

Also to mention that 70% of the facial growth is done by 5 years of age. Growth velocity is highest from infancy to early childhood. Since growth velocity is relatively less from early childhood to teenage years very little can be meaningfully changed that can justify the amount of effort that is required by the individual if compliance is not an issue. This is why even if it has 100% efficacy, the cost/benefit analysis is heavily skewed against you. A parent would have to force their child to such a treatment quite like what John Mew did to his children. And we only see Mike Mew who has a good dentofacial growth. Although, it was myofacial therapy which requires less compliance than bone remodelling. So even if something like this was done by parents to children, resulting in ideal jaw growth, realistically how many blackpillers are willing to attempt this to not be one off case ?

TLDW: Read last paragraph

Ok, now I went through the text within the images you attached and from what it says it seems that there are two things to understand

1. Bone remodelling is a process that involves both bone resorption and bone formation. These two can occur independently on a surface but they are not always mutually exclusive, i.e. they happen at tge same time

2. They are completely coupled either. The paper notes that in healthy adults the bone modelling unit or bone balance is slightly negative. This means the more resorption happens than formation. This obviously tracks since aging means you lose bone density over time and it could not happen if ratio of bone resorption and bone formation was same

The dude's response basically seems to be that you damage a bone surface and then chemically induce conditions for osteoblasts to stimulate bone formation at a higher rate for as long as the damage heals. This, your friend proposes can be done by drugs that are commonly used to treat osteoporsis. These are the sclerostin inhibitors that he speaks of.

These drugs are very effective, they show great improvement in bone growth in lumbar spine, lesser but still good growth in hip. But thats that, I couldnt find any data for the face. For the hips, in a lot of cases, it also just manages to preserve the bone. The typical bone growth in lumbar spine is 15% and in spine is 9% which huge since the base on which the percentage is counted is already high.

As for the skull, there is simply very little I could that is convincing. Although I can give two contrasting viewpoints.

a. Sclerostin inhibitors work best on spongy bones as opposed to cortical bones. The bones are spongy bones, it has large surface area and is highly metabollicaly activee. On the other hand it is not as effective on wrists which are cortical bones found in hips, arms, skull. Sclerostin inhibitors only induce 1.5% change in wrist growth which is not much given its low base

b. Individuals with Sclerosteosis have absurdly thich skull and absurd growth of mandible. These individuals basically dont have the protein Sclerostin in them which inhibits bone growth so they develop thick bones in skull and arms.

Now, another problem for this drug is that unlike fillers, you cant target this drug to work only on your face, it works on your entire body and thus its mechanism makes it more effective on spongy bones rather than cortical bones. Problem number 2 is that it only inhibits SOST gene expression, it doesnt lead Sclerostin deficiency like the genetic disorder. That is probably one of the reasons why patients with osteoporosis who take this drug dont show the absurd skull growth like in those who suffer with Sclerosteosis

Thank you so much for the insight!

 

[aids]

after a certain density threshold would there not be a visible change?

Why would there be?

 

[LXR]

Thank you so much for the insight!

Np, I was free this morning and the topic seemed interesting enough because my grandfather took drugs for osteoporosis. Although I dont know much about the other drugs

 

[Orka]

For example:
No real change in volume regardless of whether there is new bone growth consequent to remodelling.
Remodelling =/ a change in volume.

The graphic helps a lot, thank you

Why would there be?

dunno

 

[LTNUser]

@VampyrMaxx @HighIQ ubermensch @Hide @greycel

 

[Orka]

@VampyrMaxx @HighIQ ubermensch @Hide @greycel

pls don't tag like half of these niggas

 

[ikramy]

More density dosent mean more projection

 

[Nexom]

Why would there be?

I think the assumption is that even though on a technical sense as you said "no change in volume", remodeling could make the bone denser or more compact. Like, at some point the extra material would show up as a slight change on the outside as well... if that makes sense. like a ridge getting sharper or an area more projected.

more mineral > more "solid" bone in that area > hypothesis of an eventual visible difference (even if the volume change is small)

 

[Hide]

More bones in the skull doesnt necessarily grow bones and change positions

 

[aids]

I think the assumption is that even though on a technical sense as you said "no change in volume", remodeling could make the bone denser or more compact. Like, at some point the extra material would show up as a slight change on the outside as well... if that makes sense. like a ridge getting sharper or an area more projected.

more mineral > more "solid" bone in that area > hypothesis of an eventual visible difference (even if the volume change is small)

Yes, I understand that, but how much denser do you think x bone would need to be for such a theorised change to occur? 1.5x? Double? Triple?
I don't want to walk around with a head that weighs as much as three watermelons. That just introduces a whole new plethora of biomechanical issues.

 

[childishkillah]

Bro fuck implants I don’t got money it’s over for me

You look like a fat boneless version of cameron alborzian

 

[Nexom]

Yes, I understand that, but how much denser do you think x bone would need to be for such a theorised change to occur? 1.5x? Double? Triple?
I don't want to walk around with a head that weighs as much as three watermelons. That just introduces a whole new plethora of biomechanical issues.

Yup, that's not possible
would just be a tiny bmd bump even with strong bone drugs but basically irrelevant for looks (imo)

 

[VampyrMaxx]

@VampyrMaxx @HighIQ ubermensch @Hide @greycel

Idk shit tbh; bump

 

[brutalpilled]

You look like a fat boneless version of cameron alborzian

Yeah dude, I know it’s a bad situation to be in

 

[brutalpilled]

You look like a fat boneless version of cameron alborzian

Im ngl i already was insecure enough you just gave me more motivation to lose more fat

 

[childishkillah]

Yeah dude, I know it’s a bad situation to be in

You have good features just looksmax brah.

 

[childishkillah]

Im ngl i already was insecure enough you just gave me more motivation to lose more fat

Your welcome

 

[brutalpilled]

You have good features just looksmax brah.

Thanks man I really appreciate it, I been looksmaxxing for 2 years already. Went down from 304 to 174 because of this forum and community and just the general surroundings and how I was treated by people.

This was pre ascension:

This is now:

 

[childishkillah]

Thanks man I really appreciate it, I been looksmaxxing for 2 years already. Went down from 304 to 174 because of this forum and community and just the general surroundings and how I was treated by people.

This was pre ascension:

This is now:

Mirin hard brah. Did you use any glp-1 agonist or mitochondrial uncoupler?

 

[brutalpilled]

Mirin hard brah. Did you use any glp-1 agonist or mitochondrial uncoupler?

Hell no, only stuck to natural way of calorie deficit, I don’t get why people just put the fork down lol. Reta/Tirz and Ozempic are just waste of money imo

 

[ihatemySOST]

Bone remodeling does not change the bone shape

 

[3pider]

Hello all, I'd like to start this off by saying this is not a theory made by me, I was talking in a discord server when this was brought to my attention, a person called sasx introduced me to it.

I've been and will be extremely busy for the next few weeks, so I won't have time to fact check, skim or really go through almost any of this, so I wanted to share it here and ask what you guys think.

Spoiler: The Theory

View attachment 4404049View attachment 4404048

• bone remodeling

View attachment 4404038View attachment 4404037

there are inhibitors of SOST who stimulate bone osteogenesis via b catenin signaling
View attachment 4404041View attachment 4404051View attachment 4404042View attachment 4404040

here it clearly says how wnt signaling impacts bone growth and there’s so many more info on this its common knowledge
also bmp drugs
View attachment 4404047

there are also epigenetic modulators

• and drugs that heavily stimulate runx2 pathways
• this is also very true u can ask doctors irl aswell

View attachment 4404039
bone damage does obviously stimulate bone remodeling, and the process of repairing it includes osteogenesis and the bone repairing thicker, ofc the more ur osteoblasts get stimulated the more it is efficient, plus u can do it for long time
View attachment 4404050View attachment 4404043View attachment 4404046

pth is literally an injectable hormone, u can take drugs that are legit for any process that includes stimulant bone growth at any age and bone remodeling doesn’t stop w puberty either
View attachment 4404044

and HGH is good to add on cycles it also stimulates osteoblasts via igf1 + its good for sleep, collagen etc

The spoiler above is a copy pasted message from the DM on discord, they refused to share the source of the text.

I'd appreciate comments specifically referring to parts of the theory rather than "nah its cope".

Tagging people who might know something about this:
@aids @chadisbeingmade @SlayerJonas

I'd be willing to pay one of the people above to go through this in depth if its too much to look through in your free time. Thanks!

literally made a thread about hopping on these and people tried to tell me it was cope lol