BREAKTHROOUGH: Genio + resting mandible position correction.

[rubybrrr]

So I had an 7-8mm genioplasty about 10 days ago. I was initially pleased with the result however about a week in o felt underwhelmed. I had nothing to do for days but to think of my strategy going forward.

I knew once I fixed my chin I would still need to advance my midface after using implants or upper jaw surgery. So I was fine with my midface still looking recessed of course (like I didn’t expect the genio to help that obviously).

I was satisfied with the projection but slightly underwhelmed about its affect on the rest of my face and my generally undersized mandible (or what I thought was undersized). I was kinda hoping it would transform my face more drastically.

So, a little upset, I altered my plan moving forward to be DOUBLE jaw surgery. Even tho going into this I thought the genio would fix my lower jaw and it’d just be my upper to deal with after.

But I had an AMAZING breakthrough:

Because my midface is recessed and I had camouflage ortho as a child, my lower jaw was being forced to sit further back than it should in order to squeeze it behind my upper teeth. I realized when relaxed my mouth opens and my jaw moves forward quite a bit. Now when I let my lower jaw move forward where it’s comfortable, even though it gives me an underbite, my lower jaw looks awesome now with the genioplasty.

So I’m just gonna start rocking the underbite, allowing my musculature to get back to where it’s naturally supposed to be, and get upper jaw advancement to fix the underbite.

TLDR:

you might think your lower mandible is short or recessed and that you need double jaw surgery. But often times you just hold your lower jaw far back just to get it to fit behind your top teeth. SO, if you allow your lower jaw to sit forward where comfortable AND get genio, then you can skip DJS and just get upper jaw surgery which will cut recovery time, costs, risks etc.

Plus if I can get an underbite developed I can get the upper jaw advancement covered by insurance! So all in all I just pay for a genio and some orthodontics!

 

[Mr.Proper]

Can moving mandible forward affect TMJ in a bad way? There is an appliance that does that but I read about some complaints regarding TMJ issues.

 

[Deleted member 8869]

So I had an 7-8mm genioplasty about 10 days ago. I was initially pleased with the result however about a week in o felt underwhelmed. I had nothing to do for days but to think of my strategy going forward.

I knew once I fixed my chin I would still need to advance my midface after using implants or upper jaw surgery. So I was fine with my midface still looking recessed of course (like I didn’t expect the genio to help that obviously).

I was satisfied with the projection but slightly underwhelmed about its affect on the rest of my face and my generally undersized mandible (or what I thought was undersized). I was kinda hoping it would transform my face more drastically.

So, a little upset, I altered my plan moving forward to be DOUBLE jaw surgery. Even tho going into this I thought the genio would fix my lower jaw and it’d just be my upper to deal with after.

But I had an AMAZING breakthrough:

Because my midface is recessed and I had camouflage ortho as a child, my lower jaw was being forced to sit further back than it should in order to squeeze it behind my upper teeth. I realized when relaxed my mouth opens and my jaw moves forward quite a bit. Now when I let my lower jaw move forward where it’s comfortable, even though it gives me an underbite, my lower jaw looks awesome now with the genioplasty.

So I’m just gonna start rocking the underbite, allowing my musculature to get back to where it’s naturally supposed to be, and get upper jaw advancement to fix the underbite.

TLDR:

you might think your lower mandible is short or recessed and that you need double jaw surgery. But often times you just hold your lower jaw far back just to get it to fit behind your top teeth. SO, if you allow your lower jaw to sit forward where comfortable AND get genio, then you can skip DJS and just get upper jaw surgery which will cut recovery time, costs, risks etc.

Plus if I can get an underbite developed I can get the upper jaw advancement covered by insurance! So all in all I just pay for a genio and some orthodontics!

i regret reading this as it is hella retarded

 

[rubybrrr]

i regret reading this as it is hella retarded

God damn retards like u make me tempted to post my face to show results ahhhhhh but no I won’t. Rot boy

 

[rubybrrr]

Can moving mandible forward affect TMJ in a bad way? There is an appliance that does that but I read about some complaints regarding TMJ issues.

For some yes, but if you’ve been caging your jaw backward for years and let it come forward it should come forward naturally (not like you’re forcing an underbite). For me it makes my jaw pain go away, and my breathing a ton better

 

[yorker12]

My dude, you are on to something.

I have a similar situation where i had orthodontics through my teen years. I have a class 1 bite because of camouflage orthodontics.
Surgeon said I don't need decompensation, since my teeth inclination and bite is already good.

I also feel like my lower jaw is forcibly sitting a bit backwards and jutting feels more natural. Even when I lift heavy, I hardmew + jut my jaw forward because its easier to breathe like that.

My ct scans show the same, mandible is fine, just a downwards grown chin as well as maxillary excess.

I tried pushing for DJS, but the surgeon insisted that my mandible is big enough.
In my case (class 1 bite + gummy smile + downards chin) I had a choice of 2 options:
1) Just doing a 6-8mm genio
2) Lefort 1 impaction + genio

The goal of impaction would be to reduce my gum show while smiling and to autorotate my lower jaw forwards and up.


Recently I have started seeing a trend of doing just upper jaw surgery. You can check my last posts about it, here's some interesting data too from one of the studies i have read: These are tables of movements for single vs double jaw surgery.

The interesting part is that single jaw vs double jaw surgery absolute movements are really similar imo, no more than 3mm median difference.
Depending on the case, you can get most of the movement/benefit from single jaw augmentation with way less risk, since BSSO has the highest complication rate.

Of course this option won't work if your mandible is actually deficient, that's for your surgeon to decide.

You are on the right path, but definitely doing it the wrong way, don't fuck up your jaw/bite by forcing an underbite, go talk to a surgeon about this.
Do you have a gummy smile?

Can moving mandible forward affect TMJ in a bad way? There is an appliance that does that but I read about some complaints regarding TMJ issues.

It can, but with modern 3d planning, the chance of that minimized. Again, it depends on your jaws, if your mandible is fine, then the risk is smaller.
There were studies looking at how the condyles/tmj react to their new position after single jaw surgery induced mandibular autorotation and overall it looks like the risk is small and the movement/new position is very stable.

Of course, there are risk factors for condylar resporption(small mandible, being a female, existing bite issues ect.), but that is just part of the risk of orthognatic surgery.
Here is a female who had impaction + genioplasty, but had condylar resorption, even then IMO she looks better than her starting point.
There are more before & afters in my other posts.

Again, the risk for males is less and the movement is generally stable, just showing you that it is possible.

i regret reading this as it is hella retarded

God damn retards like u make me tempted to post my face to show results ahhhhhh but no I won’t. Rot boy

Tbh, I agree, this is retarded. Jutting your lower jaw forward and forcibly trying to create an underbite is really unpredictable, risky and might fuck your jaw/bite in ways you can't even imagine yet.

BUT the general idea of repositioning your mandible with upper jaw/single jaw surgery is legit and is becoming way more popular recently. There are a lot of new studies becoming available about this topic.


Here are a few examples of impaction induced autorotation + genio(or no genio):

 

[Deleted member 8869]

My dude, you are on to something.

I have a similar situation where i had orthodontics through my teen years. I have a class 1 bite because of camouflage orthodontics.
Surgeon said I don't need decompensation, since my teeth inclination and bite is already good.

I also feel like my lower jaw is forcibly sitting a bit backwards and jutting feels more natural. Even when I lift heavy, I hardmew + jut my jaw forward because its easier to breathe like that.

My ct scans show the same, mandible is fine, just a downwards grown chin as well as maxillary excess.

I tried pushing for DJS, but the surgeon insisted that my mandible is big enough.
In my case (class 1 bite + gummy smile + downards chin) I had a choice of 2 options:
1) Just doing a 6-8mm genio
2) Lefort 1 impaction + genio

The goal of impaction would be to reduce my gum show while smiling and to autorotate my lower jaw forwards and up.


Recently I have started seeing a trend of doing just upper jaw surgery. You can check my last posts about it, here's some interesting data too from one of the studies i have read: These are tables of movements for single vs double jaw surgery.
View attachment 1803981View attachment 1803982

The interesting part is that single jaw vs double jaw surgery absolute movements are really similar imo, no more than 3mm median difference.
Depending on the case, you can get most of the movement/benefit from single jaw augmentation with way less risk, since BSSO has the highest complication rate.

Of course this option won't work if your mandible is actually deficient, that's for your surgeon to decide.

You are on the right path, but definitely doing it the wrong way, don't fuck up your jaw/bite by forcing an underbite, go talk to a surgeon about this.
Do you have a gummy smile?



It can, but with modern 3d planning, the chance of that minimized. Again, it depends on your jaws, if your mandible is fine, then the risk is smaller.
There were studies looking at how the condyles/tmj react to their new position after single jaw surgery induced mandibular autorotation and overall it looks like the risk is small and the movement/new position is very stable.

Of course, there are risk factors for condylar resporption(small mandible, being a female, existing bite issues ect.), but that is just part of the risk of orthognatic surgery.
Here is a female who had impaction + genioplasty, but had condylar resorption, even then IMO she looks better than her starting point.
There are more before & afters in my other posts.
View attachment 1803997
Again, the risk for males is less and the movement is generally stable, just showing you that it is possible.


Tbh, I agree, this is retarded. Jutting your lower jaw forward and forcibly trying to create an underbite is really unpredictable, risky and might fuck your jaw/bite in ways you can't even imagine yet.

BUT the general idea of repositioning your mandible with upper jaw/single jaw surgery is legit and is becoming way more popular recently. There are a lot of new studies becoming available about this topic.


Here are a few examples of impaction induced autorotation + genio(or no genio):
View attachment 1804007
View attachment 1804009View attachment 1804010

You dont want to understand and we dont want to explain

 

[yorker12]

You dont want to understand and we dont want to explain

Motherfucker, who is we.

You are the one shitposting and providing no value in this thread.
I am literally making a surgery plan with my surgeon and giving you an insight. You joined later than me and have 4x the posts, stop rotting and go do something with your life.

The fuck are you talking about me not understanding, tell me one thing i got wrong in my last post.
You don't even fucking know what bite class/division you have, why the fuck are you acting like you know shit.

Sit your short growth hormone taking ass down and show some respect to people who actually provide value in this shithole.

Nice Post to rep ratio, retard

If I had to guess you not only have low T, but also low IQ.

I usually am not this aggro, but jesus fucking christ at incels trying to pull others down for no reason.

 

[Deleted member 8869]

Motherfucker, who is we.

You are the one shitposting and providing no value in this thread.
I am literally making a surgery plan with my surgeon and giving you an insight. You joined later than me and have 4x the posts, stop rotting and go do something with your life.

The fuck are you talking about me not understanding, tell me one thing i got wrong in my last post.
You don't even fucking know what bite class/division you have, why the fuck are you acting like you know shit.

Sit your short growth hormone taking ass down and show some respect to people who actually provide value in this shithole.

Nice Post to rep ratio, retard

View attachment 1804702
If I had to guess you not only have low T, but also low IQ.

I usually am not this aggro, but jesus fucking christ at incels trying to pull others down for no reason.

not a single word

 

[hypergamy]

How did genio change you from the front? And how did you decide on movement with your doc?

 

[rubybrrr]

My dude, you are on to something.

I have a similar situation where i had orthodontics through my teen years. I have a class 1 bite because of camouflage orthodontics.
Surgeon said I don't need decompensation, since my teeth inclination and bite is already good.

I also feel like my lower jaw is forcibly sitting a bit backwards and jutting feels more natural. Even when I lift heavy, I hardmew + jut my jaw forward because its easier to breathe like that.

My ct scans show the same, mandible is fine, just a downwards grown chin as well as maxillary excess.

I tried pushing for DJS, but the surgeon insisted that my mandible is big enough.
In my case (class 1 bite + gummy smile + downards chin) I had a choice of 2 options:
1) Just doing a 6-8mm genio
2) Lefort 1 impaction + genio

The goal of impaction would be to reduce my gum show while smiling and to autorotate my lower jaw forwards and up.


Recently I have started seeing a trend of doing just upper jaw surgery. You can check my last posts about it, here's some interesting data too from one of the studies i have read: These are tables of movements for single vs double jaw surgery.
View attachment 1803981View attachment 1803982

The interesting part is that single jaw vs double jaw surgery absolute movements are really similar imo, no more than 3mm median difference.
Depending on the case, you can get most of the movement/benefit from single jaw augmentation with way less risk, since BSSO has the highest complication rate.

Of course this option won't work if your mandible is actually deficient, that's for your surgeon to decide.

You are on the right path, but definitely doing it the wrong way, don't fuck up your jaw/bite by forcing an underbite, go talk to a surgeon about this.
Do you have a gummy smile?



It can, but with modern 3d planning, the chance of that minimized. Again, it depends on your jaws, if your mandible is fine, then the risk is smaller.
There were studies looking at how the condyles/tmj react to their new position after single jaw surgery induced mandibular autorotation and overall it looks like the risk is small and the movement/new position is very stable.

Of course, there are risk factors for condylar resporption(small mandible, being a female, existing bite issues ect.), but that is just part of the risk of orthognatic surgery.
Here is a female who had impaction + genioplasty, but had condylar resorption, even then IMO she looks better than her starting point.
There are more before & afters in my other posts.
View attachment 1803997
Again, the risk for males is less and the movement is generally stable, just showing you that it is possible.


Tbh, I agree, this is retarded. Jutting your lower jaw forward and forcibly trying to create an underbite is really unpredictable, risky and might fuck your jaw/bite in ways you can't even imagine yet.

BUT the general idea of repositioning your mandible with upper jaw/single jaw surgery is legit and is becoming way more popular recently. There are a lot of new studies becoming available about this topic.


Here are a few examples of impaction induced autorotation + genio(or no genio):
View attachment 1804007
View attachment 1804009View attachment 1804010

what do u mean I’m on the right path but doing it wrong? I’m on the right path and doing it right. I’m not forcing an underbite. Like i said it’s my natural position and more comfortable than caging my mandible back. In fact ever since I started doing this I can no longer fit my bottom teeth behind my front and not I have a permanent edge to edge bite/underbite. And yes slight gummy smile.

 

[ChristianChad]

My dude, you are on to something.

I have a similar situation where i had orthodontics through my teen years. I have a class 1 bite because of camouflage orthodontics.
Surgeon said I don't need decompensation, since my teeth inclination and bite is already good.

I also feel like my lower jaw is forcibly sitting a bit backwards and jutting feels more natural. Even when I lift heavy, I hardmew + jut my jaw forward because its easier to breathe like that.

My ct scans show the same, mandible is fine, just a downwards grown chin as well as maxillary excess.

I tried pushing for DJS, but the surgeon insisted that my mandible is big enough.
In my case (class 1 bite + gummy smile + downards chin) I had a choice of 2 options:
1) Just doing a 6-8mm genio
2) Lefort 1 impaction + genio

The goal of impaction would be to reduce my gum show while smiling and to autorotate my lower jaw forwards and up.


Recently I have started seeing a trend of doing just upper jaw surgery. You can check my last posts about it, here's some interesting data too from one of the studies i have read: These are tables of movements for single vs double jaw surgery.
View attachment 1803981View attachment 1803982

The interesting part is that single jaw vs double jaw surgery absolute movements are really similar imo, no more than 3mm median difference.
Depending on the case, you can get most of the movement/benefit from single jaw augmentation with way less risk, since BSSO has the highest complication rate.

Of course this option won't work if your mandible is actually deficient, that's for your surgeon to decide.

You are on the right path, but definitely doing it the wrong way, don't fuck up your jaw/bite by forcing an underbite, go talk to a surgeon about this.
Do you have a gummy smile?



It can, but with modern 3d planning, the chance of that minimized. Again, it depends on your jaws, if your mandible is fine, then the risk is smaller.
There were studies looking at how the condyles/tmj react to their new position after single jaw surgery induced mandibular autorotation and overall it looks like the risk is small and the movement/new position is very stable.

Of course, there are risk factors for condylar resporption(small mandible, being a female, existing bite issues ect.), but that is just part of the risk of orthognatic surgery.
Here is a female who had impaction + genioplasty, but had condylar resorption, even then IMO she looks better than her starting point.
There are more before & afters in my other posts.
View attachment 1803997
Again, the risk for males is less and the movement is generally stable, just showing you that it is possible.


Tbh, I agree, this is retarded. Jutting your lower jaw forward and forcibly trying to create an underbite is really unpredictable, risky and might fuck your jaw/bite in ways you can't even imagine yet.

BUT the general idea of repositioning your mandible with upper jaw/single jaw surgery is legit and is becoming way more popular recently. There are a lot of new studies becoming available about this topic.


Here are a few examples of impaction induced autorotation + genio(or no genio):
View attachment 1804007
View attachment 1804009View attachment 1804010

Amazing reply

 

[Deleted member 19766]

i am the exact same, OP.

 

[Eunuch]

Can moving mandible forward affect TMJ in a bad way? There is an appliance that does that but I read about some complaints regarding TMJ issues.

it depends and has random elements. generally the better your nasal breathing is the more orthorape will naturally correct itself over time, genio or not

genio itself improves sleep apnea (sometime barely, sometimes drastically) so may be worth it for mental benefits

 

[Deleted member 19766]

Can moving mandible forward affect TMJ in a bad way? There is an appliance that does that but I read about some complaints regarding TMJ issues.

What's the appliance called?

 

[Deleted member 19766]

it depends and has random elements. generally the better your nasal breathing is the more orthorape will naturally correct itself over time, genio or not

genio itself improves sleep apnea (sometime barely, sometimes drastically) so may be worth it for mental benefits

I thought genio only affects chin? Like projection mainly, but also potentially height or width? Does genio affect lower jaw at all? Because I thought sleep apnea was caused by a recessed lower jaw and that the chin itself technically had nothing to do with it.

 

[Eunuch]

Because I thought sleep apnea was caused by a recessed lower jaw and that the chin itself technically had nothing to do with it.

Case Study: Sliding Genioplasty for Obstructive Sleep Apnea - Explore Plastic Surgery

Background: Sleep apnea is a well known nocturnal disorder in which one’s breathing is either very shallow or actually pauses during sleep. It is the length of these breathing pauses that are significant as they result in a drop of one’s oxygen levels due to decreased air intake. This creates a...

exploreplasticsurgery.com

 

[Mr.Proper]

What's the appliance called?

One of them is Herbs appliance