Can someone look at this trimax simulation and see if it is a reasonable plan for me?

[surgeryplanning]

Surgeon wants to do 4mm LF1 and BSSO with 10MM sliding genio and CCW.

 

[chrishell]

Overadvanced

Who is the surgeon

 

[Asspear]

I'm no expert but this absolutely looks overadvanced to my untrained eye. I'm worried this would give a banana-jaw appearance.

 

[surgeryplanning]

I'm no expert but this absolutely looks overadvanced to my untrained eye. I'm worried this would give a banana-jaw appearance.

Thanks. What makes you say there is an overadvancement?

 

[F_Wilks]

Do pretty much all surgeons have 3D planning like this?

 

[Asspear]

Thanks. What makes you say there is an overadvancement?

When you look at the projected result in profile, the chin (and entire lower jaw, really) is basically flush with the nose, whereas the upper lip is still being left behind. That's what's giving me the impression of it being overadvanced. However I'm not an expert, so take it for what it is.

 

[latetothegame]

Overadvanced, who is the surgeon.

 

[surgeryplanning]

Overadvanced, who is the surgeon.

Thanks. What would you correct? DM me for surgeon name

 

[surgeryplanning]

Overadvanced

Who is the surgeon

Thanks. Which is over advanced lower or upper jaw? DM me for surgeon

 

[SubhumanForever]

@BlackpillRemedy thoughts?

 

[SubhumanForever]

MMs of BONE

 

[surgeryplanning]

MMs of BONE
View attachment 3107495

What did you change in the Post op besides the nose?

 

[Asspear]

MMs of BONE
View attachment 3107495

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like this morph is essentially emulating a LF2 instead, right? Brings the upper lip into better proportion with the BSSO and genio. Also a rhino I suppose.

 

[SubhumanForever]

What did you change in the Post op besides the nose?

Upper maxilla. You are recessed as shit, man. I don't think surgery can save you.

 

[chrishell]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like this morph is essentially emulating a LF2 instead, right? Brings the upper lip into better proportion with the BSSO and genio. Also a rhino I suppose.

Yes. He'd need a LF2 to get anything close to that morph.

That's your biggest issue op, the nose is too recessed. I would ask the surgeons you are consulting with about LF2 and see what they think.
If no LF2 you might consider implants to the paranasal area along with a projection rhinoplasty. As it stands, your face won't be able to stomach much BSSO and LeFort 1 movement.

The simulation in OP is far too forward for both your nose and your nasion. They will be too set back in relation to your chin afterwards. The high gonial angle in combination with these other issues also means you cannot get much CCW without having a banana jaw.

 

[surgeryplanning]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like this morph is essentially emulating a LF2 instead, right? Brings the upper lip into better proportion with the BSSO and genio. Also a rhino I suppose.

What can be done to improve the upper lip position like in the new morph? I know the nose is Rhino Which I won't be getting but the Lip Position - is that achievable?

 

[Asspear]

What can be done to improve the upper lip position like in the new morph? I know the nose is Rhino Which I won't be getting but the Lip Position - is that achievable?

See @chrishell comment above - his posts are consistently very good. Here, see the imaged attached:

You can see the most substantial difference made in @SubhumanForever 's post circled in red. That area is not going to be touched by a LF1, but would by a LF2. Paranasal implants can help but from what I've generally seen they can't get you that much projection. It's the entire nasal column. I think the reason subhumanforever gave you a rhino is that a LF2 will advance the base of the nasal column significantly, so you'd also need a rhino afterwards since it will significantly impact your nose.

The alternative would be the paranasal implants with a projection rhino, which I've seen result in some favourable cases. Personally, if none of that sounds palatable, I'd probably go softer on your current plans for the BSSO/Genio, but as I said, I am no expert.

 

[chrishell]

See @chrishell comment above - his posts are consistently very good. Here, see the imaged attached:
View attachment 3107552

You can see the most substantial difference made in @SubhumanForever 's post circled in red. That area is not going to be touched by a LF1, but would by a LF2. Paranasal implants can help but from what I've generally seen they can't get you that much projection. It's the entire nasal column. I think the reason subhumanforever gave you a rhino is that a LF2 will advance the base of the nasal column significantly, so you'd also need a rhino afterwards since it will significantly impact your nose.

The alternative would be the paranasal implants with a projection rhino, which I've seen result in some favourable cases. Personally, if none of that sounds palatable, I'd probably go softer on your current plans for the BSSO/Genio, but as I said, I am no expert.

To be fair though that morph is ridiculously advanced

My friend just made this one that is a bit more realistic:



About the shape of the upper lip, I would ask your surgeons about your incisor inclination.

 

[Asspear]

To be fair though that morph is ridiculously advanced

Oh absolutely, but it was good for illustrative purposes.

 

[T_T]

Whats your race? Looks like you have bimaxillary protrusion I thought lefort 1 was bad for bimaxillary protrusioncels
upper maxilla looks fucked compared to lower maxilla

 

[surgeryplanning]

Whats your race? Looks like you have bimaxillary protrusion I thought lefort 1 was bad for bimaxillary protrusioncels
upper maxilla looks fucked compared to lower maxilla

Im White

 

[SubhumanForever]

I thought lefort 1 was bad for bimaxillary protrusioncels

You don't know what you are talking about JFL.

 

[T_T]

You don't know what you are talking about JFL.

?

 

[SwollenNotSwole]

The real problem here is that ur upper maxilla is recessed. AFAIK this is only fixable with LF2, which u aren't going to get. I would recommend a sliding genio if ur bite is fine OR a more conservative movement (slight CCW).

 

[SubhumanForever]

I would recommend a sliding genio

Except it's not goong to do anything

 

[gravlek]

Except it's not goong to do anything

It would be a masking surgery. It wouldn’t fix the root cause, just hide it a bit. Whether it’s worth it is another thing.

 

[Lyxguxx]

JFL nigga.

 

[gravlek]

The alternative would be the paranasal implants with a projection rhino, which I've seen result in some favourable cases. Personally, if none of that sounds palatable, I'd probably go softer on your current plans for the BSSO/Genio, but as I said, I am no expert.

Paranasal if you just need to fix nasolabial folds but midface implants if you want more fullness in the midface/cheekbone region.



Pre

Post

 

[SubhumanForever]

It would be a masking surgery

In that case he might just wear a bag over his head for the rest of his life

 

[gravlek]

In that case he might just wear a bag over his head for the rest of his life

Minor improvements are still improvements. At this point just become an existentialist or rope if you don’t wanna improve

 

[SubhumanForever]

Minor improvements are still improvements.

No. He is going from subhuman to subhuman so there is no "improvement".

 

[ryuken]

No. He is going from subhuman to subhuman so there is no "improvement".

is there any hope for him if he had big surgeries?

 

[geenk worg]

Surgeon wants to do 4mm LF1 and BSSO with 10MM sliding genio and CCW.View attachment 3106502

No, it looks like shit. concave profile with low nasolabial angle. you also have dentoalveolar protrusion on both jaws. (the protrusion of the lower teeth especially is massive. the surgeon is trying to mask it with a giant genioplasty)

 

[SubhumanForever]

is there any hope for him if he had big surgeries?

Again, he needs lefort 2 and he won't get it so yes it's over.

 

[geenk worg]

Again, he needs lefort 2 and he won't get it so yes it's over.

I think he'd do fine with cheekbone implants and genioplasty. MMA is definitely not the solution here.

 

[SubhumanForever]

I think he'd do fine with cheekbone implants and genioplasty. MMA is definitely not the solution here.

If by "fine" you mean he would go from subhuman to subhuman then yeah you are right bro.

 

[geenk worg]

If by "fine" you mean he would go from subhuman to subhuman then yeah you are right bro.

what makes you think lefort 2 is what he needs? His lower maxilla is in good position compared to the upper maxilla. It's not gonna change the discrepancy. Paranasal implants may be also needed here.

 

[SubhumanForever]

what makes you think lefort 2 is what he needs?

MMs of BONE
View attachment 3107495

 

[geenk worg]

@SubhumanForever do you even know what lefort 2 is? that morph is not anywhere similar.

 

[SubhumanForever]

@SubhumanForever do you even know what lefort 2 is? that morph is not anywhere similar.

Read the thread. Everyone agrees that in order to achive my morph he needs LF2.

 

[geenk worg]

Read the thread. Everyone agrees that in order to achive my morph he needs LF2.

why would anyone want to achieve that it doesn't even look good. the nose looks too far forward and too small and the nasolabial angle is too large

 

[toolateforme]

To be fair though that morph is ridiculously advanced

My friend just made this one that is a bit more realistic:



About the shape of the upper lip, I would ask your surgeons about your incisor inclination.

I wonder this amount of midface projection is achievable without high lefort or lefort 2.

 

[lookmaxxer998]

You need infra implants dude. It only looks over advanced bc the mid face is not addressed

 

[geenk worg]

You need infra implants dude. It only looks over advanced bc the mid face is not addressed

It's overadvanced regardless. The only reason why the mandible doesn't look gigantic is because his gonions are too far forward.

 

[toolateforme]

You need infra implants dude. It only looks over advanced bc the mid face is not addressed

Infra implant won't fix this.. simply looks like a bad plan. maybe you need aso op.
And in this image op you are jutting ur jaw forward so it gives some illusion. I think drawing Frankfort plane angle and assessing the positions of landmarks in comparison to it would be helpful to know if this is actually overadvancement. By my eyes this looks overadvancement. I wouldn't do this.

 

[SubhumanForever]

why would anyone want to achieve that it doesn't even look good.

it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to make a better morph

 

[geenk worg]

it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to make a better morph

You don't know shit about aesthetics dude I've seen too many of your comments to know this.

 

[SubhumanForever]

You don't know shit about aesthetics dude I've seen too many of your comments to know this.

>No argument
Easy victory.

 

[geenk worg]

the nose looks too far forward and too small and the nasolabial angle is too large

>No argument
Easy victory.

I actually had an argument you just chose to ignore it.

 

[SubhumanForever]

I actually had an argument you just chose to ignore it.

That's not an argument you fucking moron. That's just your opinion.