carbs and cutting

[grimjoww]

i wanna know thoughts on carbs and how they may affect ur cutting progress, calories are calories right? like if u eat in a deficit u're bound to lose weight and get leaner right? i mean that's just common sense but tell me like besides the water weight that carbs are known as the bad guy for which isn't permanent and only temporary, carbs are not inherently bad and actually necessary for ur body to function right? what matters is if u eat enough protein and stay in a deficit, less carbs won't make u leaner a cal deficit will. so my question is why are carbs considered the bad guy?

 

[chadisbeingmade]

like if u eat in a deficit u're bound to lose weight and get leaner right?

Yes.

actually necessary for ur body to function right?

No.

what matters is if u eat enough protein and stay in a deficit, less carbs won't make u leaner a cal deficit will.

Yes.

 

[grimjoww]

Yes.


No.


Yes.

Why the no? We have researches on how carbs fuel glycogen stores, make u look fuller and obv the energy factor too, besides that one more question, does it matter if u eat carbs or not as long as u eat ur protein and stay in a calorie deficit?
(Im talking about the effects of that solely on facial aesthetics)

 

[chadisbeingmade]

Why the no?

It is not a necessary macronutrient to eat at all. It’s the only non essential macro nutrient. Do you think Carnivores who eat 0 carbs just drop dead or something? Fat is an energy source also.

does it matter if u eat carbs or not as long as u eat ur protein and stay in a calorie deficit?

I said it doesn’t matter. Calorie deficit is calorie deficit.

(Im talking about the effects of that solely on facial aesthetics)

Carbs bloat but because of the insulin spike that is needed in order to uptake glucose into cells to store as glycogen in the first place.

 

[danilioqqq]

Not eating carbs is ideal for fat loss since you aren't triggering the randle cycle (competition for oxidation between fat and glucose [carbs])
Therefore, your body adapts to function entirely on ketones which come from fatty acids.
Have lost 10kg doing carnivore and im eating as much as want

 

[danilioqqq]

Also, glucose is "needed" to function but gluconeogenesis takes care of that.

You need 0 exogenous carbohydrates to function optimally

 

[grimjoww]

Also, glucose is "needed" to function but gluconeogenesis takes care of that.

You need 0 exogenous carbohydrates to function optimally

So if i don't eat carbs at all it's actually beneficial for my weight loss progress? what changes do u observe shifting to a keto diet since calorie deficit is a calorie deficit

 

[danilioqqq]

So if i don't eat carbs at all it's actually beneficial for my weight loss progress? what changes do u observe shifting to a keto diet since calorie deficit is a calorie deficit

Calories aren’t really accurate at representing human metabolism since we process food chemically

Changes? I eat much less often, cured my acne, better mood, walking through walls etc

 

[Zeekie]

i wanna know thoughts on carbs and how they may affect ur cutting progress, calories are calories right? like if u eat in a deficit u're bound to lose weight and get leaner right? i mean that's just common sense but tell me like besides the water weight that carbs are known as the bad guy for which isn't permanent and only temporary, carbs are not inherently bad and actually necessary for ur body to function right? what matters is if u eat enough protein and stay in a deficit, less carbs won't make u leaner a cal deficit will. so my question is why are carbs considered the bad guy?

Carbs are neither bad nor good when used appropriately, if you train hard and do cardio, despite what carnivore dudes may tell you, you're going to need carbohydrates to function correctly as converting fat into glucose is a very inefficient process, anyone in a carnivore, keto or low-carb diet is underperforming.

Despite all of this I do prefer to eat a moderate amount of carbohydrates, I used to eat a lot of them when I was very into fitness, but now I see now use for it, I definitely don't go low either, as I still train, plus low carbohydrate has a bad effect on your cortisol, but equally high carb diets will spike your insulin, and cause certain level of brain fogginess, plus they have the undesired effect of actually increasing your hunger because of reasons I won't touch.

As a general rule, aim to do moderate carbohydrate when cutting (about 2-3g of carbs per kg), and high carb (as much as 40-60% of your caloric intake) when bulking, that just makes the process easier. But you've nailed the point really, calories are calories and weight loss just comes down to being in a deficit, but it is also true that manipulating your diet in certain ways can make the process much easier, harder, but also be taxing on your hormones and training.

 

[grimjoww]

Carbs are neither bad nor good when used appropriately, if you train hard and do cardio, despite what carnivore dudes may tell you, you're going to need carbohydrates to function correctly as converting fat into glucose is a very inefficient process, anyone in a carnivore, keto or low-carb diet is underperforming.

Despite all of this I do prefer to eat a moderate amount of carbohydrates, I used to eat a lot of them when I was very into fitness, but now I see now use for it, I definitely don't go low either, as I still train, plus low carbohydrate has a bad effect on your cortisol, but equally high carb diets will spike your insulin, and cause certain level of brain fogginess, plus they have the undesired effect of actually increasing your hunger because of reasons I won't touch.

As a general rule, aim to do moderate carbohydrate when cutting (about 2-3g of carbs per kg), and high carb (as much as 40-60% of your caloric intake) when bulking, that just makes the process easier. But you've nailed the point really, calories are calories and weight loss just comes down to being in a deficit, but it is also true that manipulating your diet in certain ways can make the process much easier, harder, but also be taxing on your hormones and training.

PRECISELY.

 

[grimjoww]

Calories aren’t really accurate at representing human metabolism since we process food chemically

Changes? I eat much less often, cured my acne, better mood, walking through walls etc

Yea but how do uk u're not underperforming w zero carbs? Studies do show a direct co relation of carbs, energy and ur hormones, u MIGHT be underperforming in the gym or maybe some sport that u do because of a no carb diet, it is sustainable i agree but how do yk u're working at ur full potential each day?

 

[grimjoww]

Calories aren’t really accurate at representing human metabolism since we process food chemically

Changes? I eat much less often, cured my acne, better mood, walking through walls etc

The changes u mentioned are not really because of carbs, the same changes can be observed if u eat clean and a well rounded diet, walking thru walls JFL
@Zeekie he might be underperforming without knowing it?

 

[danilioqqq]

Yea but how do uk u're not underperforming w zero carbs? Studies do show a direct co relation of carbs, energy and ur hormones, u MIGHT be underperforming in the gym or maybe some sport that u do because of a no carb diet, it is sustainable i agree but how do yk u're working at ur full potential each day?

I don't know, though my performance remained relatively stable considering I lost 10 kilos
I also feel like I have more endurance (not necessarily due to the lost weight bc i've started noticing it on like week 2)

also yes, a many people experience a drop in performance but that's usually temporary due to a period of adaptation

 

[danilioqqq]

I don't know, though my performance remained relatively stable considering I lost 10 kilos
I also feel like I have more endurance

also yes, a many people experience a drop in performance but that's usually temporary due to a period of adaptation

and even if I am underperforming Im fine with making that sacrifice tbh
feel so much better, clearer and healthier on keto

 

[danilioqqq]

Carbs are neither bad nor good when used appropriately, if you train hard and do cardio, despite what carnivore dudes may tell you, you're going to need carbohydrates to function correctly as converting fat into glucose is a very inefficient process, anyone in a carnivore, keto or low-carb diet is underperforming.

Despite all of this I do prefer to eat a moderate amount of carbohydrates, I used to eat a lot of them when I was very into fitness, but now I see now use for it, I definitely don't go low either, as I still train, plus low carbohydrate has a bad effect on your cortisol, but equally high carb diets will spike your insulin, and cause certain level of brain fogginess, plus they have the undesired effect of actually increasing your hunger because of reasons I won't touch.

As a general rule, aim to do moderate carbohydrate when cutting (about 2-3g of carbs per kg), and high carb (as much as 40-60% of your caloric intake) when bulking, that just makes the process easier. But you've nailed the point really, calories are calories and weight loss just comes down to being in a deficit, but it is also true that manipulating your diet in certain ways can make the process much easier, harder, but also be taxing on your hormones and training.

calories aren't really accurate tho, are they? we aren't closed thermodynamic systems

the calorie approach mainly works bc people just starve and malnourish themselves with eating 2k calories
metabolically, 2k "calories" of candy and 2k "calories" of steak will result in vastly different outcomes

 

[grimjoww]

AGREED.

calories aren't really accurate tho, are they? we aren't closed thermodynamic systems

the calorie approach mainly works bc people just starve and malnourish themselves with eating 2k calories
metabolically, 2k "calories" of candy and 2k "calories" of steak will result in vastly different outcomes

 

[grimjoww]

and even if I am underperforming Im fine with making that sacrifice tbh
feel so much better, clearer and healthier on keto

Yea im gonna try keto soon as well, the best part i like about that is it keeps u full and saturated

 

[grimjoww]

Yea im gonna try keto soon as well, the best part i like about that is it keeps u full and saturated

Also the benefits of being on an animal based diet are countless, goes without saying

 

[danilioqqq]

Yea im gonna try keto soon as well, the best part i like about that is it keeps u full and saturated

I tried cutting on a "regular" diet before and never succeeded bc im a bitch
now I can eat as much as I want and still lose weight

 

[grimjoww]

I tried cutting on a "regular" diet before and never succeeded bc im a bitch
now I can eat as much as I want and still lose weight

Yea that's why it suits u, i have a pretty good control of myself although yea i do slip which could be prevented w keto as it keeps u full and still leaves room that's the best thing about keto for me personally but i've not had much difficulty w regular diet too

 

[Zeekie]

calories aren't really accurate tho, are they? we aren't closed thermodynamic systems

the calorie approach mainly works bc people just starve and malnourish themselves with eating 2k calories
metabolically, 2k "calories" of candy and 2k "calories" of steak will result in vastly different outcomes

Well yeah, looking at only calories and macronutrients is only paying attention to one leg of the table, different foods will have different effects on your hormones, blood sugar and nutrition.

Despite that, you said it perfectly, the calorie model works, if you're in a caloric deficit, no matter what foods you eat you'll often lose weight, is losing weight regardless of the foods you consume healthy? Not at all, but purely as a metric of energy in our bodies it works, calories only claim to tell you what they tell.

My view on most things is, if it ain't broken, and it is mostly working, then there's no need to fix it unless something substantially better comes up. Alternatives to counting calories are often very, very inconvenient, so most people wouldn't put it in practice anyway. I both count calories and pay a lot of attention to what kinds of food am I getting those calories from.

Both are important, yes.

 

[Zeekie]

I don't know, though my performance remained relatively stable considering I lost 10 kilos
I also feel like I have more endurance (not necessarily due to the lost weight bc i've started noticing it on like week 2)

also yes, a many people experience a drop in performance but that's usually temporary due to a period of adaptation

Also reading through a few of the comments, I've done keto a couple of times, did the horrible mistake of doing it also when I was doing a lot of BJJ, I did the keto diet for about 2 months, measuring my fat, protein and carb intake, so I was definitely in a ketogenic state, and yes my performance decreased, and so it seems to be the case for most athletes on a ketogenic diet.

Carbohydrates simply are a much more accessible source of energy, so much so that when you exercise, your body inevitably turns the fat into sugar anyway through gluconeogenesis. It's the same reason why a lot of people claim beta-carotene is not "real vitamin A", that's a misconception, beta-carotene is eventually turned into usable retinol, but a good point they make is that the conversion is inefficient and that's why it is much better to just eat straight up retinol to avoid a deficiency, despite me not fully subscribing to that idea, it is technically scientifically accurate.

When you're in a ketogenic state a lot of things happen which will tank your performance, there's reduce energy availability (specially for explosive movements) since gluconeogenesis is bad at making glucose, there's a slight increase in resting cortisol and your body is put in less of an anabolic state. Don't get me wrong, keto can work for a lot of people, but for those who want high performance in a sport or in the gym, it isn't a viable option

 

[danilioqqq]

Well yeah, looking at only calories and macronutrients is only paying attention to one leg of the table, different foods will have different effects on your hormones, blood sugar and nutrition.

Despite that, you said it perfectly, the calorie model works, if you're in a caloric deficit, no matter what foods you eat you'll often lose weight, is losing weight regardless of the foods you consume healthy? Not at all, but purely as a metric of energy in our bodies it works, calories only claim to tell you what they tell.

My view on most things is, if it ain't broken, and it is mostly working, then there's no need to fix it unless something substantially better comes up. Alternatives to counting calories are often very, very inconvenient, so most people wouldn't put it in practice anyway. I both count calories and pay a lot of attention to what kinds of food am I getting those calories from.

Both are important, yes.

oh yeah true
for some reason I got locked up on answering about the most optiman or healthy way which wasn't necessarily the question

 

[danilioqqq]

Also reading through a few of the comments, I've done keto a couple of times, did the horrible mistake of doing it also when I was doing a lot of BJJ, I did the keto diet for about 2 months, measuring my fat, protein and carb intake, so I was definitely in a ketogenic state, and yes my performance decreased, and so it seems to be the case for most athletes on a ketogenic diet.

Carbohydrates simply are a much more accessible source of energy, so much so that when you exercise, your body inevitably turns the fat into sugar anyway through gluconeogenesis. It's the same reason why a lot of people claim beta-carotene is not "real vitamin A", that's a misconception, beta-carotene is eventually turned into usable retinol, but a good point they make is that the conversion is inefficient and that's why it is much better to just eat straight up retinol to avoid a deficiency, despite me not fully subscribing to that idea, it is technically scientifically accurate.

When you're in a ketogenic state a lot of things happen which will tank your performance, there's reduce energy availability (specially for explosive movements) since gluconeogenesis is bad at making glucose, there's a slight increase in resting cortisol and your body is put in less of an anabolic state. Don't get me wrong, keto can work for a lot of people, but for those who want high performance in a sport or in the gym, it isn't a viable option

my performance came back after like a month at most
was hard at first yeah

 

[grimjoww]

Well yeah, looking at only calories and macronutrients is only paying attention to one leg of the table, different foods will have different effects on your hormones, blood sugar and nutrition.

Despite that, you said it perfectly, the calorie model works, if you're in a caloric deficit, no matter what foods you eat you'll often lose weight, is losing weight regardless of the foods you consume healthy? Not at all, but purely as a metric of energy in our bodies it works, calories only claim to tell you what they tell.

My view on most things is, if it ain't broken, and it is mostly working, then there's no need to fix it unless something substantially better comes up. Alternatives to counting calories are often very, very inconvenient, so most people wouldn't put it in practice anyway. I both count calories and pay a lot of attention to what kinds of food am I getting those calories from.

Both are important, yes.

PRECISELY