Cheekbones: Male vs Female

MisterMercedes

MisterMercedes

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Apologies if this thread has been made before, but I haven’t seen mention of this and think it should be covered.

There are many differences in the masculine dimorphic cheekbone vs feminine dimorphic cheekbone. The first is one is the zygomatic process of the temporal:

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In the male dimorphic skull, this bone is thick and high. In the feminine dimorphic skull, it is thin and low:

1607199463735


This difference in zygomatic position is why male eye sockets are often smaller and more quadrangular, while female’s are larger and more circular.

Another difference lies in the flaring of the temporal surface of the zygomatic.

1607199664437


(Temporal surface is the “E” area)

In the masculine skull, this surface flares outward, and thus the zygomatic arch as a whole is more bowed laterally. In the feminine skull, this surface lacks that flaring and the zygomatic arch lies closer to the face.

1607199956787

As you can see, the male skull’s zygomatic flares out farther from the the face, and the arch is thus more pronounced.

What this looks like in real life:

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In addition to this, the male zygomatic is vertically larger, extending more into
the inferior direction. Contrary to what some people on this forum think, vertically narrow cheekbones are feminine, not masculine:

1607200555973


What this looks like in real life:

1607201447523


1607201330659


Finally, the orbital surface of the zygomatic (surface that attaches to the frontal bone) is different in males and females. In the male skull, it is steeper, forming a more right angle to the zygomatic, and the posterior notch is more pronounced. In the female skull, it slopes more forward, forming a more obtuse angle to the zygomatic, and lacks the prominent posterior notch of the male skull. This is why the borders of the male socket are more rounded, while the female’s are sharper:

1607199956787
 
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i am christian
 
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Awesome, now but some bold, some colors, maybe 26 fonts and this will go straight to BoB!
 
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zygos aren't really a dimorphic trait; forehead, brow bone, nasal bridge, jaw, chin and mouth areas are places to look for dimorphism.
 
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zygos aren't really a dimorphic trait; forehead, brow bone, nasal bridge, jaw, chin and mouth areas are places to look for dimorphism.
All of those, including zygos, are dimorphic areas of the skull.



 
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Good thread. In researching ZSO, I was looking for what cuts some surgeons were doing. Some have cuts more feminized while others have come around to the arch being the most important part of the male cheekbone. Overall forward growth of the cheekbone is not that important for men. Lateral projection near the Zygomatic arch is the dealbreaker for bad to good cheekbones.
 
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nice thread, enjoyed reading tbh
 
Good thread. In researching ZSO, I was looking for what cuts some surgeons were doing. Some have cuts more feminized while others have come around to the arch being the most important part of the male cheekbone. Overall forward growth of the cheekbone is not that important for men. Lateral projection near the Zygomatic arch is the dealbreaker for bad to good cheekbones.

To expand on this, it's well known a guy like Cavill has good cheekbones, but retrospectively, he barely has an Ogee curve despite having a good jaw and browridge (other forms of dimorphism). His good cheekbones come from said arch being forward and laterally projected, not the entire body of the zygoma.
 
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Good thread. In researching ZSO, I was looking for what cuts some surgeons were doing. Some have cuts more feminized while others have come around to the arch being the most important part of the male cheekbone. Overall forward growth of the cheekbone is not that important for men. Lateral projection near the Zygomatic arch is the dealbreaker for bad to good cheekbones.
Indeed, but there is some research that says a long zygomatic process of the temporal is a masculine dimorphic trait. When this process is longer, the zygomatic is positioned more forward relative to the maxilla and thus the “ogee curve” is formed. I didn’t include this in the thread because it’s not as definitive, but it I think is worth mentioning.

Examples of a long zygomatic process of the temporal as opposed to short.

1607202381141
 
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All of those, including zygos, are dimorphic areas of the skull.



I see.
 
Indeed, but there is some research that says a long zygomatic process of the temporal is a masculine dimorphic trait. When this process is longer, the zygomatic is positioned more forward relative to the maxilla and thus the “ogee curve” is formed. I didn’t include this in the thread because it’s not as definitive, but it I think is worth mentioning.

Examples of a long zygomatic process of the temporal as opposed to short.

View attachment 851276

Would not surprise me, I just don't find it that particularly "needed" for the male aesthetic. The most "slaying" pheno's of men (Med and North Atlantid) typically lack undereye support on average (not that it isn't there, just it's not overly prominent) but they make up for it with jaw, lateral zygos projection and overall good midfaces. Longer zygomatic process contributing to more forward grown zygoma is more of a pretty boy trait from what I have observed. Definitely good, but without any other dimorphism, it comes off a bit feminine.
 
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Would not surprise me, I just don't find it that particularly "needed" for the male aesthetic. The most "slaying" pheno's of men (Med and North Atlantid) typically lack undereye support on average (not that it isn't there, just it's not overly prominent) but they make up for it with jaw, lateral zygos projection and overall good midfaces. Longer zygomatic process contributing to more forward grown zygoma is more of a pretty boy trait from what I have observed. Definitely good, but without any other dimorphism, it comes off a bit feminine.
Perhaps. However, I’d way rather have Ramirez’s longer zygomatic process length as opposed to Cavill’s:
1607202899204

From an evolutionary standpoint, it gives your face and eyes better protection (the infraorbital and lateral orbital rim is more forward positioned when the ogee curve is stronger, giving the appearance of deep set eyes).
 
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Perhaps. However, I’d way rather have Ramirez’s longer zygomatic process length as opposed to Cavill’s:
View attachment 851292
From an evolutionary standpoint, it gives your face and eyes better protection (the infraobrital and lateral orbital rim is more forward position when the ogee curve is stronger, giving the appearance of deep set eyes).

Understandable. I can't even cope with saying I would want Ramirez' for the simple reason that he and I have different ratios. I share something somewhat similar in having a slightly shorter face (in terms of compactness) so I literally need to have the zygomatic arch overpower it a little bit. I will say overall Ramirez bone mogs though.
 
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Screen Shot 2020 12 05 at 41834 PM

another example
 
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Understandable. I can't even cope with saying I would want Ramirez' for the simple reason that he and I have different ratios. I share something somewhat similar in having a slightly shorter face (in terms of compactness) so I literally need to have the zygomatic arch overpower it a little bit. I will say overall Ramirez bone mogs though.
I’d say Ramirez mogs Cavill in terms of cheekbones. His arch is more bowed, his zygos are higher set (Cavill has low or androgynous set zygos) leading to more masculinized eye sockets, his zygomatic process of temporal is longer giving him an ogee curve, and he has a leaner face which makes his cheekbones more defined.

In terms of dimorphic bone structure as a whole though, Cavill mogs as he has a more masculine mandible, wider skull, and bossed brow ridge.
 
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I’d say Ramirez mogs Cavill in terms of cheekbones. His arch is more bowed, his zygos are higher set (Cavill has low or androgynous set zygos) leading to more masculinized eye sockets, his zygomatic process of temporal is longer giving him an ogee curve, and he has a leaner face which makes his cheekbones more defined.

In terms of dimorphic bone structure as a whole though, Cavill mogs as he has a more masculine mandible, wider skull, and bossed brow ridge.

Ironically I measured and Cavill's skull is taller than it is wider by a decent amount. But yes, agreed. The mandible (mainly chain) as well as brow ridge give Cavill a more dimorphic look overall.
 
Ironically I measured and Cavill's skull is taller than it is wider by a decent amount. But yes, agreed. The mandible (mainly chain) as well as brow ridge give Cavill a more dimorphic look overall.
Maybe but his skull, by absolute measurement not relative to skull height, seems to be wider than Ramirez’s:

1607203750758
1607203767093
 
Yeah, I can see it. Was just curious. It's all about personal ratios from each person's skill. Ramirez APPEARS wider relative to his own ratios whereas Cavill's skull is taller (common trait in caucasoid skulls).
Perhaps. Cavill also has a shorter nose/midface, thus exaggerating his skull width. I think his skull does look wider but his head height definitely does take away from it a bit.
 
Perhaps. Cavill also has a shorter nose/midface, thus exaggerating his skull width. I think his skull does look wider but his head height definitely does take away from it a bit.

Same "problem" (not really a problem) as I have. It seems quite common in Atlantid and most non-North African admixtured Med backgrounds as well. My brother and I are both like that. It's more apparently in up close pictures due to lens distortion.
 
Same "problem" (not really a problem) as I have. It seems quite common in Atlantid and most non-North African admixtured Med backgrounds as well. My brother and I are both like that. It's more apparently in up close pictures due to lens distortion.
Yeah I didn’t even realize his skull was actually tall (thought it was just his hairline) until morphing it to be more compact:

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401B4ED2 F4A0 44D9 A825 89CFEB5564D3

Not really that noticeable and from a golden ratio perspective his tall skull is actually better than compact as it offsets its width. His head height to head width ratio (unmorphed) comes out a 1.64 which is essentially ideal.
 
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Yeah I didn’t even realize his skull was actually tall (thought it was just his hairline) until morphing it to be more compact:

View attachment 851355View attachment 851356
Not really that noticeable and from a golden ratio perspective his tall skull is actually better than compact as it offsets its width. His head height to head width ratio (unmorphed) comes out a 1.64 which is essentially ideal.

Okay so then the website I used was almost spot on. Mine came out to like 1.65 and that same website said the same as your measurement for Cavill. Now just gotta get a giga wide mandible jfl

Tall skulls are a common white trait. The only whites I have seen to not have this are slavics (wider than taller) and some backgrounds like Scottish and Irish.
 
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are timothees cheekbones masculine or feminine
 
My skull is literally female, but with male chin. Also deformed asymmetric.
Why was I born a male.
I was supposed to be a girl. Fuck this shit...
 
View attachment 851378
are timothees cheekbones masculine or feminine
The vertical position seems to be masculine (androgynous at worst), he has an elongated zygomatic process of maxilla, making his malar surface and ogee more laterally positioned and thus pronounced. His zygomatic arch seems to be somewhat thick and bowed, but may be makeup frauded:

1607205729680

Overall more masculine than average.
 
The vertical position seems to be masculine (androgynous at worst), he has an elongated zygomatic process of maxilla, making his malar surface and ogee more laterally positioned and thus pronounced. His zygomatic arch seems to be somewhat thick and bowed, but may be makeup frauded:

View attachment 851416
Overall more masculine than average.
what makes timothee look feminine tho
 
what makes timothee look feminine tho
Narrow chin, short ramus + short midface, and U shaped hairline (he has styled his hair differently over the years) are the first things that come to mind:

1607206055634

Regardless, he has pretty high appeal as a pretty boy.
 
Apologies if this thread has been made before, but I haven’t seen mention of this and think it should be covered.

There are many differences in the masculine dimorphic cheekbone vs feminine dimorphic cheekbone. The first is one is the zygomatic process of the temporal:

View attachment 851198
In the male dimorphic skull, this bone is thick and high. In the feminine dimorphic skull, it is thin and low:

View attachment 851201

This difference in zygomatic position is why male eye sockets are often smaller and more quadrangular, while female’s are larger and more circular.

Another difference lies in the flaring of the temporal surface of the zygomatic.

View attachment 851212

(Temporal surface is the “E” area)

In the masculine skull, this surface flares outward, and thus the zygomatic arch as a whole is more bowed laterally. In the feminine skull, this surface lacks that flaring and the zygomatic arch lies closer to the face.

View attachment 851217
As you can see, the male skull’s zygomatic flares out farther from the the face, and the arch is thus more pronounced.

What this looks like in real life:

View attachment 851219

In addition to this, the male zygomatic is vertically larger, extending more into
the inferior direction. Contrary to what some people on this forum think, vertically narrow cheekbones are feminine, not masculine:

View attachment 851226

What this looks like in real life:

View attachment 851260

View attachment 851257

Finally, the orbital surface of the zygomatic (surface that attaches to the frontal bone) is different in males and females. In the male skull, it is steeper, forming a more right angle to the zygomatic, and the posterior notch is more pronounced. In the female skull, it slopes more forward, forming a more obtuse angle to the zygomatic, and lacks the prominent posterior notch of the male skull. This is why the borders of the male socket are more rounded, while the female’s are sharper:

View attachment 851217
so how one should design its zygo implant for high set cheekbones ?
 
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Narrow chin, short ramus + short midface, and U shaped hairline (he has styled his hair differently over the years) are the first things that come to mind:

View attachment 851424
Regardless, he has pretty high appeal as a pretty boy.
Also his upper third is the longest third of his face while the lower third is the shortest. His face gets progressively shorter, which is the opposite of masculine facial thirds.
 
so how one should design its zygo implant for high set cheekbones ?
Zygos implants won’t be able to create all the effects of high set zygos (such as more masculine eye area), I’m not even sure they’ll be able to create the illusion of high set zygos. I would ask @RealSurgerymax about implants.
 
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Zygos implants won’t be able to create all the effects of high set zygos (such as more masculine eye area), I’m not even sure they’ll be able to create the illusion of high set zygos. I would ask @RealSurgerymax about implants.
yeah but he takes some time to respond:lul:
 
yeah but he takes some time to respond:lul:
In my opinion, implants typically look mediocre at best. Position of the zygomatic creates many different changes in soft tissue and bone structure that I know implants won’t be able to fully recreate.
 
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Zygos implants won’t be able to create all the effects of high set zygos (such as more masculine eye area), I’m not even sure they’ll be able to create the illusion of high set zygos. I would ask @RealSurgerymax about implants.
dumb post tbh. lots of examples already out there
 
In my opinion, implants typically look mediocre at best. Position of the zygomatic creates many different changes in soft tissue and bone structure that I know implants won’t be able to fully recreate.
yeah, but if your only goal is to fake adding some bone mass into zygomatic arch for higher fwhr?
 
yeah, but if your only goal is to fake adding some bone mass into zygomatic arch for higher fwhr?
That isn’t related to high set cheekbones and is not determined by mass of zygomatic arch either.

What you’re looking for is a bowed or flared zygomatic arch which is thus more laterally pronounced, adding some width to the face. Implants can definitely accomplish this if done correctly.
 
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dumb post tbh. lots of examples already out there
Sorry, but it’s not debatable that they won’t be able to create all the effects actual high set zygos would, one of those being a more masculine eye area.

They may be able to create the illusion of high set zygos, which is why I said “I’m not sure” about that.
 
Sorry, but it’s not debatable that they won’t be able to create all the effects actual high set zygos would, one of those being a more masculine eye area.

They may be able to create the illusion of high set zygos, which is why I said “I’m not sure” about that.
with all my respect, i think you have no knowledge on zygo implants for high set cheekbones. i'm not saying you can make low set as high set with implants.
i'm just talking about if you have high set but not that proturiding, then with implant you make it look a lot better, like models' have.
 
with all my respect, i think you have no knowledge on zygo implants for high set cheekbones. i'm not saying you can make low set as high set with implants.
i'm just talking about if you have high set but not that proturiding, then with implant you make it look a lot better, like models' have.
Sure but that wasn’t what I was initially asked. I was asked if implants designed to create or replicate high set zygos would look good, not implants meant to make zygos more protruding.

Understand that high set ≠ laterally pronounced or forward grown.
 

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