China begins to build socialism

[Beetlejuice]

Based

 

[Uglybrazilian]

It’s inevitable?

On what grounds? Why do Marxists sound like internationalist liberal capitalists when talking about countries?

Marx didn’t say capitalism is a necessity at a start of a communist society, he said it was necessary to start a socialist society (this caused massive arguments in Russia). China has moved away from socialist ideology, it’s not going to drop its current mode of production any time soon.
it has no reason to, China’s economy is running smoothly with a corporatist nationalist model, they have gotten rid of poverty all together, wages are good and it’s trumping the US.

Of course its inevitable jfl because of technological advancements
soon you'll be able to live in Tokyo and go to work in new york, for example. The world converges more and more towards a big, unified society in which there will be no nations. Thats the direction in which history has been progressing: nations are more and more becoming part of a unique international culture. You cant deny that, as much as you dont like it, thats just how history goes. History has its laws, we can only accept it.

"Marx didn’t say capitalism is a necessity at a start of a communist society, he said it was necessary to start a socialist society (this caused massive arguments in Russia)."

Yeah thats basically what I said. A "to be" communist society is of course a socialist society, and in such a society Marx has stated very clearly that there would be a free market and economic inequality, just like in China. So?


"
China has moved away from socialist ideology, it’s not going to drop its current mode of production any time soon.
it has no reason to, China’s economy is running smoothly with a corporatist nationalist model, they have gotten rid of poverty all together, wages are good and it’s trumping the US.
"

Not really. The chinese economic model is pretty much unique to China and follows a step by step plan that takes into accout pragmathic economic matters, such as how to improve productivity etc and ideological matters such as the end goal of Chinese society, which is literally COMMUNISM - as stated by the CCP itself. What we are seeing now(with the common prosperity plan) is the CCP moving towards a more socialist society. Such movement will continue to happen in the next 50 to 100 years, till they finally reach communism. China embraces marxism and communism more and more each and every year. At the end, they will win, proving that communism is possible and desirable to the whole world.

 

[Uglybrazilian]

You are wrong here, Marxism evolved in the late 20th century. used the Marxist dialect of oppressor vs oppressed and the elitism of intellectualism to use for cultural issues, such as race, gender, sexuality etc. The Frankfurt school an academy for Marxist intellectuals collaborated with the CIA and liberals to subvert orthodox Marxism.

Watch this speech to find a move in-depth analysis on cultural Marxism and why Marxists have both lost the battle and won at the same time.

I dont think thats an honest stance. Marxism does have an opressor x opressed element, but so does christianity and many other religions and ideologies throughout history. Thats far from enough to build a correlation between marx's thoughts and neoliberal ideology.

Its like Zizek said in his debate against Peterson: "if they take class struggle and apply it to all social matters, thats literally an anti-marxist stance"

What happens is that many people nowadays adress to marxism things that neither Marx or Engels have ever said. Thats my position here, Im talking about real marxism, not what other people think or say that marxism is, because all ideologies are vulnerable to distortions, there is pro abortion "catholics", gay nazis and all sorts of things, but what matters is the intelectual tradition of those philosophies, not those abominations.


I suspect that, if Marx were alive to discuss all this social matters that bother conservatives so much, he probably would be against both neoliberal and conservative stances, presenting a true materialist view on this problems. Paul cockshott(a serious marxist) does that very well on his analysis of the lgbt movement:https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/08/29/class-and-the-lgtb-lobby/


Thats an example of a true materialist position on a modern social problem.

 

[n0rthface]

Of course its inevitable jfl because of technological advancements
soon you'll be able to live in Tokyo and go to work in new york, for example. The world converges more and more towards a big, unified society in which there will be no nations. Thats the direction in which history has been progressing: nations are more and more becoming part of a unique international culture. You cant deny that, as much as you dont like it, thats just how history goes. History has its laws, we can only accept it.

"Marx didn’t say capitalism is a necessity at a start of a communist society, he said it was necessary to start a socialist society (this caused massive arguments in Russia)."

Yeah thats basically what I said. A "to be" communist society is of course a socialist society, and in such a society Marx has stated very clearly that there would be a free market and economic inequality, just like in China. So?


"
China has moved away from socialist ideology, it’s not going to drop its current mode of production any time soon.
it has no reason to, China’s economy is running smoothly with a corporatist nationalist model, they have gotten rid of poverty all together, wages are good and it’s trumping the US.
"

Not really. The chinese economic model is pretty much unique to China and follows a step by step plan that takes into accout pragmathic economic matters, such as how to improve productivity etc and ideological matters such as the end goal of Chinese society, which is literally COMMUNISM - as stated by the CCP itself. What we are seeing now(with the common prosperity plan) is the CCP moving towards a more socialist society. Such movement will continue to happen in the next 50 to 100 years, till they finally reach communism. China embraces marxism and communism more and more each and every year. At the end, they will win, proving that communism is possible and desirable.

It’s not the natural direction of the world , you are delusional. The current globalisations is forced and needs to be combatted at all costs. Human beings do not mix together, when it happens hurts. To believe humans can all mix together rejects biological reality….which is what Marxism is.


socialism is not the “free market” it’s literally the opposite of the free market. It gets rid of the free market. In a socialist economy you nationalise do the state controls the means of prod- oh sorry I meant “workers”
Socialism is supposed to be the path towards communism’s a classless stateless society.

Do you even know your own ideology



“MUH CHINESE IS PRAGMATIC” SO NOT SOCIALIST THEN????

Deng realised that collectivising the economy is absolutely retard and that Marx was a retarded faggot. He implemented a corporatist economic system which had brought prosperity to China (the Chinese economy is literally the same as fascist Italy/Nazi germany economy)

If anything China is a perfect example of socialism failing under mao, then corporatism and nationalist polices succeeding under deng and the current party. Just because China calls itself communist doesn’t mean it is communist, they are doing to save face.

if you praise China, you are praising a pseudo-Fascist state not a “‘Marxist” one.

“The prosperity plan”
More taxes for the rich is not unique to Marxism.

China has a massive middle class and has the most billionaires in the world, you are incredibly naive if you belief China is just going to turn into a socialist state (which is a FAILURE) instead of continuing along the direction they currently are on.

@TsarTsar444 @WannabeJock @cloUder

 

[Deleted member 15338]

It’s not the natural direction of the world , you are delusional. The current globalisations is forced and needs to be combatted at all costs. Human beings do not mix together, when it happens hurts. To believe humans can all mix together rejects biological reality….which is what Marxism is.


socialism is not the “free market” it’s literally the opposite of the free market. It gets rid of the free market. In a socialist economy you nationalise do the state controls the means of prod- oh sorry I meant “workers”
Socialism is supposed to be the path towards communism’s a classless stateless society.

Do you even know your own ideology



“MUH CHINESE IS PRAGMATIC” SO NOT SOCIALIST THEN????

Deng realised that collectivising the economy is absolutely retard and that Marx was a retarded faggot. He implemented a corporatist economic system which had brought prosperity to China (the Chinese economy is literally the same as fascist Italy/Nazi germany economy)

If anything China is a perfect example of socialism failing under mao, then corporatism and nationalist polices succeeding under deng and the current party. Just because China calls itself communist doesn’t mean it is communist, they are doing to save face.

if you praise China, you are praising a pseudo-Fascist state not a “‘Marxist” one.

“The prosperity plan”
More taxes for the rich is not unique to Marxism.

China has a massive middle class and has the most billionaires in the world, you are incredibly naive if you belief China is just going to turn into a socialist state (which is a FAILURE) instead of continuing along the direction they currently are on.

@TsarTsar444 @WannabeJock @cloUder

Fascism is final outcome of history indeed

 

[n0rthface]

I dont think thats an honest stance. Marxism does have an opressor x opressed element, but so does christianity and many other religions and ideologies throughout history. Thats far from enough to build a correlation between marx's thoughts and neoliberal ideology.

Its like Zizek said in his debate against Peterson: "if they take class struggle and apply it to all social matters, thats literally an anti-marxist stance"

What happens is that many people nowadays adress to marxism things that neither Marx or Engels have ever said. Thats my position here, Im talking about real marxism, not what other people think or say that marxism is, because all ideologies are vulnerable to distortions, there is pro abortion "catholics", gay nazis and all sorts of things, but what matters is the intelectual tradition of those philosophies, not those abominations.


I suspect that, if Marx were alive to discuss all this social matters that bother conservatives so much, he probably would be against both neoliberal and conservative stances, presenting a true materialist view on this problems. Paul cockshott(a serious marxist) does that very well on his analysis of the lgbt movement:https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/08/29/class-and-the-lgtb-lobby/


Thats an example of a true materialist position on a modern social problem.

Yes, Christianity and other Semitic religions are influences on progressivism and Marxism.

yes I agree it’s an anti-orthodox Marxism view, but it’s happened. It’s mainly to the Frankfurt school and CIA subverting Marxism/workers movements during the Cold War.

And yes Marx and Engels would he disgusted if they saw what the majority of “Marxist” today stood for.

 

[Uglybrazilian]

It’s not the natural direction of the world , you are delusional. The current globalisations is forced and needs to be combatted at all costs. Human beings do not mix together, when it happens hurts. To believe humans can all mix together rejects biological reality….which is what Marxism is.


socialism is not the “free market” it’s literally the opposite of the free market. It gets rid of the free market. In a socialist economy you nationalise do the state controls the means of prod- oh sorry I meant “workers”
Socialism is supposed to be the path towards communism’s a classless stateless society.

Do you even know your own ideology



“MUH CHINESE IS PRAGMATIC” SO NOT SOCIALIST THEN????

Deng realised that collectivising the economy is absolutely retard and that Marx was a retarded faggot. He implemented a corporatist economic system which had brought prosperity to China (the Chinese economy is literally the same as fascist Italy/Nazi germany economy)

If anything China is a perfect example of socialism failing under mao, then corporatism and nationalist polices succeeding under deng and the current party. Just because China calls itself communist doesn’t mean it is communist, they are doing to save face.

if you praise China, you are praising a pseudo-Fascist state not a “‘Marxist” one.

“The prosperity plan”
More taxes for the rich is not unique to Marxism.

China has a massive middle class and has the most billionaires in the world, you are incredibly naive if you belief China is just going to turn into a socialist state (which is a FAILURE) instead of continuing along the direction they currently are on.

@TsarTsar444 @WannabeJock @cloUder

There is many problems with your reasoning and also you misinterpreted many of what I said. It looks like you are not familiar with Marx's works at all, so lets go:

"It’s not the natural direction of the world , you are delusional. The current globalisations is forced and needs to be combatted at all costs. Human beings do not mix together, when it happens hurts. To believe humans can all mix together rejects biological reality….which is what Marxism is."

Thats something you would need to prove. From a materialist point of view, its undeniable that society has been going towards globalization since the beginning of industrial capitalism,. Its a stage humanity would of course pass throught, and many thinkers have predicted it way before. You may fight against, ok, but at the end it wont work because a society is defined by its mode of production, not by what people want. Globalization is just a consequence of late capitalism industrial technology.


"socialism is not the “free market” it’s literally the opposite of the free market. It gets rid of the free market. In a socialist economy you nationalise do the state controls the means of prod- oh sorry I meant “workers”
Socialism is supposed to be the path towards communism’s a classless stateless society.

Do you even know your own ideology"

Now its where you show little to no understandment of Marx's thoughts. First, I didnt say socialism is 'free market'(whatever this means), but that Marx himself admitted the necessity of a market and economic inequality in the first stages of a socialist society. That is easily confirmed by the man himself in many of his quotes, such as:

"[...] the right of the producers is proportional to the labor they supply [...]. But, one man is superior to another physically or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only [...]. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal (MARX, 1970, p. 11)."

It seems like I do know my own ideology


lets continue:

"
“MUH CHINESE IS PRAGMATIC” SO NOT SOCIALIST THEN????

Deng realised that collectivising the economy is absolutely retard and that Marx was a retarded faggot. He implemented a corporatist economic system which had brought prosperity to China (the Chinese economy is literally the same as fascist Italy/Nazi germany economy)

If anything China is a perfect example of socialism failing under mao, then corporatism and nationalist polices succeeding under deng and the current party. Just because China calls itself communist doesn’t mean it is communist, they are doing to save face.

if you praise China, you are praising a pseudo-Fascist state not a “‘Marxist” one.
"

Pragmathism does not exclude socialism, why would it? Pragmathism is a philosophy; socialism, on the other way, is just a mode of production. I can be pragmathic and socialist; pragmathic and capitalist; and so on. You are very misinformed, tbh. Most of what you wrote here is almost incomprehensible. How is the chinese economy literally the same as fascist italy? where are your arguments? you just say things and leave it like that? thats not how you debate someone. Also, China did not fail under Mao, the living standards of China were greatly improved under Mao's government and the CCP praises Mao's policies as absolute necessary for what China is today. China is not a pseudo-Fascist state, its a Marxist state. You have to prove its a Fascist state, something you didnt and wont do(because its wrong).



"
“The prosperity plan”
More taxes for the rich is not unique to Marxism.

China has a massive middle class and has the most billionaires in the world, you are incredibly naive if you belief China is just going to turn into a socialist state (which is a FAILURE) instead of continuing along the direction they currently are on.
"

More taxes for the rich is not unique to Marxism, but I didnt say it is. Their plan is not simply more taxes for the rich, its a whole rearrangement of their economy that will conduct the country towards a socialist and then communist state. Also, remember that all Chinese billionaires are constantly monitored by the CCP. Their wealth, and even themselves may disappear as soon as they start using their money to hurt the working class. China has more control over property than the Soviet Union.

 

[n0rthface]

There is many problems with your reasoning and also you misinterpreted many of what I said. It looks like you are not familiar with Marx's works at all, so lets go:

"It’s not the natural direction of the world , you are delusional. The current globalisations is forced and needs to be combatted at all costs. Human beings do not mix together, when it happens hurts. To believe humans can all mix together rejects biological reality….which is what Marxism is."

Thats something you would need to prove. From a materialist point of view, its undeniable that society has been going towards globalization since the beginning of industrial capitalism,. Its a stage humanity would of course pass throught, and many thinkers have predicted it way before. You may fight against, ok, but at the end it wont work because a society is defined by its mode of production, not by what people want. Globalization is just a consequence of late capitalism industrial technology.


"socialism is not the “free market” it’s literally the opposite of the free market. It gets rid of the free market. In a socialist economy you nationalise do the state controls the means of prod- oh sorry I meant “workers”
Socialism is supposed to be the path towards communism’s a classless stateless society.

Do you even know your own ideology"

Now its where you show little to no understandment of Marx's thoughts. First, I didnt say socialism is 'free market'(whatever this means), but that Marx himself admitted the necessity of a market and economic inequality in the first stages of a socialist society. That is easily confirmed by the man himself in many of his quotes, such as:

"[...] the right of the producers is proportional to the labor they supply [...]. But, one man is superior to another physically or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only [...]. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal (MARX, 1970, p. 11)."

It seems like I do know my own ideology


lets continue:

"
“MUH CHINESE IS PRAGMATIC” SO NOT SOCIALIST THEN????

Deng realised that collectivising the economy is absolutely retard and that Marx was a retarded faggot. He implemented a corporatist economic system which had brought prosperity to China (the Chinese economy is literally the same as fascist Italy/Nazi germany economy)

If anything China is a perfect example of socialism failing under mao, then corporatism and nationalist polices succeeding under deng and the current party. Just because China calls itself communist doesn’t mean it is communist, they are doing to save face.

if you praise China, you are praising a pseudo-Fascist state not a “‘Marxist” one.
"

Pragmathism does not exclude socialism, why would it? Pragmathism is a philosophy; socialism, on the other way, is just a mode of production. I can be pragmathic and socialist; pragmathic and capitalist; and so on. You are very misinformed, tbh. Most of what you wrote here is almost incomprehensible. How is the chinese economy literally the same as fascist italy? where are your arguments? you just say things and leave it like that? thats not how you debate someone. Also, China did not fail under Mao, the living standards of China were greatly improved under Mao's government and the CCP praises Mao's policies as absolute necessary for what China is today. China is not a pseudo-Fascist state, its a Marxist state. You have to prove its a Fascist state, something you didnt and wont do(because its wrong).



"
“The prosperity plan”
More taxes for the rich is not unique to Marxism.

China has a massive middle class and has the most billionaires in the world, you are incredibly naive if you belief China is just going to turn into a socialist state (which is a FAILURE) instead of continuing along the direction they currently are on.
"

More taxes for the rich is not unique to Marxism, but I didnt say it is. Their plan is not simply more taxes for the rich, its a whole rearrangement of their economy that will conduct the country towards a socialist and then communist state. Also, remember that all Chinese billionaires are constantly monitored by the CCP. Their wealth, and even themselves may disappear as soon as they start using their money to hurt the working class. China has more control over property than the Soviet Union.

“Society is defined by the mode of production not what people want”
1. This is Marxist horseshit that’s not even true

society is defined by tribal group conflict not the mode of production.

I’m not going to sit here for 3 hours discussing dialectal materialism with you.
So here’s a few videos discussing it



you have literally not understood what I said. I said nations.
CHINA IS FASCIST
The roots of China’s descent into fascism can be traced back to Deng Xiaoping’s ascent to power and economic reforms that openly rejected central planning in favour of market-based economics. These reforms were instrumental in not only achieving China’s rapid economic growth, but also in ensuring a place on the world stage, through opening up the country to global markets. On the surface, these reforms relinquished state power over the economy; but by allowing private enterprise, they laid the foundations for an economy similar to those found in the fascist countries of the 1930s and 40s.

“If Dengism laid the economic roots for the development of Chinese fascism, it is Xi Jinping that allowed it to blossom”

As shown by China’s treatment of Jack Ma and Alibaba, the Chinese state wields enormous power over businesses to help further cement its grip over the population. A core facet of fascism is the weaponisation of capitalism to help further the authority and interests of the government. As opposed to Soviet-style centrally planned economics, fascists are quite content with the development of private monopolies and the conglomeration of private businesses, enriching their owners – as long as it is in the interest of the government to do so. The tolerance of the Zaibatsu by the Imperial Japanese Militarist Government, and the Nazi’s open support of powerful monopolies in Germany such as IG Farben, Krupp and Rheinmetall, pay testament to this. China’s economy is far closer to this form of fascistic weaponised capitalism, tolerating powerful monopolies such as Huawei as long as they continue to silently pledge fealty, than it is to a market-reformed Soviet Union along the lines of Gorbachev’s perestroika.


CHINAS economy is similar to fascist Italys because it says the same economy system WHICH IS CORPORATISM

“THEY ARE JUST BEING PRAGMATIC”
JFL, cope. They are fundamentally REJECTING the socialist economic system.

Chinese corporatism, as described by Jonathan Unger and Anita Chan in their essay China, Corporatism, and the East Asian Model, is the following:

[A]t the national level the state recognizes one and only one organization (say, a national labour union, a business association, a farmers' association) as the sole representative of the sectoral interests of the individuals, enterprises or institutions that comprise that organization's assigned constituency. The state determines which organizations will be recognized as legitimate and forms an unequal partnership of sorts with such organizations. The associations sometimes even get channelled into the policy-making processes and often help implement state policy on the government's behalf.

The political scientist Jean C. Oi coined the term "local state corporatism" to describe China's distinctive type of state-led growth, in which a communist party-state with Leninist roots commits itself to policies which are friendly to the market and to growth.

In its most basic form, corporatism seeks to organize society into associations based on common interests (like business and labor) that work together to achieve harmonious results. The corporatist project is not a socialist one per se, nor on the other hand is it laissez-faire capitalism.

You have also misinterpreted my words, your Marx quote is talking about LABOR. The billionaire capitalists living in China ARENT doing any labor.

Why don’t they just collective right now? China is the second largest economy in the world, surly they have gone through into the capitalist mode of production by now.
(I’ll answer this one for you)
Because socialism is an impractical economic system that would stunt China’s growth, and they have NO REASON to do so as things are running smoothly

Maos government killed 60 million people in the Great Leap Forward
(For the working class amirite )

And you are telling me that’s a success?

Deng purged all the maoists, because mao attacked deng thinking he was a “right wing sympathiser”. Mao at one point ordered a mob of Supporters to attack Dengs son, they broke his legs.
THE PLAN FOR COMMON PROSPERITY


This year, Xi has signalled a heightened commitment to delivering common prosperity, emphasising it is not just an economic objective but core to the party's governing foundation.
Officials say that common prosperity is not egalitarianism.

China's 'common prosperity' push does not mean 'killing the rich', official says​

Those who "get rich first" should help those behind, but hard work should be encouraged,


HOW WILL IT BE ACHIEVED?

Chinese leaders have pledged to use taxation and other income redistribution levers to expand the proportion of middle-income citizens, boost incomes of the poor, "rationally adjust excessive incomes", and ban illegal incomes.

So I was right the common plan for prosperity is mainly taxation and the state encouraging business to act in the interest of the nation.
I never said taxation was unique to Marxism, I’m a fascist not a lolbert I believe in progressive taxes


billionaires being forced to submit to the will of the state is also not unique to “socialist” states.
Germany sent a dozen (German) capitalists to labor camps for exploiting their workers and not acting in the interests of the German people.

in fascist Italy, there’s a famous quote by an industrialist.
“We paid the black shirts to squash the red shirts, now we should pay the red shirts to squash the black shirts”

if there’s one thing we should agree on is that the capitalist class should have the states hands around its throat, if they act against the interests of the nation they should be strangled to death.

you should watch this video, Keith woods has sources and a more in-depth explanation of China and why in its current form under the ideological influence of deng is a fascist state.

 

[n0rthface]

“Society is defined by the mode of production not what people want”
1. This is Marxist horseshit that’s not even true

society is defined by tribal group conflict not the mode of production.

I’m not going to sit here for 3 hours discussing dialectal materialism with you.
So here’s a few videos discussing it



you have literally not understood what I said. I said nations.
CHINA IS FASCIST
The roots of China’s descent into fascism can be traced back to Deng Xiaoping’s ascent to power and economic reforms that openly rejected central planning in favour of market-based economics. These reforms were instrumental in not only achieving China’s rapid economic growth, but also in ensuring a place on the world stage, through opening up the country to global markets. On the surface, these reforms relinquished state power over the economy; but by allowing private enterprise, they laid the foundations for an economy similar to those found in the fascist countries of the 1930s and 40s.


As shown by China’s treatment of Jack Ma and Alibaba, the Chinese state wields enormous power over businesses to help further cement its grip over the population. A core facet of fascism is the weaponisation of capitalism to help further the authority and interests of the government. As opposed to Soviet-style centrally planned economics, fascists are quite content with the development of private monopolies and the conglomeration of private businesses, enriching their owners – as long as it is in the interest of the government to do so. The tolerance of the Zaibatsu by the Imperial Japanese Militarist Government, and the Nazi’s open support of powerful monopolies in Germany such as IG Farben, Krupp and Rheinmetall, pay testament to this. China’s economy is far closer to this form of fascistic weaponised capitalism, tolerating powerful monopolies such as Huawei as long as they continue to silently pledge fealty, than it is to a market-reformed Soviet Union along the lines of Gorbachev’s perestroika.


CHINAS economy is similar to fascist Italys because it says the same economy system WHICH IS CORPORATISM

“THEY ARE JUST BEING PRAGMATIC”
JFL, cope. They are fundamentally REJECTING the socialist economic system.

Chinese corporatism, as described by Jonathan Unger and Anita Chan in their essay China, Corporatism, and the East Asian Model, is the following:


The political scientist Jean C. Oi coined the term "local state corporatism" to describe China's distinctive type of state-led growth, in which a communist party-state with Leninist roots commits itself to policies which are friendly to the market and to growth.

In its most basic form, corporatism seeks to organize society into associations based on common interests (like business and labor) that work together to achieve harmonious results. The corporatist project is not a socialist one per se, nor on the other hand is it laissez-faire capitalism.

You have also misinterpreted my words, your Marx quote is talking about LABOR. The billionaire capitalists living in China ARENT doing any labor.

Why don’t they just collective right now? China is the second largest economy in the world, surly they have gone through into the capitalist mode of production by now.
(I’ll answer this one for you)
Because socialism is an impractical economic system that would stunt China’s growth, and they have NO REASON to do so as things are running smoothly

Maos government killed 60 million people in the Great Leap Forward
(For the working class amirite )

And you are telling me that’s a success?

Deng purged all the maoists, because mao attacked deng thinking he was a “right wing sympathiser”. Mao at one point ordered a mob of Supporters to attack Dengs son, they broke his legs.
THE PLAN FOR COMMON PROSPERITY


This year, Xi has signalled a heightened commitment to delivering common prosperity, emphasising it is not just an economic objective but core to the party's governing foundation.
Officials say that common prosperity is not egalitarianism.

China's 'common prosperity' push does not mean 'killing the rich', official says​

Those who "get rich first" should help those behind, but hard work should be encouraged,


HOW WILL IT BE ACHIEVED?

Chinese leaders have pledged to use taxation and other income redistribution levers to expand the proportion of middle-income citizens, boost incomes of the poor, "rationally adjust excessive incomes", and ban illegal incomes.

So I was right the common plan for prosperity is mainly taxation and the state encouraging business to act in the interest of the nation.
I never said taxation was unique to Marxism, I’m a fascist not a lolbert I believe in progressive taxes


billionaires being forced to submit to the will of the state is also not unique to “socialist” states.
Germany sent a dozen (German) capitalists to labor camps for exploiting their workers and not acting in the interests of the German people.

in fascist Italy, there’s a famous quote by an industrialist.
“We paid the black shirts to squash the red shirts, now we should pay the red shirts to squash the black shirts”

if there’s one thing we should agree on is that the capitalist class should have the states hands around its throat, if they act against the interests of the nation they should be strangled to death.

you should watch this video, Keith woods has sources and a more in-depth explanation of China and why in its current form under the ideological influence of deng is a fascist state.

@WannabeJock @cloUder

 

[Deleted member 15246]

Based and high IQ, capitalism is trash

 

[reptiles]

ngl i would like if china embraces their culture and identity more, adopts a religion maybe (would be great if its christianity) and goes hard against the jews

China literally supports the jews why are you supporting the kikes of the east?

 

[reptiles]

You are wrong here, Marxism evolved in the late 20th century. used the Marxist dialect of oppressor vs oppressed and the elitism of intellectualism to use for cultural issues, such as race, gender, sexuality etc. The Frankfurt school an academy for Marxist intellectuals collaborated with the CIA and liberals to subvert orthodox Marxism.

Watch this speech to find a move in-depth analysis on cultural Marxism and why Marxists have both lost the battle and won at the same time.

Look at yuri bemoznov any 1 denying the world wide jewish cabal needs to shot.

Although jew isnt the right word there not jews there the synagogue of satan

 

[reptiles]

Based and high IQ, capitalism is trash

You have to be retarded the lack of caiptailism is why our country is a shit hole.

Ancient india was very caiptailic in many aspects today not so much.

What do you think the caste system was? An way of efficently allocating the division of lobour between the people.


It became oppresive later on but originally it was very pro free markets.

 

[reptiles]

China’s embraced nationalism, Class collaboration, right wing social views and corporatism (all big no no’s to Marxists)
China is the country with the most billionaires, least migrants per capita and has loads of privatisation.

makes it more similar to Fascism than anything Marx ever wrote.

How do you think it became a half way decent country facism atleast pays lip service to free trade.

Communism=dictatorship of the proletariat you cannot have communism and indivual rights

 

[Marsiere214]

No wonder very old people in the Balkans love German Nazis, my great grandmother used to tell me how good and honorable the Nazi soldiers were, would treat the women with respect, would play with the kids, would share food, meanwhile the Communist hordes raped her and her sister, its over

Yeah the serboroaches doing what they do best

 

[spark]

No wonder very old people in the Balkans love German Nazis, my great grandmother used to tell me how good and honorable the Nazi soldiers were, would treat the women with respect, would play with the kids, would share food, meanwhile the Communist hordes raped her and her sister, its over

Not the Serbs though

 

[spark]

“Society is defined by the mode of production not what people want”
1. This is Marxist horseshit that’s not even true

society is defined by tribal group conflict not the mode of production.

I’m not going to sit here for 3 hours discussing dialectal materialism with you.
So here’s a few videos discussing it



you have literally not understood what I said. I said nations.
CHINA IS FASCIST
The roots of China’s descent into fascism can be traced back to Deng Xiaoping’s ascent to power and economic reforms that openly rejected central planning in favour of market-based economics. These reforms were instrumental in not only achieving China’s rapid economic growth, but also in ensuring a place on the world stage, through opening up the country to global markets. On the surface, these reforms relinquished state power over the economy; but by allowing private enterprise, they laid the foundations for an economy similar to those found in the fascist countries of the 1930s and 40s.


As shown by China’s treatment of Jack Ma and Alibaba, the Chinese state wields enormous power over businesses to help further cement its grip over the population. A core facet of fascism is the weaponisation of capitalism to help further the authority and interests of the government. As opposed to Soviet-style centrally planned economics, fascists are quite content with the development of private monopolies and the conglomeration of private businesses, enriching their owners – as long as it is in the interest of the government to do so. The tolerance of the Zaibatsu by the Imperial Japanese Militarist Government, and the Nazi’s open support of powerful monopolies in Germany such as IG Farben, Krupp and Rheinmetall, pay testament to this. China’s economy is far closer to this form of fascistic weaponised capitalism, tolerating powerful monopolies such as Huawei as long as they continue to silently pledge fealty, than it is to a market-reformed Soviet Union along the lines of Gorbachev’s perestroika.


CHINAS economy is similar to fascist Italys because it says the same economy system WHICH IS CORPORATISM

“THEY ARE JUST BEING PRAGMATIC”
JFL, cope. They are fundamentally REJECTING the socialist economic system.

Chinese corporatism, as described by Jonathan Unger and Anita Chan in their essay China, Corporatism, and the East Asian Model, is the following:


The political scientist Jean C. Oi coined the term "local state corporatism" to describe China's distinctive type of state-led growth, in which a communist party-state with Leninist roots commits itself to policies which are friendly to the market and to growth.

In its most basic form, corporatism seeks to organize society into associations based on common interests (like business and labor) that work together to achieve harmonious results. The corporatist project is not a socialist one per se, nor on the other hand is it laissez-faire capitalism.

You have also misinterpreted my words, your Marx quote is talking about LABOR. The billionaire capitalists living in China ARENT doing any labor.

Why don’t they just collective right now? China is the second largest economy in the world, surly they have gone through into the capitalist mode of production by now.
(I’ll answer this one for you)
Because socialism is an impractical economic system that would stunt China’s growth, and they have NO REASON to do so as things are running smoothly

Maos government killed 60 million people in the Great Leap Forward
(For the working class amirite )

And you are telling me that’s a success?

Deng purged all the maoists, because mao attacked deng thinking he was a “right wing sympathiser”. Mao at one point ordered a mob of Supporters to attack Dengs son, they broke his legs.
THE PLAN FOR COMMON PROSPERITY


This year, Xi has signalled a heightened commitment to delivering common prosperity, emphasising it is not just an economic objective but core to the party's governing foundation.
Officials say that common prosperity is not egalitarianism.

China's 'common prosperity' push does not mean 'killing the rich', official says​

Those who "get rich first" should help those behind, but hard work should be encouraged,


HOW WILL IT BE ACHIEVED?

Chinese leaders have pledged to use taxation and other income redistribution levers to expand the proportion of middle-income citizens, boost incomes of the poor, "rationally adjust excessive incomes", and ban illegal incomes.

So I was right the common plan for prosperity is mainly taxation and the state encouraging business to act in the interest of the nation.
I never said taxation was unique to Marxism, I’m a fascist not a lolbert I believe in progressive taxes


billionaires being forced to submit to the will of the state is also not unique to “socialist” states.
Germany sent a dozen (German) capitalists to labor camps for exploiting their workers and not acting in the interests of the German people.

in fascist Italy, there’s a famous quote by an industrialist.
“We paid the black shirts to squash the red shirts, now we should pay the red shirts to squash the black shirts”

if there’s one thing we should agree on is that the capitalist class should have the states hands around its throat, if they act against the interests of the nation they should be strangled to death.

you should watch this video, Keith woods has sources and a more in-depth explanation of China and why in its current form under the ideological influence of deng is a fascist state.

retard alert

 

[Deleted member 15246]

You have to be retarded the lack of caiptailism is why our country is a shit hole.

Ancient india was very caiptailic in many aspects today not so much.

What do you think the caste system was? An way of efficently allocating the division of lobour between the people.


It became oppresive later on but originally it was very pro free markets.

Caste system is irrelevant, capitalism is trash.
Private property should be abolished

 

[Deleted member 15246]

You have to be retarded the lack of caiptailism is why our country is a shit hole.

Ancient india was very caiptailic in many aspects today not so much.

What do you think the caste system was? An way of efficently allocating the division of lobour between the people.


It became oppresive later on but originally it was very pro free markets.

Caste system is irrelevant, capitalism is trash.
Private property should be abolished

 

[n0rthface]

retard alert

Mentally ill subhuman alert

 

[n0rthface]

Caste system is irrelevant, capitalism is trash.
Private property should be abolished

>poor Indian street shitter wants to abolish private property

You were saying liberalism, individualism and globalism were good in a thread one time.

retarded subhuman

 

[Uglybrazilian]

“Society is defined by the mode of production not what people want”
1. This is Marxist horseshit that’s not even true

society is defined by tribal group conflict not the mode of production.

I’m not going to sit here for 3 hours discussing dialectal materialism with you.
So here’s a few videos discussing it



you have literally not understood what I said. I said nations.
CHINA IS FASCIST
The roots of China’s descent into fascism can be traced back to Deng Xiaoping’s ascent to power and economic reforms that openly rejected central planning in favour of market-based economics. These reforms were instrumental in not only achieving China’s rapid economic growth, but also in ensuring a place on the world stage, through opening up the country to global markets. On the surface, these reforms relinquished state power over the economy; but by allowing private enterprise, they laid the foundations for an economy similar to those found in the fascist countries of the 1930s and 40s.


As shown by China’s treatment of Jack Ma and Alibaba, the Chinese state wields enormous power over businesses to help further cement its grip over the population. A core facet of fascism is the weaponisation of capitalism to help further the authority and interests of the government. As opposed to Soviet-style centrally planned economics, fascists are quite content with the development of private monopolies and the conglomeration of private businesses, enriching their owners – as long as it is in the interest of the government to do so. The tolerance of the Zaibatsu by the Imperial Japanese Militarist Government, and the Nazi’s open support of powerful monopolies in Germany such as IG Farben, Krupp and Rheinmetall, pay testament to this. China’s economy is far closer to this form of fascistic weaponised capitalism, tolerating powerful monopolies such as Huawei as long as they continue to silently pledge fealty, than it is to a market-reformed Soviet Union along the lines of Gorbachev’s perestroika.


CHINAS economy is similar to fascist Italys because it says the same economy system WHICH IS CORPORATISM

“THEY ARE JUST BEING PRAGMATIC”
JFL, cope. They are fundamentally REJECTING the socialist economic system.

Chinese corporatism, as described by Jonathan Unger and Anita Chan in their essay China, Corporatism, and the East Asian Model, is the following:


The political scientist Jean C. Oi coined the term "local state corporatism" to describe China's distinctive type of state-led growth, in which a communist party-state with Leninist roots commits itself to policies which are friendly to the market and to growth.

In its most basic form, corporatism seeks to organize society into associations based on common interests (like business and labor) that work together to achieve harmonious results. The corporatist project is not a socialist one per se, nor on the other hand is it laissez-faire capitalism.

You have also misinterpreted my words, your Marx quote is talking about LABOR. The billionaire capitalists living in China ARENT doing any labor.

Why don’t they just collective right now? China is the second largest economy in the world, surly they have gone through into the capitalist mode of production by now.
(I’ll answer this one for you)
Because socialism is an impractical economic system that would stunt China’s growth, and they have NO REASON to do so as things are running smoothly

Maos government killed 60 million people in the Great Leap Forward
(For the working class amirite )

And you are telling me that’s a success?

Deng purged all the maoists, because mao attacked deng thinking he was a “right wing sympathiser”. Mao at one point ordered a mob of Supporters to attack Dengs son, they broke his legs.
THE PLAN FOR COMMON PROSPERITY


This year, Xi has signalled a heightened commitment to delivering common prosperity, emphasising it is not just an economic objective but core to the party's governing foundation.
Officials say that common prosperity is not egalitarianism.

China's 'common prosperity' push does not mean 'killing the rich', official says​

Those who "get rich first" should help those behind, but hard work should be encouraged,


HOW WILL IT BE ACHIEVED?

Chinese leaders have pledged to use taxation and other income redistribution levers to expand the proportion of middle-income citizens, boost incomes of the poor, "rationally adjust excessive incomes", and ban illegal incomes.

So I was right the common plan for prosperity is mainly taxation and the state encouraging business to act in the interest of the nation.
I never said taxation was unique to Marxism, I’m a fascist not a lolbert I believe in progressive taxes


billionaires being forced to submit to the will of the state is also not unique to “socialist” states.
Germany sent a dozen (German) capitalists to labor camps for exploiting their workers and not acting in the interests of the German people.

in fascist Italy, there’s a famous quote by an industrialist.
“We paid the black shirts to squash the red shirts, now we should pay the red shirts to squash the black shirts”

if there’s one thing we should agree on is that the capitalist class should have the states hands around its throat, if they act against the interests of the nation they should be strangled to death.

you should watch this video, Keith woods has sources and a more in-depth explanation of China and why in its current form under the ideological influence of deng is a fascist state.

"
1. This is Marxist horseshit that’s not even true

society is defined by tribal group conflict not the mode of production.

I’m not going to sit here for 3 hours discussing dialectal materialism with you.
So here’s a few videos discussing it
"

No, society is defined by its mode of production not tribal group conflict JFL thats the worse theory I have ever heard in my life. Simply a lie.


"CHINA IS FASCIST"

No, its not. I literally quoted Marx(and he has many quotes saying the same) saying that in order for a society to build communism, it would need to pass throught a capitalism phase, since capitalism is needed to develop the means of production to later build communism. A market economy DOES NOT means China abandoned Marxism, thats why they praise Marx in his birthday and call him the "light of humanity". In fact, they are the real marxists, because they are following exactly what Marx have said.


"
The political scientist Jean C. Oi coined the term "local state corporatism" to describe China's distinctive type of state-led growth, in which a communist party-state with Leninist roots commits itself to policies which are friendly to the market and to growth.

In its most basic form, corporatism seeks to organize society into associations based on common interests (like business and labor) that work together to achieve harmonious results. The corporatist project is not a socialist one per se, nor on the other hand is it laissez-faire capitalism."
"
First, it does not make sense to call China's system "corporatism" because the chinese system is pretty much UNIQUE to China, there was never an equal system anywhere in the world. Second, it DOES NOT MATTER for the purpose of the debate what China really does on a economical level, because socialism is simply a mode of production which is NOT defined my all things being state owned, cant you fuckin read you negro? I just quoted for you MARX LITERALLY SAYING that there would be inequality and a market on the first stages of a socialist society. SOCIALISM DOES NOT MEAN COLLECTIVIZING EVERYTHING. Please read what I write and also inform yourself about Marx. You are insanely critical to someone you have never read about. Why?


"
Maos government killed 60 million people in the Great Leap Forward
(For the working class amirite )

And you are telling me that’s a success?
"

Thats just a simple and plain lie. 60milliion would be 10% of the chinese population by that time, and the population actually grew during mao's government. How did the west get to such numbers? how is it possible that the living standards during his government actually got better while 10% of the population died? wrong again




"

China's 'common prosperity' push does not mean 'killing the rich', official says​

Those who "get rich first" should help those behind, but hard work should be encouraged,


HOW WILL IT BE ACHIEVED?

Chinese leaders have pledged to use taxation and other income redistribution levers to expand the proportion of middle-income citizens, boost incomes of the poor, "rationally adjust excessive incomes", and ban illegal incomes.

So I was right the common plan for prosperity is mainly taxation and the state encouraging business to act in the interest of the nation.
I never said taxation was unique to Marxism, I’m a fascist not a lolbert I believe in progressive taxes


billionaires being forced to submit to the will of the state is also not unique to “socialist” states.
Germany sent a dozen (German) capitalists to labor camps for exploiting their workers and not acting in the interests of the German people.
"

Nigga, do you have a problem or what? You post something that pretty much dismisses what you say and the you claim you were right, LOOOLOLOOOLLL

The article clearly states that the common prosperity plan is more than just taxes for the rich, contrary to what you said(you literally said it was just taxes for the rich). I have no more to add. I dont know how can you read something that goes against what you are saying and then claim that you were right all the time. And yeah, forcing billionaires to submit is INDEED a socialist thing, at least it has been thourghout history. Remember that Nazi Germany was literally socialist, they were just not marxist(which is why they were wrong tbh), and still Hitler favoured many capitalists because he had no intention to one day reach a communist mode of production, which is the fundamental difference between marxism(China) and fascism(nazis etc).

 

[Uglybrazilian]

Yes, Christianity and other Semitic religions are influences on progressivism and Marxism.

yes I agree it’s an anti-orthodox Marxism view, but it’s happened. It’s mainly to the Frankfurt school and CIA subverting Marxism/workers movements during the Cold War.

And yes Marx and Engels would he disgusted if they saw what the majority of “Marxist” today stood for.

Crazy shit I read here jfl

can you tell me how the fuck is christianity an influence for Marx? when did he quote christian books? when did he used any christian philosophy to justify his ideas? no...christianity and marx's views on society developed independently, and that happens all the time. Marx was NOT influenced by christianity in any way. Having a opressor x opressed view is nothing but a trait that many philosophical schools may develop. But conservatives hate Marx so it has to be Marx's fault anyways, as if the class struggle and historical materialism are not true.


"yes I agree it’s an anti-orthodox Marxism view, but it’s happened. It’s mainly to the Frankfurt school and CIA subverting Marxism/workers movements during the Cold War."

thats probably not true, and also it does not matter because at the end marxism is defined by its intelectual tradition as I have said before.

 

[reptiles]

Caste system is irrelevant, capitalism is trash.
Private property should be abolished

There goes your porn hub, play station lap top, credit card, debit card and internet access.

 

[n0rthface]

Between 1958 and 1962, a war raged between the peasants and the state; it was a period when a third of all homes in China were destroyed to produce fertiliser and when the nation descended into famine and starvation, Mr Dikötter said.

His book, Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was, remarkably, carefully catalogued in Public Security Bureau reports, which featured among the provincial archives he studied. In them, he found that the members of the rural farming communities were seen by the Party merely as "digits", or a faceless workforce. For those who committed any acts of disobedience, however minor, the punishments were huge.

“NO ITS A CAPITALIST LIE, EVEN THOUGH ITS IN THE OFFICIAL PARTIES ARCHIVES”

JFL

@WannabeJock
I understand now why Mussolini said
“don’t argue with the enemy, strike them down”

 

[n0rthface]

Crazy shit I read here jfl

can you tell me how the fuck is christianity an influence for Marx? when did he quote christian books? when did he used any christian philosophy to justify his ideas? no...christianity and marx's views on society developed independently, and that happens all the time. Marx was NOT influenced by christianity in any way. Having a opressor x opressed view is nothing but a trait that many philosophical schools may develop. But conservatives hate Marx so it has to be Marx's fault anyways, as if the class struggle and historical materialism are not true.


"yes I agree it’s an anti-orthodox Marxism view, but it’s happened. It’s mainly to the Frankfurt school and CIA subverting Marxism/workers movements during the Cold War."

thats probably not true, and also it does not matter because at the end marxism is defined by its intelectual tradition as I have said before.

>that’s propably not true
You’re historically illiterate then (like all Marxists)

when the Frankfurt School academics fled Germany, they relocated their home institution to Columbia University. In December 1942, Marcuse joined the Office of War Information, FDR’s domestic and foreign propaganda agency. (For more on OWI, see here.) A few months later, he transferred to OSS (the predecessor of CIA), worked there until 1945, and then transferred to State. After leaving State in 1951, he received a Rockefeller Foundation grant (and even CIA has admitted that, at the time, the Rockefeller Foundation was closely tied to CIA) to study Soviet Marxism, and eventually wrote a book on the subject, which “broke the taboo in his circles against speaking critically of the USSR and Soviet communism”, and which pointed to potential ‘liberalizing trends’ that “eventually materialized … under Gorbachev”, soon before Gorbachev’s government abolished the USSR. Then he developed the New Left line on the proletariat.

Western intellectuals seeing the failures of the Soviet Union and China then switched to cultural liberation rather than that of the economic.

 

[n0rthface]

Crazy shit I read here jfl

can you tell me how the fuck is christianity an influence for Marx? when did he quote christian books? when did he used any christian philosophy to justify his ideas? no...christianity and marx's views on society developed independently, and that happens all the time. Marx was NOT influenced by christianity in any way. Having a opressor x opressed view is nothing but a trait that many philosophical schools may develop. But conservatives hate Marx so it has to be Marx's fault anyways, as if the class struggle and historical materialism are not true.


"yes I agree it’s an anti-orthodox Marxism view, but it’s happened. It’s mainly to the Frankfurt school and CIA subverting Marxism/workers movements during the Cold War."

thats probably not true, and also it does not matter because at the end marxism is defined by its intelectual tradition as I have said before.

>how did Christianity’s slave morality effect Marx’s and Engels slave morality

 

[n0rthface]

“And yeah, forcing billionaires to submit is INDEED a socialist thing”

billionaires are forced to submit to the interests of the state in western societies, you are have no idea what your talking about.

there is no way anyone can earn a billion by working. To be a billionaire, you need to be money farming- getting interest on capital you own or being paid royalties on ideas you own- nobody gets a billion from the “sweat of their brow”.

“SOCIALISM IS WHEN YOU PROFIT OFF THE WORKERS LABOR”

“eh actually it’s just being pragmatic, being pragmatic is when you completely reject the socialist economy in favour of a corporatist one”

Holy shit

you say I’ve contradicted myself, YET you contradict yourself in the same sentence

@cloUder @AlexAP @gamma @TeraCope54

 

[Deleted member 15338]

Between 1958 and 1962, a war raged between the peasants and the state; it was a period when a third of all homes in China were destroyed to produce fertiliser and when the nation descended into famine and starvation, Mr Dikötter said.

His book, Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was, remarkably, carefully catalogued in Public Security Bureau reports, which featured among the provincial archives he studied. In them, he found that the members of the rural farming communities were seen by the Party merely as "digits", or a faceless workforce. For those who committed any acts of disobedience, however minor, the punishments were huge.

“NO ITS A CAPITALIST LIE, EVEN THOUGH ITS IN THE OFFICIAL PARTIES ARCHIVES”
View attachment 1382864

JFL

@WannabeJock
I understand now why Mussolini said
“don’t argue with the enemy, strike them down”

I thought that quote is low iq btw in reality it is a very high iq quote jfl
Muhhh arguements debates

 

[BearBoy]

ngl i would like if china embraces their culture and identity more, adopts a religion maybe (would be great if its christianity) and goes hard against the jews

imagine if they all became muslims damn

 

[Deleted member 15246]

There goes your porn hub, play station lap top, credit card, debit card and internet access.

Didn't needed it anyway, it in no way improved my life.

 

[Deleted member 15246]

>poor Indian street shitter wants to abolish private property

You were saying liberalism, individualism and globalism were good in a thread one time.

retarded subhuman

Liberalism, individualism, globalism has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism

 

[Uglybrazilian]

>that’s propably not true
You’re historically illiterate then (like all Marxists)

when the Frankfurt School academics fled Germany, they relocated their home institution to Columbia University. In December 1942, Marcuse joined the Office of War Information, FDR’s domestic and foreign propaganda agency. (For more on OWI, see here.) A few months later, he transferred to OSS (the predecessor of CIA), worked there until 1945, and then transferred to State. After leaving State in 1951, he received a Rockefeller Foundation grant (and even CIA has admitted that, at the time, the Rockefeller Foundation was closely tied to CIA) to study Soviet Marxism, and eventually wrote a book on the subject, which “broke the taboo in his circles against speaking critically of the USSR and Soviet communism”, and which pointed to potential ‘liberalizing trends’ that “eventually materialized … under Gorbachev”, soon before Gorbachev’s government abolished the USSR. Then he developed the New Left line on the proletariat.

Western intellectuals seeing the failures of the Soviet Union and China then switched to cultural liberation rather than that of the economic.

Can you please put the sources of your claims? From historically reliable sources instead of something like stormfront please.

 

[Uglybrazilian]

>how did Christianity’s slave morality effect Marx’s and Engels slave morality
View attachment 1382876

You are a crazy person
"Slave morality"(just a nickname for civilization) developed independently in many different places with no connection with each other throught history

So you dont really need to be influenced by christianity to develop a slave morality(basically objectively better morality). Thats nonsense.

 

[Uglybrazilian]

“And yeah, forcing billionaires to submit is INDEED a socialist thing”

billionaires are forced to submit to the interests of the state in western societies, you are have no idea what your talking about.

there is no way anyone can earn a billion by working. To be a billionaire, you need to be money farming- getting interest on capital you own or being paid royalties on ideas you own- nobody gets a billion from the “sweat of their brow”.

“SOCIALISM IS WHEN YOU PROFIT OFF THE WORKERS LABOR”

“eh actually it’s just being pragmatic, being pragmatic is when you completely reject the socialist economy in favour of a corporatist one”

Holy shit

you say I’ve contradicted myself, YET you contradict yourself in the same sentence

@cloUder @AlexAP @gamma @TeraCope54

In western societies its the government who submit to the billionaires not the other way around. Plus its not a contradiction to be pragmathic and socialist or whatever because socialism is a mode of production, not a philosophy. Socialism has no economic principles but the means of production being in the hands of the people, which does not means colletivizing everything and blablablá I've already quoted Marx saying this for you and still you ignore it so Im tired of arguing

 

[Amexmaxx]

nuclear power may destroy the whole world.

Nuclear weapons are a scam the elites use to scare the plebs. They don’t exist.