Coceancig CLAIMS Bollards don't even work in CHILDREN

[spark]

This goes against everything I've read on the net:

Is he purposefully lying to me?

@Sergio-OMS

 

[spark]

Notice how he turned it into an adult case scenario the bastard suspected me to eventually go there (correctly so) and put me on ignore once I posted this adult protraction case:

https://annual-session.aaoinfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/SUN_AM_Perez-Varela-Juan-Carlos_Treatment-of-Adult-Skeletal-Class-III_Camouflage-vs-Orthognathic-Surgery_Is-There-Another-Alternative.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3gTNlyptOYYNGlnZKljdLx3VAPYxgIO_2stK1tcB2SnemtAwy8rrafwmM

 

[randomvanish]

elaborate this ignorate fellow please op

 

[spark]

elaborate this ignorate fellow please op

Bollard plates = bone anchored protraction device used to fix class III (something like a better version of the facemask). Just like the facemask used virtually only in kids. These days however adults experiment with it after weakening the maxillary sutures with MSE. There are some results when used with MSE but it's a fairly new method.
Coceancig = a top Australian maxfac surgeon

 

[randomvanish]

Bollard plates = bone anchored protraction device used to fix class III (something like a better version of the facemask). Just like the facemask used virtually only in kids. These days however adults experiment with it after weakening the maxillary sutures with MSE. There are some results when used with MSE but it's a fairly new method.
Coceancig = a top Australian maxfac surgeon

i thought he's a really good person. strange

 

[Mongrelcel]

Lots of surgeons tell you flat out "No it cant be done" if you ask something that they do.

Why do you think normies get butchered often so much? Because they ask a doctor, and he instead saying "your nose isnt too big, its your jaw that is recessed, you need a maxillofacial surgeon" performs a rhino instead. Or some fillers.

 

[spark]

i thought he's a really good person. strange

I don't think he is bad. He just hates Mike Mew and functional appliances period. I am pretty sure a lot of people bring them up. Most surgeons are extremely skeptical. He always says "surgery is the only solution".

 

[randomvanish]

He always says "surgery is the only solution".

well mostly that is the only way. i hate copers too. i mean why waste time with trying something "new" and suspicious while you can have certain solution.
also mewing, come on

 

[Cardiologyscribe]

Luke Bruce

 

[spark]

well mostly that is the only way. i hate copers too. i mean why waste time with trying something "new" and suspicious while you can have certain solution.
also mewing, come on

Obviously Mewing doesn't work (at least not in adults) but I still view Mike positively as a whole. Also since le fort can't be done on kids this seems like a great solution at least they don't grow up deformed and bullied waiting to turn adult to get the surgery. Bollards are proven to work in kids and there are a lot of studies confirming this.

 

[spark]

Luke Bruce

Obv a totally fake name

 

[Sergio-OMS]

View attachment 1134094

This goes against everything I've read on the net:
View attachment 1134300View attachment 1134301

Is he purposefully lying to me?

@Sergio-OMS

No, he is not lying, he just has a different opinion. I agree that surgery, as a rule of thumb, is the best solution, the most versatile and the one with more predictable results

 

[noprogressno]

what he is saying could have some truth in it though,even for children.Bollard plates probably bring the maxilla forwards and the mandible backwards to a certain degree I think.Because newtons basic law of force,if you are pulling maxilla forwards the force of the elastic also pulls the mandible backwards but whether that tension brings the mandible backwards or it doesn't affect the mandible I have no idea...But if bollard plates cause real skeletal protraction in children maybe combining it with another type of protraction facemask like the BOW or crane will eliminate the mandible retraction but I am fairly sure something like this has never been tried on any children(or any adult).It could work though(I mean it could work on children I don't know about adults...)

 

[spark]

No, he is not lying, he just has a different opinion. I agree that surgery, as a rule of thumb, is the best solution, the most versatile and the one with more predictable results

Is this a matter of opinion when all studies point towards the fact it works? I mean even you said it works and that your daughter has them (if I am not mistaken). In children (since that was the premise of the argument) it seems to be like the only solution right? Le Fort can only be done on adults right? It's weird Paul would say that when he has stressed many times before early intervention is important for the mental well being of a child.

Also where exactly is the new bone apposition taking place? These studies vaguely said "circummaxillary and circumzygomatic sutures" that means in all of them?

 

[spark]

what he is saying could have some truth in it though,even for children.Bollard plates probably bring the maxilla forwards and the mandible backwards to a certain degree I think.Because newtons basic law of force,if you are pulling maxilla forwards the force of the elastic also pulls the mandible backwards but whether that tension brings the mandible backwards or it doesn't affect the mandible I have no idea...But if bollard plates cause real skeletal protraction in children maybe combining it with another type of protraction facemask like the BOW or crane will eliminate the mandible retraction but I am fairly sure something like this has never been tried on any children(or any adult).It could work though(I mean it could work on children I don't know about adults...)

Of course it is pushing the mandible backward (and likely slowing down the growth) nobody is disputing that. Paul however said that bollards do not cause maxillary protraction not even in children. That is a flat out lie.

 

[bysontallou]

Spark are you trying to get BAMP as an adult?

 

[spark]

Spark are you trying to get BAMP as an adult?

Thinking about it whether it's a viable option or not.

 

[bysontallou]

Thinking about it whether it's a viable option or not.

Same. Lmk if you go through with it.

 

[noprogressno]

Of course it is pushing the mandible backward (and likely slowing down the growth) nobody is disputing that. Paul however said that bollards do not cause maxillary protraction not even in children. That is a flat out lie.

Unfortunately this is the case with %99 of jaw surgeons and orthodontists.Orthotropists tend to refuse to say a case needs jaw surgery just because they believe it can be corrected with non surgical ways and they also refuse to give MSE to people who need it because they think it is somehow very dangerous to split the suture.Jaw surgeons refuse to accept that there are other types of treatments that might work for some patients and only think that jaw surgery is the only way(Some of jaw surgeons refuse that MSE works in adults and advise for SARPE surgery instead but some people can potentially skip 1 surgery if MSE is suitable for them...).Some of them are the other way around and do not accept any patients unless there is an extereme case of malloclusion and send off patients for camouflage treatment instead.Traditional orthodontists tend to refuse all of them all together and tend to extract teeth when its unnecessary just because they believe that extraction does not change the facial profile and airway.Its just the way this is.Personally I wouldn't throw away a treatment type away just because 1 orthodontist(or 1 surgeon) said it does not work.If there are other doctors or orthodontists who believes that it does work,chances are it does actually work(and support those claims with photos or x-rays etc...).But I don't know about bollard plates because I haven't heard of anyone who uses bollard plates on adults.But I think just because no one has tried it before it does not mean it will not work on an adult,it just means that no one has tried it before because there is a high possibility that it won't work.But still that does not mean it will not work...

 

[Deleted member 15854]

damn nigga thats crazy

 

[Deleted member 18361]

damn nigga thats crazy

Please dont bump old threads