Declining genes & the potential end of "modern" society: A short primer on dysgenics and the inevitable Malthusian decline

a) iq isn't real
b) these are mostly caused by the environment, not genetics, and you are misframing it
 
a) iq isn't real
b) these are mostly caused by the environment, not genetics, and you are misframing it
I've already answered these incorrect statements, broadly. I realize you guys don't read what I write, so there is no point me restating stuff.
 
Just read a bit more and you are unironically citing Lynn LMFAO ain't no wayy
 
I've already answered these incorrect statements, broadly. I realize you guys don't read what I write, so there is no point me restating stuff.
There's not point reading what you write because.it would just be a waste of my time because most of it is retatded
 
There's not point reading what you write because.it would just be a waste of my time because most of it is retatded
Other users have done exactly what you just did:
If you don't like the sources, then refute them in good faith.
You all proceed to cast ad hominem attacks and make 0 attempt to refute any of my arguments.
You are pathetic. Then you proceed to ghost, when I refute your baseless ad hominem attacks, as described in the above linked exchange.

On your reliance on ad hominem attacks, instead of substantiating your arguments.
Association between IQ and genetics.

GWAS or genome wide association studies evidence frequencies of genes associated with intelligencem decreasing generationally among native populations:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1612113114

It makes me wanted to rely on verbal ad hominem attacks against all of you.
I just want someone to discuss these topics in good faith. That is clearly beyond this forum, which I thought valued free speech.
 
Last edited:
Other users have done exactly what you just did:
You all proceed to cast ad hominem attacks and make 0 attempt to refute any of my arguments.
You are pathetic. Then you proceed to ghost, when I refute your baseless ad hominem attacks, as described in the above linked exchange.

On your reliance on ad hominem attacks, instead of substantiating your arguments.
Association between IQ and genetics.

GWAS or genome wide association studies evidence frequencies of genes associated with intelligencem decreasing generationally among native populations:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1612113114
There is nothing wrong with context appropriate ad hominems. It is absolutely fair to attack the person if it is warranted. Crying about muh fallacies 24/7 Is the biggest midwit trait, genuine intelligent people understand they are the building blocks of good discourse
 
There is nothing wrong with context appropriate ad hominems. It is absolutely fair to attack the person if it is warranted.
It not fair if it isn't warranted because you make 0 effort substantiate your opinion which is wrong.
Crying about muh fallacies 24/7 Is the biggest midwit trait, genuine intelligent people understand they are the building blocks of good discourse
I have an entire thread refuting yours and others' moronic, one liner quips, which you all spout in bad faith.
You speak of "building blocks of good discourse" even though all you offer are ad hominem attacks while I offer study after study. Summary after summary, with clear enough logic supporting my overall contention of Malthusian decline.
Do you have any self awareness at all? Clearly you have 0. It's impossible to reconcile your support for "good discourse" with your moronic actions (ad hominem attacks and evident retardation). You are a hypocrite.

As I've already said, all I want is a discussion in good faith. If you can't manage that then leave this thread.
 
Last edited:
This dysgenic population has for over 100 year bred at a rate far beyond those who preference resource accumulation and delayed breeding (populations that typically possess a higher iq and health, which are correlated, and who, pre-industrial revolution, were the population who bred the most, as it was their high iq and health that enabled them to cope well with harsh pre-industrial selection pressures, compared to low iq/sick people who died at higher rates).
You can also argue that delayed breeding is inherently dysgenic because it results in higher rates of age-related mutations (autism, for example).
 
  • +1
Reactions: sub6manletnozygos
It not fair if it isn't warranted because you make 0 effort substantiate your opinion which is wrong.

I have an entire thread refuting yours and others' moronic, one liner quips, which you all spout in bad faith.
You speak of "building blocks of good discourse" even though all you offer are ad hominem attacks while I offer study after study. Summary after summary, with clear enough logic supporting my overall contention of Malthusian decline.
Do you have any self awareness at all? Clearly you have 0.
But your studies are all worthless statistics spam, made by people with agendas. Do you realise how easy it is to get any conclusion you want from these types of studies? Its far from objective. All they have to do is use tricky maths and make the method involved and complex and then they know almost no one will have the time or spend the effort to go through and find the problems so they can pass it off as objective knowledge unchallenged. (But when someone does they get fucking rolled)

It doesn't help that the fundamental building block of any of these psychometric studies is iq, which doesn't even exist. Iq is just a standardised g. g is just a correlation between scores on a battery of tests. That's all it fucking is - a correlation. There is no reason to connect it to human intelligence except dogmatically.

And about me not debunking your studies. This is entirely unreasonable to expect in forum discourse. I could link like 20 studies right now that agree with my point of view, but expecting you to read though hours of bullshit and follow complex statistics is extremely retatded and you should feel bad for being dumb enough to expect me to do this
 
You can also argue that delayed breeding is inherently dysgenic because it results in higher rates of age-related mutations (autism, for example).
Yes, it causes noticeable rates of mutational load. Me being one example (my mother was 44 and my father in his 60s when I was conceived).
 
One marker is not sufficient to prove or disprove the overall contention that genetics are associated with intelligence, especially when the presence of certain genes are being found with less frequency or speculated as activating at different times, in certain populations, with better or worse life outcomes. Small genetic effects at different developmental stages may have large consequences on mental function. I guess this points against both of our conflicting contentions, as it obviously makes specific calculation very difficult, given current technology.

They are not mystery genes. They are particular genes such as the 22 genes accounting for about 5% of the differences in intelligence scores.

While this does not seem like much, as genome sequencing and databases improve further associations will be found.
This is not because there is no correlation but because intelligence is a highly polygenic trait, necessitating much larger sample sizes to reliably identify contributing genes. Most of the GWAS I mentioned have ~70k sizes. Eventually there will be 1+ billion plus sample sized studies to calculate the reliability.

Also, SNP heritability reported in recent GWAS has ranged between >50% to 20%.

Finally, and MOST pressingly, the association is very persuasive given the adulthood heritability of IQ as being around 0.8. I genuinely don't understand your contention given this statistic, unless you can explain why the calculation is wrong.

R6LTtUn.png
Population GWAS studies are confounded by non-genetic effects, actual recent (2020, 2022) *unconfounded* with-family GWAS studies have heritability estimates of 4%-17%, of real genetic causality. LOL the 'improvements" on power and samples disproved older, larger estimates.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-022-01062-7
Estimates from genome-wide association studies (GWAS) of unrelated individuals capture effects of inherited variation (direct effects), demography (population stratification, assortative mating) and relatives (indirect genetic effects). Family-based GWAS designs can control for demographic and indirect genetic effects, but large-scale family datasets have been lacking. We combined data from 178,086 siblings from 19 cohorts to generate population (between-family) and within-sibship (within-family) GWAS estimates for 25 phenotypes. Within-sibship GWAS estimates were smaller than population estimates for height, educational attainment, age at first birth, number of children, cognitive ability, depressive symptoms and smoking.

"Our concern is about where all this will lead. Behavior is influenced by genotype and environment. The environment provided by a parent is influenced by the parent's (not to mention the child's) genotype, and the parent's rearing environment, which had its own tangle of reciprocal genetic and environmental influences. Everything is intercorrelated; every-thing interacts. Where does this leave the columns of "model-fitting heritabilities," meticulously computed to two decimal places and starred for statistical significance on the basis of path models that cannot hope to keep pace with reciprocal causal structures described in the target article?


Twin studies are false and cant prove genetic causality: https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...art-iq-study/51AB0D7F19B868D949879046F66C75FE
In 1990, Thomas J. Bouchard Jr. and colleagues published the widely cited 1990 “Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart” (MISTRA) Science IQ study. To arrive at the conclusion that “IQ is strongly affected by genetic factors,” Bouchard and colleagues omitted their control group reared-apart dizygotic twin (DZA) IQ score correlations. Near-full-sample correlations published after the study’s 2000 end point show that the reared-apart monozygotic twin (MZA) and DZA group IQ correlations did not differ at a statistically significant level, suggesting that the study failed the first step in determining that IQ scores are influenced by heredity. After bypassing the model-fitting technique they used in most non-IQ MISTRA studies, the researchers assumed that the MZA group IQ score correlation alone “directly estimates heritability.”

 
  • +1
Reactions: Deleted member 29796 and mogger123
But your studies are all worthless statistics spam, made by people with agendas. Do you realise how easy it is to get any conclusion you want from these types of studies? Its far from objective. All they have to do is use tricky maths and make the method involved and complex and then they know almost no one will have the time or spend the effort to go through and find the problems so they can pass it off as objective knowledge unchallenged. (But when someone does they get fucking rolled)

It doesn't help that the fundamental building block of any of these psychometric studies is iq, which doesn't even exist. Iq is just a standardised g. g is just a correlation between scores on a battery of tests. That's all it fucking is - a correlation. There is no reason to connect it to human intelligence except dogmatically.

And about me not debunking your studies. This is entirely unreasonable to expect in forum discourse. I could link like 20 studies right now that agree with my point of view, but expecting you to read though hours of bullshit and follow complex statistics is extremely retatded and you should feel bad for being dumb enough to expect me to do this

>But your studies are all worthless statistics spam, made by people with agendas.
So you don't think its worth refuting with logic? If you opinion is so apparent then why can't you easily prove it?

>Do you realise how easy it is to get any conclusion you want from these types of studies?
>tricky maths
I can say the exact same thing about the converse opinion. The difference is I at least show some studies and make an argument, expecting some discussion in good faith of which many in this thread and other threads completely fail.

>(But when someone does they get fucking rolled)
Can you show me Dutton and Lynn, getting intellectually "rolled?

>It doesn't help that the fundamental building block of any of these psychometric studies is iq, which doesn't even exist. Iq is just a standardised g. g is just a correlation between scores on a battery of tests
.

Look I've already talked about iq tests, and given my opinion on them in this thread and others. However, how about other indicators GWAS life outcomes described above? Or any of the generalized IQ to life outcome meta studies I showed you above?
Or you do you simply ignore these studies if they don't fit YOUR agenda (everyones equal, society is ok, everything is sunshine and roses, and there is definitely no reasons for increasingly authoritarian measures, which definitely isn't a passive acknowledgement of an impending Malthusian decline and a desperate attempt to insulate elites from impending civil unrest).

>And about me not debunking your studies. This is entirely unreasonable to expect in forum discourse. I could link like 20 studies right now that agree with my point of view. I'd love for you do to that, please. Especially if you can formulate some sort of cohesive argument as I have done. I would really appreciate that, thanks!

>but expecting you to read though hours of bullshit and follow complex statistics is extremely retatded and you should feel bad for being dumb enough to expect me to do this
I don't feel bad. I live with my mother, have free time and enjoy studying this topic. Any counter-argument and therein, further development of my understanding would be greatly appreciated! I would prefer that than the intellectually drivel (ad hominem attacks) you and others have provided.

I don't expect all to read my thread nor do I expect 1000 word+ essays (however, if there is a diamond in the rough expressing the opposite, it would be nice to read! You could even just level a counter-argument of an opposing opinion you like!).

All I expect is something better than "your retarded lmao" "shit source lmao" "low quality lmao" which is the substance of what you and others have provided. Again, I can choose NOT to argue in bad faith, like that, but fuck do I sometimes feel compelled to do so, in relation to some of the drivel some of you dogs write.
 
Estimates of heritability cluster strongly within functional domains, and across all traits the reported heritability is 49%. For a majority (69%) of traits, the observed twin correlations are consistent with a simple and parsimonious model where twin resemblance is solely due to additive genetic variation. The data are inconsistent with substantial influences from shared environment or non-additive genetic variation. This study provides the most comprehensive analysis of the causes of individual differences in human traits thus far and will guide future gene-mapping efforts. All the results can be visualized using the MaTCH webtool.
OP quoted the misleading, made-up "0.80" estimate for "reared apart twins" who weren't actually reared apart. Modern heritability estimates based on twin studies = 0.5 for behavioural traits (and ofc heritability doesnt equal genetic) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25985137/

In 1990, Thomas J. Bouchard Jr. and colleagues published the widely cited 1990 “Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart” (MISTRA) Science IQ study. To arrive at the conclusion that “IQ is strongly affected by genetic factors,” Bouchard and colleagues omitted their control group reared-apart dizygotic twin (DZA) IQ score correlations. Near-full-sample correlations published after the study’s 2000 end point show that the reared-apart monozygotic twin (MZA) and DZA group IQ correlations did not differ at a statistically significant level, suggesting that the study failed the first step in determining that IQ scores are influenced by heredity.

No DZA results of any kind were reported in the 1990 Science article, due to what Bouchard and colleagues said were “space limitations" and the smaller size of theDZA sample (30 sets).” They believed that the “smaller”DZA sample justified their decision to “focus on the MZAdata (56 sets)”

NEpyPj7.png
 
R6LTtUn.png
Population GWAS studies are confounded by non-genetic effects, actual recent (2020, 2022) *unconfounded* with-family GWAS studies have heritability estimates of 4%-17%, of real genetic causality. LOL the 'improvements" on power and samples disproved older, larger estimates.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-022-01062-7





Twin studies are false and cant prove genetic causality: https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...art-iq-study/51AB0D7F19B868D949879046F66C75FE



>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-022-01062-7
That study was interesting. I will read it later. Thanks for that. It at least as a bigger size nearly 200k v ~70 in the previous studies I listed, with low correlation estimates.

>LOL the 'improvements" on power and samples disproved older, larger estimates.
All I can say is restate what I've said.
As genome sequencing and databases improve further associations will be found.

Polygenic traits traits necessitate much larger sample sizes to reliably identify contributing genes. Even with an influence between 4%-50%, and the difference between the 70k and ~200k sample size, what do you think will happen in the future 1+ billion plus sample sized studies to calculate the correlations, and improve algorithms, and technology?
 
OP quoted the misleading, made-up "0.80" estimate for "reared apart twins" who weren't actually reared apart. Modern heritability estimates based on twin studies = 0.5 for behavioural traits (and ofc heritability doesnt equal genetic) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25985137/





NEpyPj7.png
Thanks for providing me with this study I will look into it, but my concerns written in the immediately above comment, still stand.

Additionally, there are other life outcome studies/correlates described above.

Finally, the 0.5 correlate still doesn't disprove what I'm saying nor does it prove your contention.
 
Last edited:
All I can say is restate what I've said.
As genome sequencing and databases improve further associations will be found.

Polygenic traits traits necessitate much larger sample sizes to reliably identify contributing genes. Even with an influence between 4%-50%, and the difference between the 70k and ~200k sample size, what do you think will happen in the future 1+ billion plus sample sized studies to calculate the correlations, and improve algorithms, and technology?
"when we develop infinite computational power, my secret/mystery phantom genes will finally be proven as causal"

NEpyPj7.png
 
  • JFL
Reactions: wollet2
Finally, the 0.5 correlate still doesn't disprove what I'm saying nor does it prove your contention.
Yea but Twin study estimates cant prove genetic causality, their heritability does not equal genetic

Read:
Our concern is about where all this will lead. Behavior is influenced by genotype and environment. The environment provided by a parent is influenced by the parent's (not to mention the child's) genotype, and the parent's rearing environment, which had its own tangle of reciprocal genetic and environmental influences. Everything is intercorrelated; every-thing interacts. Where does this leave the columns of "model-fitting heritabilities," meticulously computed to two decimal places and starred for statistical significance on the basis of path models that cannot hope to keep pace with reciprocal causal structures described in the target article?
 
"when we develop infinite computational power, my secret/mystery phantom genes will finally be proven as causal"

NEpyPj7.png

You say
>Yea but Twin study estimates cant prove genetic causality, their heritability does not equal genetic

The study says
>The environment provided by a parent is influenced by the parent's (not to mention the child's) genotype,
>the parent's rearing environment
>reciprocal genetic and environmental influences.
>Everything is intercorrelated

At the same time, that study does not wholly postulate that it isn't genetics or wholly rule out the influence of 'genetic influences'. It concedes the influence of 'GENETIC and environmental influences'. There is a clear concession is there not?

Again, given what we have both already proved about polygenic traits, in the 70k and ~200k sample size, are you rarely saying that a 5 billion person sample size or even a 100m sample ,will almost exclusively replicate your 4% figure, notwithstanding different algorithms, and technology?

If so, you are saying that a 70k v 200k sample size reduced the correlation and that therefore a 200k v 100m sample would suddenly replicate your 4% figure, even if the samples in all those and future studies are likely at least partially, if not wholly, demographically different. I don't know enough about genetic sampling or processing algorithms, but I assume it is fair to assume there will be variance with regard to this between each present and future study?

Again, your logic can be inversed against your arguments, for your study concedes the influence of both noting the "tangle of reciprocal genetic and environmental influences" present.

I think the study best summarizes both when it questions:
>statistical significance on the basis of path models that cannot hope to keep pace with reciprocal causal structures described in the target article?

It will be interesting to see what those scientists come up with in the future, because this definitely is not a foregone, set in stone conclusion. Its statistically the opposite; they concede to the influence of both factors.
 
Last edited:
But your studies are all worthless statistics spam, made by people with agendas. Do you realise how easy it is to get any conclusion you want from these types of studies? Its far from objective. All they have to do is use tricky maths and make the method involved and complex and then they know almost no one will have the time or spend the effort to go through and find the problems so they can pass it off as objective knowledge unchallenged. (But when someone does they get fucking rolled)

It doesn't help that the fundamental building block of any of these psychometric studies is iq, which doesn't even exist. Iq is just a standardised g. g is just a correlation between scores on a battery of tests. That's all it fucking is - a correlation. There is no reason to connect it to human intelligence except dogmatically.

And about me not debunking your studies. This is entirely unreasonable to expect in forum discourse. I could link like 20 studies right now that agree with my point of view, but expecting you to read though hours of bullshit and follow complex statistics is extremely retatded and you should feel bad for being dumb enough to expect me to do this
You didn't prove anything and you refuse to provide evidence, that's all users will remember.
 
op got owned, I lowered his genetic estimate from 80% to 4%-17%. For dysgenics to exist, the genetic component of behavioural traits has to be large. and of course, he must prove that large genetic causality within-population before he can suggest that between-populations genetic differences for behaviour exist

You say
>Yea but Twin study estimates cant prove genetic causality, their heritability does not equal genetic

The study says
>The environment provided by a parent is influenced by the parent's (not to mention the child's) genotype,
>the parent's rearing environment
>reciprocal genetic and environmental influences.
>Everything is intercorrelated

At the same time, that study does not wholly postulate that it isn't genetics or wholly rule out the influence of 'genetic influences'. It concedes the influence of 'GENETIC and environmental influences'. There is a clear concession is there not?

Again, given what we have both already proved about polygenic traits, in the 70k and ~200k sample size, are you rarely saying that a 5 billion person sample size or even a 100m sample ,will almost exclusively replicate your 4% figure, notwithstanding different algorithms, and technology?

If so, you are saying that a 70k v 200k sample size reduced the correlation and that therefore a 200k v 100m sample would suddenly replicate your 4% figure, even if the samples in all those and future studies are likely at least partially, if not wholly, demographically different. I don't know enough about genetic sampling or processing algorithms, but I assume it is fair to assume there will be variance with regard to this between each present and future study?

Again, your logic can be inversed against your arguments, for your study concedes the influence of both noting the "tangle of reciprocal genetic and environmental influences" present.

I think the study best summarizes both when it questions:
>statistical significance on the basis of path models that cannot hope to keep pace with reciprocal causal structures described in the target article?

It will be interesting to see what those scientists come up with in the future, because this definitely is not a foregone, set in stone conclusion. Its statistically the opposite; they concede to the influence of both factors.
Genetics can indirectly effect behaviour, and a small causality for gene snps *has been proven*, i dont deny a "genetic effect". everything is effected by "genetics and environment". The genetic component of EA is caused through gene to environment, genotypic choice in environment (GxE). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7721131/

The computational power needed to "definitively" prove genetic causality of behaviour, like a large power within-siblings GWAS, is infinite/impossible. again, studies (I showed/linked) with better samples and power are showing lower and lower estimates, its over for "genotypic IQ/EA".
 
Race/iq believers need to come up better arguments against mass migration than magical mystery genes for "thoughts", and the infamous phantom "g". "thoughts" cant be selected for, it literally makes 0 sense.

for example, cultural differences are real, crime is real, and phenotype (physical features) differences that you may not prefer, are real;

Environmental "degradation" of the average child, if lower class people are having more children, is real
 
Last edited:
  • +1
Reactions: Deleted member 29796 and wollet2
op got owned, I lowered his genetic estimate from 80% to 4%-17%. For dysgenics to exist, the genetic component of behavioural traits has to be large. and of course, he must prove that large genetic causality within-population before he can suggest that between-populations genetic differences for behaviour exist


Genetics can indirectly effect behaviour, and a small causality for gene snps *has been proven*, i dont deny a "genetic effect". everything is effected by "genetics and environment". The genetic component of EA is caused through gene to environment, genotypic choice in environment (GxE). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7721131/

The computational power needed to "definitively" prove genetic causality of behaviour, like a large power within-siblings GWAS, is infinite/impossible. again, studies (I showed/linked) with better samples and power are showing lower and lower estimates, its over for "genotypic IQ/EA".
I lowered his genetic estimate from 80% to 4%-17%
>genetic causality within-populations v between-populations genetic difference
How is there not genetic causality between-populations genetic differences. How is that not evidenced generally regarding trait selection; type twitch, bone density, grip strength all differ immensely between races or selection of diseases or mental problems like dyslexia having much higher heritability.

>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-022-01062-7
You did not lower the percentage irrefutably.


R6LTtUn.png

You are relying on 8 studies over 4 years where second last, shows a considerable outlier relative to the most recent. It shows a trend. But this trend is an expression of homogenous, relatively small sample sizes (~200k at most), likely similar algorithms, data compositions and sources. How can you deny that as all these change or "innovate", with much larger computing power, that the outcome will reasonably stay the same? That's not rhetoric. That's a genuine question.

Also, you complain about my original source having an agenda while refusing to acknowledge there is also an agenda to silence any counter cultural science that challenges increasing "perspective" that IQ is not heritable or that there are differences between races? What modern Departments, in good faith, are going to actively fund these challenging studies? The scientific field is plagued with fake studies and ideology, and underhanded tactics to deplatform "iffy" science. So this argument can be twisted against you and your sources just as you initially did to me regarding my original sources.

Further, for years our leaders said the vaccines stopped transmission. Then at the EU Parliament we find out that Pfizer never specifically tested for stopping transmission.
The point is, we have the "$cience" or Science with political agendas, purported "scientific" claims, "fair" data, "scientific consensus" and as is the case with these SNP studies, limited data, novel technology and computing power (which will increase). If you found 20+ years of such data, with each study exponentially growing in sample sizes confirming your contention, then maybe your contention would be reasonably proven, but it simply isn't.

I think its evident that neither you nor I have training to a PHD standard in statistics, and no one can in good faith either be persuaded by your perspective or mine.

At best, one can only be put on notice (such is the case with me) that SNP heritability may not be as high as initially thought, but that this is only relevant to those specific markers studied, not others that are more "iffy" or morally ambiguous.

Regardless, thank you for that study. It is prima facie interesting. I will read it fully, later.


Race/iq believers need to come up better arguments against mass migration than magical mystery genes for "thoughts"
This is a stupid quip, and if you are capable of making some of the above arguments, you are likely to understand that you are now being dishonest.

The point that puts all those counter-culture scientists on notice, or at least, likely in their mind, motivates (and at time even biases) their "adverse" findings, is the simple undeniable, difference between interracial crime rates in America and Europe, and the political, economic and social state of European countries like Sweden/Finland/Norway versus lets say South Africa (rolling blackouts, 50 years post apartheid - how long can this card be used against government impropriety?) or Zimbabwe (killing the farmers, then 15 yrs later after the land is forcibly acquired, land masses are still not farmed and the population is starving).
Not to mention, increasing rape/violence statistics across Europe correlating to mass immigration intake or the example, that countries like Germany are now complaining that their immigrant population (around 70%) have not wholly assimilated and are not working. Such cultural and social friction evidenced in the aforementioned and in this study https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3602498 is the motivation for challenging science and anti immigration attitudes.

Crime rates: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
Interesting commentary on South Africa crisis:

Zimbabwe food crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/global-...imbabwes-children-go-hungry-as-crisis-deepens
Rape statistics in Sweden: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8330751/
Such studies are replicated ACROSS Europe.
Immigrant unemployment in Germany - similar in other euro countries. Now such countries seek to implement skilled migrant legislation, as oppose to large intake of non-skilled migrants, who find it harder to assimilate and engage in crime at higher rates https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...long-term-unemployment-benefits-Angela-Merkel
 
Last edited:
>genetic causality within-populations v between-populations genetic difference
How is there not genetic causality between-populations genetic differences. How is that not evidenced generally regarding trait selection; type twitch, bone density, grip strength all differ immensely between races or selection of diseases or mental problems like dyslexia having much higher heritability.

>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-022-01062-7
You did not lower the percentage irrefutably.


R6LTtUn.png

You are relying on 8 studies over 4 years where second last, shows a considerable outlier relative to the most recent. It shows a trend. But this trend is an expression of homogenous, relatively small sample sizes (~200k at most), likely similar algorithms, data compositions and sources. How can you deny that as all these change or "innovate", with much larger computing power, that the outcome will reasonably stay the same? That's not rhetoric. That's a genuine question.

Also, you complain about my original source having an agenda while refusing to acknowledge there is also an agenda to silence any counter cultural science that challenges increasing "perspective" that IQ is not heritable or that there are differences between races? What modern Departments, in good faith, are going to actively fund these challenging studies? The scientific field is plagued with fake studies and ideology, and underhanded tactics to deplatform "iffy" science. So this argument can be twisted against you and your sources just as you initially did to me regarding my original sources.

Further, for years our leaders said the vaccines stopped transmission. Then at the EU Parliament we find out that Pfizer never specifically tested for stopping transmission.
The point is, we have the "$cience" or Science with political agendas, purported "scientific" claims, "fair" data, "scientific consensus" and as is the case with these SNP studies, limited data, novel technology and computing power (which will increase). If you found 20+ years of such data, with each study exponentially growing in sample sizes confirming your contention, then maybe your contention would be reasonably proven, but it simply isn't.

I think its evident that neither you nor I have training to a PHD standard in statistics, and no one can in good faith either be persuaded by your perspective or mine.

At best, one can only be put on notice (such is the case with me) that SNP heritability may not be as high as initially thought, but that this is only relevant to those specific markers studied, not others that are more "iffy" or morally ambiguous.

Regardless, thank you for that study. It is prima facie interesting. I will read it fully, later.


This is a stupid quip, and if you are capable of making some of the above arguments, you are likely to understand that you are now being dishonest.

The point that puts all those counter-culture scientists on notice, or at least, likely in their mind, motivates (and at time even biases) their "adverse" findings, is the simple undeniable, difference between interracial crime rates in America and Europe, and the political, economic and social state of European countries like Sweden/Finland/Norway versus lets say South Africa (rolling blackouts, 50 years post apartheid - how long can this card be used against government impropriety?) or Zimbabwe (killing the farmers, then 15 yrs later after the land is forcibly acquired, land masses are still not farmed and the population is starving).
Not to mention, increasing rape/violence statistics across Europe correlating to mass immigration intake or the example, that countries like Germany are now complaining that their immigrant population (around 70%) have not wholly assimilated and are not working. Such cultural and social friction evidenced in the aforementioned and in this study https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3602498 is the motivation for challenging science and anti immigration attitudes.

Crime rates: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
Interesting commentary on South Africa crisis:

Zimbabwe food crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/global-...imbabwes-children-go-hungry-as-crisis-deepens
Rape statistics in Sweden: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8330751/
Such studies are replicated ACROSS Europe.
Immigrant unemployment in Germany - similar in other euro countries. Now such countries seek to implement skilled migrant legislation, as oppose to large intake of non-skilled migrants, who find it harder to assimilate and engage in crime at higher rates https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...long-term-unemployment-benefits-Angela-Merkel

Finally, irrespective of your opinion on heritability, and reverting back to the macro topic of concern, one CAN witness financial, political and social degradation, for all of the reasons originally posted. I am arguing that this is indicative of an impending Malthusian decline, and the elites seek to insulate themselves from this increase in civil unrest, by increasing concentration of power in the hands of executive through playing on public fear of pandemics, climate change, terrorism, and cyber safety.

This is evidently manifesting in Agenda 2030 and the talk about social credit scores, carbon foot print tracking, digital IDs and central bank digital currencies, which will be used to curb dissent. This will occur through debanking people, limiting goods/technology consumption, profiling "risky" subjects based on their public social media opinion with AI in real time and heightened govt monopoly on violence and threats that will be authorized through illusory legislation, that will be a "catch all" to all those who dissent or criticize, no matter how minutely, government impropriety, manipulation or bias.
 
Last edited:
>genetic causality within-populations v between-populations genetic difference
How is there not genetic causality between-populations genetic differences. How is that not evidenced generally regarding trait selection; type twitch, bone density, grip strength all differ immensely between races or selection of diseases or mental problems like dyslexia having much higher heritability.

>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-022-01062-7
You did not lower the percentage irrefutably.


R6LTtUn.png

You are relying on 8 studies over 4 years where second last, shows a considerable outlier relative to the most recent. It shows a trend. But this trend is an expression of homogenous, relatively small sample sizes (~200k at most), likely similar algorithms, data compositions and sources. How can you deny that as all these change or "innovate", with much larger computing power, that the outcome will reasonably stay the same? That's not rhetoric. That's a genuine question.

Also, you complain about my original source having an agenda while refusing to acknowledge there is also an agenda to silence any counter cultural science that challenges increasing "perspective" that IQ is not heritable or that there are differences between races? What modern Departments, in good faith, are going to actively fund these challenging studies? The scientific field is plagued with fake studies and ideology, and underhanded tactics to deplatform "iffy" science. So this argument can be twisted against you and your sources just as you initially did to me regarding my original sources.

Further, for years our leaders said the vaccines stopped transmission. Then at the EU Parliament we find out that Pfizer never specifically tested for stopping transmission.
The point is, we have the "$cience" or Science with political agendas, purported "scientific" claims, "fair" data, "scientific consensus" and as is the case with these SNP studies, limited data, novel technology and computing power (which will increase). If you found 20+ years of such data, with each study exponentially growing in sample sizes confirming your contention, then maybe your contention would be reasonably proven, but it simply isn't.

I think its evident that neither you nor I have training to a PHD standard in statistics, and no one can in good faith either be persuaded by your perspective or mine.

At best, one can only be put on notice (such is the case with me) that SNP heritability may not be as high as initially thought, but that this is only relevant to those specific markers studied, not others that are more "iffy" or morally ambiguous.

Regardless, thank you for that study. It is prima facie interesting. I will read it fully, later.


This is a stupid quip, and if you are capable of making some of the above arguments, you are likely to understand that you are now being dishonest.

The point that puts all those counter-culture scientists on notice, or at least, likely in their mind, motivates (and at time even biases) their "adverse" findings, is the simple undeniable, difference between interracial crime rates in America and Europe, and the political, economic and social state of European countries like Sweden/Finland/Norway versus lets say South Africa (rolling blackouts, 50 years post apartheid - how long can this card be used against government impropriety?) or Zimbabwe (killing the farmers, then 15 yrs later after the land is forcibly acquired, land masses are still not farmed and the population is starving).
Not to mention, increasing rape/violence statistics across Europe correlating to mass immigration intake or the example, that countries like Germany are now complaining that their immigrant population (around 70%) have not wholly assimilated and are not working. Such cultural and social friction evidenced in the aforementioned and in this study https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3602498 is the motivation for challenging science and anti immigration attitudes.

Crime rates: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
Interesting commentary on South Africa crisis:

Zimbabwe food crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/global-...imbabwes-children-go-hungry-as-crisis-deepens
Rape statistics in Sweden: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8330751/
Such studies are replicated ACROSS Europe.
Immigrant unemployment in Germany - similar in other euro countries. Now such countries seek to implement skilled migrant legislation, as oppose to large intake of non-skilled migrants, who find it harder to assimilate and engage in crime at higher rates https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...long-term-unemployment-benefits-Angela-Merkel

Within group causal snps based heritability estimates for physical traits are large enough to permit physical differences between races/group, tho. "thoughts/behaviour" arent physical things that exist in the brain, making there nothing to "select for".

i said this before itt, but: The pic shows behavioural trait heritability approaching zero with better power + samples. You should expect whatever rare variants picked up in a theoretical larger (infinite computing power) sample to follow the same trend as the snps shrinkage.
 
Within group causal snps based heritability estimates for physical traits are large enough to permit physical differences between races/group, tho. "thoughts/behaviour" arent physical things that exist in the brain, making there nothing to "select for".
Explain Africa. Why are their life outcomes so bad? It's been 50+ years but governments like SA and Zimbabwe still blame white govt, now their infrastructure crumbles? Why do these poor life outcomes end up occurring in countries like America / Europe? How come given all the aid (trillions) over the past 50 years, Africa is still a basket case?
Is it just generational cultural / environmental factors reinforced with each generation? Is that reasonable? If it is reasonable, and given the data (based on the past 5 years), should that mean that similar studies with bigger data sets should be stopped?
Not rhetoric, genuine questions.


Proponents of heritability, applied to race, argue argue argue: "RACE RACE RACE, racial expletive, lmao dumb progressive".
Those against (mainstream science) say: "YOU RACIST YOU RACIST YOU RACIST, then get them fired/cancelled " before pointing toward novel ideas/agos/datasets/ in the past 5 years as being indicative of the larger trend: which is not definite.

i said this before itt, but: The pic shows behavioural trait heritability approaching zero with better power + samples. You should expect whatever rare variants picked up in a theoretical larger (infinite computing power) sample to follow the same trend as the snps shrinkage.
They aren't better power/samples by far. A 70k v 200k samples in the grand scheme of things, relative to what is possible in 10+ years (Hundreds of millions/billions) and different algos (most of those studies, use consensus sets) will be massive.
You are like a stock trader who focuses on the daily chart, restricting the data to intrayear down trend, relative to a broader, long-term bull market. Zooming out and thinking bigger can apply to genetic data sets, computing power and trends, too.
 
Last edited:
Are you a genetic determinist? have you ever considered the deleterious effect pollution has on pre-natal and post-natal children up to age 7?




 
  • +1
Reactions: sub6manletnozygos
Are you a genetic determinist? have you ever considered the deleterious effect pollution has on pre-natal and post-natal children up to age 7?




No, not wholly. Just that these environmental effects will likely have genomic effects overtime.
 
  • +1
Reactions: Nina Power
Explain Africa. Why are their life outcomes so bad? It's been 50+ years but governments like SA and Zimbabwe still blame white govt, now their infrastructure crumbles? Why do these poor life outcomes end up occurring in countries like America / Europe? How come given all the aid (trillions) over the past 50 years, Africa is still a basket case?
Is it just generational cultural / environmental factors reinforced with each generation? Is that reasonable? If it is reasonable, and given the data (based on the past 5 years), should that mean that similar studies with bigger data sets should be stopped?
Not rhetoric, genuine questions.

Proponents of heritability, applied to race, argue argue argue: "RACE RACE RACE, racial expletive, lmao dumb progressive".
Those against (mainstream science) say: "YOU RACIST YOU RACIST YOU RACIST, then get them fired/cancelled " before pointing toward novel ideas/agos/datasets/ in the past 5 years as being indicative of the larger trend: which is not definite.

They aren't better power/samples by far. A 70k v 200k samples in the grand scheme of things, relative to what is possible in 10+ years (Hundreds of millions/billions) and different algos (most of those studies, use consensus sets) will be massive.
You are like a stock trader who focuses on the daily chart, restricting the data to intrayear down trend, relative to a broader, long-term bull market. Zooming out and thinking bigger can apply to genetic data sets, computing power and trends, too.
The presence of multinational or national corporations is welcomed by rebel armed forces. Corporations, paying for the possibility of exploiting natural resources, constitute one of rebels’ main financial resources. Security for the companies in conflict situations is essential for securing and thus enabling their activities. In situations of armed conflict, national private security companies called-depending on the circumstances-private guard services, protection forces or protection companies, can easily be transformed into militia groups (Liberia Report 2005, §21). In the case of Liberia, for instance, during the Taylor regime and the country’s civil war, the permanent state of insecurity made timber companies seek to provide their own protection forces. These forces soon became militia groups engaging in the conflict itself and adding to the number of armed non-state actors already involved. It should be recalled that militias represented one of the largest sources of violent conflict in rural Liberia (Liberia Report 2004b, §18). Sometimes former combatants took advantage of their experience to become business persons. During the lull in the conflict, a number of former generals ran timber companies and used company funds to pay the wages of the security companies that provided protection for their activities. Some of the timber companies were implicated in smuggling arms and ammunitions not only for their security forces, but for government forces as well (Liberia Report 2004a, §124). Arrangements between timber companies and security companies included the latter providing security to the former, which ensured a steady supply of revenue for Taylor, gave employment to a number of combatants who had fought with Taylor’s forces and ensured a loyal security force at the major ports which, if necessary, could be used to control the regular army. Similarly, timber companies paid the wages of soldiers and managers of protection companies. The protection forces, which participated in activities falling far beyond protection, were accused of human rights violations and of intimidating local people and owners of other companies in order to gain access to forests and to make sure that their logging company had better access to the ports. Moreover, they looted and recruited fighters in neighbouring countries such as Côte d’Ivoire (Liberia Report 2004a, §115).

Armed groups also use natural resources as a means of attracting PMCs or, vice versa, PMCs are attracted by natural resources controlled by non-state armed groups. For instance, in the case of the Angolan conflict, the rebel group União Nacional para a Independência Total de Angola (Unita) followed the strategy of using rough diamonds rather than cash or bank deposits as the primary and preferred means of stockpiling wealth. Unita’s ability to exchange rough diamonds and to sell them was a means of sustaining its political and military activities (UN Security Council 10 March 2000, §15-17, 46). Indeed, the rebel group used diamonds exploited in the area under its control to purchase arms, weapons and military equipment as well as to fund military training from foreign actors and from neighbouring countries such as South Africa and Namibia. Whether all the providers of military training, arms and weapons acted on behalf of PMCs or were freelancers is not clear. The UN panel of experts on sanctions against UNITA was could not confirm the presence of mercenary companies, but only that of foreign military personnel assisting the rebel group. At the same time, however, a report of the Special Rapporteur on mercenaries’ activities mentioned the presence of mercenaries in UNITA’s control area and in the government forces, which at the beginning of the 1990s only exercised control over the coastal areas of Angola. According to the Special Rapporteur, there was a profusion of sophisticated weapons in Angola and mercenaries were involved in training troops and fighting (Special Rapporteur 1994, §39). The control UNITA exercised in the eastern part of the country allowed it to facilitate the arrival of mercenaries from Zaire. The government of Angola resorted to companies like the now defunct Executive Outcomes, which had previously fought alongside UNITA, to fight against the rebel group (Special Rapporteur 1994, §40).

In situations of civil war, governments generally welcome the presence of multinationals when the states’ natural resources can be used as the main source of revenue to fund the crisis. Governments use natural resources, be it in nature or as revenues derived from their exploitation, as a mode of payment to companies whose activities are in reality of a military nature. Multinationals bargain their access to and concessions for the exploitation of natural resources and participate in the nexus as intermediaries that facilitate contact among the different actors taking advantage of the nexus. Most of the time, individuals (nationals or foreigners) working for these companies are businesspersons who often supply arms to all sides of the conflict in exchange for access to the revenue from the exploitation of natural resources or who facilitate the transformation of natural resources into financial revenue. The role of these individuals is not always well elucidated because it is not clear if they act as individuals or as employees of those companies.

There is yet another category of non-state actors that has become increasingly important in triggering and perpetuating armed conflicts, defining protagonists’ strategies and coups d’état. In this chapter they are called African ‘independent soldiers’. They become involved in conflicts abroad operating individually, through military or security companies, or through rebel group affiliations at the sub-regional level. ‘Independent soldiers’ engage in armed conflict purely for economic interest. Sometimes they are not-yet-demobilised former combatants from neighbouring countries, for example Liberians in Sierra Leone and Côte d’Ivoire.

In summary, the presence of PSCs and PMCs securing the exploitation of natural resources in situations of armed conflict poses a risk as it contributes to the militarisation of society. In addition, these companies facilitate arms proliferation and, by influencing the balance of military power, exacerbate tensions among protagonists. Furthermore, the dividing line between trading in arms and military training is difficult to determine. During the last decade of the 20th Century, the world discovered the phenomenon of proliferation of weapons-on the African continent mainly small arms. This proliferation was brought about in part by major weapon producing countries’ decision to sell off their stockpiles. A number of actors, including PMCs, got involved in the traffic surrounding arms trading. In many cases, PMCs were involved in trading arms trade alongside many other sellers and buyers, which gave easier access to weaponry to a broader variety of non-state actors directly involved in the conflict. This, in turn, made it easier for PMCs to profit from the nexus between civil wars and the exploitation of natural resources:10 ‘Confident that most of the groups in desperate need of their services are not in a position to pay in cash, “security firms” demand payments in the form of mining concessions and oil contracts’ (‘Kayode Fayemi 2000:23).
 
  • +1
Reactions: Crusile
That's one factor, talking about PMCs and TNCs, applicable to some regions of Africa. Ok. Does that wholly explain the energy shut downs in SA or the mass starvation in Zimbabwe, or continued similar failings and corruption of other States? Or crime rate discrepancies in other countries, even when adjusting for wealth disparities? The answer is no.

Regardless, that wasn't the main point of the thread, which was the prediction of a Malthusian decline due to dysgenics.
All cause mortality, cancer is up, indicators of intelligence are down, per capita genius peaked.

Humanity is devolving and the reason why we move to Agenda 2030 (social credit score, carbon footprint tracking, digital id, central bank digital currencies) is an desperate attempt by elites to order society before mass dysgenics induced, civil unrest occur (iq becomes so low that modern infrastructure is less efficient, problem solving declines, and aggression, violence and infrastructure decline, increase.). Thus, elites need to prove efficient reliance on AI and or technological augmentation before this dysgenic tipping point becomes exponentially impactful.
 
Last edited:
That's one factor, talking about PMCs and TNCs, applicable to some regions of Africa. Ok. Does that wholly explain the energy shut downs in SA or the mass starvation in Zimbabwe, or continued similar failings and corruption of other States? Or crime rate discrepancies in other countries, even when adjusting for wealth disparities? The answer is no.
False, it is applicable to the entirety of africa. Entire generations afflicted by PTSD cannot make a functional societ.

Regardless, that wasn't the main point of the thread, which was prediction a Malthusian decline due to dysgenics.
All cause mortality, cancer is up, indicators of intelligence are down, per capita genius peaked. Humanity is devolving and the reason why we move to Agenda 2030 (social credit score, carbon footprint tracking, digital id, central bank digital currencies) is an desperate attempt by elites to order society before to civil unrest increases due to dysgenics (iq becomes so low that modern infrastructure is less efficient, problem solving goes down, elites need to prove efficient reliance on AI before this tipping point).

Environmental pollution is the cause of this.





 
>genetic causality within-populations v between-populations genetic difference
How is there not genetic causality between-populations genetic differences. How is that not evidenced generally regarding trait selection; type twitch, bone density, grip strength all differ immensely between races or selection of diseases or mental problems like dyslexia having much higher heritability.

>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-022-01062-7
You did not lower the percentage irrefutably.


R6LTtUn.png

You are relying on 8 studies over 4 years where second last, shows a considerable outlier relative to the most recent. It shows a trend. But this trend is an expression of homogenous, relatively small sample sizes (~200k at most), likely similar algorithms, data compositions and sources. How can you deny that as all these change or "innovate", with much larger computing power, that the outcome will reasonably stay the same? That's not rhetoric. That's a genuine question.

Also, you complain about my original source having an agenda while refusing to acknowledge there is also an agenda to silence any counter cultural science that challenges increasing "perspective" that IQ is not heritable or that there are differences between races? What modern Departments, in good faith, are going to actively fund these challenging studies? The scientific field is plagued with fake studies and ideology, and underhanded tactics to deplatform "iffy" science. So this argument can be twisted against you and your sources just as you initially did to me regarding my original sources.

Further, for years our leaders said the vaccines stopped transmission. Then at the EU Parliament we find out that Pfizer never specifically tested for stopping transmission.
The point is, we have the "$cience" or Science with political agendas, purported "scientific" claims, "fair" data, "scientific consensus" and as is the case with these SNP studies, limited data, novel technology and computing power (which will increase). If you found 20+ years of such data, with each study exponentially growing in sample sizes confirming your contention, then maybe your contention would be reasonably proven, but it simply isn't.

I think its evident that neither you nor I have training to a PHD standard in statistics, and no one can in good faith either be persuaded by your perspective or mine.

At best, one can only be put on notice (such is the case with me) that SNP heritability may not be as high as initially thought, but that this is only relevant to those specific markers studied, not others that are more "iffy" or morally ambiguous.

Regardless, thank you for that study. It is prima facie interesting. I will read it fully, later.


This is a stupid quip, and if you are capable of making some of the above arguments, you are likely to understand that you are now being dishonest.

The point that puts all those counter-culture scientists on notice, or at least, likely in their mind, motivates (and at time even biases) their "adverse" findings, is the simple undeniable, difference between interracial crime rates in America and Europe, and the political, economic and social state of European countries like Sweden/Finland/Norway versus lets say South Africa (rolling blackouts, 50 years post apartheid - how long can this card be used against government impropriety?) or Zimbabwe (killing the farmers, then 15 yrs later after the land is forcibly acquired, land masses are still not farmed and the population is starving).
Not to mention, increasing rape/violence statistics across Europe correlating to mass immigration intake or the example, that countries like Germany are now complaining that their immigrant population (around 70%) have not wholly assimilated and are not working. Such cultural and social friction evidenced in the aforementioned and in this study https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3602498 is the motivation for challenging science and anti immigration attitudes.

Crime rates: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21
Interesting commentary on South Africa crisis:

Zimbabwe food crisis: https://www.theguardian.com/global-...imbabwes-children-go-hungry-as-crisis-deepens
Rape statistics in Sweden: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8330751/
Such studies are replicated ACROSS Europe.
Immigrant unemployment in Germany - similar in other euro countries. Now such countries seek to implement skilled migrant legislation, as oppose to large intake of non-skilled migrants, who find it harder to assimilate and engage in crime at higher rates https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...long-term-unemployment-benefits-Angela-Merkel

You forget that the so called 'genetic predisposition' is usually the result of entire families being exposed to some toxin(s).

As if the 3 billion bases that make up the human genome weren’t complex enough, environmental factors are practically limitless! This means there are endless combinations of genes and environmental factors contributing to each person’s unique blend of traits, health, and identity.

Environmental factors often influence traits independently of genes. But not always. Sometimes the environment changes a gene—either its DNA sequence or its activity level. Either of these effects can change the proteins that are made from a gene, which in turn affects traits.

Some harmful environmental factors can change a gene's nucleotide sequence. For example, UV radiation can break DNA strands. Certain chemicals, like those in plastic or cigarette smoke, change the chemical behavior of DNA bases, which can cause one DNA base to substitute for another. And when a virus infects a cell, it copies its own genetic material right into the host's, sometimes right in the middle of a gene. If a cell accumulates too many of these changes, it can develop into cancer.

Environmental factors can also change the epigenome—the chemical tags attached to DNA. These tags cause certain genes to become more or less activate, fine-tuning the amount of protein that's made from them. Diet, toxins, stress, and even physical activity all change the epigenome. These types of changes help the body adjust to what's going on in and around it.
 
Weakening selection pressures and Malthusianism:

We will enter a period of accelerated Malthusianism: Picture exponential population growth plotted against linear resources. Now picture the exponential population reverted to the mean.

Part of this will be because of dysgenics. The industrial revolution created modern technology and modern medicine, it changed social structures and created globalization, which collectively contributed to a weakening of selection pressures. This meant that those who are low iq and are physically unhealthy, lacking capacity for delayed gratification and therein predisposed to a lifestyle premised on living fast and having lots of sex/engaging in hedonism, would have otherwise died under harsh selection pressures. Instead, such dysgenic populations have been afforded a social safety net, in the form of modern political, economic and medical intervention, afforded to by excess production, post-industrial revolution. This dysgenic population has for over 100 year bred at a rate far beyond those who preference resource accumulation and delayed breeding (populations that typically possess a higher iq and health, which are correlated, and who, pre-industrial revolution, were the population who bred the most, as it was their high iq and health that enabled them to cope well with harsh pre-industrial selection pressures, compared to low iq/sick people who died at higher rates).

Scientific evidence of dysgenics:

Notwithstanding cyclical nature of fertility, there is evidence of dysgenics.

There is an evidenced of a lowering of IQ in native populations like northern European countries, even when adjusted for the influence of immigrant populations:

Lynn (1996) Dysgenics: Genetic Deterioration in Modern Populations

Dutton, Linden, Lynn (2016) The negative Flynn effect: A systematic literature review.

These authors, in their further publications, have also noted a decrease in color discrimination ability and verbal expression.

Reaction times are decreasing:


GWAS or genome wide association studies evidence frequencies of genes associated with intelligencem decreasing generationally among native populations:


What does this mean?
If the iq of western countries continues to decline at current rates, the average western iq will be ~80, meaning society will be incapable of coming up with novel scientific or industrial ideas, meaning society won't progress, less alone even maintain current infrastructure.

I suspect that the elites' agenda 2030 campaign (sacrificing individual liberties to justify increasingly authoritarian measures), aims to lessen the blow from the incoming Malthusian decline, by limiting consumption, travel and social mobility, while ensuring those that are in power now, continue to be in power as society declines as dysgenics and civil unrest increases. Their perspective is that such social restrictions (social credit score, carbon footprint, digital ID) will act as social insulation, against humanities genetic and eventual social, political and economic suicide.

Similarly, the movement towards CRSPR technology, albeit in its infancy, and polygenic risk scoring (selecting against diseases currently and eventually for "questionable" traits like intelligence etc), are further measures to counter dysgenics.

Finally, the elites obsession with transhumanism (From Elon musk's neuralink to increasing scientific interest in nanolipid and graphene technology touted for its wide ranging application such as novel application for medical delivery) may also be an attempt to reverse dysgenics. The US government with the following two documents remarks on the widespread application of nano tech and human use.

Further sources:
Honestly really low IQ. Human populations are not exponentially increasing look at China, Japan, Russia, Native Germans, and most other parts of Europe. The populations in developed places are actual decreasing or growing to stagnation. Second of all selection pressure is increasing in the modern area due to dating apps so most men don’t get laid anymore. The two groups that will continue to reproduce are the same that have done so forever those who can buy pussy basically the rich with high iq and those can earn it the best looking people.
 
False, it is applicable to the entirety of africa. Entire generations afflicted by PTSD cannot make a functional societ.



Environmental pollution is the cause of this.





Entire generations afflicted by PTSD cannot make a functional societ.
And there we have it. The same "intergenerational" trauma argument, that always come up.

Question for you, how about the whites who were slaughtered or traded by Barbary Pirates able to create civil societies? Do they have intergenerational trauma?
Or the Afrikaner farmers slaughtered by blacks in Zimbabwe and South Africa? How come Afrikaners are still able to create peaceful, functional societies like Orania?
How come Ashkenazi Jews, after WW2 are able to create Israel or continue to reach impressive intellectual feats evidenced by nobel peace prize awards?
How come whites after be trafficked and traded in the Ottoman empire they able to leave, resettle and innovate in wider Europe?
How come China was able to recover from Japanese persecution?
Or the Japanese from Mongolian persecution?
Or so many races and religions after persecution under the Roman and Hellenic empires?

Persecution isn't explicit to one single race. Generational suffering isn't explicit to one race or religion.
However, the ability to recover from it seems to be according to your logic.

>Environmental pollution is the cause of this.
The genetic correlation is also caused by changing social, economic, political and medical influence after the industrial revolution which is what I initially said.
 
This study revisits the conclusion of Lynn and Vanhanen (2006) which suggests that countries with a high IQ on
average are those with low poverty rates. We go beyond the simple bivariate correlation by controlling for other variables
and using alternative econometric techniques. Our findings confirm that the conclusions of Lynn and Vanhanen
(2006) remain robust. Moreover, the mitigating incidence of intelligence is higher in bottom quantiles than in top
quantiles, which supports the greater relevance of knowledge economy in poorer countries


Maternal education and family wealth have been shown to be substantial predictors of later IQ among healthy children (4–6). Our study, similarly to others, identified this relationship not only among healthy children but also in low birth weight children. Regarding maternal education, a college or university degree proved to be a positive factor for the child’s IQ, while below-average subjective family wealth was an important negative predictor for intelligence at age 4. The neonatal diagnosis of bronchopulmonary dysplasia was a risk factor for the outcome in our study, consistent with the finding of other groups.


And there we have it. The same "intergenerational" trauma argument, that always come up.

Question for you, how about the whites who were slaughtered or traded by Barbary Pirates able to create civil societies? Do they have intergenerational trauma?
Or the Afrikaner farmers slaughtered by blacks in Zimbabwe and South Africa? How come Afrikaners are still able to create peaceful, functional societies like Orania?
How come Ashkenazi Jews, after WW2 are able to create Israel or continue to reach impressive intellectual feats evidenced by nobel peace prize awards?
How come whites after be trafficked and traded in the Ottoman empire they able to leave, resettle and innovate in wider Europe?
How come China was able to recover from Japanese persecution?
Or the Japanese from Mongolian persecution?

Or so many races and religions after persecution under the Roman and Hellenic empires?

Persecution isn't explicit to one single race. Generational suffering isn't explicit to one race or religion.
However, the ability to recover from it seems to be according to your logic.

Armed conflicts haven't stopped in Africa. They have stopped completely in most predominantly white countries.

>Environmental pollution is the cause of this.
The genetic correlation is also caused by changing social, economic, political and medical influence after the industrial revolution which is what I initially said.

Alright.
 
Honestly really low IQ. Human populations are not exponentially increasing look at China, Japan, Russia, Native Germans, and most other parts of Europe. The populations in developed places are actual decreasing or growing to stagnation. Second of all selection pressure is increasing in the modern area due to dating apps so most men don’t get laid anymore. The two groups that will continue to reproduce are the same that have done so forever those who can buy pussy basically the rich with high iq and those can earn it the best looking people.
The argument is for a Malthusian peak either now or in the short term (20 years).
Second of all selection pressure is increasing in the modern area due to dating apps so most men don’t get laid anymore.
Do you think intelligence, verbal skills and genetic health are being selected for? They aren't.
Instead it is extraversion, ADD, height/looks. You are not making sense.
 






Armed conflicts haven't stopped in Africa. They have stopped completely in most predominantly white countries.



Alright.
You are avoiding talking about South Africa and its government. You are avoiding the comparison between northern african states (Morroco) and the south of Africa.

In any case, look at the constant state of Europe since the 1000s. CONSTANT WAR.
If anything it was a selection pressure that selected for the strongest and most innovative minds in Europe, who were still able to maintain civil (ish) societies.

But that didn't occur in Afrika, or did it?

Again, the original argument of the post, is cross-cultural, cross-racial dysgenics (everyone on earth is affected) by the impending collapse.

The elites, understanding that there will be an impending decline, seek to centralize power into the hands of the few (social credit score, carbon foot print tracking, digital ids, central bank digital currencies), to better manage this social collapse.
 
Cage at people thinking human feelings are anything more than random mutations developed over the course of millions of years to improve the species chance of survival and propagation.

that's why random ass plants and chemicals can make you feel better than any sober lived experience could - it's just random shit that happens to nicely slot into your bodies biopsychological composition

try looking at it from an outside perspective: adult salmon swim thousands of miles upstream to the exact location of their own birth in order to lay eggs. They have to swim up fucking waterfalls, are hunted by bears and eagles and the fresh water slowly kills them over time and causes their body to deteriorate. Almost all salmon die in this migration. It's extremely retarded. But they do it anyway because it's their biological programming and I'm sure it makes them feel better than anything else in this world.

Now zoom out, what makes us any different from the salmon? People have a hard time removing the bias from their own goals and desires. Feelings are just ephemeral messages to the brain, mediating the relationship between your conscious existence and the arbitrary hard coded desire of life to persist into the future. Emotions are about sending signals to maximise the likelihood of you behaving in a way that is consistent with preserving the cycles of life. Survival reproduce. Survival reproduce. Survival reproduce. Half the time they malfunction, in many people they don't work at all. But as long as more often that not it pushes people into the right direction it does it's job.

Emotions are beautiful. But they are also a myth. And that's why I choose to chill 24/7 and have fun and stuff
Excellent post. Emotions are basically illusions. The only reason we have them is because it was an advantage for ancestors and they were the ones who continued to reproduce. Literally a configuration of neurons firing and chemicals activated and released. It's just completely arbitrary and people actually think their emotions have significance other than their adaptive functions. It really just shows that humans are legit animals that are literally incapable of acting in any other way than in accordance to the arbitrary chemical stimulation that they just happened to have. People become very pathetic to you when you see how primitive they are in this respect.
 
The argument is for a Malthusian peak either now or in the short term (20 years).

We’re way past peak u.s growth rate it’s been decreasing for a long time.
IMG 0522

Do you think intelligence, verbal skills and genetic health are being selected for? They aren't.
Instead it is extraversion, ADD, height/looks. You are not making sense.
Unironically yes women standards are sky high so there are two methods to getting laid. Be Insanely good looking or beta-bux which you need intelligence for. Coding is growing super fast in the U.S so most betabuxers will be code monkeys combine this with the high iq needed for those jobs and you get a large population of iq moggers.
 
You are avoiding talking about South Africa and its government. You are avoiding the comparison between northern african states (Morroco) and the south of Africa.


In any case, look at the constant state of Europe since the 1000s. CONSTANT WAR.
If anything it was a selection pressure that selected for the strongest and most innovative minds in Europe, who were still able to maintain civil (ish) societies.
What about the 1900's? what major conflicts like widespread genocide has happened on predominantly white developed countries like the U.S. or Italy etc...

If anything it was a selection pressure that selected for the strongest and most innovative minds in Europe, who were still able to maintain civil (ish) societies.
False, a good environment is what makes a well-developed country.

But that didn't occur in Afrika, or did it?
Africa is still afflicted by widespread conventional armed conflicts.

Again, the original argument of the post, is cross-cultural, cross-racial dysgenics (everyone on earth is affected) by the impending collapse.

The elites, understanding that there will be an impending decline, seek to centralize power into the hands of the few (social credit score, carbon foot print tracking, digital ids, central bank digital currencies), to better manage this social collapse.
If we get to the point of widespread Calhoun's behavioural sink then it will be the end of the human race, rich and poor alike. What makes a thriving society is not deadly environmental selection, but a good environment, this is obvious to everyone who is not deluded or has a particular agenda.
 
We’re way past peak u.s growth rate it’s been decreasing for a long time. View attachment 2261572

Unironically yes women standards are sky high so there are two methods to getting laid. Be Insanely good looking or beta-bux which you need intelligence for. Coding is growing super fast in the U.S so most betabuxers will be code monkeys combine this with the high iq needed for those jobs and you get a large population of iq moggers.
Fertility across the western world and asians are declining, which could imply that the peak has been reached.
However, non-breeders are breeding themselves out of the population, leaving on highly religious super breeders eg Amish, Hasidics in American and US populations.

However, it is possible, if there is cultural backlach against progressivism, that religosity increases again (or under a new age religion), and that fertility rates rocket upwards, peaking at around 10-12b and then crashing back down. This would allow for further genetic dysgenics and cement a larger collapse.

Female selection isn't eugenic anymore.
Look at this graph and read the associated study. The results are surprising.
 



What about the 1900's? what major conflicts like widespread genocide has happened on predominantly white developed countries like the U.S. or Italy etc...


False, a good environment is what makes a well-developed country.


Africa is still afflicted by widespread conventional armed conflicts.


If we get to the point of widespread Calhoun's behavioural sink then it will be the end of the human race, rich and poor alike. What makes a thriving society is not deadly environmental selection, but a good environment, this is obvious to everyone who is not deluded or has a particular agenda.


>What about the 1900's? what major conflicts like widespread genocide has happened on predominantly white developed countries like the U.S. or Italy etc...
>Africa is still afflicted by widespread conventional armed conflicts.
Most countries go through armed conflict, over the past 1000+ years. Such countries recover and cope! Yes! There have been many conflicts ACROSS europe/asia/arab states.
However, the baseline civil society of Europe and those other regions has for most of "modern" history (defined as 1000+ AC) reached a higher average standard than Africa. This is also the case for Asian countries.
Armed conflict and generational trauma/slave trading is not an explicitly an African ordeal, giving examples above.
In fact, you may replace active arm conflict with armed gang violence across Europe and America, which is brutal and incessant, yet these countries continue to maintain a relatively higher standard of living.

>False, a good environment is what makes a well-developed country.
yes, good environment is important. HOWEVER, it has genetic affects.
Therefore, genetics matter (and the people). Explain Orania in South Africa. Explain Japan. Explain Israel. Explain why socialism works in Finland/Norway/Sweden but not at well as in Latin America (which is more culturally and racially divided, as well as scoring worse on all other life outcomes). Again, this wasn't impetus behind the original post, though.

>What makes a thriving society is not deadly environmental selection, but a good environment, this is obvious to everyone who is not deluded or has a particular agenda.
Yes. However, there are generational, genetics influence preponderances/social predilictions, as discussed above. This is evidenced through generalized behavior like through inter racial/cultural crime rate discrepancies, even when ADJUSTED for wealth and education. We are just repeating ourselves at this point, and moving away from the point of the original post.

Again, the original argument of the post, is cross-cultural, cross-racial dysgenics affecting everyone on earth (regardless of race/religion). This is caused by changing social, political, economic shifts post industrial revolution (which weakened selection pressures). I am discussing GENETICS (how the decline is precipitated from a genetic perspective), and merely provide a brief credo to environment discussed above. Then I provide evidence of this.

The elites, understanding that there will be an impending decline, seek to centralize power into the hands of the few (social credit score, carbon foot print tracking, digital ids, central bank digital currencies), to better manage this social collapse.
 
Last edited:
Armed conflict and generational trauma/slave trading is not an explicitly an African ordeal, giving examples above.
In fact, you may replace active arm conflict with armed gang violence across Europe and America, which is brutal and incessant, yet these countries continue to maintain a relatively higher standard of living.
False, genocide is an order of magnitude more deleterious for a population than gang violence which doesn't even equate with low-intensity armed conflicts.

>False, a good environment is what makes a well-developed country.
yes, good environment is important. HOWEVER, it has genetic affects.



Explain Japan. Explain Israel. Explain why socialism works in Finland/Norway/Sweden but not at well as in Latin America (which is more culturally and racially divided, as well as scoring worse on all other life outcomes). Again, this wasn't impetus behind the original post, though.
See:
This study revisits the conclusion of Lynn and Vanhanen (2006) which suggests that countries with a high IQ on
average are those with low poverty rates. We go beyond the simple bivariate correlation by controlling for other variables
and using alternative econometric techniques. Our findings confirm that the conclusions of Lynn and Vanhanen
(2006) remain robust. Moreover, the mitigating incidence of intelligence is higher in bottom quantiles than in top
quantiles, which supports the greater relevance of knowledge economy in poorer countries.

https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/56467/1/MPRA_paper_56467.pdf


Maternal education and family wealth have been shown to be substantial predictors of later IQ among healthy children (4–6). Our study, similarly to others, identified this relationship not only among healthy children but also in low birth weight children. Regarding maternal education, a college or university degree proved to be a positive factor for the child’s IQ, while below-average subjective family wealth was an important negative predictor for intelligence at age 4. The neonatal diagnosis of bronchopulmonary dysplasia was a risk factor for the outcome in our study, consistent with the finding of other groups.


Again, the original argument of the post, is cross-cultural, cross-racial dysgenics affecting everyone on earth (regardless of race/religion). This is caused by changing social, political, economic shifts post industrial revolution (which weakened selection pressures). I am discussing GENETICS (how the decline is precipitated from a genetic perspective), and merely provide a brief credo to environment discussed above. Then I provide evidence of this.

The elites, understanding that there will be an impending decline, seek to centralize power into the hands of the few (social credit score, carbon foot print tracking, digital ids, central bank digital currencies), to better manage this social collapse.

Genes are just past environment, improving the current environment will change the genes.

As if the 3 billion bases that make up the human genome weren’t complex enough, environmental factors are practically limitless! This means there are endless combinations of genes and environmental factors contributing to each person’s unique blend of traits, health, and identity.

Environmental factors often influence traits independently of genes. But not always. Sometimes the environment changes a gene—either its DNA sequence or its activity level. Either of these effects can change the proteins that are made from a gene, which in turn affects traits.

Some harmful environmental factors can change a gene's nucleotide sequence. For example, UV radiation can break DNA strands. Certain chemicals, like those in plastic or cigarette smoke, change the chemical behavior of DNA bases, which can cause one DNA base to substitute for another. And when a virus infects a cell, it copies its own genetic material right into the host's, sometimes right in the middle of a gene. If a cell accumulates too many of these changes, it can develop into cancer.

Environmental factors can also change the epigenome—the chemical tags attached to DNA. These tags cause certain genes to become more or less activate, fine-tuning the amount of protein that's made from them. Diet, toxins, stress, and even physical activity all change the epigenome. These types of changes help the body adjust to what's going on in and around it.
 
Last edited:
False, genocide is an order of magnitude more deleterious for a population than gang violence which doesn't even equate with low-intensity armed conflicts.
The point is European countries have gone through considerable historical wars and in contemporary terms considerable gang violence which has widespread civil and political effects (gang violence arguably industrial and created large cities like London/New York). Yet, European society pushes on. It steps over what happens.
Stop being dishonest. Here's 5+ pages of conflicts over 1000+ years. How can you discredit this and its social impact? The difference is different societies/demographics composing of those societies, react differently to historical trauma.

low poverty rates
Maternal education and family wealth
You are so selective with what you respond to. I'm not going to bother retyping what I've said.
This is evidenced through generalized behavior such as through inter racial/cultural crime rate discrepancies across different countries, in different regions of the world, when ADJUSTED for wealth and education.

I going to keep pasting my original contention, as you seem to obsessed with what comes first, the chicken or the egg (genetics or environment and at what point and with what genetic impact, followed by ancillary racial considerations).

Again, the original argument of the post, is cross-cultural, cross-racial dysgenics affecting everyone on earth (regardless of race/religion). This is caused by changing social, political, economic shifts post industrial revolution (which weakened selection pressures). I am discussing GENETICS (how the decline is precipitated from a genetic perspective), and merely provide a brief credo to environment discussed above. Then I provide evidence of this.

The elites, understanding that there will be an impending decline, seek to centralize power into the hands of the few (social credit score, carbon foot print tracking, digital ids, central bank digital currencies), to better manage this social collapse.
 
Last edited:
The point is european countries have gone through considerable historical wars and in contemporary terms considerable gang violence which has widespread civil and political effects. Yet, European society pushes on. It steps over what happens.
Stop being dishonest. Here's 5+ pages of conflicts over 1000+ years. How can you discredit this and its social impact?
How many genocides against white people have happened since the 1900's in the U.S., Canada, Italy, France and predominantly white and well-developed countries?

Show me one similar to this one:


You are so selective with what you respond to. I'm not going to bother retyping what I've said.
This is evidenced through generalized behavior such as through inter racial/cultural crime rate discrepancies across different countries, in different regions of the world, when ADJUSTED for wealth and education.
Keep ignoring the facts.
 

Similar threads

heightmaxxing
Replies
17
Views
2K
Klasik01
Klasik01
D
Replies
2
Views
387
Milosz
Milosz
dreamcake1mo
Replies
88
Views
20K
stamaster21
stamaster21
sub6manletnozygos
Replies
10
Views
481
StalinCel
StalinCel

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top