DHT/Dihydrotestosterone is cope

[mariniguy]

DHT/Dihydrotestosterone is cope,
Everyone in these forums acts like DHT is the king hormone for building muscle and keeping your bones strong. It isn't. Here's what the actual research says.

DHT and muscle:
Bhasin et al, JAMA 2012 - 102 healthy men, 20 weeks. One group took testosterone only. The other took testosterone plus dutasteride which blocks DHT by 95%.
both groups gained the same amount of muscle at every single dose of testosterone tested. The researchers concluded DHT conversion is not required for testosterone's anabolic effects.
PUBMED

DHT and bone density:
Amory et al, Journal of Urology 2008 - 99 men aged 18 to 55 randomised to dutasteride, finasteride and a placebo pill for 52 weeks. Bone mineral density was measured at baseline, 52 weeks, and 6 months after stopping. The result of this was no significant effect on bone density in any group. Circulating DHT has no clinically meaningful role in maintaining bone mass in normal men.
PUBMED

Matsumoto et al, Journal of Urology 2002 - A 4 year placebo controlled DEXA trial. Same conclusion. Long-term DHT suppression via finasteride did not adversely affect bone mineral density.
PUBMED

Antoniou et al, BMC Musculoskeletal Disorders 2018 - 63,230 men on dutasteride vs finasteride. Dutasteride suppresses DHT far more aggressively than finasteride. No increased fracture risk. No increased osteoporosis. The dutasteride group actually had higher bone density scores. JFL
PUBMED

What DHT is actually useful for:
Penile development. DHT drives external genital masculinisation in utero and during puberty. Topical DHT gel outperformed testosterone enanthate in a 2023 RCT for treating micropenis's with an average gain of 2.37 cm versus 1.82 cm.
PUBMED

Prostate development. DHT is the dominant androgen in prostate tissue. That is why blocking it shrinks an enlarged prostate.

Low DHT and delayed bone fusion:
Liu et al, Frontiers in Pharmacology 2019 - A multicenter study of 141 children with 5-alpha reductase type 2 deficiency. They all produce near zero DHT from birth. Bone age was assessed using the Greulich Pyle atlas across all patients. The finding is that bone age was delayed in 5-alpha reductase deficient children compared to their chronological age. Kids with no DHT were skeletally younger than their actual age. Their growth plates were fusing slower.
PUBMED

The negatives of DHT:
Hair loss is a major one, DHT binds to androgen receptors in scalp follicles and miniaturises them over time which is the mechanism behind male pattern baldness.
PUBMED

Acne and sebum overproduction is the second major one, 5-alpha reductase type 1 which produces DHT, is the dominant isoform in sebaceous glands. Elevated DHT activity in skin directly increases oil production and is a documented contributor to acne.
PUBMED

Summary:
DHT is utter fucking cope and you really don't fucking need it unless you have a micropenis You will not get more gains, You will not get more bone mass. DHT is destructive after your penis stops growing. Also it is ruining your height gains

 

[Marlow]

Hair is not needed to be good looking, look at Jeremy Meeks

 

[tension]

It’s not useless if you’re still developing

It can be very masculinizing

Once you’re done developing it’s pretty useless

Hair is not needed to be good looking, look at Jeremy Meeks

Retard

 

[mariniguy]

The study's prove against it JFL. Blocking DHT can actually keep your plates open for longer meaning more time for test to do its job...

 

[mariniguy]

Hair is not needed to be good looking, look at Jeremy Meeks

Swallow it

 

[Jesus_ist_König]

Hair is not needed to be good looking, look at Jeremy Meeks

Cuz his other facial parts are good. Exceptions exist?
for most ppl hair is law

 

[Marlow]

Cuz his other facial parts are good. Exceptions exist?
for most ppl hair is law

only law for people with face issue

 

[Jesus_ist_König]

only law for people with face issue

Most ppl

 

[Marlow]

Most ppl

cuz most people are chuds

 

[karmacitathugmaxx]

waiting for DHT to do something useful after giving you acne, disgusting back hair and closing your growth plates

 

[Orka]

Bump

 

[stigmaboy]

dht's not cope it's just a hormone playing its role. the "cope" part is expecting it to magically boost ur looks when it's more known for balding and acne. ur right about the negatives though, it's def a drag on ur aesthetics if those are ur issues.

 

[Fridx]

Hair is not needed to be good looking, look at Jeremy Meeks

Hair is life

 

[6footislaw]

dht's not cope it's just a hormone playing its role. the "cope" part is expecting it to magically boost ur looks when it's more known for balding and acne. ur right about the negatives though, it's def a drag on ur aesthetics if those are ur issues.

its cope after 20

 

[Marlow]

Hair is life

It's like height is needed if you're chopped.

Look at Tom Cruise

Same situation with hair - look at Meeks

 

[Zagro]

Retard, feel free to use 5ar-inhibitors in your teenage years nobody gives a fuck

 

[Zagro]

Low DHT and delayed bone fusion:
Liu et al, Frontiers in Pharmacology 2019 - A multicenter study of 141 children with 5-alpha reductase type 2 deficiency. They all produce near zero DHT from birth. Bone age was assessed using the Greulich Pyle atlas across all patients. The finding is that bone age was delayed in 5-alpha reductase deficient children compared to their chronological age. Kids with no DHT were skeletally younger than their actual age. Their growth plates were fusing slower.
PUBMED

"Between the ages of 2 and 13 years, their growth velocity decreases gradually and height fluctuates around the median height of normal Chinese boys." growth velocity gradually decreases and reaches normal HTSDS of normal chinese boys their age, zero change in final adult height.

"To sum up, these data showed that the height in 5αRD children increased faster than the normal population before 2 years of age, especially within the first 1 year of life, after which, the growth velocity gradually reduced and fluctuated near the median height of normal Chinese boys of the same age." once again it doesn't change FAH.

"Thereafter, the slowed growth rate is a consequence of lower T during the quiescence of childhood before puberty." the slowed growth rate is caused by significantly lower T levels during childhood=significantly less estrogen levels meaning they just has low estrogen which decreased the acceleration of bone maturation rate.

If you really want to get raped further on the BMD part just tell me, it's just more humiliation for you not being able to read studies.

 

[mariniguy]

"Between the ages of 2 and 13 years, their growth velocity decreases gradually and height fluctuates around the median height of normal Chinese boys." growth velocity gradually decreases and reaches normal HTSDS of normal chinese boys their age, zero change in final adult height.

"To sum up, these data showed that the height in 5αRD children increased faster than the normal population before 2 years of age, especially within the first 1 year of life, after which, the growth velocity gradually reduced and fluctuated near the median height of normal Chinese boys of the same age." once again it doesn't change FAH.

"Thereafter, the slowed growth rate is a consequence of lower T during the quiescence of childhood before puberty." the slowed growth rate is caused by significantly lower T levels during childhood=significantly less estrogen levels meaning they just has low estrogen which decreased the acceleration of bone maturation rate.

If you really want to get raped further on the BMD part just tell me, it's just more humiliation for you not being able to read studies.

Read what you just posted back to yourself slowly.

You just confirmed my entire argument and framed it as a rebuttal JFL

"the slowed growth rate is a consequence of lower T during childhood" - YOUR words. lower T = less aromatization = less E2. you just told me the bone maturation delay is an estrogen deficit effect, not a DHT deficit effect. that is literally my position. you proved it for me.

then you confirm FAH is normal. zero DHT from birth, plates close on time, normal final height. if DHT was actually driving fusion i'd predict delayed closure and extra height gained from the longer growth window. doesn't happen. normal height every time. your own quotes are defeating your own point.



Go to .net and research bud, You need it.

 

[mariniguy]

Retard, feel free to use 5ar-inhibitors in your teenage years nobody gives a fuck

Keep coping with muscles with your under developed face jfl

 

[Zagro]

Read what you just posted back to yourself slowly.

You just confirmed my entire argument and framed it as a rebuttal JFL

"the slowed growth rate is a consequence of lower T during childhood" - YOUR words. lower T = less aromatization = less E2. you just told me the bone maturation delay is an estrogen deficit effect, not a DHT deficit effect. that is literally my position. you proved it for me.

then you confirm FAH is normal. zero DHT from birth, plates close on time, normal final height. if DHT was actually driving fusion i'd predict delayed closure and extra height gained from the longer growth window. doesn't happen. normal height every time. your own quotes are defeating your own point.



Go to .net and research bud, You need it.

Wow you really are retarded

You can go hypogonadal if you want low T that much, but you should know that low T is bad for height too as androgens benefit height growth.

Another thing you have no idea about: when DHT isn't available, your testosterone levels increase and androgen receptors change in order to compensate for the "damage" inflicted on your body, their hormonal profiles are different than that of a normal child.

"To sum up, these data showed that the height in 5αRD children increased faster than the normal population before 2 years of age, especially within the first 1 year of life, after which, the growth velocity gradually reduced and fluctuated near the median height of normal Chinese boys of the same age." Read this again son or are you dyslexic? Their height doesn't change at all because their growth velocity reduces and reaches normal levels compared to their peers, their height doesn't increase in any way.

"you just told me the bone maturation delay is an estrogen deficit effect, not a DHT deficit effect. that is literally my position. you proved it for me." + "Also it is ruining your height gain" + "Kids with no DHT were skeletally younger than their actual age." Interesting how you contradict yourself here hm? You first said it was because of DHT and that DHT ruins growth, but now you claim it was never about DHT but it was about estrogen? Water found in river ahh statement.

Are you retarded? I didn't claim that DHT was bad for height, you did. What the fuck am I reading bro??? Are you fucking retarded????

 

[Surrender]

Go to .net and research bud, You need it.

Nahh, i wouldnt be talking to the legend Zagro like that

 

[mariniguy]

Wow you really are retarded

You can go hypogonadal if you want low T that much, but you should know that low T is bad for height too as androgens benefit height growth

"To sum up, these data showed that the height in 5αRD children increased faster than the normal population before 2 years of age, especially within the first 1 year of life, after which, the growth velocity gradually reduced and fluctuated near the median height of normal Chinese boys of the same age." Read this again son or are you dyslexic? Their height doesn't change at all because their growth velocity reduces and reaches normal levels compared to their peers, their height doesn't increase in any way.

"you just told me the bone maturation delay is an estrogen deficit effect, not a DHT deficit effect. that is literally my position. you proved it for me." + "Also it is ruining your height gain" + "Kids with no DHT were skeletally younger than their actual age." Interesting how you contradict yourself here hm? You first said it was because of DHT and that DHT ruins growth, but now you claim it was never about DHT but it was about estrogen? Water found in river ahh statement.

Are you retarded? I didn't claim that DHT was bad for height you did what the fuck am I reading bro??? Are you fucking retarded????

calling me retarded because you found an imprecise line in my summary while completely ignoring that FAH is normal in every 5αRD2 patient ever studied is actually insane

you're celebrating a wording error while the actual argument is still sitting there unanswered. DHT absent from birth, plates close on time, normal final height. respond to that or admit you have nothing

 

[mariniguy]

Nahh, i wouldnt be talking to the legend Zagro like that

"legend" On a forum that fit's his time line jfl, He need's to discover pua communities

Joined Aug 19, 2024,
DNR

 

[Surrender]

"legend" On a forum that fit's his time line jfl, He need's to discover pua communities

Joined Aug 19, 2024,
DNR

Hes one of the smartest people on here

 

[Zagro]

calling me retarded because you found an imprecise line in my summary while completely ignoring that FAH is normal in every 5αRD2 patient ever studied is actually insane

you're celebrating a wording error while the actual argument is still sitting there unanswered. DHT absent from birth, plates close on time, normal final height. respond to that or admit you have nothing

Yeah so this means that DHT isn't bad for height, and that your body can change in order to compensate for the deficiency.

Tell me what this means and how this doesn't contradict what you implicated? You said DHT was bad, you said that it stunts growth.

Now you go on to tell me that DHT isn't bad for growth and that children with zero DHT reach normal final adult height, which literally supports my argument against you?

Bro i genuinely feel sorry for you lol

 

[mariniguy]

Yeah so this means that DHT isn't bad for height, and that your body can change in order to compensate for the deficiency.

Tell me what this means and how this doesn't contradict what you implicated? You said DHT was bad, you said that it stunts growth.

Now you go on to tell me that DHT isn't bad for growth and that children with zero DHT reach normal final adult height, which literally supports my argument against you?

Bro i genuinely feel sorry for you lol

yeah exactly, zero DHT from birth and FAH is completely normal. that's the whole point. DHT is irrelevant to final height outcome in both directions. Its absence doesn't stunt you and its presence doesn't help you

that's not your argument winning, that's mine. my entire post was arguing DHT is unnecessary and does nothing meaningful. you just confirmed it with your own mouth

your original position was that DHT matters. the only study on the table proves it doesn't. so what exactly are you arguing DHT does for height? because everything cited so far says nothing

 

[Zagro]

yeah exactly, zero DHT from birth and FAH is completely normal. that's the whole point. DHT is irrelevant to final height outcome in both directions. Its absence doesn't stunt you and its presence doesn't help you

that's not your argument winning, that's mine. my entire post was arguing DHT is unnecessary and does nothing meaningful. you just confirmed it with your own mouth

your original position was that DHT matters. the only study on the table proves it doesn't. so what exactly are you arguing DHT does for height? because everything cited so far says nothing

"Another thing you have no idea about: when DHT isn't available, your testosterone levels increase and androgen receptors change in order to compensate for the "damage" inflicted on your body, their hormonal profiles are different than that of a normal child."

Read child

 

[mariniguy]

"Another thing you have no idea about: when DHT isn't available, your testosterone levels increase and androgen receptors change in order to compensate for the "damage" inflicted on your body, their hormonal profiles are different than that of a normal child."

Read child

Im 2x your age bud,

Yeah sure, T accumulates because the 5α pathway is blocked and AR sensitivity adjusts.
now tell me what that compensation runs through. elevated T aromatizes to E2. E2 acts on the growth plate. plates close on schedule. FAH normal. DHT is zero the entire time and not involved in any step of that process

you're describing a pathway that completely bypasses DHT and still produces normal fusion. that's not a counter to my argument, that's the mechanism i've been describing the whole time. the body doesn't compensate by finding another way to produce DHT effects at the plate bc it compensates through estrogen. which proves E2 is sufficient and DHT is redundant

 

[Billow]

It's like height is needed if you're chopped.

Look at Tom Cruise

Same situation with hair - look at Meeks

Yea a 1 in a million face w top tier status and money. Compared to him you are an ant lol.

 

[sonic55555]

Hair is not needed to be good looking, look at Jeremy Meeks

brooooo what