do estrogen blockers help increase testoterone?

[David Disaster]

i think estrogen blockers helps the production of testosterone in men, but i want to talk to people who are experts about this thing if any of you guys have sources plz share them with me

 

[TeenagePharmacy]

Every male should be on at least a low dose AI with all of the phytoestrogens in the modern environment. I didn't realize how much they worked until I stopped taking them. They may lower libido in some, but they make you crazy lowinhib.

 

[didntreadlol]

You're talking about AIs right? They don't help with the production of T i think, but they stop the conversion of T to E

 

[Deleted member 5683]

Never heard of these bump

 

[Deleted member 6867]

skip to 5:59, talks about using estrogen blockers

 

[Deleted member 1338]

start lifting

 

[Cope]

Exemestane (aromasin) is androgenic:

Exemestane's 17-hydroxylated metabolite exerts biological effects as an androgen - PubMed

Aromatase inhibitors (AI) are being evaluated as long-term adjuvant therapies and chemopreventives in breast cancer. However, there are concerns about bone mineral density loss in an estrogen-free environment. Unlike nonsteroidal AIs, the steroidal AI exemestane may exert beneficial effects on...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also:
Exemestane makes you slimmer and more muscular

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Exemestane (aromasin) is androgenic:

Exemestane's 17-hydroxylated metabolite exerts biological effects as an androgen - PubMed

Aromatase inhibitors (AI) are being evaluated as long-term adjuvant therapies and chemopreventives in breast cancer. However, there are concerns about bone mineral density loss in an estrogen-free environment. Unlike nonsteroidal AIs, the steroidal AI exemestane may exert beneficial effects on...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also:
Exemestane makes you slimmer and more muscular

Ray peat forum is woke asf.

 

[Deleted member 4410]

There has been a study on AIs where men who used them had worse body fat distribution vs those who didn't.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa1206168

 

[Cope]

Ray peat forum is woke asf.

Indeed, son.

Btw I've been meaning to ask you, should I hop on Androsterone or DHT? How likely would it be that I would start balding on Andro, and are the neurosteroid effects noticeable enough?

 

[Deleted member 534]

Everyone needs estrogen retards

Even women needs testosterone

Don’t play this game you are unattractive because of your face not because of Testosterone or estrogen

 

[Cope]

Everyone needs estrogen retards

Even women needs testosterone

Don’t play this game you are unattractive because of your face not because of Testosterone or estrogen

Yea it’s definitely not a good idea to completely kill E, but keep your levels low.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Indeed, son.

Btw I've been meaning to ask you, should I hop on Androsterone or DHT? How likely would it be that I would start balding on Andro, and are the neurosteroid effects noticeable enough?

depends on what your goals are with it. If it's for masculinization than you're not going to get much out of it, if it's for inhibiting aromatase than sure it's a good steroid, it's very similar to the structure of 4-androstenedione which basically what exemestane is derived from, the only difference between exemestane and 4-androstenedione is the additional double bond between C1 and C2 positions which concurs extreme metabolic stability. Androsterone is just the reversible metabolite via androstanediol through 17b-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase, so if you supplement with androsterone you're going to be upregulating your endogenous DHT, not only does it metabolize back into DHT when exogenously administrated, it also upregulates 5-ar in the brain, so it's a win-win.

as for the second part of the question, the neurosteroid benefits are slightly noticeable, one of the only side effects I really noticed was increased basal body temp, due to it's ability to mimic thyroid.

 

[Cope]

depends on what your goals are with it. If it's for masculinization than you're not going to get much out of it, if it's for inhibiting aromatase than sure it's a good steroid, it's very similar to the structure of 4-androstenedione which basically what exemestane is derived from, the only difference between exemestane and 4-androstenedione is the additional double bond between C1 and C2 positions which concurs extreme metabolic stability. Androsterone is just the reversible metabolite via androstanediol through 17b-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase, so if you supplement with androsterone you're going to be upregulating your endogenous DHT, not only does it metabolize back into DHT when exogenously administrated, it also upregulates 5-ar in the brain, so it's a win-win.

as for the second part of the question, the neurosteroid benefits are slightly noticeable, one of the only side effects I really noticed was increased basal body temp, due to it's ability to mimic thyroid.

Cool, I'm pretty much sold on it then. I like that it doesn't downregulate GABA, really makes me want to experiment more with androgens.

 

[Incoming]

depends on what your goals are with it. If it's for masculinization than you're not going to get much out of it, if it's for inhibiting aromatase than sure it's a good steroid, it's very similar to the structure of 4-androstenedione which basically what exemestane is derived from, the only difference between exemestane and 4-androstenedione is the additional double bond between C1 and C2 positions which concurs extreme metabolic stability. Androsterone is just the reversible metabolite via androstanediol through 17b-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase, so if you supplement with androsterone you're going to be upregulating your endogenous DHT, not only does it metabolize back into DHT when exogenously administrated, it also upregulates 5-ar in the brain, so it's a win-win.

as for the second part of the question, the neurosteroid benefits are slightly noticeable, one of the only side effects I really noticed was increased basal body temp, due to it's ability to mimic thyroid.

are there any ai's that don't upregulate 5-ar?

 

[Deleted member 2756]

are there any ai's that don't upregulate 5-ar?

no not really, letrozole and anastrozole both inhibit CYP17A1 which is the enzyme responsible for converting 17-hydroxy-pregnenolone and 17-hydroxy-progesterone into dehydroepiandrosterone and androstenedione respectively, so they're a no go in my opinion because they interfere with multiple CYP's which is counterproductive if your goal is to increase androgen load.

Cool, I'm pretty much sold on it then. I like that it doesn't downregulate GABA, really makes me want to experiment more with androgens.

you should up your caffeine and take some niacinamide. Caffeine increases 5ar in the brain which in turn increases the metabolism of progesterone and testosterone into neurosteroids through dihydrotestosterone and 5a-dihydroprogesterone. Niacinamide also upregulates neurosteroid synthesis, but it also acts as a GABA-A receptor agonist. I've kinda lost my passion for this shit, gotta regain it.

 

[Incoming]

no not really, letrozole and anastrozole both inhibit CYP17A1 which is the enzyme responsible for converting 17-hydroxy-pregnenolone and 17-hydroxy-progesterone into dehydroepiandrosterone and androstenedione respectively, so they're a no go in my opinion because they interfere with multiple CYP's which is counterproductive if your goal is to increase androgen load.

So aromasin is my best bet if sensitive to dht?

 

[Deleted member 2756]

So aromasin is my best bet if sensitive to dht?

are you afraid of balding?

 

[Incoming]

are you afraid of balding?

Yes Dad is bald but both grandfathers had hair so its a 50/50. Either way I want to be safe

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Yes Dad is bald but both grandfathers had hair so its a 50/50. Either way I want to be safe

I see.
All aromatase inhibitors will increase dht because when you deprive the hypothalamic receptors from estradiol it'll upregulate gnrh which in turn will increase LH. An overload of LH will dramatically increase steroidogenesis, meaning more androgens, more dht.

 

[Incoming]

I see.
All aromatase inhibitors will increase dht because when you deprive the hypothalamic receptors from estradiol it'll upregulate gnrh which in turn will increase LH. An overload of LH will dramatically increase steroidogenesis, meaning more androgens, more dht.

Hmm...Would a mild dht inhibitor like ketoconozale be enough to offset the increase?

 

[Cope]

you should up your caffeine and take some niacinamide. Caffeine increases 5ar in the brain which in turn increases the metabolism of progesterone and testosterone into neurosteroids through dihydrotestosterone and 5a-dihydroprogesterone. Niacinamide also upregulates neurosteroid synthesis, but it also acts as a GABA-A receptor agonist. I've kinda lost my passion for this shit, gotta regain it.

Yea, I've been drinking caffeine a lot more recently after reading the studies. Seems to work pretty well, been supplementing with P5P and phosphatidylserine to prevent the slight cortisol increase. Niacinamide made me very euphoric the first time I megadosed it (with some Glycine), I'm worried about downregulation though so I take it sparingly. Bacopa helps, but I kinda fucked myself over pretty hard when I took some Xanax the other day.

 

[rax1337]

You're talking about AIs right? They don't help with the production of T i think, but they stop the conversion of T to E

wrong. AI's increase LH by decreasing the amount of estradiol binding in the hypothalamus.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Hmm...Would a mild dht inhibitor like ketoconazole be enough to offset the increase?

I'd say that's counterproductive as ketoconazole's mechanism of action is through the inhibition of 17a-hydroxylase (CYP17A1) which is the same enzyme that letrozole and anastrozole also inhibit slightly, if you were to take the two your testicles would become bowling balls, but your androgen load would decrease, this is all hypothetical, as I'm assuming that you're talking about oral as it doesn't have a long half-life topically.

Ketoconazole seems to be efficient at decreasing cortisol, but you'd have to take it orally, it doesn't actually inhibit 5ar like finasteride or dutasteride, rather just interferes with the metabolism of 17-hydroxy-progesterone and 17-hydroxy-pregnenolone within the scalp (for those taking it for balding) it also acts a weak competitor for the androgen receptor, very weak though.

plus ketoconazole is kind of dangerous as it interferes with loads of enzymes responsible for the metabolism of many chemicals, so I'd avoid it like the plague.

Yea, I've been drinking caffeine a lot more recently after reading the studies. Seems to work pretty well, been supplementing with P5P and phosphatidylserine to prevent the slight cortisol increase. Niacinamide made very euphoric the first time I megadosed it (with some Glycine), I'm worried about downregulation though so I take it sparingly. Bacopa helps, but I kinda fucked myself over pretty hard when I took some Xanax the other day.

cycle niacinamide for that exact reason, it'll cause pretty intense downregulation. That's another good one, glycine. Pretty sure a memeber on ray peat forum took 15g of glycine daily and came back with a whopping dht score. Just be sure to eat enough methionine (not hard as it's in basically everything)

 

[Incoming]

I'd say that's counterproductive as ketoconazole's mechanism of action is through the inhibition of 17a-hydroxylase (CYP17A1) which is the same enzyme that letrozole and anastrozole also inhibit slightly, if you were to take the two your testicles would become bowling balls, but your androgen load would decrease, this is all hypothetical, as I'm assuming that you're talking about oral as it doesn't have a long half-life topically.

Ketoconazole seems to be efficient at decreasing cortisol, but you'd have to take it orally, it doesn't actually inhibit 5ar like finasteride or dutasteride, rather just interferes with the metabolism of 17-hydroxy-progesterone and 17-hydroxy-pregnenolone within the scalp (for those taking it for balding) it also acts a weak competitor for the androgen receptor, very weak though.

plus ketoconazole is kind of dangerous as it interferes with loads of enzymes responsible for the metabolism of many chemicals, so I'd avoid it like the plague.

I didn't know that about ketoconazole, always thought it was like saw palmetto/fin. Million dollar question: How can i prevent balding without castrating myself?

 

[Deleted member 4410]

@Dyorotic2 "plus ketoconazole is kind of dangerous as it interferes with loads of enzymes responsible for the metabolism of many chemicals, so I'd avoid it like the plague."

Very intetesting. Gotta read about it.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

@Dyorotic2 "plus ketoconazole is kind of dangerous as it interferes with loads of enzymes responsible for the metabolism of many chemicals, so I'd avoid it like the plague."

Very intetesting. Gotta read about it.

yeah, you should.
I mean it's main purpose is to interfere with the synthesis of cholesterol, so in itself, it fucks with steroid synthesis as cholesterol is the first precursor to all steroid hormones. It's not controlled enough to use In my opinion, and topical is barely effective for baldfags.

 

[Foundation]

Don't do it, your body needs it. I am dealing with the long term ramifications of Lupron which inhibits estrogen production, you'll deal with bone density lose as well as a myriad of other side effects.

Reducing the minimal amount of estrogen in your body may slightly increase testosterone but its be more effective to top off testosterone in your body.

However using T will only damage your bodies ability to produce it on it's own and has it's own side effects.

 

[goat2x]

no not really, letrozole and anastrozole both inhibit CYP17A1 which is the enzyme responsible for converting 17-hydroxy-pregnenolone and 17-hydroxy-progesterone into dehydroepiandrosterone and androstenedione respectively, so they're a no go in my opinion because they interfere with multiple CYP's which is counterproductive if your goal is to increase androgen load.

you should up your caffeine and take some niacinamide. Caffeine increases 5ar in the brain which in turn increases the metabolism of progesterone and testosterone into neurosteroids through dihydrotestosterone and 5a-dihydroprogesterone. Niacinamide also upregulates neurosteroid synthesis, but it also acts as a GABA-A receptor agonist. I've kinda lost my passion for this shit, gotta regain it.

Ais for cyp19a ?
It makes your maxilla and jaw grow forward

 

[Deleted member 2756]

Ais for cyp19a ?
It makes your maxilla and jaw grow forward

Huh? Aromatase is encoded by the CYP19A1 gene.
it's just the correct terminology for aromatase, another word for it really.

 

[goat2x]

Huh? Aromatase is encoded by the CYP19A1 gene.
it's just the correct terminology for aromatase, another word for it really.

im not an expert in that field but i think cyp19a converts estrogen and T or no?
here is a study im talking about

Association between CYP19A1 genotype and pubertal sagittal jaw growth - PubMed

A quantitative trait locus that influences male pubertal sagittal jaw growth might exist in the CYP19A1 gene, and single nucleotide polymorphisms rs2470144 and rs2445761 might be inside this quantitative trait locus or be linked to it.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

someone claimed on lookism that u can take ai during puberty and make your jaw grow forward

 

[AscendingHero]

depends on what your goals are with it. If it's for masculinization than you're not going to get much out of it, if it's for inhibiting aromatase than sure it's a good steroid, it's very similar to the structure of 4-androstenedione which basically what exemestane is derived from, the only difference between exemestane and 4-androstenedione is the additional double bond between C1 and C2 positions which concurs extreme metabolic stability. Androsterone is just the reversible metabolite via androstanediol through 17b-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase, so if you supplement with androsterone you're going to be upregulating your endogenous DHT, not only does it metabolize back into DHT when exogenously administrated, it also upregulates 5-ar in the brain, so it's a win-win.

as for the second part of the question, the neurosteroid benefits are slightly noticeable, one of the only side effects I really noticed was increased basal body temp, due to it's ability to mimic thyroid.

@Henry_Gandy @TeenAscender @BearBoy @WadlowMaxxing @BoosterShotEnjoyer @RoundHouse @GigaAscender

Seems like Androsterone mogs Exemestane (aromasin) to self-harm holy fuck, tera high iq post from Dyrotic

 

[BearBoy]

@Henry_Gandy @TeenAscender @BearBoy @WadlowMaxxing @BoosterShotEnjoyer @RoundHouse @GigaAscender

Seems like Androsterone mogs Exemestane (aromasin) to self-harm holy fuck, tera high iq post from Dyrotic

idk man i never took these things

why would you recommend? just asking for advice

 

[AscendingHero]

idk man i never took these things

why would you recommend? just asking for advice

wdym do you mean like what stack i recommend?

idk man i never took these things

what did you take and what results did you notice?

 

[BearBoy]

wdym do you mean like what stack i recommend?

what did you take and what results did you notice?

idk about aromatize things much since i havent researched

also dont wanna mess with my hormone balance since its all a fuck up for the mind