Do you need PCT if you run test only cycle?

[appeal]

title

 

[ducksoover]

so why would you run the cycle?

let's look at what is going to happen.

You inject T, your body changes, you build muscle etc and then your natural testosterone production shuts down.

You continue to pin until your cycle ends (6-12 weeks).

You finish cycle and start PCT.. you being to lose gains and WILL lose about 80-100% because your natural testosterone cannot support your new muscle mass.

You have fucked your endocrine system for what? 6-12 weeks of gains? not even life changing gains, you will still look mediocre compared to many lifters.

Instead, if you're very serious about wanting muscle mass (that you don't care if your body changes forever) then you can do what many BB's do which is "blast and cruise". It's pretty self explanatory but you run a low dose of say T and anavar for example for most of the year and then blast other compounds when you feel like it. This way, when you hop off the heavy stuff your body won't drastically deflate like a balloon, you will slowly return close to your cruise baseline and even KEEP some gains from the heavy stuff.

 

[appeal]

so why would you run the cycle?

let's look at what is going to happen.

You inject T, your body changes, you build muscle etc and then your natural testosterone production shuts down.

You continue to pin until your cycle ends (6-12 weeks).

You finish cycle and start PCT.. you being to lose gains and WILL lose about 80-100% because your natural testosterone cannot support your new muscle mass.

You have fucked your endocrine system for what? 6-12 weeks of gains? not even life changing gains, you will still look mediocre compared to many lifters.

Instead, if you're very serious about wanting muscle mass (that you don't care if your body changes forever) then you can do what many BB's do which is "blast and cruise". It's pretty self explanatory but you run a low dose of say T and anavar for example for most of the year and then blast other compounds when you feel like it. This way, when you hop off the heavy stuff your body won't drastically deflate like a balloon, you will slowly return close to your cruise baseline and even KEEP some gains from the heavy stuff.

would u recomend a cycle in general? goal of building muscle mass while maintaining body fat.

ive done no reaseach into it as u can see, but i am interested in doing something go gain some muscle, even like a sarm cycle, which ik isnt respected or anything, but they do work. people say just do test etc, but i do feel that it is more extreme than sarms, tho idk

 

[ducksoover]

while maintaining body fat.

why on earth would you want to maintain bodyfat?

 

[appeal]

why on earth would you want to maintain bodyfat?

well ideally drop but i am pretty lean already

 

[ducksoover]

sarm cycle

SARMS still shut down your natural testosterone production

 

[appeal]

SARMS still shut down your natural testosterone production

supress, poeple dont get shut down normally

 

[Orc]

pct is never really needed

 

[ducksoover]

well ideally drop but i am pretty lean already

If you want to maximise growth I would take very low dose T (150mg test /week for example) and use higher dose of another compound, I recommend NPP which is the shorter ester of Deca and doesn't make you hold a lot of water. Obviously there are sides though.

150mg test + 400 NPP is a nice first cycle.

I like to keep test low to avoid high estrogen conversion. Many others like to keep it high.

 

[ducksoover]

supress, poeple dont get shut down normally

shut down/suppress, i use it synonymously

 

[appeal]

pct is never really needed

do u have an opinion on what is a good first cycle? i am aware u dont use.

 

[appeal]

If you want to maximise growth I would take very low dose T (150mg test /week for example) and use higher dose of another compound, I recommend NPP which is the shorter ester of Deca and doesn't make you hold a lot of water. Obviously there are sides though.

150mg test + 400 NPP is a nice first cycle.

I like to keep test low to avoid high estrogen conversion. Many others like to keep it high.

ill look into this cycle. any good sources of info?

what sides are we mainly talking about?

 

[ducksoover]

i am aware u dont use.

 

[meathead]

do u have an opinion on what is a good first cycle? i am aware u dont use.

go on r/steroids

most people are too retarded here dont take steroid advice from them

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[ducksoover]

any good sources of info?

theres hundreds of articles and sites out there, browsing BB forums is a good way too

what sides are we mainly talking about

dead dick, low or super high sex drive, anger issues, the normal stuff that comes with roids

 

[Rigged]

so why would you run the cycle?

let's look at what is going to happen.

You inject T, your body changes, you build muscle etc and then your natural testosterone production shuts down.

You continue to pin until your cycle ends (6-12 weeks).

You finish cycle and start PCT.. you being to lose gains and WILL lose about 80-100% because your natural testosterone cannot support your new muscle mass.

You have fucked your endocrine system for what? 6-12 weeks of gains? not even life changing gains, you will still look mediocre compared to many lifters.

Instead, if you're very serious about wanting muscle mass (that you don't care if your body changes forever) then you can do what many BB's do which is "blast and cruise". It's pretty self explanatory but you run a low dose of say T and anavar for example for most of the year and then blast other compounds when you feel like it. This way, when you hop off the heavy stuff your body won't drastically deflate like a balloon, you will slowly return close to your cruise baseline and even KEEP some gains from the heavy stuff.

Get a load of this guy, doesnt know what the fuck hes talking about

Ops bouta turn up as another statistic

 

[appeal]

t

Get a load of this guy, doesnt know what the fuck hes talking about

Ops bouta turn up as another statistic

tell me what u think best first cycle is

 

[Rigged]

t

tell me what u think best first cycle is

I mean the guy wasnt wrong about blast and cruise he was wrong about how a cycle works

Imo just test var
But people thing that test var is the only part of the cycle which is retarded since theres like 10 ancs u have to take to be safe

Or u can be a real man like me and take no ancs and hope u dont nuke

 

[meathead]

t

tell me what u think best first cycle is

Are u prone to baldness?

 

[Orc]

do u have an opinion on what is a good first cycle? i am aware u dont use.

just take 500 test and have an ai ready.

 

[meathead]

just take 500 test and have an ai ready.

yea do that

keep some other stuff on hand if ur prone to acne and baldness

 

[yuda]

Only test is good
If u want to push a bit harder
Test + anavar or test + primo

 

[ducksoover]

he was wrong about how a cycle works

"you're wrong but I won't explain why, anyways OP do this instead!"

 

[ducksoover]

yea do that

keep some other stuff on hand if ur prone to acne and baldness

orrr keep test very low and you will have lower estrogen and DHT conversion..which means lower sides... ever thought about that?

 

[Rigged]

"you're wrong but I won't explain why, anyways OP do this instead!"

I have cred + ive had to debate with niggas every day about shit for the past 2 years on this forum 90% of my posts is arguing with niggas, ima choose the tranquil life and stop arguing with people and stop falling for rage bait

 

[Rigged]

Also op, do not do what orc said, only test and an AI will fuck u over, just cause hes a genetic phenom who can run 30 grams of test and no ancilaries and be fine doesnt mean u should do that

 

[ducksoover]

I have cred + ive had to debate with niggas every day about shit for the past 2 years on this forum 90% of my posts is arguing with niggas, ima choose the tranquil life and stop arguing with people and stop falling for rage bait

still doesn't explain why

what a fucking retard

 

[yuda]

Use primo bro trust me
Its kinda expensive then others but its one of the best compounds

 

[Rigged]

still doesn't explain why

what a fucking retard

org debates take too much time especially when the user wont admit hes wrong, im down to debate u on the condition that if u cant think of an arguement and cant find proof for ur defense that u instantly admit ur wrong, i dont want to run another debate where the user spans the same shit over and over till i have to sleep

 

[ducksoover]

org debates take too much time especially when the user wont admit hes wrong, im down to debate u on the condition that if u cant think of an arguement and cant find proof for ur defense that u instantly admit ur wrong, i dont want to run another debate where the user spans the same shit over and over till i have to sleep

dude shut the fuck up and just explain where I've spread any misinformation

God I'm done with this shit forum full of narcy tiktok kids

 

[Rigged]

dude shut the fuck up and just explain where I've spread any misinformation

God I'm done with this shit forum full of narcy tiktok kids

Ive spent all my life on adderall memorizing everything ending up memorizing almost every field of science

But yes tiktok kid works just as fine

 

[Rigged]

dude shut the fuck up and just explain where I've spread any misinformation

God I'm done with this shit forum full of narcy tiktok kids

Dont worry tho ill reply to i just took 200 mg modafinil so before the anger issue sides kick in ill reply

 

[Jonas2k7]

pct is never really needed

Wrong, PCT greatly helps your body restore it's own endogenous testosterone production

The study you were referring to most likely is bullshit (HAARLEM study)

By inhibiting the estrogen in the brain you trick your body into releasing gonadotropins (LH and FSH) which are needed for testosterone production and spermatogenesis etc. Combining SERMs with HCG is another way for PCT. It directly stimulates the gonads with exogenous LH to produce test again. HMG also great but expensive (is exogenous LH and FSH)

You might feel good coming off cold turkey but this effect lasts only a few months because of the steroids taking a lot longer to leave the body than many people would expect

@Rigged fact check this

 

[Kelly Oubre Jr]

so why would you run the cycle?

let's look at what is going to happen.

You inject T, your body changes, you build muscle etc and then your natural testosterone production shuts down.

You continue to pin until your cycle ends (6-12 weeks).

You finish cycle and start PCT.. you being to lose gains and WILL lose about 80-100% because your natural testosterone cannot support your new muscle mass.

You have fucked your endocrine system for what? 6-12 weeks of gains? not even life changing gains, you will still look mediocre compared to many lifters.

Instead, if you're very serious about wanting muscle mass (that you don't care if your body changes forever) then you can do what many BB's do which is "blast and cruise". It's pretty self explanatory but you run a low dose of say T and anavar for example for most of the year and then blast other compounds when you feel like it. This way, when you hop off the heavy stuff your body won't drastically deflate like a balloon, you will slowly return close to your cruise baseline and even KEEP some gains from the heavy stuff.

0 knowledge

 

[Kelly Oubre Jr]

yes obviously

 

[Orc]

Wrong, PCT greatly helps your body restore it's own endogenous testosterone production

The study you were referring to most likely is bullshit (HAARLEM study)

only long term study on the subject btw, and it's conclusion is that pct only harms recovery.

there is zero evidence at all that pct does anything.

 

[Rigged]

so why would you run the cycle?

let's look at what is going to happen.

You inject T, your body changes, you build muscle etc and then your natural testosterone production shuts down.

The endo suppresio is from a negative feedback on the HPG, actually test and its motabolites supress GnRH from the hypo and LH and FSH from the pituitary, stops intratest production, now ur right that the supression does happen its very short, as im sure u know leydig cells and sertoli cells make sure of that, now idk why ud bring up pct and add supression, everyone knows the point of pct and hcg is to restore production by copying signals, so theres absolutely no reason to worry about supression here, its inevitable but making it seem like a full on “oh ur fucked” type of thing is absolute wrong

You continue to pin until your cycle ends (6-12 weeks).

Mm now ur ignoring myonuclear accretion, both test and its analogs recruite satellite cells that differentiate into myonucei, if u dont know what those r they just basically govern hypertrophy and they are permanent, and as they are permanent they dont reverse post cylcle meaning the capacity u gained during the cycle will be there long term, eeeven if a littlee bit of glycogen and water retention goes away u still keep the majority, ur assumption ignores our bodiesadaptations

You finish cycle and start PCT.. you being to lose gains and WILL lose about 80-100% because your natural testosterone cannot support your new muscle mass.

What come on man this endo 101, we both know and have seen posts on reddit that said u keep 75-85% post pct, now the reason those people posted that is because guess what its actually true , if fail regression that sounds like that persons too incompetent to be roiding

You have fucked your endocrine system for what? 6-12 weeks of gains? not even life changing gains, you will still look mediocre compared to many lifters.

Ohhh cmon man now ur just reaching here if anything u get healthier u get upregulated glucose regulation because of the GLUT4 translocation that happens and lower adiposity

I feel like ur knowledge is based on the assumption that body builders and their coaches know what theyre doing

Instead, if you're very serious about wanting muscle mass (that you don't care if your body changes forever) then you can do what many BB's do which is "blast and cruise". It's pretty self explanatory but you run a low dose of say T and anavar for example for most of the year and then blast other compounds when you feel like it. This way, when you hop off the heavy stuff your body won't drastically deflate like a balloon, you will slowly return close to your cruise baseline and even KEEP some gains from the heavy stuff.

 

[Rigged]

Wrong, PCT greatly helps your body restore it's own endogenous testosterone production

The study you were referring to most likely is bullshit (HAARLEM study)

By inhibiting the estrogen in the brain you trick your body into releasing gonadotropins (LH and FSH) which are needed for testosterone production and spermatogenesis etc. Combining SERMs with HCG is another way for PCT. It directly stimulates the gonads with exogenous LH to produce test again. HMG also great but expensive (is exogenous LH and FSH)

You might feel good coming off cold turkey but this effect lasts only a few months because of the steroids taking a lot longer to leave the body than many people would expect

@Rigged fact check this

Mb i was writing a report to the other guy

Also lmao i fucking love the harleem study i wont fact check what u wrote mb i have to reply to another dude rq, but the thing with the harleem study is that its absolutely correct long term

After the longest time being 2 years u will recover all the harleem study proves is that if u wait long enough ull always recover, its not an excuse to not pct as much as i wish it was, so ur absolutely correct, but orc is right in the fact that pct isnt needed, if ur planning to roid again soon, or never roid again, but its needed for gains since the 2 years ur supressed isnt fun

Again orc is a lucky bastard who can run a cycle with no ancillaries and be fine hes not the baseline

Honestly i could easily argue both sides and win either way, the harleem study can be used to support orcs arguement, the issue is that the harleem study was done by retards

 

[Rigged]

Wrong, PCT greatly helps your body restore it's own endogenous testosterone production

The study you were referring to most likely is bullshit (HAARLEM study)

By inhibiting the estrogen in the brain you trick your body into releasing gonadotropins (LH and FSH) which are needed for testosterone production and spermatogenesis etc. Combining SERMs with HCG is another way for PCT. It directly stimulates the gonads with exogenous LH to produce test again. HMG also great but expensive (is exogenous LH and FSH)

You might feel good coming off cold turkey but this effect lasts only a few months because of the steroids taking a lot longer to leave the body than many people would expect

@Rigged fact check this

Edited my reply ^

 

[Rigged]

only long term study on the subject btw, and it's conclusion is that pct only harms recovery.

there is zero evidence at all that pct does anything.

Well pct works, the debate isnt if pct works is if its worth spending the money on pct when no pct could work too, ofc the answer here is yes, u need to pct, sadly not all of us can recover like u, actually id bet money that ur in the top .0001%

 

[Rigged]

0 knowledge

0 ball knowledge we all know birds da goat

 

[Kelly Oubre Jr]

0 ball knowledge we all know birds da goat

sister fucker take

 

[Orc]

Well pct works, the debate isnt if pct works is if its worth spending the money on pct when no pct could work too, ofc the answer here is yes, u need to pct, sadly not all of us can recover like u, actually id bet money that ur in the top .0001%

if it works then how come no one's ever been able to prove it.


it's been decades of people claiming this shit and not one piece of evidence.

 

[Rigged]

sister fucker take

Nigga fuck ur goat and fuck the sixers

 

[Kelly Oubre Jr]

Nigga fuck ur goat and fuck the sixers

philly winning the chip this year watch

kelly oubre mvp + fmvp 2025

 

[Rigged]

if it works then how come no one's ever been able to prove it.

hate to say this but this is one of those “ur either ignorant or completely missinformed” theres proofs and theres always been proof, i dont want to turn this into another random debate so ill just send the studiess

Outcomes of clomiphene citrate treatment in young hypogonadal men - PubMed

• Long-term follow-up of CC treatment for HG shows that it appears to be an effective and safe alternative to testosterone supplementation in men wishing to preserve their fertility.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Clomiphene Citrate Treatment as an Alternative Therapeutic Approach for Male Hypogonadism: Mechanisms and Clinical Implications - PMC

Male hypogonadism, which is characterized by low testosterone levels, has a significant impact on male sexual function, overall health, and fertility. Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is the conventional treatment for this condition, but it ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I absolutely get where ur coming from tho man, i dont think u need to worry about this while its true we need pct u dont so u should be happy with that and do ur own thing, but the issue is ur telling people who unlike u will need pct that pct isnt needed will just fuck people up, personally idc what happens to people on here but still

it's been decades of people claiming this shit and not one piece of evidence.

 

[Rigged]

philly winning the chip this year watch

kelly oubre mvp + fmvp 2025

What the fuck nigga bryce james finna have 20 rings before that becomes a possibility

 

[Orc]

hate to say this but this is one of those “ur either ignorant or completely missinformed” theres proofs and theres always been proof, i dont want to turn this into another random debate so ill just send the studiess

Outcomes of clomiphene citrate treatment in young hypogonadal men - PubMed

• Long-term follow-up of CC treatment for HG shows that it appears to be an effective and safe alternative to testosterone supplementation in men wishing to preserve their fertility.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Clomiphene Citrate Treatment as an Alternative Therapeutic Approach for Male Hypogonadism: Mechanisms and Clinical Implications - PMC

Male hypogonadism, which is characterized by low testosterone levels, has a significant impact on male sexual function, overall health, and fertility. Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is the conventional treatment for this condition, but it ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I absolutely get where ur coming from tho man, i dont think u need to worry about this while its true we need pct u dont so u should be happy with that and do ur own thing, but the issue is ur telling people who unlike u will need pct that pct isnt needed will just fuck people up, personally idc what happens to people on here but still

these studies are in hypogonadal men almost no one ends up that badly after cycling test only.

and there's no placebo group to compare it to in both studies.

 

[Rigged]

these studies are in hypogonadal men almost no one ends up that badly after cycling test only.

The cause of suppression wouldnt change how the MOA works, since the goal is stimulating the HPG it doesnt really matter weather its in HG or not, Clo and HCG are made to reverse the exact same suppression that from AAS use either way

and there's no placebo group to compare it to in both studies.

If ur tryna say that recovery “just happens naturally” provide evidence that unassisted recovery is equally effective post cycle, u cant because the harleem study was the only one, and its very missinterpreted

Also for the placebo point theres baseline - post treament comparisons, ignoring the studies just cause theres no placebo tests for obvious ethical reasons, is a bad way to think

 

[Kelly Oubre Jr]

What the fuck nigga bryce james finna have 20 rings before that becomes a possibility

bryce, bronny and lebron combined are nothing compared to kelly oubre