Do you really need to lift heavy at all ? (is it necessary)

[Ceamce]

I'm currently doing 5/3/1 Boring But Big variant.
Slow but steady

 

[VeryFuglyNiyguhs]

Your drug intake + genes(muscle insertions and frame) matters more for physique than your heavy lifts.

Mike Thurston can barely push 308 for 2 reps.


He only benched 220 for 4 reps. @ around the 10 minute mark he struggles to bench 308.

 

[randomuser2407]

Also no matter what you do you wont look huge depending on your frame and insertions, I know plenty of Asians who lift blow me out of the water in terms of strength but aren't super large dude to their frame and insertions while alot have been saying I look huge recently despite only recently starting lifting and gaining 20 ibs of fat and muscle.

No, the main reason why some people are much stronger than they are muscular is because of genetics for muscle building vs strength gain, not insertions. Insertions only consist of a very small difference that is only really noticed in bodybuilding competitions or by bodybuilding fanatics.

I kind of agree with this but only to a certain extent. I don't think you need to be doing huge numbers to get big and look like you lift. I only think you need to do a weight that is fairly heavy but you are comfortable with.

Yes, the key is to use a weight that you are comfortable with while pushing yourself either to muscular failure or close to it. So what matters most is not the strength number but rather how close you are to your genetic potential.
The main reason why people use strength standards is because most people have similar genetic potential so they have similar strength standards, and we know this based on charts and data from people who have been lifting weights for decades and what they have achieved without drugs.

The main reason why progressive overload (adding weight to the bar) is essential to muscle growth is because, eventually, you reach a point where the weight you are using is no longer challenging, and when that happens, the body doesn't adapt anymore, so it stops building muscle. Muscle growth is essentially a side effect to muscular adaptations that happen when you do resistance training. The body adapts by building muscle mass, which increases strength.
So, if you just do a bunch of reps with the same weight year after year, you will not gain any muscle, because your body doesn't need to adapt, because it has enough muscle mass to lift that weight.

As for high reps vs low reps, it really does not matter as long as the total amount of volume is enough to make progress.
The main problem with very high rep ranges though (like 16-20) is that your form is more likely to break down, you are likely to make errors when counting reps, and you will be limited by cardiovascular endurance and mental fatigue, which is why it is best to stay in the 5-10 rep range.

I know plenty of Asians who lift blow me out of the water in terms of strength but aren't super large dude to their frame and insertions while alot have been saying I look huge recently despite only recently starting lifting and gaining 20 ibs of fat and muscle.

No, the reason why they don't look super large is because they have better leverages for the lifts they are doing, and they have worse genetics for building muscle. For example, in my case, I can add weight on the deadlift very easily and it's the same with rows, but with the bench press, the overhead press and the squat, my progress is much slower. This is due to the fact that I have long limbs and a short torso, which makes the range of motion but longer on pushing exercises and much shorter on pulling exercises (except for vertical pulls).

Also, unless you took steroids, you didn't gain 20 lbs of muscle as a beginner. It takes at least 1 year of serious training to gain 20 lbs of muscle, and you wouldn't have gained that by doing fluff and pump workouts but by getting really strong at the main compound movements. So, most of what you gained was fat, glycogen and water weight, not muscle mass.

One thing that many people fail to realize is that the taller you are, the more fat you can gain without actually looking fat.
I am 6 foot 4 and when I was at 138 lbs, people said I was skinny, but it was the same at 160 lbs, at 170 lbs and even now at 200 lbs, people still think I look skinny, even with a shirt off. But I didn't gain 40 lbs of muscle, most of it was fat, but I don't look fat.

 

[randomuser2407]

Your drug intake + genes(muscle insertions and frame) matters more for physique than your heavy lifts.

Mike Thurston can barely push 308 for 2 reps.


He only benched 220 for 4 reps. @ around the 10 minute mark he struggles to bench 308.

The difference is that he is not natural.

Of course he doesn't need to get strong, the drugs will give him the muscle mass no matter what.

The 3 most important factors for building muscle are:

1) Testosterone levels and drug use

2) Training stress (aka tonnage) + proper exercise selection

3) Recovery (Diet and sleep)


However, you cannot get enough training stress without getting stronger, because if you don't train harder than last time, then your body won't adapt.

The reason why muscle and strength are directly linked is because to train harder than last time, you need to do more reps or add more weight and both of these things mean gaining strength.

As for the strength standards, they are a good indication of your level as a lifter for people who have average genetics. People who are genetically gifted for a lift will be able to get much stronger. The important thing here is not to aim for specific strength standards but to aim to be as strong as you can be to be as big as you can be, or at least to sculpt your body with that in mind. So if you manage to build big enough legs with a 315 lb squat, you don't need to go for a 405 lb squat unless you want more size. So in the end, it mostly comes down to personal preference, but you cannot separate size and strength, they go hand in hand. Even people on steroids will benefit from getting stronger if they are not injecting drugs that only focus on strength.

 

[randomuser2407]

As a newbie, could I lift gain muscle while losing bodyfat?

If you are a complete beginner and you are overweight or obese based on BMI (not ab visibility), then yes.

Also, if you are not overweight or obese based on BMI, you don't need to cut because you will look better by adding 20-30 lbs of muscle because cutting would make you look malnourished and you wouldn't look good.

To have a muscular ripped physique, you need to build muscle first, and then lose fat. The only people who need to lose fat first are those who are at an overweight or obese BMI.

Also, for bulking, it is best to limit excessive weight gain by only gaining 0.5 lbs per week, this is done by using a very small caloric surplus, and by doing this you will gain mostly muscle but it will be a slow process, but it will remove the need for cutting later on, so you'll make faster progress than most guys who switch between cut and bulk all the time.

 

[qsabathi]

No, the main reason why some people are much stronger than they are muscular is because of genetics for muscle building vs strength gain, not insertions. Insertions only consist of a very small difference that is only really noticed in bodybuilding competitions or by bodybuilding fanatics.

Yes, the key is to use a weight that you are comfortable with while pushing yourself either to muscular failure or close to it. So what matters most is not the strength number but rather how close you are to your genetic potential.
The main reason why people use strength standards is because most people have similar genetic potential so they have similar strength standards, and we know this based on charts and data from people who have been lifting weights for decades and what they have achieved without drugs.

The main reason why progressive overload (adding weight to the bar) is essential to muscle growth is because, eventually, you reach a point where the weight you are using is no longer challenging, and when that happens, the body doesn't adapt anymore, so it stops building muscle. Muscle growth is essentially a side effect to muscular adaptations that happen when you do resistance training. The body adapts by building muscle mass, which increases strength.
So, if you just do a bunch of reps with the same weight year after year, you will not gain any muscle, because your body doesn't need to adapt, because it has enough muscle mass to lift that weight.

As for high reps vs low reps, it really does not matter as long as the total amount of volume is enough to make progress.
The main problem with very high rep ranges though (like 16-20) is that your form is more likely to break down, you are likely to make errors when counting reps, and you will be limited by cardiovascular endurance and mental fatigue, which is why it is best to stay in the 5-10 rep range.



No, the reason why they don't look super large is because they have better leverages for the lifts they are doing, and they have worse genetics for building muscle. For example, in my case, I can add weight on the deadlift very easily and it's the same with rows, but with the bench press, the overhead press and the squat, my progress is much slower. This is due to the fact that I have long limbs and a short torso, which makes the range of motion but longer on pushing exercises and much shorter on pulling exercises (except for vertical pulls).

Also, unless you took steroids, you didn't gain 20 lbs of muscle as a beginner. It takes at least 1 year of serious training to gain 20 lbs of muscle, and you wouldn't have gained that by doing fluff and pump workouts but by getting really strong at the main compound movements. So, most of what you gained was fat, glycogen and water weight, not muscle mass.

One thing that many people fail to realize is that the taller you are, the more fat you can gain without actually looking fat.
I am 6 foot 4 and when I was at 138 lbs, people said I was skinny, but it was the same at 160 lbs, at 170 lbs and even now at 200 lbs, people still think I look skinny, even with a shirt off. But I didn't gain 40 lbs of muscle, most of it was fat, but I don't look fat.

I said I gained 20 pounds of mixed weight. I am also 6’4 and I still think I look skinny at 215. I probably won’t look like a brick house until I am 230-240. You didn’t gain much muscle from dead’s and rows despite significant progress? I can say my rear delts and back have gained a significant amount of muscle despite my leverages. You can have a lot of muscle despite your leverages.

 

[randomuser2407]

I said I gained 20 pounds of mixed weight. I am also 6’4 and I still think I look skinny at 215. I probably won’t look like a brick house until I am 230-240. You didn’t gain much muscle from dead’s and rows despite significant progress? I can say my rear delts and back have gained a significant amount of muscle despite my leverages. You can have a lot of muscle despite your leverages.

No, I gained some muscle mass obviously. My legs and glutes got bigger and because of this, the jeans I wore in 2020 no longer fit me and it's not because of the waist but because my lower body is bigger, although my waist is also bigger.

When I say that most of what I gained wasn't muscle, I mean that I still don't look like I lift, and I still have weak numbers on the bench press and the overhead press. But the yates row and the deadlifts are my best exercises, due to my leverages.

I can yates row 155 lbs for 8 reps and I can deadlift 245 lbs for 8 reps. But I can only bench press 112.5 lbs for 7 reps, and overhead press 87.5 lbs for 7 reps and squat 160 lbs for 8 reps. This is because of my leverages.

 

[Deleted member 15827]

Nice Geoffrey is becoming well known

 

[qsabathi]

No, I gained some muscle mass obviously. My legs and glutes got bigger and because of this, the jeans I wore in 2020 no longer fit me and it's not because of the waist but because my lower body is bigger, although my waist is also bigger.

When I say that most of what I gained wasn't muscle, I mean that I still don't look like I lift, and I still have weak numbers on the bench press and the overhead press. But the yates row and the deadlifts are my best exercises, due to my leverages.

I can yates row 155 lbs for 8 reps and I can deadlift 245 lbs for 8 reps. But I can only bench press 112.5 lbs for 7 reps, and overhead press 87.5 lbs for 7 reps and squat 160 lbs for 8 reps. This is because of my leverages.

Ah I see. I feel like your squat should be much higher due to your deadlift though. How are you only benching 112.5 ibs? I also have very long arms and while I do agree bench Is probably the hardest compound exercise for taller people there is no way you can't do more.

 

[randomuser2407]

Nice Geoffrey is becoming well known

I have been subscribed to his channel since around April 2021.

 

[Deleted member 15827]

I have been subscribed to his channel since around April 2021.

Ye he's good. Made me consider recomping instead of bulking the first one year or else I would have become fat fuck

 

[randomuser2407]

Ah I see. I feel like your squat should be much higher due to your deadlift though. How are you only benching 112.5 ibs? I also have very long arms and while I do agree bench Is probably the hardest compound exercise for taller people there is no way you can't do more.

Because I have long legs and long arms, I am at the disadvantage on the squat and on the bench press, because the range of motion for me is much longer. My long legs limit me on the squat and my long arms limit me on the bench press. Meanwhile, my long arms and long legs shorten the range of motion on deadlifts and rows.

 

[randomuser2407]

Ye he's good. Made me consider recomping instead of bulking the first one year or else I would have become fat fuck

Recomping never worked for me. Even now at 200 lbs, I still have to lean bulk to make gains, otherwise, I stay stuck at the same weight.

 

[Deleted member 15827]

Recomping never worked for me. Even now at 200 lbs, I still have to lean bulk to make gains, otherwise, I stay stuck at the same weight.

Eating at maintenance. Ye I don't count calories so I might have been in a slight surplus but still I ate just enough for optimal muscle growth

 

[Deleted member 15827]

Recomping never worked for me. Even now at 200 lbs, I still have to lean bulk to make gains, otherwise, I stay stuck at the same weight.

What's your frequency

 

[VeryFuglyNiyguhs]

The difference is that he is not natural.

Of course he doesn't need to get strong, the drugs will give him the muscle mass no matter what.

The 3 most important factors for building muscle are:

1) Testosterone levels and drug use

2) Training stress (aka tonnage) + proper exercise selection

3) Recovery (Diet and sleep)


However, you cannot get enough training stress without getting stronger, because if you don't train harder than last time, then your body won't adapt.

The reason why muscle and strength are directly linked is because to train harder than last time, you need to do more reps or add more weight and both of these things mean gaining strength.

As for the strength standards, they are a good indication of your level as a lifter for people who have average genetics. People who are genetically gifted for a lift will be able to get much stronger. The important thing here is not to aim for specific strength standards but to aim to be as strong as you can be to be as big as you can be, or at least to sculpt your body with that in mind. So if you manage to build big enough legs with a 315 lb squat, you don't need to go for a 405 lb squat unless you want more size. So in the end, it mostly comes down to personal preference, but you cannot separate size and strength, they go hand in hand. Even people on steroids will benefit from getting stronger if they are not injecting drugs that only focus on strength.

All I get from your posts are walls of text from a skinnyfat guy who masturbates to Mark Rippetoe, Meidhi, and Jason Blaha.

 

[Foreverbrad]

Studies shown hypertrophy response is roughly similar up to 30 reps. If you prefer to do 30 reps at 50% 1RM instead of 10 reps at 75% 1RM it's up to you. The key thing is you always train to failure, and that you are challenging yourself increasingly over time.

 

[randomuser2407]

All I get from your posts are walls of text from a skinnyfat guy who masturbates to Mark Rippetoe, Meidhi, and Jason Blaha.

I'm at 205 lbs now and I haven't gotten fatter at all so most of it is muscle mass.

It's just that, because of my height and long insertions, it will take a long time before I look really muscular because the longer a muscle is, the less big it will look. I have long limbs and a short torso so my biggest muscles are my back and my chest.

Also, most guys who are not even at the intermediate level will look skinny fat, no matter how much they cut.

I know I have gained muscle mass because when I look at my measurements, I see a big difference.

My old slim fit jeans from 2020 that I wore in that picture on the right no longer fit me because my legs and glutes got much bigger from the squats and deadlifts.

I just started training consistently in late January 2022, and I spent 2 weeks cutting (making no strength progress during that 2 weeks).

So, in 1 month and a half of bulking this is the progress that I made:

February 1st 2022:

Overhead Press 70 lbs for 8 reps
Bench press 90 lbs for 9 reps
Yates Rows 110 lbs for 11 reps
Squats 125 lbs for 9 reps
Deadlifts 185 lbs for 8 reps


April 4th 2022:

Overhead Press 87.5 lbs for 7 reps
Bench Press 112.5 lbs for 7 reps
Yates Rows 155 lbs for 8 reps
Squats 160 lbs for 8 reps
Deadlifts 245 lbs for 8 reps


The main reason why I have only started being consistent with my training very recently is because I have a home gym now, and ever since I stopped taking my ADHD meds, I have been relying on lifting weights to get mental energy and improve my ability to focus to treat my ADHD naturally and it works.

Also, the reason why I am getting much faster progress on my deadlifts and rows is because of my leverages (long limbs, short torso) which shorten the range of motion on those 2 lifts but lengthen the range of motion on every other exercise. This is why my bench press sucks and why it is lower than my yates row. And, I do all those exercises with perfect form without cheating.

 

[randomuser2407]

Studies shown hypertrophy response is roughly similar up to 30 reps. If you prefer to do 30 reps at 50% 1RM instead of 10 reps at 75% 1RM it's up to you. The key thing is you always train to failure, and that you are challenging yourself increasingly over time.

 

[reputation]

Doesn't lifting heavier then your bodyweight cause stress on your ligaments and cartillage ? I'm pretty sure your already strong if you can bench press,squat and deadlift your own bodyweight. What do you guys think ?

Enough weight + high volume = muscle growth

progressive overload + low-high volume = strength gain

 

[Tom Jones]

At least some of sessions should emnphasise strength imo. Being strong is a very good thing.

 

[Deleted member 18849]

It has been shown that the post workout testosterone spikes from close %s to 100 - PR are higher the higher the said % is in a given range.

So it's a double edged sword. Strength is an objective benefit alone (if you're doing MA training f.e. even better) but the lifting close to RM is riskier than volume training.

 

[Yellowskies]

Doesn't lifting heavier then your bodyweight cause stress on your ligaments and cartillage ? I'm pretty sure your already strong if you can bench press,squat and deadlift your own bodyweight. What do you guys think ?

If u just want aestethics you dont need heavy weights whatsoever

Medium weight that don’t sacrifice perfect form, high sets in the 6-15 rep range with focus on mind/muscle and pump is the formula for me. And very high workout frequency for naturals.