Does free will exist? (Hint: no)

[Yellowskies]

rationally we incels know (on paper) everything we need to know to do better

What happens then is disconnect between thought and behaviour

Does free will even exist in any meaningful extent?

I think we can alter our behaviour 1-2 % but we are deeply set genetically to act in our ways (including drives, needs and the entire social aspect of being human).

 

[Tom Jones]

No libertarian fre will does not exist. We are products of nature

 

[Yellowskies]

No libertarian fre will does not exist. We are products of nature

Yes, we will basically beehive the same way from early adulthood to old age, which changes only pertaining to environmental changes and biological aging

So if u havent had girlfriends already.. likely u will not have them ever

Lol

 

[Deleted member 1901]

There is 0% free will. It is illogical and an illusion. Everything that happens is a result of the previous environment. If you restarted the universe, it would end up exactly the same right now. Nothing is random, not even in quantum physics. It is just not predictable/understood. You make decisions based on stimulation input into your brain, and then how it processes that information.

 

[Harold O'brien]

It seems to me successful people like the idea of free will and unsuccessful people don't like the idea of free will.

The mind being an epiphenomenon is refuted by evolutionary theory. If it does not serve a practical function it would have been selected against over the course of millions of years. But the opposite seems to have occurred.

I used to be a firm believer in no free will but now I'm not quite sure. On the one hand I do think consciousness is a fundamental property of nature. But it is also important to acknowledge the incredible power of the subconscious mind.

 

[Yellowskies]

There is 0% free will. It is illogical and an illusion. Everything that happens is a result of the previous environment. If you restarted the universe, it would end up exactly the same right now. Nothing is random, not even in quantum physics. It is just not predictable/understood. You make decisions based on stimulation input into your brain, and then how it processes that information.

People in general do not know this

Imagine going to vote and thinking you have ”power”

 

[Yellowskies]

It seems to me successful people like the idea of free will and unsuccessful people don't like the idea of free will.

The mind being an epiphenomenon is refuted by evolutionary theory. If it does not serve a practical function it would have been selected against over the course of millions of years. But the opposite seems to have occurred.

I used to be a firm believer in no free will but now I'm not quite sure. On the one hand I do think consciousness is a fundamental property of nature. But it is also important to acknowledge the incredible power of the subconscious mind.

I’m somewhat successful but I think my success is mostly a reflection of my looks and my brain wiring and intelligence

I think art/creativity is the closest to pure will and independent thought, even though art is very influenced by environment.

 

[Sociobiology]

How do you even define free will? The notion of free will is greater than what our minds are able to conceive. Humans brains are designed to function on certainty and reliability which automatically biases us towards determinism (although I'm not saying it is an incorrect position). Is it possible that the possibility of free will exist except the nature of our minds stop us from accessing it?

 

[Stopping@Nothing19]

There is 0% free will. It is illogical and an illusion. Everything that happens is a result of the previous environment. If you restarted the universe, it would end up exactly the same right now. Nothing is random, not even in quantum physics. It is just not predictable/understood. You make decisions based on stimulation input into your brain, and then how it processes that information.

how can you prove that the information going into your brain is predetermined?

 

[Yellowskies]

How do you even define free will? The notion of free will is greater than what our minds are able to conceive. Humans brains are designed to function on certainty and reliability which automatically biases us towards determinism (although I'm not saying it is an incorrect position). Is it possible that the possibility of free will exist except the nature of our minds stop us from accessing it?

Free will exists as in we do choose.. but we choose according to our nature and according to information

So what appears as free will is a choice that is made to always maximize dopamine levels

Trippy

 

[Harold O'brien]

Free will exists as in we do choose.. but we choose according to our nature and according to information

So what appears as free will is a choice that is made to always maximize dopamine levels

Trippy

but don't we have some control over our nature?

 

[Danish_Retard]

Hasn't the idea of "free" will been challenged for a decade now because of brain imaging?

On several different levels, from neurotransmitters through neuron firing rates to overall activity, the brain "ramp up" before movements. This image depicts the readiness potential, a ramping-up activity measured using EEG. The onset of readiness potential the begins before the onset of a conscious intention or urge to act. Some have argued that this indicates the brain unconsciously commits to a decision before consciousness awareness.

Personally I don't see any reason for us having free will, everything we have ever observed seem to follow predictable models, (though we haven't figured out some) and we know that the brain is physical, and sending electrical signals. There's nothing that indicates it shouldn't behave deterministically.

 

[Sociobiology]

but don't we have some control over our nature?

The problem with free will is a referencing problem.

How do you define the self?
How do you define choice?
How do you define free will?

The way in which you answer these questions will determine which side of the fence you are on, which is determined by your life perspective.

If you have had certain life experiences that bias you to free will you will act in a way that indicates that you have free will regardless of if it is accurate to the scientific paradigm.

The big point here to recognise is that your personal experience doesn't need science to validate itself. You can not directly observe science, it is in fact, a web of concept, ideas and memes rolled into one discipline. When you realise that we are pretty much making up science as we go you can understand that they are unforeseen factors at play which affects the free will debate that science needs to discover.

 

[Harold O'brien]

The problem with free will is a referencing problem.

How do you define the self?
How do you define choice?
How do you define free will?

The way in which you answer these questions will determine which side of the fence you are on, which is determined by your life perspective.

legit it's all just a language problem and language is made up bullshit

things just are (but expressed without use of language)

 

[looksmaxxed]

no free will. all thoughts are already predictable and accounted for based on the construction and behavior of the brain. when someone chooses to go against his nature, that's just his genetics making him difficult to live with.

 

[Sociobiology]

legit it's all just a language problem and language is made up bullshit

things just are (but expressed without use of language)

Indeed it's why empiricism is so useful. Language has inbuilt biases which hinder the pursuit of truth.

 

[Harold O'brien]

Indeed it's why empiricism is so useful. Language has inbuilt biases which hinder the pursuit of truth.

empiricism is equally flawed we have no reason to trust our senses

 

[Sociobiology]

Hasn't the idea of "free" will been challenged for a decade now because of brain imaging?

View attachment 1697732
On several different levels, from neurotransmitters through neuron firing rates to overall activity, the brain "ramp up" before movements. This image depicts the readiness potential, a ramping-up activity measured using EEG. The onset of readiness potential the begins before the onset of a conscious intention or urge to act. Some have argued that this indicates the brain unconsciously commits to a decision before consciousness awareness.

Personally I don't see any reason for us having free will, everything we have ever observed seem to follow predictable models, (though we haven't figured out some) and we know that the brain is physical, and sending electrical signals. There's nothing that indicates it shouldn't behave deterministically.

Can you help me break down this some more?

What this graph is telling me is that we ruminate on things we plan to do for a little while before we actually do them.

 

[Sociobiology]

empiricism is equally flawed we have no reason to trust our senses

Although not perfect. I disagree that it is equally flawed.

 

[Danish_Retard]

Can you help me break down this some more?

What this graph is telling me is that we ruminate on things we plan to do for a little while before we actually do them.

That's just it, we don't ruminate on it. Before we even know that we want to do something the brain has increased activity.

Meaning that whatever we have decided to do has been decided by our brain long before we even know that we want to do it.
But they explain it better in the study

An accumulator model for spontaneous neural activity prior to self-initiated movement

A gradual buildup of neuronal activity known as the “readiness potential” reliably precedes voluntary self-initiated movements, in the average time locked to movement onset. This buildup is presumed to reflect the final stages of planning ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Whether that shows free will depends on what you mean with free will, some notions of free will believe we need the dualistic values of both hard determinism and compatibilism

 

[autistic_tendencies]

Maybe some men aren’t meant to reproduce because nature already knows you will end up dead beat dad creating low quality offspring

 

[wollet2]

It seems to me successful people like the idea of free will and unsuccessful people don't like the idea of free will.

The mind being an epiphenomenon is refuted by evolutionary theory. If it does not serve a practical function it would have been selected against over the course of millions of years. But the opposite seems to have occurred.

I used to be a firm believer in no free will but now I'm not quite sure. On the one hand I do think consciousness is a fundamental property of nature. But it is also important to acknowledge the incredible power of the subconscious mind.

its bad self marketing for pros to say its my genetics and not my hard work / mindset etc

 

[wollet2]

.