Does isotretinoin mog tretinoin

[benignice]

There are a couple studies out there that have evaluated the effects of low-dose isotretinoin (Accutane) on collagen production. On average, study participants who took isotretinoin (60 mg/week) for 8 weeks (I think) exhibited a 50-60% increase in collagen levels. For someone who's 30+, that's hugely significant, and if the study results can be extrapolated to those of us in the general population, then it means that low-dose isotretinoin could be the most effective treatment available for boosting collagen levels.

@benignice If I recall correctly, I think you said you weren't really convinced by these studies (even though they weren't funded by the manufacturer or whatever)... ?

I'm not yet convinced that the benefits outweigh the potential drawbacks.
Also something to bare in mind is that a lot of these studies (in order to see much difference) are conducted on older people who didn't have the benefit of the knowledge that we now have re sun exposure, topical retinoid use, etc (even just going back to the 80s and 90s) and therefore are now likely dealing with worse skin (as a population) than we will.

 

[Deleted member 3043]

I'm not yet convinced that the benefits outweigh the potential drawbacks.
Also something to bare in mind is that a lot of these studies (in order to see much difference) are conducted on older people who didn't have the benefit of the knowledge that we now have re sun exposure, topical retinoid use, etc (even just going back to the 80s and 90s) and therefore are now likely dealing with worse skin (as a population) than we will.

which percentage of retinoid to buy and with which precautions if you believe the pros outcome the cons ?

 

[RichardSpencel]

NEVER FORGET THIS GOAT POST

"Muh lifespan"

Shut the fuck up, pussy. Do you want skin that mogs a newborn you cuck? Then start popping those pills.

 

[benignice]

which percentage of retinoid to buy and with which precautions if you believe the pros outcome the cons ?

I think retinoids are great- that question was about isotretinoin which is a whole 'nother ball game.
Are you asking about topical retinoids or isotretinoin?

 

[Deleted member 3043]

I think retinoids are great- that question was about isotretinoin which is a whole 'nother ball game.
Are you asking about topical retinoids or isotretinoin?

retinoid tbh since i won't go for doubtful things as of now.

 

[benignice]

retinoid tbh since i won't go for doubtful things as of now.

So "retinoid" is the class of compounds which includes the likes of retinol, retinaldehyde, tretinoin, adapalene, isotretinoin, tazarotene, hydroxypinacolone retinoate, retinyl palmitate, etc.
The drugs in there are: tretinoin, isotretinoin, tazarotene and adapalene (although adapalene is now OTC in the US).
The others I mentioned are the kind of thing you're going to find in a cosmetic product.
Actually, the retinoid section I wrote in here should explain things more- let me know if you've got any other questions after that.

 

[SurgerySoon]

I'm not yet convinced that the benefits outweigh the potential drawbacks.
Also something to bare in mind is that a lot of these studies (in order to see much difference) are conducted on older people who didn't have the benefit of the knowledge that we now have re sun exposure, topical retinoid use, etc (even just going back to the 80s and 90s) and therefore are now likely dealing with worse skin (as a population) than we will.

That's a good point, but at the same time, would the fact that a study participant didn't take care of their skin (in terms of preventing sun exposure, etc.) when they were younger actually influence their physiologic response to taking isotretinoin in terms of collagen production increase? In other words, their fibroblasts don't have any way of "knowing" about their history of skincare (or lack thereof), right?

BTW, if you read the studies, the researchers state that the subjects reported no side effects at the 60 mg/wk dose. I agree that that doesn't mean there aren't any risks involved with taking the drug, but at the same time, how likely is it that 2 or 3 "cycles" per year of taking low-dose isotretinoin for 8 weeks at a time will cause lasting damage, especially considering that the study participants didn't report any side effects at all?

I guess I'm just approaching this from the perspective of someone who is 30+, has aged noticeably over the last couple of years, and is intrigued by the potential to boost my collagen levels to such a significant extent that I could look literally several years younger (even if just temporarily).

 

[benignice]

That's a good point, but at the same time, would the fact that a study participant didn't take care of their skin (in terms of preventing sun exposure, etc.) when they were younger actually influence their physiologic response to taking isotretinoin in terms of collagen production increase? In other words, their fibroblasts don't have any way of "knowing" about their history of skincare (or lack thereof), right?

I have no idea as to the influence that previous "abuse" may have- my point was more that our skin will be significantly less damaged as we age and therefore these kinds of treatments may not be quite as necessary.

BTW, if you read the studies, the researchers state that the subjects reported no side effects at the 60 mg/wk dose. I agree that that doesn't mean there aren't any risks involved with taking the drug, but at the same time, how likely is it that 2 or 3 "cycles" per year of taking low-dose isotretinoin for 8 weeks at a time will cause lasting damage, especially considering that the study participants didn't report any side effects at all?

Yeah, thats fair- I'm just coming at it from a point of view where I personally know people on doses of 10mg/day that absolutely do see negative side effects (even within a short time frame) so those kind of dosages are definitely not outside the range where adverse effects are seen.

I guess I'm just approaching this from the perspective of someone who is 30+, has aged noticeably over the last couple of years, and is intrigued by the potential to boost my collagen levels to such a significant extent that I could look literally several years younger (even if just temporarily).

Again, absolutely fair- talk to a derm and see if you could swing it in that case. Although correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not sure that those studies said that you could end up looking several years younger?

 

[SurgerySoon]

I have no idea as to the influence that previous "abuse" may have- my point was more that our skin will be significantly less damaged as we age and therefore these kinds of treatments may not be quite as necessary.

Yeah, thats fair- I'm just coming at it from a point of view where I personally know people on doses of 10mg/day that absolutely do see negative side effects (even within a short time frame) so those kind of dosages are definitely not outside the range where adverse effects are seen.

Again, absolutely fair- talk to a derm and see if you could swing it in that case. Although correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not sure that those studies said that you could end up looking several years younger?

You're right, the studies didn't say anything about how much younger someone on low-dose isotretinoin could actually end up looking; I just assumed that over time (I.e., after several cycles) someone would be likely to look at least somewhat younger since the loss of collagen/elastin content that most people experience during their late 20s/early 30s tends to be the primary independent variable responsible for making them look objectively "early 30s" as opposed to someone who is still potentially in their 20s. Like you said, I guess it just comes down to an individual assessment of risk vs. reward and how comfortable someone is with the possibility that the "risk" side of the equation could potentially outweigh the "reward" side.

 

[badmantier]

accutane has more sides but probably more effective, which makes sense cuz it's way more intensive. Accutane should only be for people w/ severe cystic acne, who have tried the topicals and antibiotics already. Retin-A is just an ointment, and while it has sides too they're not nearly as bad as accutane. People w/ even mild acne can take Retin-A, and there are plenty of ppl who have clear skin but use Retin-A to maintain their youthful skin. You can't really say one mogs the other imo cuz they're for different situations

 

[Doomerteen]

FUCK ACCUTANE, SON.

It destroys oily skin temporarily. After you stop taking it your skin will be oily again if you had oily skin, at least that's from my experience.

That is why you need to take it for a number of cycles, so that testosterone glands in the face can shrink up completely.

isotretinoin seems to be associated with depression like symptoms in some patients , tretinoin is less conservative and much safer.

If you are already depressed and have dry skin and flare ups from the initial dose, then of course you are gonna feel like shit, people who believe that accutane causes suicide are the same people who believe vaccines cause autism. acnecell hippy copers.

 

[SurgerySoon]

On a related note - and I'm just thinking out loud here - but I wonder to what extent topical Retin-A actually boosts collagen production levels by in comparison to Accutane? In other words, if oral Accutane may boost collagen production by 50% - 60% (at least according to the handful of studies that have been conducted), then by what % does topical Retin-A boost them by?

Considering the fact that I've been applying 0 1% Retin-A on a nightly basis since July 2018 and appear to have continued aging at the same rate since then, I'm inclined to say that Retin-A probably isn't nearly as effective as Accutane (unless I would've aged even more noticeably over the past couple of years if I hadn't been using Retin-A). Are you aware of any data on how much topical Retin-A boosts collagen levels by @benignice?

 

[benignice]

On a related note - and I'm just thinking out loud here - but I wonder to what extent topical Retin-A actually boosts collagen production levels by in comparison to Accutane? In other words, if oral Accutane may boost collagen production by 50% - 60% (at least according to the handful of studies that have been conducted), then by what % does topical Retin-A boost them by?

Considering the fact that I've been applying 0 1% Retin-A on a nightly basis since July 2018 and appear to have continued aging at the same rate since then, I'm inclined to say that Retin-A probably isn't nearly as effective as Accutane (unless I would've aged even more noticeably over the past couple of years if I hadn't been using Retin-A). Are you aware of any data on how much topical Retin-A boosts collagen levels by @benignice?

I don't know of any numbers off the top of my head- this kind of nitty gritty stuff with tretinoin isn't what I deal with much since tret is firmly in the drug category and I've not dealt with pharmaceuticals since I was fresh out of university.
Its never going to stop you ageing though- time passes and nothing is going to change that so I'd be wary of saying that one thing would definitely work better to such an extent.

 

[SurgerySoon]

I don't know of any numbers off the top of my head- this kind of nitty gritty stuff with tretinoin isn't what I deal with much since tret is firmly in the drug category and I've not dealt with pharmaceuticals since I was fresh out of university.
Its never going to stop you ageing though- time passes and nothing is going to change that so I'd be wary of saying that one thing would definitely work better to such an extent.

Oh yeah, I definitely understand that there isn't anything out there that will prevent someone from aging altogether; it's just that I'm underwhelmed with how ineffective tret seems to be for me, especially after hearing/reading random dermatologists make bold claims like "Someone who starts using Retin-A in their early 30s and takes measures to prevent sun damage may look up to 10 years younger than their peers by the time they're 50!" and so on.

I guess like anything else, an individual's genetics is the primary determining factor here, and there probably aren't any interventions that someone can utilize to alter the "course," so to speak, that their have laid out for them. Obviously, I didn't fare so well when it comes to aging and the genetic lottery.

 

[CopingForLife]

On a related note - and I'm just thinking out loud here - but I wonder to what extent topical Retin-A actually boosts collagen production levels by in comparison to Accutane? In other words, if oral Accutane may boost collagen production by 50% - 60% (at least according to the handful of studies that have been conducted), then by what % does topical Retin-A boost them by?

Considering the fact that I've been applying 0 1% Retin-A on a nightly basis since July 2018 and appear to have continued aging at the same rate since then, I'm inclined to say that Retin-A probably isn't nearly as effective as Accutane (unless I would've aged even more noticeably over the past couple of years if I hadn't been using Retin-A). Are you aware of any data on how much topical Retin-A boosts collagen levels by @benignice?

Are You using the 0.1 or 0.01 concentration?

Also, have You noticed any changes in skin texture? For instance, is ir more oily or dry, scaly, etc.

 

[SurgerySoon]

Are You using the 0.1 or 0.01 concentration?

Also, have You noticed any changes in skin texture? For instance, is ir more oily or dry, scaly, etc.

Been using the 0.1% concentration since July 2018. During the winter my skin is definitely drier and more scaly and there's a lot of peeling, but during the more humid summer months there's almost no peeling or scaliness and my skin tends to take on more of a smooth, almost plasticky quality.

 

[CopingForLife]

Been using the 0.1% concentration since July 2018. During the winter my skin is definitely drier and more scaly and there's a lot of peeling, but during the more humid summer months there's almost no peeling or scaliness and my skin tends to take on more of a smooth, almost plasticky quality.

This has happened to me. A few years ago two close persons commented that My skin looked stretched, almost as if I had a face lift done. And that my face looked shiny though not from being oily but from being stretched. At that time I was only using tretinoin 0.5, no moisturizer nor sunscreen.

I remember I stopped using it consistently because of what they said, and just apply it sparingly a few times a month. I just started using it consistently again like a month ago but adding moisturizer to My regime because Now My skin gets extremely dry and peels. I Guess in the past it wasn't so severe.

Though I have to accept that I don't have a single visible wrinkle, while most Friends My age have some wrinkles here and there.

 

[SurgerySoon]

This has happened to me. A few years ago two close persons commented that My skin looked stretched, almost as if I had a face lift done. And that my face looked shiny though not from being oily but from being stretched. At that time I was only using tretinoin 0.5, no moisturizer nor sunscreen.

I remember I stopped using it consistently because of what they said, and just apply it sparingly a few times a month. I just started using it consistently again like a month ago but adding moisturizer to My regime because Now My skin gets extremely dry and peels. I Guess in the past it wasn't so severe.

Though I have to accept that I don't have a single visible wrinkle, while most Friends My age have some wrinkles here and there.

At this point, I'm just going to keep applying it consistently every night for the rest of my life, because I figure it has to at least have SOME effect. So far, I don't have any wrinkles aside from a nasolabial fold on my right side and some surface lines on the right side of my forehead.