Agreed
Nah the undeserved ego is real
Raises your cortisol too
Good thread, read every moleculeNOTE: Another "megathread". This thread gets increasingly existential so it’ll be even more of a slog to read than my previous threads. As for the rest, do my bidding and post “DNR” to bump my thread k thanks.
"Emotional debt"
For me, it was mostly ambiguity that contributed to my suffering rather than learning the harsh truth up front. What do I mean by this? For example, fat women are often praised as being “beautiful” and “perfect” just the way they are by their friends and acquaintances. But that unknowingly creates more “emotional debt” for them (the phrase “emotional debt” will be repeated a lot here). By trying to buy the landwhale happiness built on a lie, there’s going to be “compound interest” that they’ll have to pay by living this lie. All of that is merely borrowed happiness from the future. After all, most people would rather be ruined by praise (make-believe) than saved by criticism (harsh truths). Hence, why people cope with “moving on from the blackpill” when it’s a constant in the background that doesn’t move on from them. I see embracing the blackpill early on as a form of “tough love” for yourself.
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I remember reading this cuckeddit post which kinda gave me second-hand heartbreak made by some dude who’s family and his girlfriend’s were close. They grew up together and their mothers were even sorority sisters and best friends. The girlfriend agreed to no pre-marital sex with each other. But this promise was broken when she went to a leadership program for 2 weeks and during that time, she cheated and lost her virginity to some rando that pumped n dumped her. With all those formative bonds contributing to the buildup, it could’ve been a one in a million fairy tale in a cold and merciless world. But she threw it all away for one night of rando cock that didn’t commit. Contrary to what redpillers and jeets think, no “moneypill” will reverse the outcome here.
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The “emotional debt” that the guy accumulated was believing that his bond with the gf was unbreakable, given the fact that both their families were close and their mothers were best friends. It subconsciously may have made him believe that the gf would be far more wary of the consequences of breaking the premarital promise. This built up a fairy-tale “equity”. Even when you have everything in your favor, you can never be complacent as a guy. Complacency and the illusion of security were that guy’s “liability”. In the right circumstances, a guy with enough persistence will manage to take your virgin oneitis/gf’s virginity, as if those countless bonding moments and rich history never meant anything in the first place. To live as a sentient man who feels deeply is to diversify your “emotional portfolio” continuously.
Not my thread but this is where I found the story for those who are curious:
JBF DEBUNKED [WARNING EXTREMELY BRUTAL THERMONUCLEAR BLACKPILL]
Found this extremely brutal post on Rareddit, easily the most brutal thing I’ve ever read since I’ve been in the blackpill jfc :feelsbadman:. Even if you JBFmaxx your gf will still get her back blown out by a Chad Well some other guy just took my [18 M] g/f (now ex I guess) [17 f] virginity...looksmax.org
It might be an excuse for how I eventually ended up, but I am an only child (no siblings), meaning I had little support structure growing up. Although it admittedly led to me being spoiled quite a bit. My parents were quite lax and never had any expectations for me to be great or anything. Although they did give me a chad sounding name and hyped me up a lot, which gave me the pressure to live up to it. If I didn't, then I would get a sense of imposter syndrome. All of that created an “emotional debt” that I had to pay with interest. I was basically cosigned for a loan that I didn’t apply for. It made my baseline for happiness much higher than it should be. It may have led to me developing a competitive drive and a desire to prove that nothing I possess is out of luck or circumstance, but through my own willpower. Obviously, being blackpilled later on, that is not completely true for anyone. I also had to come to terms with the fact that I’m not as “chad” as my parents hyped me up to be. Even when I confronted them about the dangers of excessively praising me just for existing and piling on me with more “emotional debt”, they were adamant that they were right. That’s just them doubling down on their own emotional investment. Admitting fault would mean paying their own debt.
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For reference, I grew up in a rather idyllic (at least I hope so) middle-class family with mostly female family relatives. However, my father probably has the worst temper of anyone I know personally and is the type to adhere to rigid morality, bad-mouthing anyone who did not meet his moral baseline to a tee behind their backs. That of course set my standards for human morality up to the stratosphere from a young age. It’s only natural that I grew up to be incredibly short-fused and often felt let down. Gradually, I started thinking that “everyone is a POS by default until proven otherwise”. That way I can never be too disappointed. While having strict morals seems ideal in theory, it’s counterproductive in practice unless you surround yourself with people who have similar values (extremely rare). You’re going to be incredibly lonely when you grow up alongside degenerate thugs and shitlibs. Growing up in a relatively "normal" household probably meant I was held to more moral obligations than most kids. In other words, since I didn't need to worry about instability, neglect or trauma as much, I was likely pressured to share, apologize, or show restraint to people far more often. This unfortunately does not exactly align with my base instincts, hence creating an underlying psychological tension. It didn't help that I was also an only child and therefore might’ve been excessively pampered. I had much more to lose on a psychological level and ended up coming off as a bit too outwardly modest. Whereas kids who prioritized survival didn't need to worry about all of that. They were freer to chase what was on their mind without being chained down. Having something to "eat", whether it was food on their plate or sex with women, was the utmost priority to them. Even growing up in a male-dominated household would’ve helped with seeing women more as “prey” to hunt down rather than something to protect and be merciful with.
That one guy who somehow has a gf since middle school and took your oneitis’s virginity:
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Growing up with mostly female relatives probably subconsciously restrained me from being as bold with women as I wished. In a Jungian sense, it led to an overidentification with my anima (the feminine aspect in a man’s psyche). In other words, the feminine aspect within me ran the show on a subconscious level, hence leading to a tendency to project idealized qualities onto women. Hence, I developed a raging Madonna-Whore Complex. I know Carl Jung’s concepts are not scientific, as they can neither be proven nor disproven. Instead, I’ll be treating them as literary devices, or analogies in particular, for the purpose of my threads. I’ve only recently begun to integrate with my anima (gaining conscious awareness of this aspect of myself), thus, in the meantime, I can only resort to hypersexualisation of women (shadow-driven rebellion where repressed desires lash out) to slowly cope with the fact that they’re not as angelic as they’re mythologized. It’s counterproductive for a man’s psyche to believe “it’s generally men who are sex obsessed perverts”. Nowadays, I try to reduce contact with my female relatives as much as possible to escape their “devouring mother” influence. It's not because I have anything against them personally, but so that I can properly integrate with my anima and engage with women on an instinctual level without guilt. All of these are “emotional debts” I have to address and break free of to even begin enjoying life anxiety-free. This is like a process of debt consolidation, where you acknowledge the principal (your root upbringing and experiences), pay down the interest through self-awareness and active resistance in small bits. Life’s a cold balance sheet. To live is to be in debt. But if you’re self-aware enough, maybe it can turn compound interest into simple payoffs.
TL;DR: Ambiguity breeds suffering via "emotional debt" from illusory joy and avoiding blackpill truths. A classic example is praising fat women as "beautiful", leading them to accrue false happiness. Embracing the brutal truth is self-love that few are ever willing to give themselves. Life's debts consolidate through self-awareness: acknowledge upbringing, resist gradually and turn compound misery into simple freedom.
The "emotional debt" of existence
NOTE: Heavy "lore drop" that won't interest most readers here. Don't say I didn't warn you.
The impression that life will seemingly go on forever is probably the first and biggest "emotional debt" that a person will have in their life. At some point while growing up, those who are sentient enough get an existential crisis when they process their own mortality. It happened when I was 10 (few months before that chess story), I was having a stroll with my parents at a park that was by the beach. I was looking at the waves crashing below me while walking across a small bridge made up of wooden planks with no handrails, thinking that if I fell off, I would likely die. It's like that I immediately understood cause and effect. By the time I got home, I started feeling unwell, and my mind started imagining all possible outcomes of me falling off that bridge. It's as if my mind started running a Monte Carlo simulation on its own without my active input. It got to the point where I started to intuitively grasp the concept of the butterfly effect. I started thinking about stuff like "if I didn't go to this school, I wouldn't have met my friends" or "If I left my house 10 seconds later, I would've died in an accident". The point is, I kept dwelling on how different my life would be just because I did one thing differently. Inb4 "B-but that's such a larrrrp no 10 yr old thinks like that". I never implied it was an impressive or pussy wetter trait to have. It's not my fault you were still eating crayons at that age or some other regrettable shit. Take your insecurities elsewhere ass clown.
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This happened during school break, which gave me enough time to dwell on this to the point of losing interest in doing anything, including playing video games. Instead, I wanted to do nothing but sleep, afraid that any singular action could alter my life so significantly that it would lead to my own death. I remember crying in bed for at least a week whilst having suicidal thoughts. Yet somehow, I managed to recover naturally without my parents taking me to a psychiatrist or anything like that. They just thought that I was a really strange kid JFL. I suppose this existential crisis led me to see the world through the game theory-esque perspective I have today, basically being in a perpetual cost-benefit analysis mode.
That was more or less the birth of "Sloppyseconds", if you will. It's somewhat like a robot gaining complete sentience like WALL-E through a glitch, but instead immediately wanting to self-destruct. When a sentient being has a complete lack of biological drive, lack of familial relations, non-existence becomes the preferable state. I always found the concept of existence and that anything exists at all to be a paradox, given that nothingness is infinitely more effortless. Having a game theory-esque way of looking at life means you'll gradually understand that "nothing ever happens" and that anime logic doesn't apply to real life, unlike some clowns here. Hence, swallowing the blackpill felt incredibly natural and liberating for me.
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It's one of the things that has been greatly responsible for the incessant inner monologue I have had ever since, which is something I seek to gradually silence. This might not apply to everyone, but for some individuals, their lives start off as simple (imagine when you're a kid, carefree and innocent), then turn increasingly complex (adolescence and transition into adulthood) and finally back to simplicity again at some point. That felt like my timeline as well, and currently I feel like I'm still stuck in the messy and complex "incelligence" stage. At this point, my sentience feels more like a burden than a gift. I suppose writing these threads is for the purpose of laying the groundwork to open up my "third eye", if that makes any sense.
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My theory is that this existential crisis kicked my competitive instincts into overdrive, as if my subconscious wanted to distract me from the inherent meaninglessness of existence. I suppose it managed to distract me for another 10+ years until I had somewhat of a near-death experience. That was when I started dwelling on my mortality once more with the same depth. This happened some point after my virgin oneitis left me and before I started writing high-effort threads on .org. When someone dies, the ones who are still alive tend to project their own feelings onto how the deceased feels. But the thing is, the deceased no longer feels anything (at least from a scientific POV). I'm not going to go into much detail (so don't ask me about this or how I got rescued), but I was trapped in a room and genuinely thought I was going to die. During those moments, what I worried about the most wasn’t me potentially going to sleep forever, but the effect my death would have on my family. Inb4 some delusional jeet be like "You're just broke. Moneypill could've saved you there". Even though I resented the methods my parents used to raise my self-esteem, I still didn't want to make their efforts in raising me be in vain. During that moment, I wasn’t worried about “poor me”; I was worried about “poor them”. That was what caused me the most pain. When you genuinely think you're about to die, feelings you never knew you had float to the surface. Inb4 "T-that's such a dramatized larpppp story. It's too emotionally intense to be truuuuue". Sincerely, fuck off. Take your projections elsewhere clown ass. I'm not obligated to console your wacky ass insecurities.
A more clinical overview of what was happening:
My theory is that I have atypical brain wiring (if it isn't obvious enough). In some cases, some people growing up have reduced synaptic pruning (where excess neural connections are trimmed during childhood), leading to denser neural networks, hence supercharging pattern recognition. Although that brought about intensified thoughts and emotions, and hyperconsciousness of every move I make. Normies however, have gone through the "normal" synaptic pruning process (women are generally more "pruned" in the brain than men). From the non-NT perspective, they appear as being able to function with cold efficiency and versatility in a social context, as they're not as weighed down by psychological burdens and intense emotions (for example, being able to network and use people to their personal gain without experiencing much guilt).
I likely experienced a hyperactivation in my amygdala, which is basically a structure in the brain that processes fear and emotional threats. When the amygdala underwent hyperactivation, it likely flooded me with stress hormones, creating a fight-flight freeze response. At 10, my prefrontal cortex was obviously far from being fully developed. Thus, it couldn't "calm" the amygdala signals leading to this existential loop. It likely contributes to my metabolism being like a nuclear furnace even when I'm already well into my 20s now. At this point, I only weigh about 170 pounds at 6ft, albeit at around 10% body fat and probably hovered around that mark for the past 7 years despite actively trying to bulk.
As for why all this happened? Genetic predeterminism I suppose. It was probably written in my genes. Yet everyone else in my family is neurotypical, and I'm the only one who thinks this way. It doesn't help that most of my family members are women, adding another layer of spiritual isolation. Hence, why I compared my existential crisis to WALL-E experiencing a "glitch" and gaining sentience. Everything seemed to have been going well back then. All my basic needs were met, and the future seemed bright. But nah insentient jeets will be like "You were just broke!! That's why you had an existential crisis". They'll never get it.
TL;DR: Existence's core "emotional debt" is assuming immortality. I had an existential crisis at 10 after a beach bridge walk. It led me to visualizing death, butterfly effect simulations to the point of suicidal ideations and crying in bed for at least a week. This created the foundation for a game theory-esque way of looking at life, bringing about an incessant inner monologue. Leaning into hypercompetitiveness was a way for me to distract myself from this existential dread for the next 10+ years. I had to confront my own mortality once more when I had a near-death experience sometime before posting high-effort threads on .org.
The romanticization of analytical traits
I'd argue that the romanticization of intelligence in the analytical, hyper-logical sense is the reason a large number of us are on this site to begin with. The culprit is that most of us spend 12-13 years in compulsory schooling, and our minds are instilled with the idea that intelligence and being "smart" = better life = happy. But that's another "emotional debt" that most of us accrue without realizing.
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People do bring up Dolph Lundgren as someone who seemingly has "everything", physically and intellectually (6'4-6'5, 160 IQ, a master’s in chemical engineering, Fulbright scholarship, speaks multiple languages, was European karate champion, what else do I need to say?). Nerds hear about his story and double down on their STEM endeavors. But the more I think about it, the more I see him as a cautionary tale in the pursuit of greatness and legacy in STEM. If someone as physically and intellectually gifted as he is decided to ditch STEM for a "dumber" career, then there must be a very strong rationale rooted in objectivity for why he did that. Overinstitutionalized individuals and jeets who view STEM as something closest to god say that his choice of pursuing showbiz over engineering was a "waste". Jeets often like to debate about which tech career is most "intellectually stimulating" as a form of virtue signalling to make it seem like they're intrinsically motivated. But they never talk about which career allows the most access to pussy/social opportunities with the least effort. The thing is, Dolph Lundgren's subjective perception of life matters too. I'm pretty sure he had somewhat of a game-theory-esque revelation too, about how STEM is overglorified and continuing down that path would mean burying himself in obscurity. He is not obliged to continue that path for the "betterment of mankind". The effort-to-reward is just pathetic compared to showbiz. While I do not doubt his intelligence on paper, it takes full commitment even for someone like him to change the world. Once again, real life isn't an anime. Nobel Prize laureate isn't a guarantee, and even then, he'd most likely be too old to matter, and it's no match for Hollywood star status. Let's be real, if he didn't become an actor to punch Stallone on screen, it's highly unlikely we'd even be talking about him on here at all. If it were just his mechanical intelligence alone, he wouldn't have been special enough to be hyped so much by people in the manosphere. There are still a couple of tens of thousands of people with his IQ or higher who could do what he could've in STEM, if not more. The reality is that you often need to "min-max" to leave a legacy worth speaking about. Athletes like CR7 or Messi could be shit at everything else other than football, not knowing how to wipe their ass, etc, and it wouldn't hurt their legacy. In fact, with their fame, they'd make not knowing how to wipe your ass trendy. For that, it's better to be one in a billion at one skill than to be the top 0.1% at many different things.
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A thread I made on a similar topic:
Misplaced expectations on success and the illusion of control (MEGATHREAD)
Intro In my early days of high school, I used to obsess over my finger speed since I was a guitarcel, and used to play this giga aspie game called “Cookie Clicker”. Mainly because of some typical midwits on Youtube making sex jokes about how a guy with quick fingers meant “their gf is so...
Analytical ability is one of those things that are romanticized in the same manner as hackers in movies, particularly by people who overidentify with academia. It's where you just see lines of code falling down and them typing at light speed. But very few here understand the social implications of bringing such a trait forward in social contexts where you're just trying to drown in some poontang. With kids first going to famous Twitch streamers and TikTokers to form their worldview on any particular societal issue, we live in a world where it's basically blind people following another blind person's lead. Trying to brand yourself as an analytical powerhouse in a society that is increasingly anti-intellectual is a fool's errand. Analytical traits are ideally reserved for problem-solving in silence. I know some users criticize me for how some of the stuff I say is “water”. But that’s the whole point. Starting with external logic in any online discussion/argument is the best way to handle things, since people can always fabricate their credentials and ability online. Making “water” statements "the sun rises from the east" or that "there are only two primary reproductive sexes" is important, because no matter your credentials, it takes an absolute lunatic to deny those facts in favor of their ego. That's my way of determining whether a person online is worth discussing with at all. Otherwise, you might as well communicate with your own farts.
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I've had people go silent on me because of me going on some hyper-analytical monologue in front of them, naively thinking it would raise my "status" in their eyes. That was also what contributed to my virgin oneitis ghosting me. I would've stood a better chance if I were foaming at the mouth and slurring my words. If I were to replay my life choices back in college, and I was given the choice of choosing between two extremes: being hyper-analytical or exhibiting "nigger tier sentience", I would choose the latter in a heartbeat to undo the "mistakes" I've made. In the end, who the fuck cares if you're analytical? It's either normies' glazing traits they don't even understand or some "revenge of the nerds" bullshit to think that has "aura" in contexts that align with the core philosophy of this site. I'm hiding this trait as much as I can and would rather play the fool nowadays IRL.
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Gradually, I started adopting behaviors that are often associated with being feral and untamed. It makes me think of this one time when I was feeding a dog. They just went straight for the food and devoured it while one of their paws was stepping on my hand the whole time. Judging from a human point of view, it's really fucking rude. But dogs don't give a shit. They are hungry and need to eat above all else. The point is to prioritize my own comfort over looking refined for the sake of jack shit. I'm basically training myself to eliminate the need to adhere to decorum so stringently. It's to come off as someone willing to express their passions unapologetically, not having to tiptoe over people's expectations. Obviously, one shouldn't overdo it to avoid looking like a caricature and adapt accordingly. But it's undoubtedly far more liberating than coming off like a Boy Scout.
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TL;DR: The romanticization of analytical intelligence instilled through compulsory schooling as a path to happiness unknowingly accrues "emotional debt" by promising glory. Dolph Lundgren (6'4-6'5, 160 IQ, chemical engineering master's, Fulbright scholar, multilingual, European karate champion) serves as a cautionary tale. He ditched STEM for showbiz. For someone of his exceptionality to make such a decision should speak volumes. You're better off min-maxxing one skill (think CR7 and Messi in football) over well-rounded excellence for an impactful legacy. Analytical traits falter socially in an anti-intellectual world that is metaphysically dictated by entertainers. Even if one possesses such a trait, it should be for solving problems in private and hidden to preserve social status IRL. Even feral dog-like behaviors work better in today's "meta".
The ocean metaphor as a repository for "emotional debt"
At one point in my childhood, I actually wanted to be an astronomer since I was fascinated with space, stars and planets. But since none of my peers or society really talked about it (perhaps lacking glamor from a societal perspective), I felt it would be an alienating path and this "dream" gradually slipped away out of societal pressure. Even though I showed curiosity about space at an early age, it was walking near the beach with my parents and the ocean that triggered my existential crisis, part of our world, yet still beyond our grasp. Inb4 "uR jUsT tRyInG tO sOuNd DeEp tO 13 yR oLdS".
It's like I had a telepathic connection with the sea itself that led to this existential crisis. When you think about it, the sea uncannily resembles the sentient human mind. The most paradoxical thing is that only 5% of Earth's ocean has been explored, yet humans' telescopic reach into space extends billions of light-years. Coincidentally, conscious thought only makes up 5% of our overall brain activity. This paradoxical ignorance doesn't only apply to the sea, but also to ourselves. I suppose it just reflects human nature. Looking outward is easy; you can project whatever you want out there. Can't say the same about looking inwards. One feels like a conquest, whereas the latter feels like a surrender. It reminds me of those who complain about "everything" in the world already being explored. Usually, those people are insufferable pricks incapable of introspection and think they're entitled to constantly being entertained by others. "Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - Carl Jung
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I've also gradually started seeing the ocean as being analogous to the collective consciousness. In the same way the ocean is one body of countless waves, currents and ecosystems, the collective consciousness could be seen as the sum of all individual minds, from past to present (ones that are at least somewhat sentient JFL). The bridge moment I had was probably not just the realization of cause and effect and my mortality, but also the subconscious understanding of finite self within an infinite whole. A strange way I cope with my mortality or any hardship is visualize the ocean in my mind. The "emotional debt" of mortality, and that dread of losing our specific narrative (death), might feel less heavy when you see your "wave" (subjective experience) as part of the "ocean" (collective consciousness). Perhaps that's why some people mellow out as they age when their individual ambitions remain unfulfilled. They then adopt a more community-oriented mindset as they sense their "wave" dissolving and want to contribute to the ocean's "flow". The same ocean that could take your life could also take away your pain.
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Writing these long-winded threads is perhaps a way to have my "emotional debt" paid off by having it dissolve into the shared human "ocean". It's to turn this existential weight into something shared, like casting a message in a bottle into the sea. As much as I rant about how toxic this site (.org) and some users are, it's perhaps one of the few repositories left in this world (or at least on the internet) that can somewhat neutralize individual suffering on a spiritual level. It scratches an itch that other avenues IRL might not be able to, and for that very purpose, this place has its merit as much as I hate to admit.
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TL;DR: I use the ocean as a metaphorical repository for unresolved existential burdens. The fact that the majority of the Earth's oceans remained unmapped mirrors how much of the human mind is currently beyond our understanding. It's easier to look outwards than inwards. The ocean could be compared to the collective consciousness: waves (individual minds) that come together to form the ocean (collective consciousness). For me, writing threads like this dissolves personal "debt" into this shared "sea".
@TiktokUser @bloomercel @LLcel @(-__-+) @greycel
I had a dream where I won a pissing contest and won "chad of the year" award jflNOTE: Another "megathread". This thread gets increasingly existential so it’ll be even more of a slog to read than my previous threads. As for the rest, do my bidding and post “DNR” to bump my thread k thanks.
"Emotional debt"
For me, it was mostly ambiguity that contributed to my suffering rather than learning the harsh truth up front. What do I mean by this? For example, fat women are often praised as being “beautiful” and “perfect” just the way they are by their friends and acquaintances. But that unknowingly creates more “emotional debt” for them (the phrase “emotional debt” will be repeated a lot here). By trying to buy the landwhale happiness built on a lie, there’s going to be “compound interest” that they’ll have to pay by living this lie. All of that is merely borrowed happiness from the future. After all, most people would rather be ruined by praise (make-believe) than saved by criticism (harsh truths). Hence, why people cope with “moving on from the blackpill” when it’s a constant in the background that doesn’t move on from them. I see embracing the blackpill early on as a form of “tough love” for yourself.
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I remember reading this cuckeddit post which kinda gave me second-hand heartbreak made by some dude who’s family and his girlfriend’s were close. They grew up together and their mothers were even sorority sisters and best friends. The girlfriend agreed to no pre-marital sex with each other. But this promise was broken when she went to a leadership program for 2 weeks and during that time, she cheated and lost her virginity to some rando that pumped n dumped her. With all those formative bonds contributing to the buildup, it could’ve been a one in a million fairy tale in a cold and merciless world. But she threw it all away for one night of rando cock that didn’t commit. Contrary to what redpillers and jeets think, no “moneypill” will reverse the outcome here.
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The “emotional debt” that the guy accumulated was believing that his bond with the gf was unbreakable, given the fact that both their families were close and their mothers were best friends. It subconsciously may have made him believe that the gf would be far more wary of the consequences of breaking the premarital promise. This built up a fairy-tale “equity”. Even when you have everything in your favor, you can never be complacent as a guy. Complacency and the illusion of security were that guy’s “liability”. In the right circumstances, a guy with enough persistence will manage to take your virgin oneitis/gf’s virginity, as if those countless bonding moments and rich history never meant anything in the first place. To live as a sentient man who feels deeply is to diversify your “emotional portfolio” continuously.
Not my thread but this is where I found the story for those who are curious:
JBF DEBUNKED [WARNING EXTREMELY BRUTAL THERMONUCLEAR BLACKPILL]
Found this extremely brutal post on Rareddit, easily the most brutal thing I’ve ever read since I’ve been in the blackpill jfc :feelsbadman:. Even if you JBFmaxx your gf will still get her back blown out by a Chad Well some other guy just took my [18 M] g/f (now ex I guess) [17 f] virginity...
It might be an excuse for how I eventually ended up, but I am an only child (no siblings), meaning I had little support structure growing up. Although it admittedly led to me being spoiled quite a bit. My parents were quite lax and never had any expectations for me to be great or anything. Although they did give me a chad sounding name and hyped me up a lot, which gave me the pressure to live up to it. If I didn't, then I would get a sense of imposter syndrome. All of that created an “emotional debt” that I had to pay with interest. I was basically cosigned for a loan that I didn’t apply for. It made my baseline for happiness much higher than it should be. It may have led to me developing a competitive drive and a desire to prove that nothing I possess is out of luck or circumstance, but through my own willpower. Obviously, being blackpilled later on, that is not completely true for anyone. I also had to come to terms with the fact that I’m not as “chad” as my parents hyped me up to be. Even when I confronted them about the dangers of excessively praising me just for existing and piling on me with more “emotional debt”, they were adamant that they were right. That’s just them doubling down on their own emotional investment. Admitting fault would mean paying their own debt.
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For reference, I grew up in a rather idyllic (at least I hope so) middle-class family with mostly female family relatives. However, my father probably has the worst temper of anyone I know personally and is the type to adhere to rigid morality, bad-mouthing anyone who did not meet his moral baseline to a tee behind their backs. That of course set my standards for human morality up to the stratosphere from a young age. It’s only natural that I grew up to be incredibly short-fused and often felt let down. Gradually, I started thinking that “everyone is a POS by default until proven otherwise”. That way I can never be too disappointed. While having strict morals seems ideal in theory, it’s counterproductive in practice unless you surround yourself with people who have similar values (extremely rare). You’re going to be incredibly lonely when you grow up alongside degenerate thugs and shitlibs. Growing up in a relatively "normal" household probably meant I was held to more moral obligations than most kids. In other words, since I didn't need to worry about instability, neglect or trauma as much, I was likely pressured to share, apologize, or show restraint to people far more often. This unfortunately does not exactly align with my base instincts, hence creating an underlying psychological tension. It didn't help that I was also an only child and therefore might’ve been excessively pampered. I had much more to lose on a psychological level and ended up coming off as a bit too outwardly modest. Whereas kids who prioritized survival didn't need to worry about all of that. They were freer to chase what was on their mind without being chained down. Having something to "eat", whether it was food on their plate or sex with women, was the utmost priority to them. Even growing up in a male-dominated household would’ve helped with seeing women more as “prey” to hunt down rather than something to protect and be merciful with.
That one guy who somehow has a gf since middle school and took your oneitis’s virginity:
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Growing up with mostly female relatives probably subconsciously restrained me from being as bold with women as I wished. In a Jungian sense, it led to an overidentification with my anima (the feminine aspect in a man’s psyche). In other words, the feminine aspect within me ran the show on a subconscious level, hence leading to a tendency to project idealized qualities onto women. Hence, I developed a raging Madonna-Whore Complex. I know Carl Jung’s concepts are not scientific, as they can neither be proven nor disproven. Instead, I’ll be treating them as literary devices, or analogies in particular, for the purpose of my threads. I’ve only recently begun to integrate with my anima (gaining conscious awareness of this aspect of myself), thus, in the meantime, I can only resort to hypersexualisation of women (shadow-driven rebellion where repressed desires lash out) to slowly cope with the fact that they’re not as angelic as they’re mythologized. It’s counterproductive for a man’s psyche to believe “it’s generally men who are sex obsessed perverts”. Nowadays, I try to reduce contact with my female relatives as much as possible to escape their “devouring mother” influence. It's not because I have anything against them personally, but so that I can properly integrate with my anima and engage with women on an instinctual level without guilt. All of these are “emotional debts” I have to address and break free of to even begin enjoying life anxiety-free. This is like a process of debt consolidation, where you acknowledge the principal (your root upbringing and experiences), pay down the interest through self-awareness and active resistance in small bits. Life’s a cold balance sheet. To live is to be in debt. But if you’re self-aware enough, maybe it can turn compound interest into simple payoffs.
TL;DR: Ambiguity breeds suffering via "emotional debt" from illusory joy and avoiding blackpill truths. A classic example is praising fat women as "beautiful", leading them to accrue false happiness. Embracing the brutal truth is self-love that few are ever willing to give themselves. Life's debts consolidate through self-awareness: acknowledge upbringing, resist gradually and turn compound misery into simple freedom.
The "emotional debt" of existence
NOTE: Heavy "lore drop" that won't interest most readers here. Don't say I didn't warn you.
The impression that life will seemingly go on forever is probably the first and biggest "emotional debt" that a person will have in their life. At some point while growing up, those who are sentient enough get an existential crisis when they process their own mortality. It happened when I was 10 (few months before that chess story), I was having a stroll with my parents at a park that was by the beach. I was looking at the waves crashing below me while walking across a small bridge made up of wooden planks with no handrails, thinking that if I fell off, I would likely die. It's like that I immediately understood cause and effect. By the time I got home, I started feeling unwell, and my mind started imagining all possible outcomes of me falling off that bridge. It's as if my mind started running a Monte Carlo simulation on its own without my active input. It got to the point where I started to intuitively grasp the concept of the butterfly effect. I started thinking about stuff like "if I didn't go to this school, I wouldn't have met my friends" or "If I left my house 10 seconds later, I would've died in an accident". The point is, I kept dwelling on how different my life would be just because I did one thing differently. Inb4 "B-but that's such a larrrrp no 10 yr old thinks like that". I never implied it was an impressive or pussy wetter trait to have. It's not my fault you were still eating crayons at that age or some other regrettable shit. Take your insecurities elsewhere ass clown.
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This happened during school break, which gave me enough time to dwell on this to the point of losing interest in doing anything, including playing video games. Instead, I wanted to do nothing but sleep, afraid that any singular action could alter my life so significantly that it would lead to my own death. I remember crying in bed for at least a week whilst having suicidal thoughts. Yet somehow, I managed to recover naturally without my parents taking me to a psychiatrist or anything like that. They just thought that I was a really strange kid JFL. I suppose this existential crisis led me to see the world through the game theory-esque perspective I have today, basically being in a perpetual cost-benefit analysis mode.
That was more or less the birth of "Sloppyseconds", if you will. It's somewhat like a robot gaining complete sentience like WALL-E through a glitch, but instead immediately wanting to self-destruct. When a sentient being has a complete lack of biological drive, lack of familial relations, non-existence becomes the preferable state. I always found the concept of existence and that anything exists at all to be a paradox, given that nothingness is infinitely more effortless. Having a game theory-esque way of looking at life means you'll gradually understand that "nothing ever happens" and that anime logic doesn't apply to real life, unlike some clowns here. Hence, swallowing the blackpill felt incredibly natural and liberating for me.
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It's one of the things that has been greatly responsible for the incessant inner monologue I have had ever since, which is something I seek to gradually silence. This might not apply to everyone, but for some individuals, their lives start off as simple (imagine when you're a kid, carefree and innocent), then turn increasingly complex (adolescence and transition into adulthood) and finally back to simplicity again at some point. That felt like my timeline as well, and currently I feel like I'm still stuck in the messy and complex "incelligence" stage. At this point, my sentience feels more like a burden than a gift. I suppose writing these threads is for the purpose of laying the groundwork to open up my "third eye", if that makes any sense.
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My theory is that this existential crisis kicked my competitive instincts into overdrive, as if my subconscious wanted to distract me from the inherent meaninglessness of existence. I suppose it managed to distract me for another 10+ years until I had somewhat of a near-death experience. That was when I started dwelling on my mortality once more with the same depth. This happened some point after my virgin oneitis left me and before I started writing high-effort threads on .org. When someone dies, the ones who are still alive tend to project their own feelings onto how the deceased feels. But the thing is, the deceased no longer feels anything (at least from a scientific POV). I'm not going to go into much detail (so don't ask me about this or how I got rescued), but I was trapped in a room and genuinely thought I was going to die. During those moments, what I worried about the most wasn’t me potentially going to sleep forever, but the effect my death would have on my family. Inb4 some delusional jeet be like "You're just broke. Moneypill could've saved you there". Even though I resented the methods my parents used to raise my self-esteem, I still didn't want to make their efforts in raising me be in vain. During that moment, I wasn’t worried about “poor me”; I was worried about “poor them”. That was what caused me the most pain. When you genuinely think you're about to die, feelings you never knew you had float to the surface. Inb4 "T-that's such a dramatized larpppp story. It's too emotionally intense to be truuuuue". Sincerely, fuck off. Take your projections elsewhere clown ass. I'm not obligated to console your wacky ass insecurities.
A more clinical overview of what was happening:
My theory is that I have atypical brain wiring (if it isn't obvious enough). In some cases, some people growing up have reduced synaptic pruning (where excess neural connections are trimmed during childhood), leading to denser neural networks, hence supercharging pattern recognition. Although that brought about intensified thoughts and emotions, and hyperconsciousness of every move I make. Normies however, have gone through the "normal" synaptic pruning process (women are generally more "pruned" in the brain than men). From the non-NT perspective, they appear as being able to function with cold efficiency and versatility in a social context, as they're not as weighed down by psychological burdens and intense emotions (for example, being able to network and use people to their personal gain without experiencing much guilt).
I likely experienced a hyperactivation in my amygdala, which is basically a structure in the brain that processes fear and emotional threats. When the amygdala underwent hyperactivation, it likely flooded me with stress hormones, creating a fight-flight freeze response. At 10, my prefrontal cortex was obviously far from being fully developed. Thus, it couldn't "calm" the amygdala signals leading to this existential loop. It likely contributes to my metabolism being like a nuclear furnace even when I'm already well into my 20s now. At this point, I only weigh about 170 pounds at 6ft, albeit at around 10% body fat and probably hovered around that mark for the past 7 years despite actively trying to bulk.
As for why all this happened? Genetic predeterminism I suppose. It was probably written in my genes. Yet everyone else in my family is neurotypical, and I'm the only one who thinks this way. It doesn't help that most of my family members are women, adding another layer of spiritual isolation. Hence, why I compared my existential crisis to WALL-E experiencing a "glitch" and gaining sentience. Everything seemed to have been going well back then. All my basic needs were met, and the future seemed bright. But nah insentient jeets will be like "You were just broke!! That's why you had an existential crisis". They'll never get it.
TL;DR: Existence's core "emotional debt" is assuming immortality. I had an existential crisis at 10 after a beach bridge walk. It led me to visualizing death, butterfly effect simulations to the point of suicidal ideations and crying in bed for at least a week. This created the foundation for a game theory-esque way of looking at life, bringing about an incessant inner monologue. Leaning into hypercompetitiveness was a way for me to distract myself from this existential dread for the next 10+ years. I had to confront my own mortality once more when I had a near-death experience sometime before posting high-effort threads on .org.
The romanticization of analytical traits
I'd argue that the romanticization of intelligence in the analytical, hyper-logical sense is the reason a large number of us are on this site to begin with. The culprit is that most of us spend 12-13 years in compulsory schooling, and our minds are instilled with the idea that intelligence and being "smart" = better life = happy. But that's another "emotional debt" that most of us accrue without realizing.
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People do bring up Dolph Lundgren as someone who seemingly has "everything", physically and intellectually (6'4-6'5, 160 IQ, a master’s in chemical engineering, Fulbright scholarship, speaks multiple languages, was European karate champion, what else do I need to say?). Nerds hear about his story and double down on their STEM endeavors. But the more I think about it, the more I see him as a cautionary tale in the pursuit of greatness and legacy in STEM. If someone as physically and intellectually gifted as he is decided to ditch STEM for a "dumber" career, then there must be a very strong rationale rooted in objectivity for why he did that. Overinstitutionalized individuals and jeets who view STEM as something closest to god say that his choice of pursuing showbiz over engineering was a "waste". Jeets often like to debate about which tech career is most "intellectually stimulating" as a form of virtue signalling to make it seem like they're intrinsically motivated. But they never talk about which career allows the most access to pussy/social opportunities with the least effort. The thing is, Dolph Lundgren's subjective perception of life matters too. I'm pretty sure he had somewhat of a game-theory-esque revelation too, about how STEM is overglorified and continuing down that path would mean burying himself in obscurity. He is not obliged to continue that path for the "betterment of mankind". The effort-to-reward is just pathetic compared to showbiz. While I do not doubt his intelligence on paper, it takes full commitment even for someone like him to change the world. Once again, real life isn't an anime. Nobel Prize laureate isn't a guarantee, and even then, he'd most likely be too old to matter, and it's no match for Hollywood star status. Let's be real, if he didn't become an actor to punch Stallone on screen, it's highly unlikely we'd even be talking about him on here at all. If it were just his mechanical intelligence alone, he wouldn't have been special enough to be hyped so much by people in the manosphere. There are still a couple of tens of thousands of people with his IQ or higher who could do what he could've in STEM, if not more. The reality is that you often need to "min-max" to leave a legacy worth speaking about. Athletes like CR7 or Messi could be shit at everything else other than football, not knowing how to wipe their ass, etc, and it wouldn't hurt their legacy. In fact, with their fame, they'd make not knowing how to wipe your ass trendy. For that, it's better to be one in a billion at one skill than to be the top 0.1% at many different things.
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A thread I made on a similar topic:
Misplaced expectations on success and the illusion of control (MEGATHREAD)
Intro In my early days of high school, I used to obsess over my finger speed since I was a guitarcel, and used to play this giga aspie game called “Cookie Clicker”. Mainly because of some typical midwits on Youtube making sex jokes about how a guy with quick fingers meant “their gf is so...
Analytical ability is one of those things that are romanticized in the same manner as hackers in movies, particularly by people who overidentify with academia. It's where you just see lines of code falling down and them typing at light speed. But very few here understand the social implications of bringing such a trait forward in social contexts where you're just trying to drown in some poontang. With kids first going to famous Twitch streamers and TikTokers to form their worldview on any particular societal issue, we live in a world where it's basically blind people following another blind person's lead. Trying to brand yourself as an analytical powerhouse in a society that is increasingly anti-intellectual is a fool's errand. Analytical traits are ideally reserved for problem-solving in silence. I know some users criticize me for how some of the stuff I say is “water”. But that’s the whole point. Starting with external logic in any online discussion/argument is the best way to handle things, since people can always fabricate their credentials and ability online. Making “water” statements "the sun rises from the east" or that "there are only two primary reproductive sexes" is important, because no matter your credentials, it takes an absolute lunatic to deny those facts in favor of their ego. That's my way of determining whether a person online is worth discussing with at all. Otherwise, you might as well communicate with your own farts.
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I've had people go silent on me because of me going on some hyper-analytical monologue in front of them, naively thinking it would raise my "status" in their eyes. That was also what contributed to my virgin oneitis ghosting me. I would've stood a better chance if I were foaming at the mouth and slurring my words. If I were to replay my life choices back in college, and I was given the choice of choosing between two extremes: being hyper-analytical or exhibiting "nigger tier sentience", I would choose the latter in a heartbeat to undo the "mistakes" I've made. In the end, who the fuck cares if you're analytical? It's either normies' glazing traits they don't even understand or some "revenge of the nerds" bullshit to think that has "aura" in contexts that align with the core philosophy of this site. I'm hiding this trait as much as I can and would rather play the fool nowadays IRL.
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Gradually, I started adopting behaviors that are often associated with being feral and untamed. It makes me think of this one time when I was feeding a dog. They just went straight for the food and devoured it while one of their paws was stepping on my hand the whole time. Judging from a human point of view, it's really fucking rude. But dogs don't give a shit. They are hungry and need to eat above all else. The point is to prioritize my own comfort over looking refined for the sake of jack shit. I'm basically training myself to eliminate the need to adhere to decorum so stringently. It's to come off as someone willing to express their passions unapologetically, not having to tiptoe over people's expectations. Obviously, one shouldn't overdo it to avoid looking like a caricature and adapt accordingly. But it's undoubtedly far more liberating than coming off like a Boy Scout.
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TL;DR: The romanticization of analytical intelligence instilled through compulsory schooling as a path to happiness unknowingly accrues "emotional debt" by promising glory. Dolph Lundgren (6'4-6'5, 160 IQ, chemical engineering master's, Fulbright scholar, multilingual, European karate champion) serves as a cautionary tale. He ditched STEM for showbiz. For someone of his exceptionality to make such a decision should speak volumes. You're better off min-maxxing one skill (think CR7 and Messi in football) over well-rounded excellence for an impactful legacy. Analytical traits falter socially in an anti-intellectual world that is metaphysically dictated by entertainers. Even if one possesses such a trait, it should be for solving problems in private and hidden to preserve social status IRL. Even feral dog-like behaviors work better in today's "meta".
The ocean metaphor as a repository for "emotional debt"
At one point in my childhood, I actually wanted to be an astronomer since I was fascinated with space, stars and planets. But since none of my peers or society really talked about it (perhaps lacking glamor from a societal perspective), I felt it would be an alienating path and this "dream" gradually slipped away out of societal pressure. Even though I showed curiosity about space at an early age, it was walking near the beach with my parents and the ocean that triggered my existential crisis, part of our world, yet still beyond our grasp. Inb4 "uR jUsT tRyInG tO sOuNd DeEp tO 13 yR oLdS".
It's like I had a telepathic connection with the sea itself that led to this existential crisis. When you think about it, the sea uncannily resembles the sentient human mind. The most paradoxical thing is that only 5% of Earth's ocean has been explored, yet humans' telescopic reach into space extends billions of light-years. Coincidentally, conscious thought only makes up 5% of our overall brain activity. This paradoxical ignorance doesn't only apply to the sea, but also to ourselves. I suppose it just reflects human nature. Looking outward is easy; you can project whatever you want out there. Can't say the same about looking inwards. One feels like a conquest, whereas the latter feels like a surrender. It reminds me of those who complain about "everything" in the world already being explored. Usually, those people are insufferable pricks incapable of introspection and think they're entitled to constantly being entertained by others. "Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - Carl Jung
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I've also gradually started seeing the ocean as being analogous to the collective consciousness. In the same way the ocean is one body of countless waves, currents and ecosystems, the collective consciousness could be seen as the sum of all individual minds, from past to present (ones that are at least somewhat sentient JFL). The bridge moment I had was probably not just the realization of cause and effect and my mortality, but also the subconscious understanding of finite self within an infinite whole. A strange way I cope with my mortality or any hardship is visualize the ocean in my mind. The "emotional debt" of mortality, and that dread of losing our specific narrative (death), might feel less heavy when you see your "wave" (subjective experience) as part of the "ocean" (collective consciousness). Perhaps that's why some people mellow out as they age when their individual ambitions remain unfulfilled. They then adopt a more community-oriented mindset as they sense their "wave" dissolving and want to contribute to the ocean's "flow". The same ocean that could take your life could also take away your pain.
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Writing these long-winded threads is perhaps a way to have my "emotional debt" paid off by having it dissolve into the shared human "ocean". It's to turn this existential weight into something shared, like casting a message in a bottle into the sea. As much as I rant about how toxic this site (.org) and some users are, it's perhaps one of the few repositories left in this world (or at least on the internet) that can somewhat neutralize individual suffering on a spiritual level. It scratches an itch that other avenues IRL might not be able to, and for that very purpose, this place has its merit as much as I hate to admit.
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TL;DR: I use the ocean as a metaphorical repository for unresolved existential burdens. The fact that the majority of the Earth's oceans remained unmapped mirrors how much of the human mind is currently beyond our understanding. It's easier to look outwards than inwards. The ocean could be compared to the collective consciousness: waves (individual minds) that come together to form the ocean (collective consciousness). For me, writing threads like this dissolves personal "debt" into this shared "sea".
@TiktokUser @bloomercel @LLcel @(-__-+) @greycel
