Ending the surgery cope (RATIOCELS DO NOT ENTER)

fuse

fuse

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Disclaimer: I'm not against surgery or denying that it'll make you look better. The point of this thread is to get across the point that for most niggas on here its a major cope to think surgeries will ascend them from LTN to HTN+. I also wont be discussing pheno because the effect it has on looks is already widely known and talked about on here

A very commonly posted "proof" of "subhumans" being able ascend to HTN/chadlite through surgery is @Blackgymmax 's ascension, but few people here seem to have actually examined how and why such a drastic ascension was possible for him.

First of all, he wasn't subhuman before surgery. The only pic where he looks remotely subhuman is the one every coping LTN loves to post:
1715191771372

But if you have an iq above 90 it's clear that this pic is heavily lens distorted, i mean his ears are barely visible ffs.
If you watch the videos of him in motion on his youtube channel you can tell he wasn't nearly as ugly as people here claim him to have been.


Alright now that we've cleared up the cope about BGM having been below LTN i can get to my main point, his base

The reason he was able to ascend so much from surgery is because he had good ratios and soft features. Before surgery he always had a good ESR, FWHR, IPD, ICD, PCR etc.
His unchangable soft features were also good. He had a normal lip seal with a wide mouth (very important and hard to improve) and a high PFL. Him not having had any nasolabial folds is also a sign of a forward grown face with well placed fat pads.

His unattractiveness stemmed from the following failos: High nose width, lacking bigonial width, mediocre orbitals, short ramus, and high set + light eyebrows.
Almost all of these failos are fixable with surgery and filler. When considering his ratios, soft features, and facial development, its not surprising he managed to ascend as much as he did.
1715191726589


If you observe the pre-op faces of guys who ascended hard with surgery, you'll realize all of them had the same case of good ratios/soft features with fixable skeletal failos.
1715195601241
1715195696370
1715195919681


If your main failos stem from bad scores in the following ratios and features you need to lower your expectations of what surgery will get you:
-FWHR
-IPD & ICD (ur not getting OBO)
-Philrum length if caused by short nose relative to MFR and not thin upper lip
-PFL
-Anterior facial depth (ur not getting LF2)
-Mouth width relative to zygos
-Lips (extremely underrated)
-Eyebrow height
-Naso fold prominance

This forum is full of LTNs who think they'll become attractive by getting some combination of trimax, implants, and rhino when in most cases these things dont fix the real causes for their unattractive face. Low scores in several of the previously listed unfixable ratios/features is what is actually making them unattractive.

You need to come to terms with which of your failos are the ones actually making you ugly, and how fixable they realistically are. If you have a shit MFR with a short nose and a narrow downturned mouth then no amount of jaw surgeries or implants are gonna make you attractive, i'm sorry.

@Magnum Opus @RealSurgerymax @ccwarrior @HarrierDuBois @VenatorLuparius @depressionmaxxing @Amnesia @DelonLover1999 @ambi @Clavicular @Gaia262 @PsychoDsk @NorwoodAscender

If you made it through all of this dont forget to rep:)
 
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i just need a cantho and a small rhino and im good
 
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wait why can i not widen lips ?
 
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Like i said in the thread, surgery most definitely CAN ascend you if you have the right base for it.
If you have good ratios and soft feaures with recession or lacking bone mass, implants/jaw surgery are definitely the way.

Look at Raffainis public patients for great examples of how people with good bases can ascend with jaw surgery
 
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expansion + lip stretching
show me someone who actually got long term results from this lol
also when i said lips i didnt just mean mouth width. lip seal, height, shape, volume etc is hard to change for men without becoming fagmaxxed
yes but mostly cope, haven't really seen any good results from this
fix recession betters it
true, doesn't really fit the list
 
Not reading all that bout some random nigga
 
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idk man how many mtn-htn to chadlite-chad transformations have you seen that arent a result of puberty and losing weight or any camera fuckery going on.
 
the real cope is surgery in itself because no one actually gets it
Its a fever dream of what if
 
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Thanks for the reminder OP! :aheago:
(In all seriousness good thread)
 
the real cope is surgery in itself because no one actually gets it
Its a fever dream of what if
the people who are getting surgery to self improve are usually not the ones actively posting on looksmax.org, nor the ones that would want to be in contact with or share their results with rotters like you
 
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there's chads with every single feature you've mentioned that's supposed to be a death sentence, none of it matters, only harmony does.
 
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True, harmony is the hardest thing to fix. That's why i'll never ascend, my ratios are completely fucked. Chin to philtrum, IPD, vertical dystopia :feelswhy:
 
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Before surgery he always had a good ESR, FWHR, IPD, ICD, PCR
No he didn't lmao. How is .5 esr 1.77 fwhr, 1.25 icd good? JFL
 
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True. In vast majority of cases though it IS recessed jaw problems which can be solved by bimax which also just happens to be very expensive and traumatic.
 
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there's chads with every single feature you've mentioned that's supposed to be a death sentence, none of it matters, only harmony does.
when did i ever call any singular feature a death sentence, are you illiterate? harmony is just a synonym for facial attractiveness, of course its the only thing that matters for face you dumb ass nigga. the point of this thread was to highlight the fact that crazy ascensions aren't possible unless you have the base for it. a lot of people on here are ugly because of shit like philtrum, mouth area, etc yet still expect ascending two psl tiers from fixing their 3mm jaw recession and getting ogre implants when that isnt fixing the root cause
 
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True. In vast majority of cases though it IS recessed jaw problems which can be solved by bimax which also just happens to be very expensive and traumatic.
why traumatic though
 
Good thread. You're right but that's not to say getting certain surgeries to fix very obvious failos wouldn't greatly benefit people. It would increase their attractiveness even if they're delusional and not realistic about their true potential.
 
Disclaimer: I'm not against surgery or denying that it'll make you look better. The point of this thread is to get across the point that for most niggas on here its a major cope to think surgeries will ascend them from LTN to HTN+. I also wont be discussing pheno because the effect it has on looks is already widely known and talked about on here

A very commonly posted "proof" of "subhumans" being able ascend to HTN/chadlite through surgery is @Blackgymmax 's ascension, but few people here seem to have actually examined how and why such a drastic ascension was possible for him.

First of all, he wasn't subhuman before surgery. The only pic where he looks remotely subhuman is the one every coping LTN loves to post:
View attachment 2905751
But if you have an iq above 90 it's clear that this pic is heavily lens distorted, i mean his ears are barely visible ffs.
If you watch the videos of him in motion on his youtube channel you can tell he wasn't nearly as ugly as people here claim him to have been.


Alright now that we've cleared up the cope about BGM having been below LTN i can get to my main point, his base

The reason he was able to ascend so much from surgery is because he had good ratios and soft features. Before surgery he always had a good ESR, FWHR, IPD, ICD, PCR etc.
His unchangable soft features were also good. He had a normal lip seal with a wide mouth (very important and hard to improve) and a high PFL. Him not having had any nasolabial folds is also a sign of a forward grown face with well placed fat pads.

His unattractiveness stemmed from the following failos: High nose width, lacking bigonial width, mediocre orbitals, short ramus, and high set + light eyebrows.
Almost all of these failos are fixable with surgery and filler. When considering his ratios, soft features, and facial development, its not surprising he managed to ascend as much as he did.
View attachment 2905747

If you observe the pre-op faces of guys who ascended hard with surgery, you'll realize all of them had the same case of good ratios/soft features with fixable skeletal failos.
View attachment 2905910View attachment 2905914View attachment 2905922

If your main failos stem from bad scores in the following ratios and features you need to lower your expectations of what surgery will get you:
-FWHR
-IPD & ICD (ur not getting OBO)
-Philrum length if caused by short nose relative to MFR and not thin upper lip
-PFL
-Anterior facial depth (ur not getting LF2)
-Mouth width relative to zygos
-Lips (extremely underrated)
-Eyebrow height
-Naso fold prominance

This forum is full of LTNs who think they'll become attractive by getting some combination of trimax, implants, and rhino when in most cases these things dont fix the real causes for their unattractive face. Low scores in several of the previously listed unfixable ratios/features is what is actually making them unattractive.

You need to come to terms with which of your failos are the ones actually making you ugly, and how fixable they realistically are. If you have a shit MFR with a short nose and a narrow downturned mouth then no amount of jaw surgeries or implants are gonna make you attractive, i'm sorry.

@Magnum Opus @RealSurgerymax @ccwarrior @HarrierDuBois @VenatorLuparius @depressionmaxxing @Amnesia @DelonLover1999 @ambi @Clavicular @Gaia262 @PsychoDsk @NorwoodAscender

If you made it through all of this dont forget to rep:)
im fucked lmao I genuinely believe pfl is everything most of the time.
 
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exactly

he tweaked ESR and fwhr with filler
Alot of his ratios were really bad before and he fixed alot of them mainly with filler and also with surgery too
 
source? which pic/pics are these numbers from
Bruh just measure it on photoshop
Some of the ratios I listed are here
 
Brutal this thread really showcases the avg reading comprehension skills on .org
 
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If your main failos stem from bad scores in the following ratios and features you need to lower your expectations of what surgery will get you:
-FWHR
-IPD & ICD (ur not getting OBO)
-Philrum length if caused by short nose relative to MFR and not thin upper lip
-PFL
-Anterior facial depth (ur not getting LF2)
-Mouth width relative to zygos
-Lips (extremely underrated)
-Eyebrow height
-Naso fold prominance

:)
Luckily i dont have any of those. just no orbitals
 
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Disclaimer: I'm not against surgery or denying that it'll make you look better. The point of this thread is to get across the point that for most niggas on here its a major cope to think surgeries will ascend them from LTN to HTN+. I also wont be discussing pheno because the effect it has on looks is already widely known and talked about on here

A very commonly posted "proof" of "subhumans" being able ascend to HTN/chadlite through surgery is @Blackgymmax 's ascension, but few people here seem to have actually examined how and why such a drastic ascension was possible for him.

First of all, he wasn't subhuman before surgery. The only pic where he looks remotely subhuman is the one every coping LTN loves to post:
View attachment 2905751
But if you have an iq above 90 it's clear that this pic is heavily lens distorted, i mean his ears are barely visible ffs.
If you watch the videos of him in motion on his youtube channel you can tell he wasn't nearly as ugly as people here claim him to have been.


Alright now that we've cleared up the cope about BGM having been below LTN i can get to my main point, his base

The reason he was able to ascend so much from surgery is because he had good ratios and soft features. Before surgery he always had a good ESR, FWHR, IPD, ICD, PCR etc.
His unchangable soft features were also good. He had a normal lip seal with a wide mouth (very important and hard to improve) and a high PFL. Him not having had any nasolabial folds is also a sign of a forward grown face with well placed fat pads.

His unattractiveness stemmed from the following failos: High nose width, lacking bigonial width, mediocre orbitals, short ramus, and high set + light eyebrows.
Almost all of these failos are fixable with surgery and filler. When considering his ratios, soft features, and facial development, its not surprising he managed to ascend as much as he did.
View attachment 2905747

If you observe the pre-op faces of guys who ascended hard with surgery, you'll realize all of them had the same case of good ratios/soft features with fixable skeletal failos.
View attachment 2905910View attachment 2905914View attachment 2905922

If your main failos stem from bad scores in the following ratios and features you need to lower your expectations of what surgery will get you:
-FWHR
-IPD & ICD (ur not getting OBO)
-Philrum length if caused by short nose relative to MFR and not thin upper lip
-PFL
-Anterior facial depth (ur not getting LF2)
-Mouth width relative to zygos
-Lips (extremely underrated)
-Eyebrow height
-Naso fold prominance

This forum is full of LTNs who think they'll become attractive by getting some combination of trimax, implants, and rhino when in most cases these things dont fix the real causes for their unattractive face. Low scores in several of the previously listed unfixable ratios/features is what is actually making them unattractive.

You need to come to terms with which of your failos are the ones actually making you ugly, and how fixable they realistically are. If you have a shit MFR with a short nose and a narrow downturned mouth then no amount of jaw surgeries or implants are gonna make you attractive, i'm sorry.

@Magnum Opus @RealSurgerymax @ccwarrior @HarrierDuBois @VenatorLuparius @depressionmaxxing @Amnesia @DelonLover1999 @ambi @Clavicular @Gaia262 @PsychoDsk @NorwoodAscender

If you made it through all of this dont forget to rep:)
I've seen way too many plastic surgery before and afters that go from invisible to invisible that the idea is lost on me. Everything has to line up for it to work out. Your surgeon needs to be blackpilled and competent, you need to choose the right procedure, you need to have a good genetic base to begin with, you need to make the money in a reasonable time frame so you don't end up missing out.
 
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U seem knowledgeable can i send u my pics in dm get your opinion on what surgeries and stuff
 
No he didn't lmao. How is .5 esr 1.77 fwhr, 1.25 icd good? JFL
Alot of his ratios were really bad before and he fixed alot of them mainly with filler and also with surgery too
exactly

he tweaked ESR and fwhr with filler
alright since you niggas like to nitpick so bad let me rephrase what i meant:
yes fwhr is changable by increasing bizygo but that comes with decreasing esr. unless your esr is too high it'll fuck it up
same if you're getting cheekbone reduction to lower fwhr, you'll fuck up your esr unless its already too low
 
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define facial harmony then lol
it's mostly averageness, what that entails depends on where you live, you want to have the kind of traits that are common in the general population because it makes you look familiar which makes socialization a lot easier, the complicated part is that countries like america don't have a real 'average' on a national level since they're mutty as fuck, so that depends on micro-populations.

you can be ugly and have high facial averageness, and you'd be treated better than someone that's more attractive than you with low averageness, that is why it's so important.

if you go outside (wear sunscreen so you don't burn like a vampire) you'll see plenty of pretty awful looking men with seemingly attractive women, if you pay attention you'll realize they all got in common that they look super normal, even if you wouldn't consider it attractive, they might be balding, they might have a double chin, but they look extremely normal, it makes people feel safe, so despite the complete lack of facial aesthetics they still end up having more interactions, and thus more chances.
 
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Greycels always pop up out of nowhere and post good shit
 
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do you not understand all these things correlate? People with bad fwhr usually will have bad esr as well since their faces are underdeveloped
 
do you not understand all these things correlate? People with bad fwhr usually will have bad esr as well since their faces are underdeveloped
alright since you niggas like to nitpick so bad let me rephrase what i meant:
yes fwhr is changable by increasing bizygo but that comes with decreasing esr. unless your esr is too high it'll fuck it up
same if you're getting cheekbone reduction to lower fwhr, you'll fuck up your esr unless its already too low
 
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2024cel and your reaching the surface level cases, you clearly dont know enough. just stop dude
 
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the real cope is surgery in itself because no one actually gets it
Its a fever dream of what if
In addition to that, most people dont even commit to fully softmaxx their potential anyway. So even thinking about hardmaxxing at that point is stupid.
 
show me someone who actually got long term results from this lol
also when i said lips i didnt just mean mouth width. lip seal, height, shape, volume etc is hard to change for men without becoming fagmaxxed

yes but mostly cope, haven't really seen any good results from this

true, doesn't really fit the list
@Phillybeard1996
 
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it's mostly averageness, what that entails depends on where you live, you want to have the kind of traits that are common in the general population because it makes you look familiar which makes socialization a lot easier, the complicated part is that countries like america don't have a real 'average' on a national level since they're mutty as fuck, so that depends on micro-populations.

you can be ugly and have high facial averageness, and you'd be treated better than someone that's more attractive than you with low averageness, that is why it's so important.

if you go outside (wear sunscreen so you don't burn like a vampire) you'll see plenty of pretty awful looking men with seemingly attractive women, if you pay attention you'll realize they all got in common that they look super normal, even if you wouldn't consider it attractive, they might be balding, they might have a double chin, but they look extremely normal, it makes people feel safe, so despite the complete lack of facial aesthetics they still end up having more interactions, and thus more chances.
so facial harmony is a synonym for averageness which leads to high trust features which then gives you access to more women?

according to that definition your original comment can be interpreted as "the men who fuck most women can have these bad (unaverage) ratios you listed as long as their averageness is high" which just makes no sense as a comment jfl.
this thread is emphasizing the importance of ratios and you respond by agreeing and then arguing against a point i didnt make? (that having a low score in any of the listed ratios will make you unable to be chad)

@Magnum Opus an autism diagnosis is not enough to explain how this thought process happens in a brain:lul:
 
-IPD & ICD (ur not getting OBO)

-Anterior facial depth (ur not getting LF2)
Sure you can. Just as realistic as bimax (if you're really a candidate) You just have to come to Giant.
 
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It's alive & well in Istanbul.
That's great. I might go there for jaw implants down the line. Turkey is not that far for me.

Also, what are your thoughts on ramus widening? Is it very risky to do with custom plates?
 
That's great. I might go there for jaw implants down the line.

Also, what are your thoughts on ramus widening? Is it very risky to do with custom plates?
its risky withOUT custom plates. It's fine with custom plates to match 3D planning where the condyle is locked
 
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its risky withOUT custom plates. It's fine with custom plates to match 3D planning where the condyle is locked
What do you think the overall botch rate is for something like Bimax but with custom plates and the best surgeons and techniques ? I am not talking about minor problems. But big issues like TMD, non-union, severe nerve damage. chimp face etc. In other words, the sorts of issues that make you want to jump off a cliff.
 
What do you think the overall botch rate is for something like Bimax but with custom plates and the best surgeons and techniques ?
These things make a big difference.
I am not talking about minor problems.
Minor problems, simply requiring further minor treatment or no treatment but extra healing time, about 10 - 25%
But big issues like TMD, non-union, severe nerve damage.
Less than 1%
chimp face etc.
This is from bad planning/wrong aesthetic diagnosis
 
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alright since you niggas like to nitpick so bad let me rephrase what i meant:
yes fwhr is changable by increasing bizygo but that comes with decreasing esr. unless your esr is too high it'll fuck it up
same if you're getting cheekbone reduction to lower fwhr, you'll fuck up your esr unless its already too low
Retard, it’s not just changeable, increasing FWHR with filler could be a triple win for someone with high ESR, LOW TWHR/FWHR, at the same time having ideal ICD

You could fix three of these ratios with less than one syringe of HA
 

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