European surgeons who perform infraorbital implants?

[longjohnmong]

Infraorb implants are one of his specialities, he's done tons of them and has had amazing results. You seem to think he's exclusively an eye surgeon.

Saiyan boasts perhaps the best infraorb implant result that's been publicly posted and they were silicone. So, yes, visually you can get a great result from the material. He's posted here recently and said he's also had 0 resorption after many years.

Issues with silicone implants typically arise in the chin and jaw areas, mainly due to muscle movements causing erosion.

It's worth noting that experts like Eppley and Taban try to avoid using PEEK implants for the cheekbone area. ... think about that. If there was a material which gave a magically better result why wouldn't they use it? It's not because they can't place it, these are small implants compared to jaw implants. The reason why is because the Peek implants themselves are more visible on a lean face. The edges of peek implants are also thicker and less refined. This is why you see some people online complaining about step offs and visibility issues with their infraorb peek implants.

Why would the edge of PEEK be thicker than silicone? It's a harder material which seems like it would lend itself to more precision. Also, maybe he was bullshitting me, but during my consult Pagnoni threw out some figure for how thin they can get PEEK and it was some ridiculously small fraction of a mm.

And Eppley has said that the reason he doesn't use PEEK is because it's too expensive:

What benefits is there to using a PEEK implant for cheek bone/ infra orbital augmentation over the the typical silicone?

What benefits is there to using a PEEK implant for cheek bone/ infra orbital augmentation over the the typical silcone? All I know is that silicone is chea...

www.realself.com

 

[k99]

infra implants are cope literally 0 good results

 

[vma]

I got these with Pagnoni + Giant.

Giant is the best implant designer for them and Pagnoni is the best at placing them.

I wouldn't choose anybody else to do this surgery.

Taban does silicone implants afaik and they suck.

What abt jaw angles? Would u still choose them?

 

[kingofkings]

Why would the edge of PEEK be thicker than silicone? It's a harder material which seems like it would lend itself to more precision. Also, maybe he was bullshitting me, but during my consult Pagnoni threw out some figure for how thin they can get PEEK and it was some ridiculously small fraction of a mm.

And Eppley has said that the reason he doesn't use PEEK is because it's too expensive:

What benefits is there to using a PEEK implant for cheek bone/ infra orbital augmentation over the the typical silicone?

What benefits is there to using a PEEK implant for cheek bone/ infra orbital augmentation over the the typical silcone? All I know is that silicone is chea...

www.realself.com

I read through Eppley's answer in your link, and at no point does he mention that he doesn't use PEEK because it's too expensive. I mean bro Eppley even uses titanium implants if the patient requests it and is able to pay for it, which are way more expensive than PEEK ones.

Here is a quick comment I just found online from Eppley:

Can The Soft Tissue Problems From Custom PEEK Brow Bone, Infraorbital-Cheek and Jaw Angle Implants Be Fixed? - Plastic Surgeon | Dr. Barry L. Eppley, MD

Q: Dr. Eppley, I had multiple custom PEEK facial implants with another surgeonI have soft tissue problems now. Attached are videos showing face now and implants used. My problems now are: chin ptosis/lip incompetence after implant removal masseter not attached to mandible border temple...

www.eppleyplasticsurgery.com

Can The Soft Tissue Problems From Custom PEEK Brow Bone, Infraorbital-Cheek and Jaw Angle Implants Be Fixed?

"what you have in all three other areas is the almost expected sequelae of placing larger implants made out of a very stiff material that lacks feather edging…as the material does not permit it. It requires feather edging int the designs to not show the outline of the implants where they transition into the natural bone in the thinner tissues of the face"

 

[Deleted member 3463]

Why would the edge of PEEK be thicker than silicone? It's a harder material which seems like it would lend itself to more precision. Also, maybe he was bullshitting me, but during my consult Pagnoni threw out some figure for how thin they can get PEEK and it was some ridiculously small fraction of a mm.

And Eppley has said that the reason he doesn't use PEEK is because it's too expensive:

What benefits is there to using a PEEK implant for cheek bone/ infra orbital augmentation over the the typical silicone?

What benefits is there to using a PEEK implant for cheek bone/ infra orbital augmentation over the the typical silcone? All I know is that silicone is chea...

www.realself.com

The implants can never been placed exactly as they were designed it's physically impossible.
Hence, when the implants are made from a rigid material such as peek, there's a good chance that the edges would be visible on the skin surface as the improper placement even by a few mm and the rigidness of the material would not make it flushed with the natural anatomy

 

[longjohnmong]

I read through Eppley's answer in your link, and at no point does he mention that he doesn't use PEEK because it's too expensive. I mean bro Eppley even uses titanium implants if the patient requests it and is able to pay for it, which are way more expensive than PEEK ones.

Here is a quick comment I just found online from Eppley:

Can The Soft Tissue Problems From Custom PEEK Brow Bone, Infraorbital-Cheek and Jaw Angle Implants Be Fixed? - Plastic Surgeon | Dr. Barry L. Eppley, MD

Q: Dr. Eppley, I had multiple custom PEEK facial implants with another surgeonI have soft tissue problems now. Attached are videos showing face now and implants used. My problems now are: chin ptosis/lip incompetence after implant removal masseter not attached to mandible border temple...

www.eppleyplasticsurgery.com

Can The Soft Tissue Problems From Custom PEEK Brow Bone, Infraorbital-Cheek and Jaw Angle Implants Be Fixed?

"what you have in all three other areas is the almost expected sequelae of placing larger implants made out of a very stiff material that lacks feather edging…as the material does not permit it. It requires feather edging int the designs to not show the outline of the implants where they transition into the natural bone in the thinner tissues of the face"

Titanium isn't way more expensive than PEEK. Not that it's relevant to this conversation, but in some countries it's half the price of PEEK.

Here's his response:

the more important factors to consider are ease of insertion/removal and cost. It is in these issues that the significant differences between the various materials become apparent. In the U.S. there is going to be a major cost difference between PEEK and silicone for custom implant manufacture. Silicone has been and will always be a material that has been made for the cosmetic surgery market which has always been cost sensitive. A material like PEEK has its origins in reconstructive surgery market where insurance reimbursements occur and the cost of implants for those cases, where neither the surgeon or the patient is paying for it, is considerably higher by. factor of 3X to 4X. Due to U.S. las a manufacturer of a medical device can not adjust their price based on who there customer is.....the cost to the reconstructive and cosmetic patient must be the same.

He clearly thinks that cost is the most important factor. If he does use PEEK then the question is moot.

 

[Deleted member 84849]

The implants can never been placed exactly as they were designed it's physically impossible.
Hence, when the implants are made from a rigid material such as peek, there's a good chance that the edges would be visible on the skin surface as the improper placement even by a few mm and the rigidness of the material would not make it flushed with the natural anatomy

Mine are placed perfectly and blend in with my real bone cause of custom 3d implant , maybe don't go to bad surgeons who just shove prefab silicone in your face.

 

[kingofkings]

Titanium isn't way more expensive than PEEK. Not that it's relevant to this conversation, but in some countries it's half the price of PEEK.

Here's his response:



He clearly thinks that cost is the most important factor. If he does use PEEK then the question is moot.

Lmao. I'll say it to you again: At no point does he mention that he doesn't use PEEK because it's too expensive, which was your original claim.

Eppley operates in the US and he's said on record that's also where his implants are made. He's also said it adds an extra $15k to $25k on top of his usual fee if he has to source US titanium implants. I've not heard of PEEK implants adding that much cost on top of a fee before.

Logically what you're trying to argue doesn't make sense anyway. Titanium implants are clearly very expensive for Eppley. And he has no problems passing that cost onto patients. So why would Eppley say he won't use PEEK in his patients because it's too expensive.

 

[longjohnmong]

At no point does he mention that he doesn't use PEEK because it's too expensive, which was your original claim.

ackschtuallly he doesn't explicitly say he doesn't use peek

So why would Eppley say he won't use PEEK in his patients because it's too expensive.

I don't know. Ask him.