Everything about Dutasteride powder, soft gels, Avodart and tablets

[axon]

Hello guys,

I want to make a thread to clear everything about all the myths on Dutasteride, so no one is asking the same questions over and over again.


Im not gonna mention basic things like what is Dutasteride, side effects, etc because thats basic knowledge you can get from chatgpt.


Here specifically, i want to talk about 2,5mg Dutasteride and how you should ideally take it.

People mention taking the raw powder, 5x 0,5mg Avodart capsules or Dutasteride tablets (hard capsules).


Personally, i used 20mg of Dutasteride powder combined with MCT Oil for a few months to get to 96% of Scalp DHT suppression.

Now im back taking 5x 0,5mg Avodart capsules and getting around 80% real scalp DHT suppression.

A lot of other people take the powder as well, to safe money and to get up to higher dosages (5mg+).


Taking Dutasteride powder is not an option, i explain why:

Those who take raw Dutasteride powder ingest it with MCT Oil because according to research it should be the same as the Avodart and with that be almost identical.

Hear me out:

MCT oil is NOT the same as the oil that avodart uses and will not even come close to it.

Avodart uses a mono- and diglycerides of caprilic/capric.

„Our“ MCT is made of triglycerides so it has to be broken down by your own body to make mono- and diglycerides.

The mono and diglycerides of caprilic/capric used in Avodart are emulsifiers that help increase bioavailability of dutasteride and also serve as solvent.

MCT oil won’t emulsify and has very low solubility in dutasteride, so you won’t form nano droplets that are needed for dutasteride absorption since dutasteride is very high lipohilic drug Log P(=6.8).


The pill is fast dissolved in the stomach and the lecithin on the pill + the mono and diglycerides start to emulsify the dutasteride in presence of the stomach acid which is mostly made of water.

When emulsifiers/surfactants get in contact with water, they make micelles which traps the lipophilic drugs, that in other cases it would be non bioavailable to be used by the body
(the body cant metabolize dutasteride if it is not encapsulated with micelles, that is basically why taking the raw powder with water wont work and that is also why taking only oil with it wont work because it will separate from the oil in the stomach in the absence of an emulsifier)


Avodart also uses a co emulsifier that is Lecithin (which is in the capsule that is fast dissolved by GI fluids).

With this combination, Avodart achieves a good emulsification that makes the drug bioavailable.

Avodart doesn’t even have an optimised formulation, so it could definitively be improved.



To resume, if you want to make dutasteride bioavailable, you will need surfactants and cosurfactants that will make dutasteride bioavailable.

Mct will serve as the carrier oil and you will need it in order to the surfactants to form micelles but it wont dissolve the drug properly and wont do much for drug delivery without surtactants.


You can try to buy and use Lecithin like avodart but also a strong synthetic surfactant which is for example tween 80 because dutasteride has trash solubility in mct oil and getting mono and diglycerides is basically impossible to get if your not a chemist or pharmacist, or it is too expensive, so we have to rely on very potent synthetic surfactant such as tween 80 to solubilize most of the dutasteride with the help on lecithin ofc.


And this my friends is most likely impossible or not worth it.

I know people probably won’t read this shit but i also want to explain on my statements.


So please don’t use the raw powder and skip doing your own capsules.

What to do instead?


My recommendations:

0,5mg Avodart (~50% Scalp DHT suppression) + RU58841

2,5mg Avodart(~79% Scalp DHT suppression) + optional RU58841

Dutasteride Tablets from China/India (3,3mg) + RU58841

Obv 5x 0,5 Avodart can be pricey. But if you can afford it and have a source, go for it!



General advice: Combine x dosage of Dutasteride with RU58841 to never worry about hair loss again.



Few words to these „Dutasteride tablets“:


The normal soft-gel capsule Avodart has higher (obv) and more reliable systemic exposure than standard tablets or hard capsules. Tablets had ~ 70–80% of soft-gel bioavailability in the study below



https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27356530/



So it would be the best to take the equivalent of this tablets (around 3,3mg) and i would say optimally with a fatty meal.



And just to quote my last comment to finish the whole Dutasteride tablet topic



„These called „Dutasteride Tablets“ are not just pressed raw powder. They don’t have that Oil inside like Avodart, but contain certain lipohilic carriers and binding agents which help the absorption process. They are not optimal, like the things inside Avodart, but still are important for the absorption process“



Thanks for reading, it took me quite a bit of time to write everything down. Also i read about all of this in german so the translation might not be 1to1 but i gave my best.

And of course im always open for discussions on that topic!

Tagging some friends and people that might be interested: @lcberg04 @optimisticzoomer @chadisbeingmade @powerliftercoco @m0ss26 @hej1377

 

[Orka]

@optimisticzoomer getting out of norwood 30 with this thread

 

[Grievous]

Over for baldies

 

[bababoi123]

dnr just dont be bald

 

[m0ss26]

good thread bhai

I do avodart .5 mg daily since that’s the most my mom could finesse via prescription

 

[llane9]

this is interesting but I wonder how physiologically accurate it is. my own capsules have seemingly completely halted my hair loss (on 500 test, was balding pretty hard just natty previously) i do take one .5 generic dut a day tho which is worth noting. gave my buddy my own capsules tho and a few weeks in he's going through a crazy shed.

 

[optimisticzoomer]

I take 10 mg powder and an avodart

 

[powerliftercoco]

my own capsules have seemingly completely halted my hair loss
i do take one .5 generic dut a day tho which is worth noting.

I take 10 mg powder and an avodart

Fuck I wish we could have a way of measuring the effectiveness of the drugs other than by watching how much less hair you are losing/how much you regrow in the long run.

DHT blood tests are useless

Many people seem to take 1 Avodart too, just in case

 

[powerliftercoco]

@imontheloose @SlayerJonas thoughts?

 

[imontheloose]

@imontheloose @SlayerJonas thoughts?

the avodart ingredients r well known already, this is nothing new at all. all he did was tell u that pressed powder wont be adequately BA which even a child will know.

if u have B2B access from ur job like i did u can just get gly monocap n be fine using that 4 high concs but MCT oil itself is fine: it just has low solubility so ur better off jsut making a little potion for convenience unless u want me to do it 4 u.

@optimisticzoomer @chadisbeingmade @SlayerJonas

 

[axon]

the avodart ingredients r well known already, this is nothing new at all. all he did was tell u that pressed powder wont be adequately BA which even a child will know.

if u have B2B access from ur job like i did u can just get gly monocap n be fine using that 4 high concs but MCT oil itself is fine: it just has low solubility so ur better off jsut making a little potion for convenience unless u want me to do it 4 u.

@optimisticzoomer @chadisbeingmade @SlayerJonas

So you still think that MCT oil itself is fine? Then please explain it and not just make random statements. Did you even read a single word of the thread?
This forum sometimes really pisses me of because of people like you

 

[imontheloose]

So you still think that MCT oil itself is fine?

not 4 long term usage bc oxygen exists which is y u can use bht or vitamin e, i use both. mct can work obviously, it jsut isnt that soluble so u cant fit a solely mct cap in a .5mL softgel

u cna easily just make 2 week batches of mct solution n ingest X amount daily n be fine without an antiox so long as u cover it. u arent gonna get production line BA but that doesnt matter. the half life is high asf anyway n the curves tend to one another closely as it saturates.

u germans used to be clever n now u take 3-4 months of research to say that pressed dut powder isnt that BA

 

[axon]

not 4 long term usage bc oxygen exists which is y u can use bht or vitamin e, i use both. mct can work obviously, it jsut isnt that soluble so u cant fit a solely mct cap in a .5mL softgel

u cna easily just make 2 week batches of mct solution n ingest X amount daily n be fine without an antiox so long as u cover it. u arent gonna get production line BA but that doesnt matter. the half life is high asf anyway n the curves tend to one another closely as it saturates.

u germans used to be clever n now u take 3-4 months of research to say that pressed dut powder isnt that BA

Nice bro you completely missed the whole point. Speaking about oxidation which I didn’t even cover.
I doubt you even need BHT or Vitamine E if you make weekly batches

I made the thread about the absorption process. Good job for getting your antioxidants, it won’t absorb anyway

 

[imontheloose]

I doubt you even need BHT or Vitamine E if you make weekly batches

which is what i said. i said 4 long term u do n u can just make weekly batches n not need to worry abt that

I made the thread about the absorption process. Good job for getting your antioxidants, it won’t absorb anyway

i use ingredients which avodart doesnt bc i used to work in the manufacturing industry so i can get these b2b chems. im sure i am fine with absorbing as r the ppl who get them from me. they dont need some grey retard who spent a quart just to misunderstand all rationale behind the very topic he spoke abt

 

[axon]

which is what i said. i said 4 long term u do n u can just make weekly batches n not need to worry abt that

i use ingredients which avodart doesnt bc i used to work in the manufacturing industry so i can get these b2b chems. im sure i am fine with absorbing as r the ppl who get them from me. they dont need some grey retard who spent a quart just to misunderstand all rationale behind the very topic he spoke abt

Good for you. 99% of people doesn’t have access to them.
Thats why i made this thread.
So all in all you agree with me. Otherwise you wouldn’t use „other ingredients“ from you manufacturing background.
But „MCT is fine bro“

 

[imontheloose]

Good for you. 99% of people doesn’t have access to them.
Thats why i made this thread.
So all in all you agree with me. Otherwise you wouldn’t use „other ingredients“ from you manufacturing background.
But „MCT is fine bro“

mct is fine for layman's manufacturing, yes. its just bad solubility n is vulnerable to external inputs so we optimise.

ill explain this to u like a child, silly german. firstly, think of what the gi tract is for. in vivo, all ur bile salts, p-lipids n lipases will easily emulsify the mct. i mean, again, its legit what the tract is 4. now, what happens in the intestine to a triglyceride? it become 2 mono glycerides and some free fatty acids, right? they literally, themselves, form those mixed micelles that solubilise dut or any lipophilic drug 4 that matter.

avodart just predigests it by using diff glycerides, its just optimisation like i do with my capsules, and all others do.

u also quoted https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27356530/ which literally tells u tablet auc is abt 75% of a softgel so its not even in a diff universe then. even a basic homemade mct fill is gonna land in that pk area.

making optimised vehicles is ideal but a home made lipid solution is so easy n isnt far off at all. theyre a pharma company n have strict regulations. i optimise bc i simply can n why wouldnt i? @SlayerJonas @chadisbeingmade

 

[hej1377]

Personally, i used 20mg of Dutasteride powder combined with MCT Oil for a few months to get to 96% of Scalp DHT suppression.

Can you link the studies? Ivebeen looking for studies on dut with doses over 2,5mg but havent found shit

 

[hej1377]

Also good thread

But why could we just use something more emulifying than mct?

And forgive me if this is retarded but couldn't you add it to your test and inject it? I feel like even if it doesnt dissolve very well shouldnt the long half life make it sble to eventually enter the blood stream but that might just be retarded as its a spontaneous and not a thought through idea

 

[axon]

Can you link the studies? Ivebeen looking for studies on dut with doses over 2,5mg but havent found shit

I referred to these calculations. Its not 100% confirmed its like that but its all we have atm

GitHub - FuzzyCat444/Dutasteride-Pharmacokinetics-Pharmacodynamics: A powerful predictor of the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of dutasteride by dose, based on papers by Per Olsson Gisleskog, David Hermann, Margareta Hammarlund-Udenaes, Mats O

A powerful predictor of the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of dutasteride by dose, based on papers by Per Olsson Gisleskog, David Hermann, Margareta Hammarlund-Udenaes, Mats O. Karlsson. Pre...

github.com

 

[hej1377]

I referred to these calculations. Its not 100% confirmed its like that but its all we have atm

GitHub - FuzzyCat444/Dutasteride-Pharmacokinetics-Pharmacodynamics: A powerful predictor of the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of dutasteride by dose, based on papers by Per Olsson Gisleskog, David Hermann, Margareta Hammarlund-Udenaes, Mats O

A powerful predictor of the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of dutasteride by dose, based on papers by Per Olsson Gisleskog, David Hermann, Margareta Hammarlund-Udenaes, Mats O. Karlsson. Pre...

github.com

Thanks dude, evidence, super credible or not its something ive been looking for

 

[Soter]

unrelated and might be a dumb question, but are generics just as effective as avodart?

 

[axon]

unrelated and might be a dumb question, but are generics just as effective as avodart?

No question is dumb.

Yes. Dutasteride is Dutasteride. I also used Turkish and Bulgarian generic Soft gel capsules in the past.
As long as they are soft gels, its fine.

 

[Soter]

No question is dumb.

Yes. Dutasteride is Dutasteride. I also used Turkish and Bulgarian generic Soft gel capsules in the past.
As long as they are soft gels, its fine.

I've heard some anecdotes where people still had hairloss on generics until they switched to another generic or avodart

 

[axon]

I've heard some anecdotes where people still had hairloss on generics until they switched to another generic or avodart

Yes i also heard them. But these are just anecdotes.
People use x different generic forms of Finasteride, Accutane, Dutasteride, etc. every day.

From a pharmaceutical point of view it does not make any sense. When you get it from a real pharmacy its 100% the same.
Sometimes people are delusional

 

[lcberg04]

Obv 5x 0,5 Avodart can be pricey. But if you can afford it and have a source, go for it!

Good thread, seems like that would still be cheaper than (or roughly in the same ballpark as) combining dutasteride with RU58841 right?
Usually have to be pay 80-100$ for 10g of tested RU with shipping so it would be in a similar price range since 90 caps of avodart dut cost around 60 bucks.
Currently on finasteride i am considering switching to dutasteride in the next months. Have you been on finasteride before dut? If yes did you experience any significant shedding when you switched?

 

[Soter]

Have you been on finasteride before dut? If yes did you experience any significant shedding when you switched?

I have tbh, even though I tried to switch to dut slowly, going from 1x dut 6xfin a week, then after a few months 2xdut 4xfin. but when i switched from 3 times a week to 5 times a week I had a large shed. It's fine though, means it's working

 

[axon]

Good thread, seems like that would still be cheaper than (or roughly in the same ballpark as) combining dutasteride with RU58841 right?
Usually have to be pay 80-100$ for 10g of tested RU with shipping so it would be in a similar price range since 90 caps of avodart dut cost around 60 bucks.
Currently on finasteride i am considering switching to dutasteride in the next months. Have you been on finasteride before dut? If yes did you experience any significant shedding when you switched?

Yes you could say so. Also depends on where you get it from etc

I just realised its actually a bit more expensive to use 5x Avodart. I pay 78€ for 5 boxes.
(My TeleClinic source was the one i used before. Now i have a friend thats a doctor who prescribes me the DUT)
The 90x 0,5mg DUT package with RU powder is still a lot cheaper
I have been on Finasteride before for around 3 years. I didn’t have any shedding tbh and Finasteride still worked fine. Just wanted the skin benefits.
When i switched i made sure to use FIN for an additional 2 months together with DUT for the transition phase.

 

[lcberg04]

Yes you could say so. Also depends on where you get it from etc

I just realised its actually a bit more expensive to use 5x Avodart. I pay 78€ for 5 boxes.
(My TeleClinic source was the one i used before. Now i have a friend thats a doctor who prescribes me the DUT)
The 90x 0,5mg DUT package with RU powder is still a lot cheaper
I have been on Finasteride before for around 3 years. I didn’t have any shedding tbh and Finasteride still worked fine. Just wanted the skin benefits.
When i switched i made sure to use FIN for an additional 2 months together with DUT for the transition phase.

yeah you're right my bad.
Assuming we get 90 Caps for 60€ and we take 5 caps a day that would only leave us with 18 doses obv. So for a full month we'd need 12 more doses so an additional 60 caps so another 40 € bucks.
So 100€ a month for a full month of 2.5mg/day of avodart in germany
vs only around 20€ a month for 0.5mg dut a day + 3-4g a month of RU58841 (assuming we get 10g of RU for 90-100€) so around 25-30 Euro more.
So in total 45-55 Euro with 0.5mg dut and RU.

Finasteride is just kind of not working for me but maybe i should wait longer idk. Still experiencing some shedding on 1mg of finasteride a day, i am on it for about 4 months now. Maybe i really need DUT to beat the norwood reaper