Explain philosophy. What is the appeal. Why learn it? What does it do/what value does it add?

[wollet2]

What do you mean, Chinese philosophy is mostly practical, common sense ideas not useless mental masturbation.

"People should give up worldy desires in favor of nature and the Dao" wtf is this coping oldcel supposed to mean but sounds like horseshit

 

[wollet2]

"People should give up worldy desires in favor of nature and the Dao" wtf is this coping oldcel supposed to mean but sounds like horseshit

practicality jumped out of the window or maybe im having a differnet idea of it in my mind. what a load of horseshit

"good behaviour should be rewarded" cage. what is good behaviour and how should it be rewarded

"governments should not make rules or laws" lol why?

"people should avoid extremes of behaviour and should aim for moderation in all things" sounds good (?) but why, should we be extreme against bad things like racism and nazism

 

[Gonthar]

its vague bs and maybe a way of life that appeals to some people nothing else

What do you mean, what's so vague about respecting your parents, following the leaders, etc.

"People should give up worldy desires in favor of nature and the Dao" wtf is this coping oldcel supposed to mean but sounds like horseshit

Yes - the Dao says that people should live more simple, be one with nature, etc.

practicality jumped out of the window or maybe im having a differnet idea of it in my mind. what a load of horseshit
"good behaviour should be rewarded" cage

Yes, what's so weird about this?

 

[thenewhebbe]

As everything its based on baseless assumptions

 

[wollet2]

What do you mean, what's so vague about respecting your parents, following the leaders, etc.

Yes - the Dao says that people should live more simple, be one with nature, etc.

Yes, what's so weird about this?

its vague because u interpret it as "respecting your parents" while others view it more tribalistic and extreme and a reason to actively disregard or even harm other people because they dont belong in "the family" . there are also (rare) cases where you are not obliged to respect your parents if they are shit human beings

i just dont understand their obsession with "should", why should someone live like this if the lifestyle didnt appeal to them or makes them happy. there is not grand thing in here or intelligent thought put behind this, its just poor rural old coping oldcels telling people how they should live based on what sounds good and comfortable to them

who decides what is exactly good behaviour, all forms/degrees of it and how should each one of them be rewarded. obv "good behaviour should be rewarded" yeah ok and "i want to feel good all the time"

 

[Deleted member 29796]

that’s idealism model that has never happened, maybe it’s possible in vacuum but definetly not through education.

I think you have the belief that everyone shares these values with you, maybe it’s repressed, but it can come out of them -instead of everyone being malleable toward different values that might be no worse (yours are the higher form innate to humanity), it will lead to personal improvement and better/higher/more harmony society

but that is an interesting set of philosophical premises and value judgements I am not convinced of


probably not, public education beyond health class (wear a condom, there is a bin in front) level lessons doesn’t leave much different in terms of the subject they teach.

who was Diocletian, where is Angola, what is an ionic compound, find the instantaneous rate of change at the point

but you expect the average person to take on a system of reasoning completely foreign to them and contrary to typical thought processes? And why? Because they want to be moral and avoid contradictions?

provide an example of this irl please

I can’t see more than maybe 1/10 people caring, maybe they pretend to talking to you or kinda sorta care but not enough to change their life, it’s repressed. So yea better probability

Current me would end this exchange here because you aren't engaging chartibll, for example, you are making some VAST assumptions about my position, I would highlight them but who is to say you don't do again, even after explaining more? I could include more but then that leads to people reading less. But even here:

I think you have the belief that everyone shares these values with you, maybe it’s repressed, but it can come out of them -instead of everyone being malleable toward different values that might be no worse (yours are the higher form innate to humanity), it will lead to personal improvement and better/higher/more harmony society

I'm a determinist, think of how that approach would handle what is quoted above and the idea of people "malleable", I'm more likely to believe a person is malleable than the average person, even the average philosopher doesn't hold to that level.


And here:

probably not, public education beyond health class (wear a condom, there is a bin in front) level lessons doesn’t leave much different in terms of the subject they teach.

Who says I'm fine with the current public education system? Who says it isn't better to instill a system that would have more influence than our current system? Who says that isn't possible? These are all reasonable assumptions, have I not demonstrated an ability for reasonable assumptions? If so, why are you charging me with this? This is something I would have to respond to, it's a challenge in your reply.

but you expect the average person to take on a system of reasoning completely foreign to them and contrary to typical thought processes? And why? Because they want to be moral and avoid contradictions?

What do you honestly think my position is on this? I could flush out my understanding of this topic, but I honestly don't feel like it, and can you blame me? Put simply, I think we can improve the average person, I think we can educate the average person, I think the average person can be influenced by their education, I think that influence can make the difference in the decisions, I think those decisions over time can be pushed, even slightly, to bring ideal improvements over time. Do I have to break down all of that or will you question what is the average person, what the average person is physically capable of, etc, etc.

provide an example of this irl please

And consider how absurd this request is, I don't even know what you are requesting because everything up to this point has been so absurd that I'm not sure if you are asking me to provide an example of a mind being influenced, a mind being influenced with something that is contradictory to their "system of reasoning", or an example of someone taking on something because "they want to be moral and avoid contradictions?" (your words).

How the fuck could I even prove any of that? Think about it charitably though, a mind can be influenced, obviously. A mind can take on information contradictory to their systems, it's literally education, and then confirmation bias comes in, but confirmation bias doesn't imply that one will always reject new information that conflicts with beliefs, there is a possibility to accept new info. And on the third point, I have never suggested any of that, I don't even know what you are talking about. I think you think my understanding of humans is so shit tier, that I think that humans just require a minor shove and they will do good because good and eventually everyone will be good, according to my plan. I honestly don't know what the fuck you are getting at.

 

[Deleted member 29796]

@incel194012940

That last post was an invite to charity, if that improves, I don't mind replying for a long fucking time. But I'm dealing with basic strawmans, in a vocal setting, that's fine to an extent, but on a forum, fuck that, that's me typing a storm to reply to every fucking charge, just to be charged with more nonsense.

 

[Gonthar]

its vague because u interpret it as "respecting your parents" while others view it more tribalistic and extreme and a reason to actively disregard or even harm other people because they dont belong in "the family" . there are also (rare) cases where you are not obliged to respect your parents if they are shit human beings

i just dont understand their obsession with "should", why should someone live like this if the lifestyle didnt appeal to them or makes them happy. there is not grand thing in here or intelligent thought put behind this, its just poor old coping oldcels telling people how they should live based on what sounds good and comfortable to them

who decides what is exactly good personality, all forms/degrees of it and how should each one of them be rewarded. obv "good behaviour should be rewarded" yeah ok and "i want to feel good all the time"

You always respect your parents! It's just how society works better, families become stronger, people have something to live for, the west looks like is now trying to destroy the whole idea of family.

 

[wollet2]

You always respect your parents! It's just how society works better, families become stronger, people have something to live for, the west looks like is now trying to destroy the whole idea of family.

i prefer western lifestyle than chinese/eastern

the west is not trying to destroy the idea of family, just challenge your narrow and false idea of it

 

[Deleted member 29796]

@incel194012940

And for anyone else, if you think I'm missing something simple, something reasonable, odds are, I just didn't include it. I actually don't enjoy typing, contrary to the amount of typing I'm doing, and that's because I type slow as fuck (60-70WPM), which I will improve.

If you are reasonable, the only real points of disagreement with me are going to come down to empathy. My level of empathy will influence my decisions, so it's pretty rare that I would challenge someone with being outright "wrong", when someone is "wrong", from my perspective, there are formal fallacies, there are contradictions, etc., they are structurally wrong. Anything we disagree on, I just try to convince them of my position and give my reasoning why.


Odds are someone like me and @Crusile don't agree on much, but things work with him because he is smart enough to converse with without me having to explain every fucking detail. I could start on page one of this thread and go sentence for sentence creating a shit ton of sperpeate arguments, but I have an idea of what people are getting at, I will only challenge them when it's really difficult for me to discern a point, but charity comes before that and after.


Put simply, I'm likely the biggest "soycuck" on this forum, from veganism to anything else under the sun. But I can still talk to anyone, see their argument charitably, and work with it reasonably. I just ask for charity in discussion, at all times, from either side. I will never intentionally strawman you for points, at least without admitting to it when charged with doing it. I'm not strawmanning here though, you are primarily asking questions, I just think those questions are practically answered and I don't feel like going back and forth on every little thing. Normally I would invite people to discord to flush everything out but I actually don't trust you school threats.

 

[incel194012940]

Current me would end this exchange here because you aren't engaging chartibll, for example, you are making some VAST assumptions about my position, I would highlight them but who is to say you don't do again, even after explaining more? I could include more but then that leads to people reading less. But even here:



I'm a determinist, think of how that approach would handle what is quoted above and the idea of people "malleable", I'm more likely to believe a person is malleable than the average person, even the average philosopher doesn't hold to that level.


And here:



Who says I'm fine with the current public education system? Who says it isn't better to instill a system that would have more influence than our current system? Who says that isn't possible? These are all reasonable assumptions, have I not demonstrated an ability for reasonable assumptions? If so, why are you charging me with this? This is something I would have to respond to, it's a challenge in your reply.




What do you honestly think my position is on this? I could flush out my understanding of this topic, but I honestly don't feel like it, and can you blame me? Put simply, I think we can improve the average person, I think we can educate the average person, I think the average person can be influenced by their education, I think that influence can make the difference in the decisions, I think those decisions over time can be pushed, even slightly, to bring ideal improvements over time. Do I have to break down all of that or will you question what is the average person, what the average person is physically capable of, etc, etc.



And consider how absurd this request is, I don't even know what you are requesting because everything up to this point has been so absurd that I'm not sure if you are asking me to provide an example of a mind being influenced, a mind being influenced with something that is contradictory to their "system of reasoning", or an example of someone taking on something because "they want to be moral and avoid contradictions?" (your words).

How the fuck could I even prove any of that? Think about it charitably though, a mind can be influenced, obviously. A mind can take on information contradictory to their systems, it's literally education, and then confirmation bias comes in, but confirmation bias doesn't imply that one will always reject new information that conflicts with beliefs, there is a possibility to accept new info. And on the third point, I have never suggested any of that, I don't even know what you are talking about. I think you think my understanding of humans is so shit tier, that I think that humans just require a minor shove and they will do good because good and eventually everyone will be good, according to my plan. I honestly don't know what the fuck you are getting at.

Im trying to be charitable I genuinely don’t understand these ways of thinking because I have never thought these thoughts, that’s why I made the thread

i don’t think what you’re saying is that different, I think you just believe in morality theres right things to do that you can discover by thinking and having more knowledge. that things can be “improved” and that there are better and worse things from a perspective of morality.

These are things I have just never considered so if I said something that seemed to be a different position it’s because I don’t have a frame of reference (why I made this thread) and might be copying things I think are same but for you are opposite opinions

personally I have never thought about a moral decision, I feel something and then I use logic to find out what to do, I would never question a feeling (is it moral is it right?) and I would never do anything because it’s the “right” thing to do unless it gives me money power status respect ect

if I had orders to do something I felt wrong about I would do it but also cry about it and feel bad and those things would have nothing to do with each other

if I knew moral arguments it would never be something I use for making internal decisions but only as something to manipulate and impress others with

 

[Deleted member 29796]

@incel194012940

Yeah, I will reply to your comment when I get the chance. I understand that you are just asking questions, I mentioned that at one point, I'm just jaded and irritable as fuck.

I will reply later, some things I can answer, some things I would never claim I could answer. Just know, I'm always working from chance, so I'm never 100% sure about anything, my mind is always open to changing when, from a probability approach, the path is seemingly clearer and with less errors.

I get to where I am by being corrected, I'm corrected all the time and I welcome it.

 

[Deleted member 26116]

In fact in China there are banned all sorts of stuff that make you waste your mental energy in pointless mental gymnastics, like movies and tv shows about time travel - I mean it's not real, it can't be done, why even think or fantasize about it when it serves no real life purpose?

Really? That's pretty smart and based. China all the way!

 

[looksmaxxed]

watch this video about slaughterdyke, it explains why reading is just cucking yourself

 

[anticel]

People like philosophy because it can help us escape the mental slavery that most of us are under. Most modern philosophers were broken men that were coping with their existence - in ancient times philosophy was about more, like training the body as much as it was about training the spirit. There is one exception which is Nietzsche who is based and tried to bring the spirit of ancient times in our modern world - can get lots of inspiration from him.

 

[Deleted member 29796]

Im trying to be charitable I genuinely don’t understand these ways of thinking because I have never thought these thoughts, that’s why I made the thread

i don’t think what you’re saying is that different, I think you just believe in morality theres right things to do that you can discover by thinking and having more knowledge. that things can be “improved” and that there are better and worse things from a perspective of morality.

These are things I have just never considered so if I said something that seemed to be a different position it’s because I don’t have a frame of reference (why I made this thread) and might be copying things I think are same but for you are opposite opinions




if I knew moral arguments it would never be something I use for making internal decisions but only as something to manipulate and impress others with

I still remembered your reply bro, I'm just all over the place with things:

It's possible there is an objective right, that is something I consider, I think the problem is, and I accept it for now, is that there are things we will likely never know and things we won't have time to find out. I suppose my core position could best be summarized as "reducing overall suffering and improving overall wellbeing". With that goal there are endless ways to reach it, from wiping out every living thing capable of suffering to installing the most egalitarian system of all time to accommodate everyone to the best of our ability.

Truth is though, I have an idea of what is right, I think you can influence minds to think your way, so I aim to do what influences minds to think they way I think. That's really all it boils down to at the moment, yeah, I will eventually dive into the philosophy of it but for now, it is a of rhetoric and those aligning with me are currently losing, bigly.

personally I have never thought about a moral decision, I feel something and then I use logic to find out what to do, I would never question a feeling (is it moral is it right?) and I would never do anything because it’s the “right” thing to do unless it gives me money power status respect ect

I wasn't questioning actions as a teen when engaging with politics and religion, but now, yeah, I do consider the morality of an action before committing to it, although I have a great deal of empathy, so my empathy checks me beforehand. I even consider the moral impact of an action after it has been committed, in order to improve future behavior. You know, as a teen I question moral issues, like gay marriage, religious indoctrination, etc., but no, consider, the teenaged brain isn't really physically capable of thinking complex moral issues out, teens will usually act first and have little regard for long term consideration. Long Term consideration is pinnacle to morality.

if I had orders to do something I felt wrong about I would do it but also cry about it and feel bad and those things would have nothing to do with each other

Yeah and that's the emotional, human, and illogical side of things, but morality can offer us a logical perspective. And this is important because, we don't all have the same level of empathy, so what might make you cry could be pleasure for the next man. That's a physical difference, happening in the brain, if either one of you assumed direct control of a nation it could have drastically different outcomes, morality would serve as a check to educating the base so that outcomes like that don't play out, regardless of our physical differences. So long as we live in a society, want to benefit from a society, we have to maintain morality, we can't be swayed purely by our emotions and going with the flow.

if I knew moral arguments it would never be something I use for making internal decisions but only as something to manipulate and impress others with

Must of us are manipulating others with arguments and ideas, to some extent.

 

[incel194012940]

I still remembered your reply bro, I'm just all over the place with things:

It's possible there is an objective right, that is something I consider, I think the problem is, and I accept it for now, is that there are things we will likely never know and things we won't have time to find out. I suppose my core position could best be summarized as "reducing overall suffering and improving overall wellbeing". With that goal there are endless ways to reach it, from wiping out every living thing capable of suffering to installing the most egalitarian system of all time to accommodate everyone to the best of our ability.

Truth is though, I have an idea of what is right, I think you can influence minds to think your way, so I aim to do what influences minds to think they way I think. That's really all it boils down to at the moment, yeah, I will eventually dive into the philosophy of it but for now, it is a of rhetoric and those aligning with me are currently losing, bigly.


I wasn't questioning actions as a teen when engaging with politics and religion, but now, yeah, I do consider the morality of an action before committing to it, although I have a great deal of empathy, so my empathy checks me beforehand. I even consider the moral impact of an action after it has been committed, in order to improve future behavior. You know, as a teen I question moral issues, like gay marriage, religious indoctrination, etc., but no, consider, the teenaged brain isn't really physically capable of thinking complex moral issues out, teens will usually act first and have little regard for long term consideration. Long Term consideration is pinnacle to morality.



Yeah and that's the emotional, human, and illogical side of things, but morality can offer us a logical perspective. And this is important because, we don't all have the same level of empathy, so what might make you cry could be pleasure for the next man. That's a physical difference, happening in the brain, if either one of you assumed direct control of a nation it could have drastically different outcomes, morality would serve as a check to educating the base so that outcomes like that don't play out, regardless of our physical differences. So long as we live in a society, want to benefit from a society, we have to maintain morality, we can't be swayed purely by our emotions and going with the flow.




Must of us are manipulating others with arguments and ideas, to some extent.

interesting

it would be the thread of century to see you debate with your philosophical opposite, like these uninhibited beast posters

https://looksmax.org/threads/brutally-eviscerated-my-entire-philosophy-cope-this-morning.539247

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