Facepulling with cortipuncture could work?

[Cauã]

This is just a dumb idea I had, and I was wondering if maybe it would work, or if it's pure autism,and I would like to make it very clear that I have NO idea if this works or not.

Can a Facepulling device with cortipuncture in the palate cause some foward growth even in adults?

I believe that forward growth happens when a person from an early age holds the entire tongue (especially the back third of the tongue) across the roof of the mouth. I also believe that the forward growth happens thanks to this suture here.

So maybe doing a cortipuncture there can cause the maxilla to grow forward, along with a facepulling device? the cortipuncture wouldnt need to be an exact cut, but something like that might work.

I would like to know if this is pure autism or if it makes any sense, if it does,maybe it would be good to do some research on it, talk to some doctors, try to convince them to do it, or maybe do it on your own to try to have good forward growth of the maxilla

 

[Deleted member 14323]

I dunno but can you mark me as solved?

 

[Deleted member 11550]

forward growth is genetic, mewing is a cope

 

[Deleted member 15405]

Why would you only get a corticopuncture just for facemask? Get MSE and actually have all the sutures disrupted for stronger results. Also you need bone anchored appliances like MSE to get the entire midface forward.

 

[Deleted member 6423]

this is a recurring question here and to my knowledge nobody knows the actual efficacy of facepulling for forward growth combined with mse, it’s just something that seems like it should work

 

[Lorsss]

I did facepulling during the first two months of covid19 lockdown.
I built a facepulling neckbrace and a facepulling helmet. They were connected to a palatal appliance.

The facepulling neckbrace resulted as impossible to wear: it paralized the neck and the pressure on vertebrae even caused me paresthesia on hands.

The facepulling motorcycle helmet had a defect: the helmet used to slip downward, since the facepulling force was 30 degrees upward

The only decent facepuller is the registered trademark "the bow". But it's only designed for children

Besides all theese problems, the palatal appliance causes a proonged pain and emission of saliva out of the mouth.

After reading studies I realized facepulling would require a commitment of 14 hours a day for 12 months to get few millimeters of forward growth.
With corticopuncture the speed would be much faster, but a palatal facepuller is a literal torture

 

[Fart mic]

forward growth is genetic, mewing is a cope

It's not lol my dad has good forward growth but I slept with my mouth opened so I got shitty forward growth

 

[uranio]

It won’t work, you need a bone anchored appliance, and even with that you can achieve 3 mm at best wich isn’t enough to see a noticeable improvement

 

[Cauã]

I did facepulling during the first two months of covid19 lockdown.
I built a facepulling neckbrace and a facepulling helmet. They were connected to a palatal appliance.

The facepulling neckbrace resulted as impossible to wear: it paralized the neck and the pressure on vertebrae even caused me paresthesia on hands.

The facepulling motorcycle helmet had a defect: the helmet used to slip downward, since the facepulling force was 30 degrees upward

The only decent facepuller is the registered trademark "the bow". But it's only designed for children

Besides all theese problems, the palatal appliance causes a proonged pain and emission of saliva out of the mouth.

After reading studies I realized facepulling would require a commitment of 14 hours a day for 12 months to get few millimeters of forward growth.
With corticopuncture the speed would be much faster, but a palatal facepuller is a literal torture

In case this whole idea started in this post here

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-pull-your-maxilla-forward-definitive-guide.45691/

The guy posts how to make the facepulling device and even posts a study carried out on adult monkeys. In theory it should work in humans too, because apes have much tougher and tougher bones than humans, and apes are adults too.

I thought maybe the minimum time you should be facepulling was 12 hours and not 14, and also the study showed that in 4 months the monkeys' skulls changed completely, but the guy who made the post recommended that you stay for 2 years to maintain results or maybe get more results. It is also worth mentioning that only 500g of force were applied to the monkeys' skulls and even so there was a huge difference, but you could apply up to 1kg, 1.5kg calmly. The guy in the post himself said he was applying 1.5kg on his device.

In this case a lot of people said that it didn't work, but I thought maybe with cortipuncture it might have a better chance of working, since the sutures don't close completely until 90, but as our adult bones are stronger and less moldable, it would be needed a greater stimulus and greater strength to move the skull.

I was going to do his version with the neck brace, are you sure the neck brace you bought was tough? Why also sell a soft version of it, which is not suitable for building this device. The "bow" can be bought and used easily, it's not just for kids, what really makes the difference is the infra-oral apliance, which go inside the mouth, not the stuff that hangs out, since you can hang it even the rubber bands on the wall if you like.

 

[Cauã]

Why would you only get a corticopuncture just for facemask? Get MSE and actually have all the sutures disrupted for stronger results. Also you need bone anchored appliances like MSE to get the entire midface forward.

unfortunately there is no MSE in my country. to be honest there is, but it's far from where I live, like 3 states away, so maybe I wouldn't be able to go there for now. And the MSE FM has a support that rests on the chin, preventing the forward growth of the jaw

 

[Deleted member 15405]

unfortunately there is no MSE in my country. to be honest there is, but it's far from where I live, like 3 states away, so maybe I wouldn't be able to go there for now. And the MSE FM has a support that rests on the chin, preventing the forward growth of the jaw

Common belief that there is any forward growth in the jaw at all during the facemask process. The growth of the jaw has to do with the position of the dental arch. The growth of the jaw cannot be replicated without surgery. I had MSE/FM, the mandible does not “follow” it doesn’t “rotate” the midface simply goes forward and creates an overjet.

 

[Lorsss]

The guy posts how to make the facepulling device and even posts a study carried out on adult monkeys. In theory it should work in humans too, because apes have much tougher and tougher bones than humans, and apes are adults too.

I thought maybe the minimum time you sh

stop coping with Facepulling, Cope and Rope gave up few days after building the facepuler and exactly last week he underwent double jaw surgery with Dr. Pary in Brazil.

> the monkey study does not matter because monkeys wore the appliance 24 hours a day

> In 2013 orthodontists published a paper in which they explain how they fixed the maxillary deficiency of an adult woman. After 17 months applying a force of 0.5 kilograms for 14 hours a day, the woman obtained a maxillary growth of 1.7 millimiters. This number was enough to correct the malocclusion of the woman, however 1.7 millimeters is not enough to consider Facepulling a satisfying looksmaxxing technique, since Bimaxillary surgery can achieve 10+ millimeters of maxillary forward growth in 2 hours.
Currently there are no scientific studies involving a maxillary protraction with stronger forces applied on the maxilla.
CopeAndRope recommended to facepull with 2kilograms of force, but I found out more than 1kg is not possible due to pain

> no maxillofacial doctor will recommend or perform corticopuncture on you

 

[Cauã]

forward growth is genetic, mewing is a cope

look at this here



This boy was treated with a myobrace device, which is a device that forces the patient to breathe through the nose, in addition to having exercises to strengthen the tongue and keep it in the roof of the mouth. In other words, it is a device that forces the person to practice mewing. Just look how it makes a tremendous difference in the child's face, he goes from subhuman to chad just with mewing

 

[Cauã]

stop coping with Facepulling, Cope and Rope gave up few days after building the facepuler and exactly last week he underwent double jaw surgery with Dr. Pary in Brazil.

> the monkey study does not matter because monkeys wore the appliance 24 hours a day

> In 2013 orthodontists published a paper in which they explain how they fixed the maxillary deficiency of an adult woman. After 17 months applying a force of 0.5 kilograms for 14 hours a day, the woman obtained a maxillary growth of 1.7 millimiters. This number was enough to correct the malocclusion of the woman, however 1.7 millimeters is not enough to consider Facepulling a satisfying looksmaxxing technique, since Bimaxillary surgery can achieve 10+ millimeters of maxillary forward growth in 2 hours.
Currently there are no scientific studies involving a maxillary protraction with stronger forces applied on the maxilla.
CopeAndRope recommended to facepull with 2kilograms of force, but I found out more than 1kg is not possible due to pain

> no maxillofacial doctor will recommend or perform corticopuncture on you

so the only option left is surgery, there is nothing to do. Unfortunately surgery is out of my reach at the moment, I don't work, and I don't have money. and I also doubt that any doctor will do any surgery on me like lefort just for aesthetic reasons. I was at home this whole time during the pandemic, doing nothing all day, so maybe staying with this thing all day would not be difficult if I didn't have excruciating pain, but I'm so poor I don't have the money to build this device and now I won't have time either, because now everything is getting back to normal.

In this case, I live in Brazil, here there is a public health system and orthognathic surgery can be done for free if it is proven that I really need it, but I don't have much hope, because the ortho said that my bite is class 1, and with just a slightly recessed chin it may not be possible to have the surgery for free. And I also have a question, is orthognathic surgery a good idea to looksmax?

 

[Lorsss]

so the only option left is surgery, there is nothing to do. Unfortunately surgery is out of my reach at the moment, I don't work, and I don't have money. and I also doubt that any doctor will do any surgery on me like lefort just for aesthetic reasons.

yes, surgery is the only way to improve the appearance of your palate and the lower third of your face.

is orthognathic surgery a good idea to looksmax?

if you have underbite, overbite or significant maxillary deficienty then orthognatic surgery is definetely a good idea and you should undergo it as soon as possible, as you have the money. In some countries it's possible to undergo a free orthognatic surgery if doctor consider it useful to cure the bite

if you have a facial recession that makes you slightly ugly or average looking, then you should consider that this surgery requires a huge investment of money and time to recover. So in this case getting bimax has much less priority among expensive things that would make your life better

 

[Lorsss]

look at this here



This boy was treated with a myobrace device, which is a device that forces the patient to breathe through the nose, in addition to having exercises to strengthen the tongue and keep it in the roof of the mouth. In other words, it is a device that forces the person to practice mewing. Just look how it makes a tremendous difference in the child's face, he goes from subhuman to chad just with mewing

it was already scientifically proven that mouth breathing causes deformities in the jaws.
Mike Mew did not discover anything new. He became famous because he said that any adult may change the way he looks by improving his tongue posture, however Mike Mew said that without scientific evidence/

Even my science teacher in 2010, while explaining how humans breath, recommended to us students to breath with our nose

 

[Cauã]

Common belief that there is any forward growth in the jaw at all during the facemask process. The growth of the jaw has to do with the position of the dental arch. The growth of the jaw cannot be replicated without surgery. I had MSE/FM, the mandible does not “follow” it doesn’t “rotate” the midface simply goes forward and creates an overjet.

can you explain this to me better in a detailed way, because I thought the mandible would follow the maxilla if the maxilla went forward.

I thought an overjet would be caused by other reasons, like finger suction, or that the inter-canine suture (the one furthest in front of the palate, it's there in the image in my post) grew a lot, making only the front part the palate to grow, not reposition the entire maxilla.

In this case, the FM created by the orthodontists was made to cure a class 3 bite without surgical intervention, in this case, for patients with a class 3 bite, the mandible does not need to go forward, but only the maxilla, hence the chin support. In addition, the infra-oral appliance, which goes inside the mouth, is fixed to the teeth and not the maxilla, so maybe this could be a cause of an overjet being created thanks to this. If you have a normal bite, and use an orthodontist's FM, an overjet will probably be created anyway, but a modified one might make a difference.

In this case, this is just the way I interpret it, and I'm curious to know how the mandible is defined by the dental arch, just like you said.

 

[Luke LLL]

I believe it is possible but far too much effort and time. Also you don’t need a surgeon to do cortipuncture you can just use the Mse screws and screw and unscrew. @Lorsss

 

[Need2Ascend]

I believe it is possible but far too much effort and time. Also you don’t need a surgeon to do cortipuncture you can just use the Mse screws and screw and unscrew. @Lorsss

Did you facepull along with mse btw?

 

[Luke LLL]

Did you facepull along with mse btw?

No I have no time and am too old.

 

[AscendingHero]

The growth of the jaw has to do with the position of the dental arch.

Elaborate, when u say jaw do u mean the mandible specifically? also when u says it depends on the arch do you mean the width and shape of the palate?