First cycle questions (high iq roiders only, 15yo tren goblins dni)

[vigor]

Finally have the appropriate circumstances to stop coping and run some roids. Planning to do up to 500 test e/wk. Would add HGH but haven't got the money unfortunately. Looking to put on some mass. I'm 20 & 6'3", 185lbs 15%ish bf been training for a year and a half now.

I want to do this intelligently rather than a "muh tren and halo for bones no ancillaries dnr sides" blast-and-cope. Not doing it for bones for the most part, just want to grow and any dimo gains would be a nice plus. Going to be using HCG with it (I want my balls and I want kids) and probably PCTing off for a while at the end of December (going back home to stay with my family and I wouldn't get away with it there) and then going back on later. I have a decent amount of background knowledge on PED's but I'm dedicating the next month to researching everything in depth. Getting bloodwork before, at 6wks and when coming off.

My questions:

• If I'm just running 500 test for 16 weeks, what ancillaries do I actually need? I know about the extensive stacks that some of you run- nebivolol, ezetimibe, telmisartan, TUDCA, glutathione etc but idk if all that is necessary if I'm just cycling moderate dose test and not blasting heavier stuff or orals. I'm definitely going to use HCG, dut, cialis, tret, AI and basic supps but will I realistically need organ support meds or anything else with what I'm running?
  
  
• AIs- what should I use? There's a lot of conflicting info. Some people didn't even need one on similar cycles to mine, some just suggest Tamoxifen for nipples and dnring e2 unless its really bad, and some suggest arimidex or even aromasin if e2 gets real bad. I know to get bloodwork to see how I aromatise but how best to manage various levels of high e2?
  
  
• Coming off- I know the basics of PCTing (and that its unpopular here, but personal circumstances mean I can't really B&C), but how long should I stay off for after? Is 1:1 time on/off just high inhib cope or do I really need to stay off for a while even if my bloods come back ok?
  
  
• If I'm nowhere near peak natty yet, will I keep most of my (contractile tissue) gains? I know natty test levels can't sustain supraphysiological muscle protein synthesis but if I just use it to speedrun a couple more years of lifting (only been lifting for a year), can I sustain my physique? Ik I'll lose glycogen/water retention whilst I'm off but thats just cosmetic. If all goes well I'll run more cycles or just start B&C anyways.
  
  
• Titrating- is it neccesary and/or optimal? If so, how best to do it? Some of the mesorx uncs were suggesting that its better just to raise the dose once rather than gradually (e.g start at 300 for a few weeks then 500 at like week 5). But some other people seem to raise and lower it gradually (300 wk1, 400 wk2, 500wk3-14, 400wk15, 300wk16 then pct 2wks after). And some people just tell you to start at 500mg to make it easier. So much info out there it's hard to pick who to trust.
  
  
• Pin frequency- how important is it? People here seem to be obsessed with pinning daily but is it really that important if I'm running test e. Was planning to pin every 3.5 days (Mon morning/ Thu evening), will I get away with that or will I get raped by acne/e2 sides etc.
  
  
• HCG- should I run it all cycle (at like 250mg every pin day) or just at a higher dose towards the end before I PCT? I don't mind my balls shrinking a bit on-cycle but I do want to ensure that my long term fertility and sexual and endocrine function isn't messed up. Also how much shrinkage would you get on 500 test because idk if I want to be slaying only to put the girl off with raisin nuts.

I appreciate any help. Will post about my progress if I go through with it. Sometimes I wish I was low inhib enough to run the shit some of you do at like 15 but I think its a good time for me now.

 

[vigor]

up

 

[vigor]

.

 

[bp123]

500 is way too high bruh, I started at 400 for my first week and my nipples were so fucking painful , dm me if you have any other questions

 

[vigor]

500 is way too high bruh, I started at 400 for my first week and my nipples were so fucking painful , dm me if you have any other questions

What was your bf%? From what I've seen its pretty rare to immediately aromatise that hard, did you have an AI on hand? But yeah I was planning on titrating up to 400-500mg max. No point in cycling if I'm just gonna run 200-300 for 16 weeks tbh

 

[bp123]

I was probably like 10-12% bf when I started, didn't have an ai on hand but was using eq to try to control my e2. I been on like 250-300 for 3 months now and results have been insane. I'm also prolly gonna cruise for a while tho. Once you're on cycle you do not want to come off just keep that in mind

 

[vigor]

I was probably like 10-12% bf when I started, didn't have an ai on hand but was using eq to try to control my e2. I been on like 250-300 for 3 months now and results have been insane. I'm also prolly gonna cruise for a while tho. Once you're on cycle you do not want to come off just keep that in mind

Wow I'll bear that in mind, I'm at like 15% and I'm gonna aggressively cut until I start so I don't get too fat on cycle. But yeah from what I've seen its a bad idea to start out with a secondary like eq before you've figured out how you respond on test alone. I'll probably incorporate eq and some var for my second cycle throughout the spring-summer.
I'd love to blast and cruise but I can't run any trt for like a month when I'm back home. Hope being off-cycle isn't too bad.

 

[Avocet]

Finally have the appropriate circumstances to stop coping and run some roids. Planning to do up to 500 test e/wk. Would add HGH but haven't got the money unfortunately. Looking to put on some mass. I'm 20 & 6'3", 185lbs 15%ish bf been training for a year and a half now.

I want to do this intelligently rather than a "muh tren and halo for bones no ancillaries dnr sides" blast-and-cope. Not doing it for bones for the most part, just want to grow and any dimo gains would be a nice plus. Going to be using HCG with it (I want my balls and I want kids) and probably PCTing off for a while at the end of December (going back home to stay with my family and I wouldn't get away with it there) and then going back on later. I have a decent amount of background knowledge on PED's but I'm dedicating the next month to researching everything in depth. Getting bloodwork before, at 6wks and when coming off.

My questions:

• If I'm just running 500 test for 16 weeks, what ancillaries do I actually need? I know about the extensive stacks that some of you run- nebivolol, ezetimibe, telmisartan, TUDCA, glutathione etc but idk if all that is necessary if I'm just cycling moderate dose test and not blasting heavier stuff or orals. I'm definitely going to use HCG, dut, cialis, tret, AI and basic supps but will I realistically need organ support meds or anything else with what I'm running?
  
  
• AIs- what should I use? There's a lot of conflicting info. Some people didn't even need one on similar cycles to mine, some just suggest Tamoxifen for nipples and dnring e2 unless its really bad, and some suggest arimidex or even aromasin if e2 gets real bad. I know to get bloodwork to see how I aromatise but how best to manage various levels of high e2?
  
  
• Coming off- I know the basics of PCTing (and that its unpopular here, but personal circumstances mean I can't really B&C), but how long should I stay off for after? Is 1:1 time on/off just high inhib cope or do I really need to stay off for a while even if my bloods come back ok?
  
  
• If I'm nowhere near peak natty yet, will I keep most of my (contractile tissue) gains? I know natty test levels can't sustain supraphysiological muscle protein synthesis but if I just use it to speedrun a couple more years of lifting (only been lifting for a year), can I sustain my physique? Ik I'll lose glycogen/water retention whilst I'm off but thats just cosmetic. If all goes well I'll run more cycles or just start B&C anyways.
  
  
• Titrating- is it neccesary and/or optimal? If so, how best to do it? Some of the mesorx uncs were suggesting that its better just to raise the dose once rather than gradually (e.g start at 300 for a few weeks then 500 at like week 5). But some other people seem to raise and lower it gradually (300 wk1, 400 wk2, 500wk3-14, 400wk15, 300wk16 then pct 2wks after). And some people just tell you to start at 500mg to make it easier. So much info out there it's hard to pick who to trust.
  
  
• Pin frequency- how important is it? People here seem to be obsessed with pinning daily but is it really that important if I'm running test e. Was planning to pin every 3.5 days (Mon morning/ Thu evening), will I get away with that or will I get raped by acne/e2 sides etc.
  
  
• HCG- should I run it all cycle (at like 250mg every pin day) or just at a higher dose towards the end before I PCT? I don't mind my balls shrinking a bit on-cycle but I do want to ensure that my long term fertility and sexual and endocrine function isn't messed up. Also how much shrinkage would you get on 500 test because idk if I want to be slaying only to put the girl off with raisin nuts.

I appreciate any help. Will post about my progress if I go through with it. Sometimes I wish I was low inhib enough to run the shit some of you do at like 15 but I think its a good time for me now.

So youre planning to run one cycle then pct off?

Pin frequency: daily probably best but can do 3x if needed

For E2 you can take EQ, since youre running test do 250-300 EQ, Tamofixen works too, if you choose the AIs too heres a comparison between aromasin, arimidex and letro

Parameter	Arimidex (Anastrozole)	Aromasin (Exemestane)	Letrozole (Femara)
Mechanism	Competitive reversible	Suicidal irreversible	Competitive reversible
Estrogen suppression	70-80%	85-95%	97-99%
Standard clinical dose	1 mg/day	25 mg/day	2.5 mg/day
Typical on-cycle dose	0.25-0.5 mg EOD	12.5-25 mg EOD	0.25-0.5 mg 2-3x/week
Half-life	46-50 hours	24-27 hours	48-96 hours
Estrogen rebound	Yes	No	Yes (severe)
Impact on lipids	Moderate negative	Mild negative	Significant negative
Impact on IGF-1	Neutral	Slight increase	Neutral
Impact on bone density	Negative (long-term)	Less negative	Negative (long-term)
Steroidal structure	No (non-steroidal)	Yes (steroidal)	No (non-steroidal)
Interaction with Nolvadex	Yes (reduces Nolva efficacy by ~40%)	No	Yes (possible, less studied)
PCT compatible	No (rebound + Nolva interaction)	Yes (preferred)	No (too potent, rebound)
Primary use case	On-cycle estrogen control	On-cycle + PCT	Emergency gyno reversal
Cost (relative)	Moderate	Moderate-high	Low

(Found on https://novapharma.cc/en/learn/comparisons/ai-comparison-letrozole-arimidex-aromasin)

As for ancils
NAC(ethyl ester better bioavailability) is fine tudcas not needed, omega 3 fish oils too, telmis a must, Aspirin for blood viscosity, HCG eod or ed if you want to perserve LH, can also be taken 4 weeks before pct tho, microdose isotret 0.1mg/kg + can add estriol cream if you want, you might not need lipid ancils but if you do just use a statin.

 

[bp123]

Wow I'll bear that in mind, I'm at like 15% and I'm gonna aggressively cut until I start so I don't get too fat on cycle. But yeah from what I've seen its a bad idea to start out with a secondary like eq before you've figured out how you respond on test alone. I'll probably incorporate eq and some var for my second cycle throughout the spring-summer.
I'd love to blast and cruise but I can't run any trt for like a month when I'm back home. Hope being off-cycle isn't too bad.

I saw that too but I also read a lot of shit saying that ais can be pretty brutal and I didn't really wanna fuck around with that.

 

[vigor]

So youre planning to run one cycle then pct off?

Pin frequency: daily probably best but can do 3x if needed

For E2 you can take EQ, since youre running test do 250-300 EQ, Tamofixen works too, if you choose the AIs too heres a comparison between aromasin, arimidex and letro

Parameter	Arimidex (Anastrozole)	Aromasin (Exemestane)	Letrozole (Femara)
Mechanism	Competitive reversible	Suicidal irreversible	Competitive reversible
Estrogen suppression	70-80%	85-95%	97-99%
Standard clinical dose	1 mg/day	25 mg/day	2.5 mg/day
Typical on-cycle dose	0.25-0.5 mg EOD	12.5-25 mg EOD	0.25-0.5 mg 2-3x/week
Half-life	46-50 hours	24-27 hours	48-96 hours
Estrogen rebound	Yes	No	Yes (severe)
Impact on lipids	Moderate negative	Mild negative	Significant negative
Impact on IGF-1	Neutral	Slight increase	Neutral
Impact on bone density	Negative (long-term)	Less negative	Negative (long-term)
Steroidal structure	No (non-steroidal)	Yes (steroidal)	No (non-steroidal)
Interaction with Nolvadex	Yes (reduces Nolva efficacy by ~40%)	No	Yes (possible, less studied)
PCT compatible	No (rebound + Nolva interaction)	Yes (preferred)	No (too potent, rebound)
Primary use case	On-cycle estrogen control	On-cycle + PCT	Emergency gyno reversal
Cost (relative)	Moderate	Moderate-high	Low

(Found on https://novapharma.cc/en/learn/comparisons/ai-comparison-letrozole-arimidex-aromasin)

As for ancils
NAC(ethyl ester better bioavailability) is fine tudcas not needed, omega 3 fish oils too, telmis a must, Aspirin for blood viscosity, HCG eod or ed if you want to perserve LH, can also be taken 4 weeks before pct tho, microdose isotret 0.1mg/kg + can add estriol cream if you want, you might not need lipid ancils but if you do just use a statin.

Thanks for the help, very informative