Guide Formal fashionmaxxing

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I have read several threads about fashionmaxxing, but I fear they are all too focused on specific niches. Therefore, first of all I will provide a few simple general rules, then I will explore a niche that has been seldom debated in this forum: the formal dress.

Fashion isn't only fast-changing (yet with cyclical patterns: now teens fashion is back to the mid Nineties, with high waist baggy jeans, rock and metal t-shirts, etc.), but also deeply segmented. It is useless to advise somebody about how to dress, if we don't know how old is he and what kind of people and places he frequents. Then, moreover, different situations require different dress-codes (school, club, pub, work, etc.).
So, how to dress? If you are not NT, the answer is simple: copy. "Steal his style" is not only a meme, it is lifefuel for tasteless or asocial people who are unable to understand the rules, hidden on plainsight, of fashion. So, early in each fashion season, go to a place that probably you will attend or you would like to attend in the near future, check the most popular guys with a physical complexion similar to yours (not exactly the same, but if you are thin avoid tight t-shirts for example), and replicate their apparell. How to replicate it? If you are a richcell just buy the same clothes, instead if you are a poorcell you can resort to Zara (H&M is cheaper but frankly the quality is very low) for basic clothes, given that what really is important are accessories, shoes and, in winter, overcoats. And for these latter things you can resort to replicas: you can check the subs on Reddit about this topic. It is vital, anyway, never to get spotted (unless you belong to a social environment where people brag about their replicas), and therefore:
- never buy from not trusted sellers;
- also trusted sellers are specialized on one or a few brands or even a few clothes/shoes;
- some brands are way too difficult to be accurately replicated: the LV and the G of Gucci are not that easy to be copied, and it is rather easy to spot the glass of a replica watch;
- avoid clothes clearly too expensive for your social and economic status, not only because you will be called out, but also because you will look like an idiot who spends 80% of his poorcel wage in clothes;
- never never never try to become a betabux: you must not dress to make foids think that they can get expensive gifts from you;
- brands are like a price tag: do you really want to make everybody know that you spend/waste 300 USD for a t-shirt? It is tasteless and you look like an aspiring beta provider. Here where I live (a town in Northern Italy) only African drug dealers wear clothes with their (fake) brands in full view (like some Gucci, Prada or LV tasteless clothes), if you are an ethnic and wish to go to Italy or anywhere in Western Europe avoid looking like them (unless you are going after drug addicted foids, of course).

After the University, anyway, what really matters is how you dress on your workplace (no, life does not end at 20 and you can be happy also much later). If you are lucky enough, you will work in a formal environment. And I say "lucky" for these reasons:
- the few formal jobs are usually in rather profitable sectors, where maybe you start as an apprentice slave, but then you may raise to high income (i.e.: lawyers; chartered accountants; corporate, private and investment bankers, etc.);
- these jobs usually give a rather good social status;
- dressing formally is wayyyyy easier than casually (avoid the casual Friday if you can!) and, on the long run, much less expensive, because this kind of dresses follow decade-long small changes in shape, nothing comparable to fast-fashion;
- the dress has been conceived by tailors in order to create a V-shape and make your physique appear more masculine;
- you just need at least 5 dresses (10 is better, but more is useless), a similar number of white, light blue, light-blue-and-white shirts, two or three pair of shoes, one or two (black and brown) belts, or some suspenders (only made in silk and with buttonholes, never clips!), and a shitton of neckties. Be careful: trousers get usured much more than jackets, you might ask if you can buy two trousers with one jacket (it is almost never allowed and you must check that the pattern and color are the same), and cuffs and collars of shirts are usured quite easily. For cuffs, avoid watches with edges or metal bracelets (like the usual Rolex Datejust...), for the collar just shave your neck every day.

I am a framecel, wristcel, and a lot of other -cel, but on the job I have a good status and I have got laid with some foids (also much much younger than me) just because of this. And formal dresses helped my shitty body a lot.

Long story short: how to dress formally? You are lucky: just read "Dressing the Man" by Alan Flusser. It is the bible for this niche and for upper class "casual" (shirts, polos and chinos, with penny loafers) fashion. It is 20 years old but its rules are still the same. Avoid the ridicule striped or blue shirts with white collar and cuffs (and use cufflinks only in very formal occasions and if you have large wrists, if you are a wristcel avoid cufflinks!), but besides this, there is little in this book that shouldn't be followed religiously, provided you have managed to reach a good job or social status. If you are a poorcell you can download the pdf of the book from internet, of course.

How to dress formally without speding too much? For shirts, the Chinese are more than enough (Italian good brands: Carrel, Mattabisch, Xacus, Barba, etc.). For dresses it is much more difficult. The only suggestion I can give you is to buy them if ever you will come on vacation or for job to Italy. Not only top brands cost a fraction than in US stores (I mean: their price is a fourth or a fifth!), but you might go directly to their factory stores. Unlike some "fashion brands" in these cases the quality is real, it is not the usual garbage that becomes gold only because an Italian or French faggot has placed his name to it.
While quality for middle class dresses has declined sharply in the last decade, some brands are still very good: Canali, Corneliani, Loro Piana, Zegna, Raffaele Caruso, Belvest (it produced the dresses by Burberry until a few years ago), Cantarelli, Boglioli, etc. I don't like Armani much (both for the style and the quality), but if you really wish to wear a brand that even an ignorat foid knows, go for it. Top class dresses are too expensive, at their price you can get masterpieces from tailors, but if ever you wish to wear them they are: Brioni, Attolini, Kiton.

Just to start, buy a dark grey and a blue dress, so you will get three apparells with two dresses (you may, in more casual situations, mix the grey trousers with the blue jacket, but never the opposite). Then add pinstripes (but avoid the "gangster look"!) or other shades of blue and grey. Avoid other colors, especially brown (unless you are an old-fashioned communist or you live in a country where this colour is acceptable), but during the summer maybe a light brown/sand might be good (just copy the people around you, anyway). Remember that, in theory, grey is the color of morning and afternoon dresses, blue of night or cerimony dresses. The dresses for cerimony, usually, don't have lapels at the end of their trousers, and lapels should be proportioned to your body tipe (the taller and bigger you are, the higher the lapels).

The best brand of neckties is Marinella, but also Hermes is very good (it all depends on the country you live). If you cannot affor them, buy silk neckties which resemble them. Avoid overly complicated ties, for example I always use the "nodo Nicky" (I don't remember its English name): . If you are short, simple ties are a problem because the necktie would be too long; in fact, its tip should never go under your belt and the smaller leg must not be longer than the larger. If you wear a shirt with a thick fabric you might insert the smaller leg into it, but if it gets out you will look like a clown. It is better either to use a more complex node (the half Windsor) or, if you are a richcell, to have your tailor shorten the necktie.

There are millions of other little details which make a man well dressed in a formal way, but, I repeat, even an autist can learn most of them by reading Flusser's book. Formal dressing is like classical architecture: if you follow rules, you can't do wrong (and if you are a genious you can break them, but, remember, you are here because you are not a genious! :lul: nor a Chad... :feelswhy:).
 
RabidRosaries

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Sorry no one's gonna read if you don't make it interactive/ put pics
 
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Sorry no one's gonna read if you don't make it interactive/ put pics
LOL, you are right. Honestly it was one of my first posts and I was not much good in formatting it. Anyway, Alan Flusser's book is full of very useful photos and drawings, so my post was more a suggestion to get the book (also the pdf is enough! I assume you all know how to download the pdf files of books from certain not-very-legal sites, right?) and read it, rather than an attempt to summarize it. Here i would like to provide a more basic and practical guide, i.e. something that complements Flusser's manual rather than replace it. Of course the following remarks are based upon my personal point of view and experience, but I hope they can help the subhumans dwelling in this forum and turn them into well dressed subhumans! :lul:

So, I will comment upon each piece of clothing, from head to feet.

Hat
Today, hats are completely out of fashion with formal dresses. In winter, if you live in a cold climate, anyway, you may need to cover your head in order to avoid a well deserved yet untimely death. Please avoid any fedora hat, unless you are an orthodox Jew ore are jewmaxxing (does this even exist?!) or you are older than 60: it looks too old fashioned and weird. While not formal, per se, a wool beanie is justified in cold weather. Buy it grey, because it can match really every color, unlike black which is not perfect with blue (still acceptable, anyway). Moreover, if you have greasy hair, you will like to wash it and therefore grey will keep its color better than black. The brand is rather irrilevant, but if you really feel the need to signal your money to foids you might buy either the Prada one (with the red band: not much "formal" but acceptable) or the Louis Vuitton with checks in contrast or one LV metal logo. Never buy beanies covered by LVs or Gucci's Gs, or Fendi's Fs or similar brands, they are low tier as fuck.

Outerwear
Just like the hat, people will see you with your overcoat on only when you are outside, but given that formal fashion is relevant only in a work enviroment it is rather rare that you will wear these pieces of clothing when you are with other people, because you meet them mostly in closed spaces such as offices, restaurants, etc. This is to say: if ever you will need to save money, you might start from hats and overcoats. If you really feel ashamed of your coat, just tell that you commute on train/bus (it is socially acceptable if you work in large city or you pretend to care about the environment) and thus prefer to have a low-profile coat.
Anyway, probably you need at least two coats: one for winter and one for the mid-season. You may use just one if you buy a coat with a detachable internal puffer jacket or wool jacket. The most used here in Italy is the jacket by Tod's. If instead you would like to change between mid and winter seasons, you may buy a short trench or a raincoat for spring and autumn.
The winter jacket should be dark grey or blue, even black is acceptable but I would avoid it. Avoid also lighter colors, because they can get dirty very easily and are impossible to match. The trech/raincoat can be light brown/sand, but again it will get dirty very easily (I have two by Burberry and it's a mess to keep them always clean).

Long and formal coats, made of wool or kashemere, aren't much warm and are not practical, especially if you have to drive or commute to your workplace. They are the best in terms of elegance, but I have used mines not more than once or twice in the last years, and only for ceremonies and not for work. If you will buy one of them, if you can never wear it while you are on a car, otherwise you will spoil it.

So, for winter you can buy Tod's https://www.tods.com/ or some more formal Moncler puffers https://www.moncler.com/en-us/men/outerwear/coats-and-trench-coats (only if you live in very cold climate, honestly I would not choose them because it's hard to find something really formal); Moncler's "spaccio aziendale" (factoty outlet) is in Trebaseleghe, a village in province of Padua (Veneto). A rather less known, but high quality maker, is Moorer. It makes very elegant, but practical, coats https://www.moorer.clothing/us/men/coats.html?p=2 . The factory outlet is located in Castelnuovo del Garda, between Verona and the Garda Lake (Veneto).

Scarfs
It should match the beanie, but it is not necessary. Every shade of grey is good, and if you mix silk with wool you will get excellent fabrics. This is probably, along with the necktie, the only piece of formal clothing that can boast rather unconventional colors, but be always careful. I have no specific brand to suggest, but some markets in Italian villages (such as the market of Viareggio) sell high quality artisanal scarfs at decent prices.

Suits
First of all: don't follow Harvey Specter's style from the TV show "Suits". If he weren't a TV showman and a Chad he would be mocked by everybody for his ludicrous suits with peak lapels! I have already touched this theme in my opening post and it is the core of Flusser's book, so I will keep it simple.
1) Fabric: wool. Avoid blends of silk, they make you look like a pimp, and of course avoid any syntetic blend. In full summer you might opt for a linen or cotton ("cotonaccio") suit, but it is not very formal. "Frescolana" = "fresh wool" is nearly a scam, because when it's hot you will boil into it, but it's the coolest fabric for a really formal suit. You might try to find an unlined jacket, but usually the sleeves are lined anyway. If you live in a mild climate you might use the same set of suits all year around, especially if you move by car and thus spend a short time outside in winter, otherwise you need two sets, one for autumn-winter and one for spring-summer. Remember that softer fabrics wear out more easily, especially in the trousers.
2) Color: as I wrote, grey and blue are the best choice. Be very careful with patterns, because you have to match them with the shirt and the necktie, or even the scarf and suspenders. Pinstripes should not be too in chromatic contrast and the stripes not too large. Checks are not formal, unless for a few shortlived fashions. Please refer to Flusser's book for all the details.
3) Lapels: never wear peak lapels, except at weddings or other very formal ceremonies.
4) Jacket's buttons: today's fashion is for two buttons for the jacket, but three are more classic. I suggest to buy always jackets with three buttons, then have it ironed showing two (the first one on the top can be covered by changing the shape of the lapel) or three or them according to your taste and/or fashion. The top of style are buttons made of horn, but I don't think that 99.9% of people can distinguish them from plastic ones. If you use horn buttons, cover them when the suit is going to be dry washed, or they will be damaged. Never use metal buttons, you are not a ship captain.
5) Sleeves' buttons: never less than 3 or more than 5. 4 is by far the best number. The first thing that I check when I buy a suit is if the buttons of the sleeves can be opened or they are sealed. If the sleeve is just a cylinder, you cannot open the buttons. If instead its cuff can be opened, so are the buttons. It makes a huge difference, because only the best (in the past only taylored) suits have open sleeves and, therefore, if your suit has this charcteristic you must (I repeat: must) open the last button (the one closest to your hand; if you wish even two buttons, especially in summer) in order to signal to the world that you wear a good and maybe taylored suit. Today it is increasingly difficult to find suits with this detail.
6) Shoulders: if you are a framecel, a suit will save your life. If you are gymcelled, instead, be careful, because suits tend to be too tight on shoulders. It is better to buy a larger size and then get your trousers reduced by a taylor.
7) Trousers: today usually they don't have pleats. But, if your thighs are big (either because you are a ball of fat or you have gymmaxxed without skipping legs day) a pleat for each leg is very useful. Two pleats per leg are too much, even for landwhales. The waist should be medium, but you will have to follow the fashion and accept it. Anyway, if your legs are short you should opt for high waist and the opposite if you have a long torso. The cuffs of the legs should be proportional to your height and weight, but usually 4 cm are enough, 3 cm if you are really short. Trousers for ceremonies should not have cuffs.
8) Size: last but not least, remember that suits have TWO systems of sizes. The usual size (i.e. EU 48 is the typical size) that we all know, and the drop. The drop changes the shape of the suit in order to accomodate people with longer or shorter limbs. The more you are longilinear, the the higher the drop. Drop 6 is for normal people, drop 7 and 8 for thin people, 5 and 4 for rather short and fat or anyway square-built, etc. The jacket's bottom should align with your thumb's knuckle, while you keep your arm relaxed along your side.

Suits truly made in Italy, by factories which manage to keep a rather artisanal approach to production, have the best quality/cost ratio, especially if bought during sales or in factory outlets (I mean, the ones close to the actual factory, not the ones in the "fashion outlet districts", which have honest prices but the often the most gibberish colors or strange sizes). I repeat the list that I have already made: Canali, Corneliani, Raffaele Caruso, Belvest (rather pricey), Loro Piana, Ermenegildo Zegna, Boglioli. There are surely other less known brands, but I would be careful. Corneliani's factory outlet is close to Mantua (south of the Garda lake, Lombardy), while Caruso's is in Soragna, near Parma (Emilia-Romagna), and Boglioli's in Gambara (province of Brescia, Lombardy).

Shirts and cufflinks
1) Shirts should be made only of cotton, syntetic blends sometimes are useful because make less wrinkles, but they can be smelly by the end of the day, especially if they are too close to your armpit. Popeline is elegant but very hot (it is not transpiring) and makes wrinkles easily, but it is useful if you take off your jacket and are ashamed of showing your nipples under your white shirt, because it's extra covering (Chads should not read this sentence, as foids get wet when they see their nipples under shirts). Bonus tip: to make less wrinkles, first wear your trousers, then lace your shoes, and only then wear your shirt. Flusser's book provides a lot of details about the several different frabrics.
2) Color: white, light blue, thin (1-2 mm) stripes of light blue and white. Any other color must be chosen carefully and surely is much less formal. Sometimes a pale pink for stripes can be acceptable, but I wouldn't wear it with a suit.
3) Collar: Italian collar. The French one is too open, but is good if you have a round face. A Korean collar is not formal. Smaller collars are good for thin people who wear suits with small lapels too.
4) Cuffs: with normal plastic (if they look like mother-of-pearl it's better) buttons are more than enough, but if you have muscular forearms and anyway good wrists you may choose cufflinks. Cufflinks can be inserted in the shirt in two ways: either the shirt has double cuffs, and thus your cufflinks will have a jointed rod, or the shirt has a normal cuff with two buttonholes, and thus your cufflinks will be formed by two identical parts kept together by a short and thin chain. The latter model is rarer today and much more elegant, but you need masculine wrists to wear it, and often the shirt must be tailor made. You may use rather non-conformist cufflinks, but anyway avoid precious and shiny stones and keep the design as linear and classic as possible. The metal of the cufflink should match the one of the watch, i.e. never wear yellow gold cufflinks with steel/white gold watch (the opposite is rather acceptable).
5) Buttons: as I said, plastic like mother-of-pearl is perfect. Real mother-of-pearl is a waste of money. Metal must be avoided.
6) Monograms: not necessary, anyway a simple font (such as Arial or Times New Roman) is better than handwriting. They should be placed on your stomach, just left of your navel. Other places (e.g. cuffs) are out of fashion today. They should be of a color in contrast with the rest of the shirt, such as white on blue or dark blue on white-and-blue stripes. With white shirts they may be of every color you wish, just remember that then you should match it with the necktie, suit, etc...
7) Pocket on the left (no other places and no more than one): useless, but acceptable, especially in summer, when you can use it to keep your sunglasses if you are not wearing the jacket.
8) Lenght: if you are tall, the shirt will tend to get out of your trousers. So, the longer the shirt the better it is. The problem is that several producers save on fabric and make shirts as short as possible: avoid them unless you are really short. If the shirt keeps getting out, keep the belt tighter and/or put the lower part of the shirt into your underpants (never let anybody notice it, especially a foid, because it's ludicrous).
9) Size: if a shirt has just "S, M, L, XL, etc." sizes, it's just garbage. The sizes are given by the measure of the neck, in cm or inches. The usual is 40 cm or 15 3/4".

There are a lot of good tailors making shirts, also in the Far East and India, not only Italy. If you have a normal torso, you might just buy factory-made shirts. The best Italian producers with decent prices are Carrel, Barba, Mattabitsch, Xacus (this one has a lower quality and its shirts are usually very short). But there are dozens more.

Neckties
Made of silk, no other fabrics, unless in autumn-winter, when you might try wool ties (but they are rather casual). Stretch fabrics must be avoided also because they are unable to keep the knot in place for more than a few hours. On casual Fridays you might try a tricot necktie, both made of silk or wool (or a blend of the two).

How to tie a tie? Download a fucking app and follow the instructions, or watch one or two of the thoudands of videos on Youtube. Choose a symmetrical and simple knot (therefore, despite it's the most classic, I avoid the Four in hand), unless you have a very short torso: as I wrote, the necktie should rest on the belt (not covering the buckle, or at least only a small part of it), so the shorter you are, the longer is the necktie in proportion to your torso. In this case, if you cannot have it cut by a taylor, just use more complex knots, but never go beyond the Half Windsor. Personally I use the "nodo Nicky", i.e. the Pratt Knot in English language.
Whatever the knot, it must have these characteristics:
- it must be as tight as possible. When you make you, you shoud end nearly breathless, then you may open it a few millimeters just to survive. In summer, open it more and open the first button of your shirt, but keeping it covered by the necktie (i.e. nobody sould notice that it is not buttoned);
- there must be a symmetrical slight dimple just under the knot;
- the knot might have a certain spring, protunding horizontally from your throat. Not at 90°, just a not lay flat on the front of your throat;
- with the French collar, the knot should be as small (not large!) as possible.

Just buy or copy the style of Marinella: https://www.emarinella.eu/. If you really dont' like it, try Hermes https://www.hermes.com/us/en/catego...d-scarves/ties-bow-ties-and-pocket-squares/#| But the style of Hermes' ties is often gibberish or too colorful, so be careful. Moreover, while Marinella's style is rather easy to copy, Hermes has a very peculiar style, so it is easy to notice if you are wearing something which is just a sort or replica.
The most luxurious ones by Marinella are the so-called "sette pieghe" (seven folds), because they are made only of silk without an internal padding, but honestly nobody would notice the difference unless... unless you are in the place where men really show their neckties, i.e. the toilet! The moment when you really show you tie, in fact, is when you put it on your shoulder to wash your hands: now people can see the brand of your necktie and how it's made.

Belts
Only made in leather, no fabrics. Avoid any belt with tasteless brands on the buckle or the leather, such as LV, GG, etc. The buckle must be frame-style, no other kinds are allowed (unless you live in Texas). It is better to use a steel or silver buckle, gold buckles are somewhat "too much". In case, the top of luxury is a gold-plated silver buckle (vermeil silver), because gold on silver wears off less than on other metals and the buckle is subject to strong use.
The color should match that of the shoes, so buy one black and one brown belt. Very precise people match also the wallet, so be careful if you wish to follow this fashion. Crocodile belts are very luxury, but not for all tastes.
The leather of the belt is usually lined by a thin stitching. It is better to have it of the same color of the leather, not only because it's more formal, but also because if you will have to ask a shoemaker to shine your belt he will not stain the thread (well, it will stain it, but you won't notice it). Anayway, shining a belt is alway a tricky job, because the risk of staining your trousers is very high.
The length must match your belly, if it is too long have it cut by a shoemaker. If it's short you can't do much: either get leaner or change the belt.

The maker is irrilevant, given that nobody will understand if your belt is by Prada or by a Mr. Nobody. Just choose a decent leather (not faux-leather) and change it when it is worn off. If the buckle is made of silver you can reuse it on a new belt.

Suspenders
They are ultra-formal and ultra-confortable, but they are easily object of fun jokes. Wear them with confidence or don't. They are useful for fat people, but also normal or thin ones will find them useful if they spend their whole working day sitting, since they do not squeeze your belly such as belts. In summer, yet, they are unconfortable on your shoulders and back.
They must be made of silk, except for the elastic fabric on your lower back, and always with buttonholes, no clips. You must ask your taylor (or your mom!) to attach flat and large (1-1.5 cm) buttons on the inside (I underline: inside!!!!) of your trousers: two coulples above the pleats (or in the same position if your trousers are without pleats) and two symmetrically on the back.
I you are really sure to love suspenders, you should tear away the belt loops of your trousers, but I wouldn't do this.

It is hard to find good suspenders made of silk, so I haven't many brands to suggest. You may try producers or sellers of neckties.

Socks
Black mercerized cotton. Grey is better because its color don't fade as much as black, but is less formal. Brown only with brown shoes. They must reach just under your knees, never wear shorter socks.

Shoes
Laced ones, loafers are not formal. Oxfords are perfect, but if you have large feet, or you must wear comfortable shoes (for example because you spend a lot of time standing) blucher/derby ones are better, though less formal. In my opinion derbies are better with heavy wool suits, wool neckties, etc. Suede shoes are not formal and it's easy to spoil them, and crocodile shoes are good for pimps alone.
You should match shoes and belts, maybe even wallet and bag (if you use a leather bag for your job). Ultra-precise men match also their umbrella.
Buy at least a pair of black and a pair of brown shoes. Then match them following the fashion in your environment. I.e. in Italy it's strange to use brown shoes with blue suits (today less strange if compared to a decade ago), but it is good if you are wearing a light-grey suit. Dark grey and brown instead should not be mixed.
It is better never to wear the same shoes two days in a row, because they need to lose their moisture. You should polish your shoes when they are still warm, but honestly I do it seldom and with cold shoes.
Buy also wooden shoe trees, they are necessary to keep the shoes in shape. Wooden ones may be used with the shoes still warm, but I prefer to wait them to be cold and dry before using the trees.

Buy Church's shoes (in particular the models Diplomat or, more formal, Consul) or something copying their style. Here you can read its useful guide https://www.church-footwear.com/us/en/the-guide/style-guide.html Today Church's are pricey as fuck, yet I have a half dozen of them never paid more than 300 euros (often 200), because I bought them in shops in the deep Italian province, often on sales. With today's prices it will be very difficult to get them at the same prices of mine, but remember that, if properly kept, they will last decades.
Allen Edmonds and Fratelli Rossetti are good brands too. Also Prada and Gucci make good shoes (choose the classical models, of course), but too expensive.
 
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LOL, you are right. Honestly it was one of my first posts and I was not much good in formatting it. Anyway, Alan Flusser's book is full of very useful photos and drawings, so my post was more a suggestion to get the book (also the pdf is enough! I assume you all know how to download the pdf files of books from certain not-very-legal sites, right?) and read it, rather than an attempt to summarize it. Here i would like to provide a more basic and practical guide, i.e. something that complements Flusser's manual rather than replace it. Of course the following remarks are based upon my personal point of view and experience, but I hope they can help the subhumans dwelling in this forum and turn them into well dressed subhumans! :lul:

So, I will comment upon each piece of clothing, from head to feet.

Hat
Today, hats are completely out of fashion with formal dresses. In winter, if you live in a cold climate, anyway, you may need to cover your head in order to avoid a well deserved yet untimely death. Please avoid any fedora hat, unless you are an orthodox Jew ore are jewmaxxing (does this even exist?!) or you are older than 60: it looks too old fashioned and weird. While not formal, per se, a wool beanie is justified in cold weather. Buy it grey, because it can match really every color, unlike black which is not perfect with blue (still acceptable, anyway). Moreover, if you have greasy hair, you will like to wash it and therefore grey will keep its color better than black. The brand is rather irrilevant, but if you really feel the need to signal your money to foids you might buy either the Prada one (with the red band: not much "formal" but acceptable) or the Louis Vuitton with checks in contrast or one LV metal logo. Never buy beanies covered by LVs or Gucci's Gs, or Fendi's Fs or similar brands, they are low tier as fuck.

Outerwear
Just like the hat, people will see you with your overcoat on only when you are outside, but given that formal fashion is relevant only in a work enviroment it is rather rare that you will wear these pieces of clothing when you are with other people, because you meet them mostly in closed spaces such as offices, restaurants, etc. This is to say: if ever you will need to save money, you might start from hats and overcoats. If you really feel ashamed of your coat, just tell that you commute on train/bus (it is socially acceptable if you work in large city or you pretend to care about the environment) and thus prefer to have a low-profile coat.
Anyway, probably you need at least two coats: one for winter and one for the mid-season. You may use just one if you buy a coat with a detachable internal puffer jacket or wool jacket. The most used here in Italy is the jacket by Tod's. If instead you would like to change between mid and winter seasons, you may buy a short trench or a raincoat for spring and autumn.
The winter jacket should be dark grey or blue, even black is acceptable but I would avoid it. Avoid also lighter colors, because they can get dirty very easily and are impossible to match. The trech/raincoat can be light brown/sand, but again it will get dirty very easily (I have two by Burberry and it's a mess to keep them always clean).

Long and formal coats, made of wool or kashemere, aren't much warm and are not practical, especially if you have to drive or commute to your workplace. They are the best in terms of elegance, but I have used mines not more than once or twice in the last years, and only for ceremonies and not for work. If you will buy one of them, if you can never wear it while you are on a car, otherwise you will spoil it.

So, for winter you can buy Tod's https://www.tods.com/ or some more formal Moncler puffers https://www.moncler.com/en-us/men/outerwear/coats-and-trench-coats (only if you live in very cold climate, honestly I would not choose them because it's hard to find something really formal); Moncler's "spaccio aziendale" (factoty outlet) is in Trebaseleghe, a village in province of Padua (Veneto). A rather less known, but high quality maker, is Moorer. It makes very elegant, but practical, coats https://www.moorer.clothing/us/men/coats.html?p=2 . The factory outlet is located in Castelnuovo del Garda, between Verona and the Garda Lake (Veneto).

Scarfs
It should match the beanie, but it is not necessary. Every shade of grey is good, and if you mix silk with wool you will get excellent fabrics. This is probably, along with the necktie, the only piece of formal clothing that can boast rather unconventional colors, but be always careful. I have no specific brand to suggest, but some markets in Italian villages (such as the market of Viareggio) sell high quality artisanal scarfs at decent prices.

Suits
First of all: don't follow Harvey Specter's style from the TV show "Suits". If he weren't a TV showman and a Chad he would be mocked by everybody for his ludicrous suits with peak lapels! I have already touched this theme in my opening post and it is the core of Flusser's book, so I will keep it simple.
1) Fabric: wool. Avoid blends of silk, they make you look like a pimp, and of course avoid any syntetic blend. In full summer you might opt for a linen or cotton ("cotonaccio") suit, but it is not very formal. "Frescolana" = "fresh wool" is nearly a scam, because when it's hot you will boil into it, but it's the coolest fabric for a really formal suit. You might try to find an unlined jacket, but usually the sleeves are lined anyway. If you live in a mild climate you might use the same set of suits all year around, especially if you move by car and thus spend a short time outside in winter, otherwise you need two sets, one for autumn-winter and one for spring-summer. Remember that softer fabrics wear out more easily, especially in the trousers.
2) Color: as I wrote, grey and blue are the best choice. Be very careful with patterns, because you have to match them with the shirt and the necktie, or even the scarf and suspenders. Pinstripes should not be too in chromatic contrast and the stripes not too large. Checks are not formal, unless for a few shortlived fashions. Please refer to Flusser's book for all the details.
3) Lapels: never wear peak lapels, except at weddings or other very formal ceremonies.
4) Jacket's buttons: today's fashion is for two buttons for the jacket, but three are more classic. I suggest to buy always jackets with three buttons, then have it ironed showing two (the first one on the top can be covered by changing the shape of the lapel) or three or them according to your taste and/or fashion. The top of style are buttons made of horn, but I don't think that 99.9% of people can distinguish them from plastic ones. If you use horn buttons, cover them when the suit is going to be dry washed, or they will be damaged. Never use metal buttons, you are not a ship captain.
5) Sleeves' buttons: never less than 3 or more than 5. 4 is by far the best number. The first thing that I check when I buy a suit is if the buttons of the sleeves can be opened or they are sealed. If the sleeve is just a cylinder, you cannot open the buttons. If instead its cuff can be opened, so are the buttons. It makes a huge difference, because only the best (in the past only taylored) suits have open sleeves and, therefore, if your suit has this charcteristic you must (I repeat: must) open the last button (the one closest to your hand; if you wish even two buttons, especially in summer) in order to signal to the world that you wear a good and maybe taylored suit. Today it is increasingly difficult to find suits with this detail.
6) Shoulders: if you are a framecel, a suit will save your life. If you are gymcelled, instead, be careful, because suits tend to be too tight on shoulders. It is better to buy a larger size and then get your trousers reduced by a taylor.
7) Trousers: today usually they don't have pleats. But, if your thighs are big (either because you are a ball of fat or you have gymmaxxed without skipping legs day) a pleat for each leg is very useful. Two pleats per leg are too much, even for landwhales. The waist should be medium, but you will have to follow the fashion and accept it. Anyway, if your legs are short you should opt for high waist and the opposite if you have a long torso. The cuffs of the legs should be proportional to your height and weight, but usually 4 cm are enough, 3 cm if you are really short. Trousers for ceremonies should not have cuffs.
8) Size: last but not least, remember that suits have TWO systems of sizes. The usual size (i.e. EU 48 is the typical size) that we all know, and the drop. The drop changes the shape of the suit in order to accomodate people with longer or shorter limbs. The more you are longilinear, the the higher the drop. Drop 6 is for normal people, drop 7 and 8 for thin people, 5 and 4 for rather short and fat or anyway square-built, etc. The jacket's bottom should align with your thumb's knuckle, while you keep your arm relaxed along your side.

Suits truly made in Italy, by factories which manage to keep a rather artisanal approach to production, have the best quality/cost ratio, especially if bought during sales or in factory outlets (I mean, the ones close to the actual factory, not the ones in the "fashion outlet districts", which have honest prices but the often the most gibberish colors or strange sizes). I repeat the list that I have already made: Canali, Corneliani, Raffaele Caruso, Belvest (rather pricey), Loro Piana, Ermenegildo Zegna, Boglioli. There are surely other less known brands, but I would be careful. Corneliani's factory outlet is close to Mantua (south of the Garda lake, Lombardy), while Caruso's is in Soragna, near Parma (Emilia-Romagna), and Boglioli's in Gambara (province of Brescia, Lombardy).

Shirts and cufflinks
1) Shirts should be made only of cotton, syntetic blends sometimes are useful because make less wrinkles, but they can be smelly by the end of the day, especially if they are too close to your armpit. Popeline is elegant but very hot (it is not transpiring) and makes wrinkles easily, but it is useful if you take off your jacket and are ashamed of showing your nipples under your white shirt, because it's extra covering (Chads should not read this sentence, as foids get wet when they see their nipples under shirts). Bonus tip: to make less wrinkles, first wear your trousers, then lace your shoes, and only then wear your shirt. Flusser's book provides a lot of details about the several different frabrics.
2) Color: white, light blue, thin (1-2 mm) stripes of light blue and white. Any other color must be chosen carefully and surely is much less formal. Sometimes a pale pink for stripes can be acceptable, but I wouldn't wear it with a suit.
3) Collar: Italian collar. The French one is too open, but is good if you have a round face. A Korean collar is not formal. Smaller collars are good for thin people who wear suits with small lapels too.
4) Cuffs: with normal plastic (if they look like mother-of-pearl it's better) buttons are more than enough, but if you have muscular forearms and anyway good wrists you may choose cufflinks. Cufflinks can be inserted in the shirt in two ways: either the shirt has double cuffs, and thus your cufflinks will have a jointed rod, or the shirt has a normal cuff with two buttonholes, and thus your cufflinks will be formed by two identical parts kept together by a short and thin chain. The latter model is rarer today and much more elegant, but you need masculine wrists to wear it, and often the shirt must be tailor made. You may use rather non-conformist cufflinks, but anyway avoid precious and shiny stones and keep the design as linear and classic as possible. The metal of the cufflink should match the one of the watch, i.e. never wear yellow gold cufflinks with steel/white gold watch (the opposite is rather acceptable).
5) Buttons: as I said, plastic like mother-of-pearl is perfect. Real mother-of-pearl is a waste of money. Metal must be avoided.
6) Monograms: not necessary, anyway a simple font (such as Arial or Times New Roman) is better than handwriting. They should be placed on your stomach, just left of your navel. Other places (e.g. cuffs) are out of fashion today. They should be of a color in contrast with the rest of the shirt, such as white on blue or dark blue on white-and-blue stripes. With white shirts they may be of every color you wish, just remember that then you should match it with the necktie, suit, etc...
7) Pocket on the left (no other places and no more than one): useless, but acceptable, especially in summer, when you can use it to keep your sunglasses if you are not wearing the jacket.
8) Lenght: if you are tall, the shirt will tend to get out of your trousers. So, the longer the shirt the better it is. The problem is that several producers save on fabric and make shirts as short as possible: avoid them unless you are really short. If the shirt keeps getting out, keep the belt tighter and/or put the lower part of the shirt into your underpants (never let anybody notice it, especially a foid, because it's ludicrous).
9) Size: if a shirt has just "S, M, L, XL, etc." sizes, it's just garbage. The sizes are given by the measure of the neck, in cm or inches. The usual is 40 cm or 15 3/4".

There are a lot of good tailors making shirts, also in the Far East and India, not only Italy. If you have a normal torso, you might just buy factory-made shirts. The best Italian producers with decent prices are Carrel, Barba, Mattabitsch, Xacus (this one has a lower quality and its shirts are usually very short). But there are dozens more.

Neckties
Made of silk, no other fabrics, unless in autumn-winter, when you might try wool ties (but they are rather casual). Stretch fabrics must be avoided also because they are unable to keep the knot in place for more than a few hours. On casual Fridays you might try a tricot necktie, both made of silk or wool (or a blend of the two).

How to tie a tie? Download a fucking app and follow the instructions, or watch one or two of the thoudands of videos on Youtube. Choose a symmetrical and simple knot (therefore, despite it's the most classic, I avoid the Four in hand), unless you have a very short torso: as I wrote, the necktie should rest on the belt (not covering the buckle, or at least only a small part of it), so the shorter you are, the longer is the necktie in proportion to your torso. In this case, if you cannot have it cut by a taylor, just use more complex knots, but never go beyond the Half Windsor. Personally I use the "nodo Nicky", i.e. the Pratt Knot in English language.
Whatever the knot, it must have these characteristics:
- it must be as tight as possible. When you make you, you shoud end nearly breathless, then you may open it a few millimeters just to survive. In summer, open it more and open the first button of your shirt, but keeping it covered by the necktie (i.e. nobody sould notice that it is not buttoned);
- there must be a symmetrical slight dimple just under the knot;
- the knot might have a certain spring, protunding horizontally from your throat. Not at 90°, just a not lay flat on the front of your throat;
- with the French collar, the knot should be as small (not large!) as possible.

Just buy or copy the style of Marinella: https://www.emarinella.eu/. If you really dont' like it, try Hermes https://www.hermes.com/us/en/catego...d-scarves/ties-bow-ties-and-pocket-squares/#| But the style of Hermes' ties is often gibberish or too colorful, so be careful. Moreover, while Marinella's style is rather easy to copy, Hermes has a very peculiar style, so it is easy to notice if you are wearing something which is just a sort or replica.
The most luxurious ones by Marinella are the so-called "sette pieghe" (seven folds), because they are made only of silk without an internal padding, but honestly nobody would notice the difference unless... unless you are in the place where men really show their neckties, i.e. the toilet! The moment when you really show you tie, in fact, is when you put it on your shoulder to wash your hands: now people can see the brand of your necktie and how it's made.

Belts
Only made in leather, no fabrics. Avoid any belt with tasteless brands on the buckle or the leather, such as LV, GG, etc. The buckle must be frame-style, no other kinds are allowed (unless you live in Texas). It is better to use a steel or silver buckle, gold buckles are somewhat "too much". In case, the top of luxury is a gold-plated silver buckle (vermeil silver), because gold on silver wears off less than on other metals and the buckle is subject to strong use.
The color should match that of the shoes, so buy one black and one brown belt. Very precise people match also the wallet, so be careful if you wish to follow this fashion. Crocodile belts are very luxury, but not for all tastes.
The leather of the belt is usually lined by a thin stitching. It is better to have it of the same color of the leather, not only because it's more formal, but also because if you will have to ask a shoemaker to shine your belt he will not stain the thread (well, it will stain it, but you won't notice it). Anayway, shining a belt is alway a tricky job, because the risk of staining your trousers is very high.
The length must match your belly, if it is too long have it cut by a shoemaker. If it's short you can't do much: either get leaner or change the belt.

The maker is irrilevant, given that nobody will understand if your belt is by Prada or by a Mr. Nobody. Just choose a decent leather (not faux-leather) and change it when it is worn off. If the buckle is made of silver you can reuse it on a new belt.

Suspenders
They are ultra-formal and ultra-confortable, but they are easily object of fun jokes. Wear them with confidence or don't. They are useful for fat people, but also normal or thin ones will find them useful if they spend their whole working day sitting, since they do not squeeze your belly such as belts. In summer, yet, they are unconfortable on your shoulders and back.
They must be made of silk, except for the elastic fabric on your lower back, and always with buttonholes, no clips. You must ask your taylor (or your mom!) to attach flat and large (1-1.5 cm) buttons on the inside (I underline: inside!!!!) of your trousers: two coulples above the pleats (or in the same position if your trousers are without pleats) and two symmetrically on the back.
I you are really sure to love suspenders, you should tear away the belt loops of your trousers, but I wouldn't do this.

It is hard to find good suspenders made of silk, so I haven't many brands to suggest. You may try producers or sellers of neckties.

Socks
Black mercerized cotton. Grey is better because its color don't fade as much as black, but is less formal. Brown only with brown shoes. They must reach just under your knees, never wear shorter socks.

Shoes
Laced ones, loafers are not formal. Oxfords are perfect, but if you have large feet, or you must wear comfortable shoes (for example because you spend a lot of time standing) blucher/derby ones are better, though less formal. In my opinion derbies are better with heavy wool suits, wool neckties, etc. Suede shoes are not formal and it's easy to spoil them, and crocodile shoes are good for pimps alone.
You should match shoes and belts, maybe even wallet and bag (if you use a leather bag for your job). Ultra-precise men match also their umbrella.
Buy at least a pair of black and a pair of brown shoes. Then match them following the fashion in your environment. I.e. in Italy it's strange to use brown shoes with blue suits (today less strange if compared to a decade ago), but it is good if you are wearing a light-grey suit. Dark grey and brown instead should not be mixed.
It is better never to wear the same shoes two days in a row, because they need to lose their moisture. You should polish your shoes when they are still warm, but honestly I do it seldom and with cold shoes.
Buy also wooden shoe trees, they are necessary to keep the shoes in shape. Wooden ones may be used with the shoes still warm, but I prefer to wait them to be cold and dry before using the trees.

Buy Church's shoes (in particular the models Diplomat or, more formal, Consul) or something copying their style. Here you can read its useful guide https://www.church-footwear.com/us/en/the-guide/style-guide.html Today Church's are pricey as fuck, yet I have a half dozen of them never paid more than 300 euros (often 200), because I bought them in shops in the deep Italian province, often on sales. With today's prices it will be very difficult to get them at the same prices of mine, but remember that, if properly kept, they will last decades.
Allen Edmonds and Fratelli Rossetti are good brands too. Also Prada and Gucci make good shoes (choose the classical models, of course), but too expensive.
add some pictures or proof that you know what youre talking about
 
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Niko69

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Good thread, and church shoes are amazing, I highly recommend the church shoes "prince"

I'll drop some classic mens fashion accessories you can add to your formal fashionmaxxing from my online closet i mase
 

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Edit: high waist is good for short legs, low waist for long legs (i.e. short torso, not long as I have mistakenly written).
 
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add some pictures or proof that you know what youre talking about
Pictures of what? I have or had nearly all the brands I have mentioned: I have never bought Barba shirts, but I know their quality since I have seen and touched them several times in shops and some of my friends use them; Tod's coats, but about 50% of my colleagues wear them; and Moncler puffers because I hate them but I have even been to their forgotten-by-God factory outlet when I was in that province for work. Anyway, even if I were not talking about this topic by my personal experience, do you think that my suggestions aren't worth reading? I have lurked this forum for a while, I hoped to provide a bit of contribution about a matter I know pretty well and maybe more than many other members. If you don't think so, "frankly, I don't give a damn".
 
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One question, why do you want to avoid something like a datejust, goes well with everything, I do get that the metal bracelet get hairlines at desk-jobs and so forth, but apart from that?
 
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Good thread, and church shoes are amazing, I highly recommend the church shoes "prince"

I'll drop some classic mens fashion accessories you can add to your formal fashionmaxxing from my online closet i mase
Thanks! Your suggestions are all good, although I don't know Eittinger to be honest. I haven't delved into the matter of accessories in my post, otherwise I would have spent the whole evening writing about them and they tend to be too personal to be the object of rather strict rules. Some of them, like glasses, are also very dependent on fashion. And other ones, like watches or even pens, have prices that can be orders of magnitude apart.

Watches are a world per se. I am not a collector, while some colleagues and friends are. To be honest, I have noticed that there are people so filthy rich that can afford to use watches worth 200,000-500,000 euros like if they cost 200-500 euros, therefore I fear that, unless you are really of their same economic status, collecting watches becomes a rather masochistic hobby, because you will always find somebody who tells you: "Oh, your Omega Speedmaster is really nice! I have bought my Rolex Daytona Paul Newman for just 50 times the price of yours". A game I don't find worth playing. Anyway, a few decent and classic watches are a must, starting from the ubiquitous Rolex Datejust and maybe a couple of Omega and Zenith vintage "grandfather" watches.
 
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One question, why do you want to avoid something like a datejust, goes well with everything, I do get that the metal bracelet get hairlines at desk-jobs and so forth, but apart from that?
I have one, I don't suggest to avoid it because I don't like it, but for two banal reasons:
1) nearly everybody has one;
2) its bracelent and the crown around the glass destroys the left cuff of my shirts (but I am a wristcel and so my watch tends to move too much).
This said, I like it and am an owner. Here in Italy it is perfectly accepted in formal jobs, maybe just a bit less just in very formal ceremonies (i.e. if you are the groom in a grand wedding).
 
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I have one, I don't suggest to avoid it because I don't like it, but for two banal reasons:
1) nearly everybody has one;
2) its bracelent and the crown around the glass destroys the left cuff of my shirts (but I am a wristcel and so my watch tends to move too much).
This said, I like it and am an owner. Here in Italy it is perfectly accepted in formal jobs, maybe just a bit less just in very formal ceremonies (i.e. if you are the groom in a grand wedding).
I too have the the datejust (41), mine doesn't tend to slip around, and I agree that they're til many of them but I feel like it's the perfect fit as it can be paired with any casual classic outfit to formal classic outfit. That being said for more formal events the Patek 5296 fits perfectly with the leather bracelet although it not as affordable as the Rolex. In regards to money they are an amazing investment as well as they don't drop in value even if you wear them. Haven't noticed my cuffs getting destroyed either, but I'll look out for it with time
 
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Thanks! Your suggestions are all good, although I don't know Eittinger to be honest. I haven't delved into the matter of accessories in my post, otherwise I would have spent the whole evening writing about them and they tend to be too personal to be the object of rather strict rules. Some of them, like glasses, are also very dependent on fashion. And other ones, like watches or even pens, have prices that can be orders of magnitude apart.

Watches are a world per se. I am not a collector, while some colleagues and friends are. To be honest, I have noticed that there are people so filthy rich that can afford to use watches worth 200,000-500,000 euros like if they cost 200-500 euros, therefore I fear that, unless you are really of their same economic status, collecting watches becomes a rather masochistic hobby, because you will always find somebody who tells you: "Oh, your Omega Speedmaster is really nice! I have bought my Rolex Daytona Paul Newman for just 50 times the price of yours". A game I don't find worth playing. Anyway, a few decent and classic watches are a must, starting from the ubiquitous Rolex Datejust and maybe a couple of Omega and Zenith vintage "grandfather" watches.
I love going deep down into the details, in regards to pens, cufflinks and all that and everything has to match when I follow my mentor. So I have one set of silver accessories and one set of gold. Feel in love with ettinger brand as their quality is amazing and they offer all the same products for each set and everything has the option to be personalized. I can't remember if you covered it, but if you're wearing more expensive shoes the ettinger shoe horn is perfect for carrying with you to not ruin the back of your shoes
 
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I too have the the datejust (41), mine doesn't tend to slip around, and I agree that they're til many of them but I feel like it's the perfect fit as it can be paired with any casual classic outfit to formal classic outfit. That being said for more formal events the Patek 5296 fits perfectly with the leather bracelet although it not as affordable as the Rolex. In regards to money they are an amazing investment as well as they don't drop in value even if you wear them. Haven't noticed my cuffs getting destroyed either, but I'll look out for it with time
I am probably the worst wristcel and framecel in this forum, my watches are always slipping around but I don't like to take away another chain from the bracelent (well, I should check but maybe I cannot take away another one). Almost certainly this is the cause of the wear of my left cuffs in shirts.

Not all brands are a good investment, anyway. Just check Vacheron Constantin or IWC, etc. Rolex and Patek have been the best investment by far in the last decades, instead. (y)
 
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I am probably the worst wristcel and framecel in this forum, my watches are always slipping around but I don't like to take away another chain from the bracelent (well, I should check but maybe I cannot take away another one). Almost certainly this is the cause of the wear of my left cuffs in shirts.

Not all brands are a good investment, anyway. Just check Vacheron Constantin or IWC, etc. Rolex and Patek have been the best investment by far in the last decades, instead. (y)
The wrist thing does make sense, I'm assuming you have the 36mm since you don't mention microadjustments on the bracelet and stating that you're a wristcel correct?

Was also just mentioning the two watch brands I had experience with holding their value (even increasing quite a bit), I don't really go for that many other brands if it's regarding investments. pilot watches aren't my cup of tea, but VC has some nice looking pieces as well, haven't looked at their market value increase/decrease though
 
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I have read several threads about fashionmaxxing, but I fear they are all too focused on specific niches. Therefore, first of all I will provide a few simple general rules, then I will explore a niche that has been seldom debated in this forum: the formal dress.

Fashion isn't only fast-changing (yet with cyclical patterns: now teens fashion is back to the mid Nineties, with high waist baggy jeans, rock and metal t-shirts, etc.), but also deeply segmented. It is useless to advise somebody about how to dress, if we don't know how old is he and what kind of people and places he frequents. Then, moreover, different situations require different dress-codes (school, club, pub, work, etc.).
So, how to dress? If you are not NT, the answer is simple: copy. "Steal his style" is not only a meme, it is lifefuel for tasteless or asocial people who are unable to understand the rules, hidden on plainsight, of fashion. So, early in each fashion season, go to a place that probably you will attend or you would like to attend in the near future, check the most popular guys with a physical complexion similar to yours (not exactly the same, but if you are thin avoid tight t-shirts for example), and replicate their apparell. How to replicate it? If you are a richcell just buy the same clothes, instead if you are a poorcell you can resort to Zara (H&M is cheaper but frankly the quality is very low) for basic clothes, given that what really is important are accessories, shoes and, in winter, overcoats. And for these latter things you can resort to replicas: you can check the subs on Reddit about this topic. It is vital, anyway, never to get spotted (unless you belong to a social environment where people brag about their replicas), and therefore:
- never buy from not trusted sellers;
- also trusted sellers are specialized on one or a few brands or even a few clothes/shoes;
- some brands are way too difficult to be accurately replicated: the LV and the G of Gucci are not that easy to be copied, and it is rather easy to spot the glass of a replica watch;
- avoid clothes clearly too expensive for your social and economic status, not only because you will be called out, but also because you will look like an idiot who spends 80% of his poorcel wage in clothes;
- never never never try to become a betabux: you must not dress to make foids think that they can get expensive gifts from you;
- brands are like a price tag: do you really want to make everybody know that you spend/waste 300 USD for a t-shirt? It is tasteless and you look like an aspiring beta provider. Here where I live (a town in Northern Italy) only African drug dealers wear clothes with their (fake) brands in full view (like some Gucci, Prada or LV tasteless clothes), if you are an ethnic and wish to go to Italy or anywhere in Western Europe avoid looking like them (unless you are going after drug addicted foids, of course).

After the University, anyway, what really matters is how you dress on your workplace (no, life does not end at 20 and you can be happy also much later). If you are lucky enough, you will work in a formal environment. And I say "lucky" for these reasons:
- the few formal jobs are usually in rather profitable sectors, where maybe you start as an apprentice slave, but then you may raise to high income (i.e.: lawyers; chartered accountants; corporate, private and investment bankers, etc.);
- these jobs usually give a rather good social status;
- dressing formally is wayyyyy easier than casually (avoid the casual Friday if you can!) and, on the long run, much less expensive, because this kind of dresses follow decade-long small changes in shape, nothing comparable to fast-fashion;
- the dress has been conceived by tailors in order to create a V-shape and make your physique appear more masculine;
- you just need at least 5 dresses (10 is better, but more is useless), a similar number of white, light blue, light-blue-and-white shirts, two or three pair of shoes, one or two (black and brown) belts, or some suspenders (only made in silk and with buttonholes, never clips!), and a shitton of neckties. Be careful: trousers get usured much more than jackets, you might ask if you can buy two trousers with one jacket (it is almost never allowed and you must check that the pattern and color are the same), and cuffs and collars of shirts are usured quite easily. For cuffs, avoid watches with edges or metal bracelets (like the usual Rolex Datejust...), for the collar just shave your neck every day.

I am a framecel, wristcel, and a lot of other -cel, but on the job I have a good status and I have got laid with some foids (also much much younger than me) just because of this. And formal dresses helped my shitty body a lot.

Long story short: how to dress formally? You are lucky: just read "Dressing the Man" by Alan Flusser. It is the bible for this niche and for upper class "casual" (shirts, polos and chinos, with penny loafers) fashion. It is 20 years old but its rules are still the same. Avoid the ridicule striped or blue shirts with white collar and cuffs (and use cufflinks only in very formal occasions and if you have large wrists, if you are a wristcel avoid cufflinks!), but besides this, there is little in this book that shouldn't be followed religiously, provided you have managed to reach a good job or social status. If you are a poorcell you can download the pdf of the book from internet, of course.

How to dress formally without speding too much? For shirts, the Chinese are more than enough (Italian good brands: Carrel, Mattabisch, Xacus, Barba, etc.). For dresses it is much more difficult. The only suggestion I can give you is to buy them if ever you will come on vacation or for job to Italy. Not only top brands cost a fraction than in US stores (I mean: their price is a fourth or a fifth!), but you might go directly to their factory stores. Unlike some "fashion brands" in these cases the quality is real, it is not the usual garbage that becomes gold only because an Italian or French faggot has placed his name to it.
While quality for middle class dresses has declined sharply in the last decade, some brands are still very good: Canali, Corneliani, Loro Piana, Zegna, Raffaele Caruso, Belvest (it produced the dresses by Burberry until a few years ago), Cantarelli, Boglioli, etc. I don't like Armani much (both for the style and the quality), but if you really wish to wear a brand that even an ignorat foid knows, go for it. Top class dresses are too expensive, at their price you can get masterpieces from tailors, but if ever you wish to wear them they are: Brioni, Attolini, Kiton.

Just to start, buy a dark grey and a blue dress, so you will get three apparells with two dresses (you may, in more casual situations, mix the grey trousers with the blue jacket, but never the opposite). Then add pinstripes (but avoid the "gangster look"!) or other shades of blue and grey. Avoid other colors, especially brown (unless you are an old-fashioned communist or you live in a country where this colour is acceptable), but during the summer maybe a light brown/sand might be good (just copy the people around you, anyway). Remember that, in theory, grey is the color of morning and afternoon dresses, blue of night or cerimony dresses. The dresses for cerimony, usually, don't have lapels at the end of their trousers, and lapels should be proportioned to your body tipe (the taller and bigger you are, the higher the lapels).

The best brand of neckties is Marinella, but also Hermes is very good (it all depends on the country you live). If you cannot affor them, buy silk neckties which resemble them. Avoid overly complicated ties, for example I always use the "nodo Nicky" (I don't remember its English name): . If you are short, simple ties are a problem because the necktie would be too long; in fact, its tip should never go under your belt and the smaller leg must not be longer than the larger. If you wear a shirt with a thick fabric you might insert the smaller leg into it, but if it gets out you will look like a clown. It is better either to use a more complex node (the half Windsor) or, if you are a richcell, to have your tailor shorten the necktie.

There are millions of other little details which make a man well dressed in a formal way, but, I repeat, even an autist can learn most of them by reading Flusser's book. Formal dressing is like classical architecture: if you follow rules, you can't do wrong (and if you are a genious you can break them, but, remember, you are here because you are not a genious! :lul: nor a Chad... :feelswhy:).

I'm just buying everything ralph lauren and getting brioni stuff on clearance would this work
 
A

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The wrist thing does make sense, I'm assuming you have the 36mm since you don't mention microadjustments on the bracelet and stating that you're a wristcel correct?

Was also just mentioning the two watch brands I had experience with holding their value (even increasing quite a bit), I don't really go for that many other brands if it's regarding investments. pilot watches aren't my cup of tea, but VC has some nice looking pieces as well, haven't looked at their market value increase/decrease though
I have the 36 mm, I have taken away all the detachable chains and adjusted the closure, but it's still large for my wrist. Just consider that most foids have larger wrists than mine... :feelswhy:

The watches market has a too large bid-ask spread, is not much liquid and there are too many information asymmetries: in short, buy a watch because you like it, if it's a Rolex or Patek Philippe there is a good chance it will keep or increase its value, but apart from this I cannot suggest these goods as an investment. Then, of course, there are several fine brands, such as VC, or JLC, or Lange und Soehne, Audemars Piguet (well, for casual style), etc., but I wouldn't bet on them as a sound investment, unless in a period of high inflation (and we are going into one, apparently... :eek:).
 
A

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I'm just buying everything ralph lauren and getting brioni stuff on clearance would this work
LOL, you like to keep it simple! RL is the best in USA, but I have only casual clothes by this brand, I don't know much its suits. Among non-Italian brands, also Hugo Boss and Burberry (which used to produce suits in Italy, I don't know now) are good too.
Brioni, in my opinion, is a waste of money. You pay 3,000 EUR (usual retail price, during sales maybe less, but I don't expect it to go under 2,000 EUR) for an excellent suit, which you would have paid somewhat less if made by a tailor just for you (it all depends on the cost of labor in your country). I have managed to buy a Brioni suit for about 450-500 EUR some years ago, but it was a clearance of a bankrupted shop and I was so slim that I bought a size 46. I have also other ones, but thinking retrospectively they have been a waste of money. Then, of course, if you are a richcel and don't like to go to a tailor (or no skilled ones are active near you, which is increasingly the case), buy Brioni or Kiton.
 
StuffedFrog

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LOL, you like to keep it simple! RL is the best in USA, but I have only casual clothes by this brand, I don't know much its suits. Among non-Italian brands, also Hugo Boss and Burberry (which used to produce suits in Italy, I don't know now) are good too.
Brioni, in my opinion, is a waste of money. You pay 3,000 EUR (usual retail price, during sales maybe less, but I don't expect it to go under 2,000 EUR) for an excellent suit, which you would have paid somewhat less if made by a tailor just for you (it all depends on the cost of labor in your country). I have managed to buy a Brioni suit for about 450-500 EUR some years ago, but it was a clearance of a bankrupted shop and I was so slim that I bought a size 46. I have also other ones, but thinking retrospectively they have been a waste of money. Then, of course, if you are a richcel and don't like to go to a tailor (or no skilled ones are active near you, which is increasingly the case), buy Brioni or Kiton.
No brioni then just Nordstrom clearance then
 
eren1

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I love going deep down into the details, in regards to pens, cufflinks and all that and everything has to match when I follow my mentor. So I have one set of silver accessories and one set of gold. Feel in love with ettinger brand as their quality is amazing and they offer all the same products for each set and everything has the option to be personalized. I can't remember if you covered it, but if you're wearing more expensive shoes the ettinger shoe horn is perfect for carrying with you to not ruin the back of your shoes
Holy fuck you look like your into this type of shit aswell. No wonder.
You look high class, you dress high class, and your really into it. Need to get into this shit aswell to be honest
 
Niko69

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Holy fuck you look like your into this type of shit aswell. No wonder.
You look high class, you dress high class, and your really into it. Need to get into this shit aswell to be honest
Definitely do love the smaller details and so forth, can be an expensive hobby though haha
 
Sigmamale

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Good thread, and church shoes are amazing, I highly recommend the church shoes "prince"

I'll drop some classic mens fashion accessories you can add to your formal fashionmaxxing from my online closet i mase
What app is that?
 
Niko69

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What app is that?
It's a productivity app, you can literally usenit for anything so also decided to put my closet in their to make it easier to make outfits and plan stuff like that. Highly recommend it
 

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Sigmamale

Sigmamale

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It's a productivity app, you can literally usenit for anything so also decided to put my closet in their to make it easier to make outfits and plan stuff like that. Highly recommend it
Thank you! I will download it.
 

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