free will defence(the dream theorum)

[Ryan]

when we are in a dream we think that the main character in the dream are us and we are making choices freely but when we wake up we realize that we were not making decissions freely and the feel that we had free will in the dream was just an illusion..
the question is :why do we feel when we wake up that the free will in the dream was just an illusion?if the level of free will we had in dreams were same as real life then we wouldnt feel this change hence we have free will or atleast we have more free will in real life than we have in dreams ie free will has degrees

@TRUE_CEL @hebbewem

 

[2d v2]

the truth is, when we wake up we go back into the pre-programmed illuminatto mindset that they somehow instilled in us, and go back to being cuck fags

the truth is, you own everything and can do anything you want

 

[Deleted member 25339]

Imo there is definitely some level of predeterminism involved. From a religious and non religious pov as well. From a religious pov the whole concept of free will does not make much sense. Why? Because in most religious literature it is believed to be true that God has determined all that is going to happen to you right to the instantaneous events. Since it is determined no amount of prayers/hard work can lead you to go against what's determined for you. Similarly from a non religious pov, free will so seems to not make any sense. For example you have to chose between two objects assume you chose object x over y, why did you not chose object y over x? Now you can spite me and say you could've done it but the main question is can you chose what you chose? No imo. If the answer is yes the question again becomes can you chose to chose what you chose, no again, if yes it will keep on continuing until there is a causal terminator i.e a no as an answer since infinite regression is a flawed belief.

 

[Deleted member 25339]

Also we feel that the free will we had in the dream was an illusion since the whole dream is in a way an illusion too. You're not actually experiencing anything in the dream it is just in your brain.

 

[Ryan]

thoughts @Magical Apple @mogger123 @LooksOverAll

 

[Deleted member 17872]

Since it is determined no amount of prayers can lead you to go against what's determined for you.

that's bullshit. according to religion

 

[Deleted member 25339]

that's bullshit. according to religion

The biggest contradiction in religion are discussions of free will. At one point it is said god knows all the future and all that's going to/supposed to happen and at another point it is said you can pray to change your fate. If god knows what is going to happen in the next second praying doesn't change anything since it was already determined you'll pick something up for example

 

[Deleted member 23558]

Because dreams activate the unconscious and waking life is conscious. Imo free will is only possible in supraconscious states such as that induced by arduous meditation or very high dose psychedelics. In these states , emotional constraints and cognitive constraints will be removed leading to a state of unity which doesn’t require Will at all aka beyond Will a la Schopenhauer. It is only in this state can we speak of beyond will as “there is nowhere to go nothing to be done”

 

[Deleted member 23558]

The biggest contradiction in religion are discussions of free will. At one point it is said god knows all the future and all that's going to/supposed to happen and at another point it is said you can pray to change your fate. If god knows what is going to happen in the next second praying doesn't change anything since it was already determined you'll pick something up for example

Yes but god also knows you’ll pray..

 

[Deleted member 25339]

Yes but god also knows you’ll pray..

If god knows I'll pray and god also knows I'll pick a glass of water in the next instant shouldn't both of them be pre determined? I think concrete knowledge of future comes only if you know what events led to a particular point in the said future. And knowing those points each require even more knowledge of pointd prior to that and this will lead to a harsh predeterminism which is difficult to not justify

 

[Deleted member 23558]

@David Rothschild whats your problem kike nigger

 

[Deleted member 17872]

The biggest contradiction in religion are discussions of free will. At one point it is said god knows all the future and all that's going to/supposed to happen and at another point it is said you can pray to change your fate. If god knows what is going to happen in the next second praying doesn't change anything since it was already determined you'll pick something up for example

There is nothing contradictory about it. You just have a weird idea of God. You are attributing human cognition to God.

 

[Deleted member 23558]

There is nothing contradictory about it. You just have a weird idea of God. You are attributing human cognition to God.

Kike nigger

 

[Deleted member 25339]

There is nothing contradictory about it. You just have a weird idea of God. You are attributing human cognition to God.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

So no arguments but anti-semitism

I take it as acceptance of defeat

 

[Gengar’s Ghost]

when we are in a dream we think that the main character in the dream are us and we are making choices freely but when we wake up we realize that we were not making decissions freely and the feel that we had free will in the dream was just an illusion..
the question is :why do we feel when we wake up that the free will in the dream was just an illusion?if the level of free will we had in dreams were same as real life then we wouldnt feel this change hence we have free will or atleast we have more free will in real life than we have in dreams ie free will has degrees

@TRUE_CEL @hebbewem

The question of free-will or lack thereof is pretty puzzling in and of itself. Do you, one who questions their free will, not do this out of free-will? Checkmate.

 

[Deleted member 25339]

So no arguments but anti-semitism

I take it as acceptance of defeat

Me saying religion is contradictory does not entail attributing human cognition to a god. How would you explain it then? God knows what is going to happen the next instant and it can't not happen since god knows everything but at the same time if I somehow pray it won't happen?? How would you go about explaining that

 

[mogger123]

Free will debate is just a cluster fuck of definitions and pedantic language tbh. Nothing interesting ever comes from it and I've decided I don't care

 

[reborn]

when we are in a dream we think that the main character in the dream are us and we are making choices freely but when we wake up we realize that we were not making decissions freely and the feel that we had free will in the dream was just an illusion..
the question is :why do we feel when we wake up that the free will in the dream was just an illusion?if the level of free will we had in dreams were same as real life then we wouldnt feel this change hence we have free will or atleast we have more free will in real life than we have in dreams ie free will has degrees

@TRUE_CEL @hebbewem

Truth is you can develop free will but it's hard. Most people don't have it.

 

[Magical Apple]

when we are in a dream we think that the main character in the dream are us and we are making choices freely but when we wake up we realize that we were not making decissions freely and the feel that we had free will in the dream was just an illusion..
the question is :why do we feel when we wake up that the free will in the dream was just an illusion?if the level of free will we had in dreams were same as real life then we wouldnt feel this change hence we have free will or atleast we have more free will in real life than we have in dreams ie free will has degrees

@TRUE_CEL @hebbewem

I don't believe in individual free will. All the particles in our body follow the laws of physics so it's these forces that are controlling our actions, not our "free will". However, since these laws are arbitrary they are in a sense a form of free will. Thus the will of the lesser self is a manifestation of the will of the greater whole, call it "god" if you will. My question is whether or not it is possible to become aware of the forces driving oneself and thus experience things as they truly are.

 

[Ryan]

@NuclearBrainReturns @Sal @Salludon @Yellowskies @Baldingman1998 @Lux @disillusioned @CrazyFitLover

 

[CrazyFitLover]

My opinion is that, whether free will exists or not, still the best possible life you could have is where you make the best possible decisions and execute your plans ruthlessly, remaining stoic towards outside factors, controlling your mind state as much as possible and realizing your full potential. Free will or not, you still have one life and some sense of control, therefore it makes sense to exercise as much power as possible on things you can/you feel control.

 

[NuclearBrainReturns]

Regardless whether or not God knows what you are going to do, that still doesnt disprove free will.

If you had a computer screen in front of you showing every single possible outcome that might have happened if you chose differently, then on another your actual choice in that situation, that still doesnt disprove free will in the slightest.

A being knowing all possible choices in your life doesnt disprove the fact that you can choose one and discard all others. You have that choice to make regardless whether God can see all possible choices that you may make.

 

[Bakin donuts 🍩]

I think we have free will but its very limited by the different rules and our environment and upbringing and mental state and health and responsibilities etc.

 

[Sal]

when we are in a dream we think that the main character in the dream are us and we are making choices freely but when we wake up we realize that we were not making decissions freely and the feel that we had free will in the dream was just an illusion..
the question is :why do we feel when we wake up that the free will in the dream was just an illusion?if the level of free will we had in dreams were same as real life then we wouldnt feel this change hence we have free will or atleast we have more free will in real life than we have in dreams ie free will has degrees

@TRUE_CEL @hebbewem

@NuclearBrainReturns @Sal @Salludon @Yellowskies @Baldingman1998 @Lux @disillusioned @CrazyFitLover

Yeah bro I'm not getting your point. The free will in our dreams are real. I don't wake up and feel like I was possessed or controlled in my dream. I study philosophy, I don't see the issue.