Give me actual tips

[Lil_Bannas]

I need help on what I should do to improve I'm 5'11 and like 190-200 pounds Ik im fat so if your not gonna give actual tips just fuck off n die

 

[looks maximum]

Just mew brah

 

[AsymmetricalCel]

I need help on what I should do to improve I'm 5'11 and like 190-200 pounds Ik im fat so if your not gonna give actual tips just fuck off n die

thicken your eyebrows with topical minox or smth else and grow lashes aswell, they lack a lot tbh

 

[allah_cat_172]

most subhumanic skin ive ever seen

 

[valentine]

why are you pink

 

[sarmatian]

Get lean

 

[aids]

I'm 5'11 and like 190-200 pounds Ik im fat

Retards like you will post this and then ask what to do in the same sentence.
How about lose weight, you fucking obese faggot? Not a very difficult concept to grasp.
Wrong subforum also, post in Ratings. Retarded and fat is not a good combination, good thing you can change the latter.

 

[Lil_Bannas]

most subhumanic skin ive ever seen

What does this even mean bro

 

[allah_cat_172]

What does this even mean bro

are you retarded?

 

[lovepillmaxing]

I need help on what I should do to improve I'm 5'11 and like 190-200 pounds Ik im fat so if your not gonna give actual tips just fuck off n die

You shouldn't be telling people to fuck off and die you obese fucking subhuman, stop asking for help when you know you're fat as fuck and so ugly i can't even look at you. If you know you're fat go lose some fucking weight you lazy little shit, and i can tell by not only your weight but also skin quality that you eat a shit ton of fast foods.

Don't come on here expecting for some tips when your retarded ass eats fast food and high sugar ring donuts everyday, it won't help if you stay a fat fuck. Lose some fucking weight and then come back on here you little bitch.

 

[Lil_Bannas]

Retards like you will post this and then ask what to do in the same sentence.
How about lose weight, you fucking obese faggot? Not a very difficult concept to grasp.
Wrong subforum also, post in Ratings. Retarded and fat is not a good combination, good thing you can change the latter.

Bro why are you getting so mad like this is a job n like I said I know im fat gng but im still just wondering what other things besides weight loss that I can do to further improve my looks and my bad bro I thought the LOOKSMAXXING forum was about improvement I didn't want a rating just other things that I can also improve on besides weight loss. So like take a chill pill dawg it's not that serious and it's people like you that make the looksmaxxing community look bad yur just a toxic loser with nothing else to then obsess over other men's looks

 

[aids]

Bro why are you getting so mad like this is a job n like I said I know im fat gng but im still just wondering what other things besides weight loss that I can do to further improve my looks and my bad bro I thought the LOOKSMAXXING forum was about improvement I didn't want a rating just other things that I can also improve on besides weight loss. So like take a chill pill dawg it's not that serious and it's people like you that make the looksmaxxing community look bad yur just a toxic loser with nothing else to then obsess over other men's looks

Ok Lil_Bannas

 

[lovepillmaxing]

What does this even mean bro

a

Bro why are you getting so mad like this is a job n like I said I know im fat gng but im still just wondering what other things besides weight loss that I can do to further improve my looks and my bad bro I thought the LOOKSMAXXING forum was about improvement I didn't want a rating just other things that I can also improve on besides weight loss. So like take a chill pill dawg it's not that serious and it's people like you that make the looksmaxxing community look bad yur just a toxic loser with nothing else to then obsess over

Retards like you will post this and then ask what to do in the same sentence.
How about lose weight, you fucking obese faggot? Not a very difficult concept to grasp.
Wrong subforum also, post in Ratings. Retarded and fat is not a good combination, good thing you can change the latter.

Based.

 

[Lil_Bannas]

You shouldn't be telling people to fuck off and die you obese fucking subhuman, stop asking for help when you know you're fat as fuck and so ugly i can't even look at you. If you know you're fat go lose some fucking weight you lazy little shit, and i can tell by not only your weight but also skin quality that you eat a shit ton of fast foods.

Don't come on here expecting for some tips when your retarded ass eats fast food and high sugar ring donuts everyday, it won't help if you stay a fat fuck. Lose some fucking weight and then come back on here you little bitch.

Dawg your talking all this crazy and I'm trying to fix my skin I'm getting on accutane in the near future and trying to fix my diet you fucking "looksmaxxers" are always the first to call someone out when you don't know anything about them and you don't even have your own fave for your pfp you have another man that's just sad and isn't this community supposed to be about helpigg n other people look better not being a lowly fucking loser who just talks shit cause you know your ugly like it's so sad to see how far from being decent people some of y'all are

 

[allah_cat_172]

Dawg your talking all this crazy and I'm trying to fix my skin I'm getting on accutane in the near future and trying to fix my diet you fucking "looksmaxxers" are always the first to call someone out when you don't know anything about them and you don't even have your own fave for your pfp you have another man that's just sad and isn't this community supposed to be about helpigg n other people look better not being a lowly fucking loser who just talks shit cause you know your ugly like it's so sad to see how far from being decent people some of y'all are

shut the fuck up

 

[Lil_Bannas]

Ok Lil_Bannas

Ay at least you didn't continue to insult me like some of the other losers on here props to you

 

[Lil_Bannas]

shut the fuck up

Bro you just know I'm right the lookmaxxing community has dissolved into incel losers with nothing better to do other than obsess over other men

 

[lovepillmaxing]

Dawg your talking all this crazy and I'm trying to fix my skin I'm getting on accutane in the near future and trying to fix my diet you fucking "looksmaxxers" are always the first to call someone out when you don't know anything about them and you don't even have your own fave for your pfp you have another man that's just sad and isn't this community supposed to be about helpigg n other people look better not being a lowly fucking loser who just talks shit cause you know your ugly like it's so sad to see how far from being decent people some of y'all are

You're calling ME ugly? Holy shit, the only replies you got on here is how much of a retarded ugly shit you are.

I'm actually calling you out for telling people to fuck off and die with your unnaturally big ego for not wanting to give you tips, and also for being a retard. Accutane won't help you lose weight you fucking stupid piece of shit, even if you get rid of the acne it'll come back with all the fucking donuts you consume daily If you're gonna be a fucking retard and ask for tips when you know you're fat the don't expect people to be nice.

 

[lovepillmaxing]

Bro you just know I'm right the lookmaxxing community has dissolved into incel losers with nothing better to do other than obsess over other men

You have a pokémon card as your profile picture because your face is too ugly to be on there. If I saw you as anyone's profile picture id probably report them lmao.

 

[allah_cat_172]

Bro you just know I'm right the lookmaxxing community has dissolved into incel losers with nothing better to do other than obsess over other men

youre the one making a post and telling random ppl to fuck off and die you dumb nigger and calling other people you dont know ugly and incels while you look like shit yourself
if you want advice then ask like a normal person not like an estrogenic faggot

 

[lovepillmaxing]

youre the one making a post and telling random ppl to fuck off and die you dumb nigger and calling other people you dont know ugly and incels while you look like shit yourself
if you want advice then ask like a normal person not like an estrogenic faggot

Based.

 

[aids]

Bro you just know I'm right the lookmaxxing community has dissolved into incel losers with nothing better to do other than obsess over other men

No, it's just not welcoming to such generalised questions when you know exactly what you can start to do, to be better looking.
Use your head instead of relying on the advice of users on here, especially if you think it's "dissolved" (devolved) into a community of "incel losers", not that you'd know because you joined in February and are asking such dumb questions, implying you haven't spent the few months you've been registered to actually learn about what you can do.
People are calling you a retard, because you are a retard, or at the very least, acting like one. You know what to do, now do it instead of dopamine farming thinking that you're making progress by making a thread asking for help when in reality all you're doing is arguing with people which you effectively prefaced that you knew would happen with this remark:

Ik im fat so if your not gonna give actual tips just fuck off n die

Fix your shit and be a better man rather than project your own insecurities onto others by calling people on here "incel losers". 90%+ of the good users on this forum are GL because they've taken advantage of the information available here, rather than relying on the input of random forum users with no credibility that are here solely to punch down.

 

[Lil_Bannas]

youre the one making a post and telling random ppl to fuck off and die you dumb nigger and calling other people you dont know ugly and incels while you look like shit yourself
if you want advice then ask like a normal person not like an estrogenic faggot

Bro the reason I said the fuck off n die is because I've posted normal things yet weirdos on this site still just say ropemax n other shit n the guy insulted me first and was just a douche so I was one back

 

[Lil_Bannas]

No, it's just not welcoming to such generalised questions when you know exactly what you can start to do, to be better looking.
Use your head instead of relying on the advice of users on here, especially if you think it's "dissolved" (devolved) into a community of "incel losers", not that you'd know because you joined in February and are asking such dumb questions, implying you haven't spent the few months you've been registered to actually learn about what you can do.
People are calling you a retard, because you are a retard, or at the very least, acting like one. You know what to do, now do it instead of dopamine farming thinking that you're making progress by making a thread asking for help when in reality all you're doing is arguing with people which you effectively prefaced that you knew would happen with this remark:


Fix your shit and be a better man rather than project your own insecurities onto others by calling people on here "incel losers". 90%+ of the good users on this forum are GL because they've taken advantage of the information available here, rather than relying on the input of random forum users with no credibility that are here solely to punch down.

Bro I've known what the looksmaxxing community is for a long time just never went on .org n I have a friend that's been on here way longer than I have n it is dissolved because before the community used to be slightly normal but those normal people grew up so it has just dissolved into the remaking weirdos who are just dicks and I've been trying to lose weight since I joined it's just I struggle because of the situations I'm in terms of housing and what's available to me I'm not just gonna starve myself to lose weight I try to eat healthier and consume less junk foods but again the situation I'm currently isn't allowing for the best diet and I'm trying to help it but I don't control what my family spends their money on and want to eat that's why I got a job so I can try to get my own healthier foods n what not

 

[aids]

Bro I've known what the looksmaxxing community is for a long time just never went on .org n I have a friend that's been on here way longer than I have n it is dissolved because before the community used to be slightly normal but those normal people grew up so it has just dissolved into the remaking weirdos who are just dicks and I've been trying to lose weight since I joined it's just I struggle because of the situations I'm in terms of housing and what's available to me I'm not just gonna starve myself to lose weight I try to eat healthier and consume less junk foods but again the situation I'm currently isn't allowing for the best diet and I'm trying to help it but I don't control what my family spends their money on and want to eat that's why I got a job so I can try to get my own healthier foods n what not

Instead of trauma dumping, how about you just eat less junk food if you only have access to junk food?

I don't give a fuck for what you say now, because I gave you a genuine response as to why you shouldn't be making threads like these if you actually cared enough to be good looking, and instead of taking my advice onboard, perhaps looking around at the forum; you defend your actions and explain why you're not in the wrong here, telling me how your friend has been on this website for longer and how he thinks it has "dissolved" (again, devolved*, fucking moron), into what it is now. I don't give a fuck for you or your friend, this forum hasn't changed, it's just never been welcoming to people like you of which there has been an influx of with TikTok and looksmaxing becoming relatively-more mainstream.

How about you ask your friend what to do, if he's so smart, retard?
Go fuck yourself, fatty boombah.

 

[Lil_Bannas]

why are you pink

Had to take pic on tt cause my flash on phone wasn't working so it put on a random filter n then the lighting in the room

 

[lovepillmaxing]

Bro the reason I said the fuck off n die is because I've posted normal things yet weirdos on this site still just say ropemax n other shit n the guy insulted me first and was just a douche so I was one back

So you're implying that you're no better then those people, because now you're doing the same? I guess you're the ugly insecure incel now.

 

[Lil_Bannas]

Instead of trauma dumping, how about you just eat less junk food if you only have access to junk food?

I don't give a fuck for what you say now, because I gave you a genuine response as to why you shouldn't be making threads like these if you actually cared enough to be good looking, and instead of taking my advice onboard, perhaps looking around at the forum; you defend your actions and explain why you're not in the wrong here, telling me how your friend has been on this website for longer and how he thinks it has "dissolved" (again, devolved*, fucking moron), into what it is now. I don't give a fuck for you or your friend, this forum hasn't changed, it's just never been welcoming to people like you of which there has been an influx of with TikTok and looksmaxing becoming relatively-more mainstream.

How about you ask your friend what to do, if he's so smart, retard?
Go fuck yourself, fatty boombah.

I guess bro never said anything about him being smart just about things he's agreed with n said himself and you didn't give me a genuine response you just called me a fatass and told me to lose weight im only on here because I know that people in the looksmaxxing community know other small shit that can help people look better so that's why I'm asking and posting myself again if you were a decent person you would've stated the fact that I need to lose weight and then added on with other things that I could do help improve looks but no you insulted me and just called me a retard snd fatass this is what I mean when I say the looksmaxxing community has become losers your first response is just insult no actual help

 

[lovepillmaxing]

Bro I've known what the looksmaxxing community is for a long time just never went on .org n I have a friend that's been on here way longer than I have n it is dissolved because before the community used to be slightly normal but those normal people grew up so it has just dissolved into the remaking weirdos who are just dicks and I've been trying to lose weight since I joined it's just I struggle because of the situations I'm in terms of housing and what's available to me I'm not just gonna starve myself to lose weight I try to eat healthier and consume less junk foods but again the situation I'm currently isn't allowing for the best diet and I'm trying to help it but I don't control what my family spends their money on and want to eat that's why I got a job so I can try to get my own healthier foods n what not

This is like the most pathetic excuse yet. Your house situation dictates what you eat and you being a fat obese fuck? Jesus christ, ive never seen anything like this. It's just excuses because you want to keep eating your fried chicken and sugared donuts. Dieting literally isn't the only way to lose weight, why don't you workout? Is it because your housing situation prevents you from going to the gym? You're a lazy fat retard, and this is why people tell you to rope.

 

[Lil_Bannas]

I won't deny im any bit not insecure but still I only said to hopefully drive away some of the weirdos I mean the first few responses to the post were fairly normal any other post where I've just asked for a rating or tips it's just immediately been insults

So you're implying that you're no better than those people, because now you're doing the same? I guess you're the ugly insecure incel now

 

[Lil_Bannas]

Are you dumb yes it dictates what I eat

This is like the most pathetic excuse yet. Your house situation dictates what you eat and you being a fat obese fuck? Jesus christ, ive never seen anything like this. It's just excuses because you want to keep eating your fried chicken and sugared donuts. Dieting literally isn't the only way to lose weight, why don't you workout? Is it because your housing situation prevents you from going to the gym? You're a lazy fat retard, and this is why people tell you to rope.

because I just recently got a job and still haven't got paid yet and I don't have a car so it's not like I can drive and get groceries myself so yes I sadly have to eat what is provided to me and dieting is the most importantly thing to weight loss I'm trying to get into working out not just an overnight thing bro and I honestly don't remember the last time I had donuts or fried chicken

 

[lovepillmaxing]

Are you surprised? Your logic is literally worse then a 4 year olds. A 4 year old can figure out that if they're fat as fuck, instead of looking for loopholes and excuses to avoid working out they actually work out, unlike you.

I won't deny im any bit not insecure but still I only said to hopefully drive away some of the weirdos I mean the first few responses to the post were fairly normal any other post where I've just asked for a rating or tips it's just immediately been insults

 

[aids]

I guess bro never said anything about him being smart just about things he's agreed with n said himself and you didn't give me a genuine response you just called me a fatass and told me to lose weight im only on here because I know that people in the looksmaxxing community know other small shit that can help people look better so that's why I'm asking and posting myself again if you were a decent person you would've stated the fact that I need to lose weight and then added on with other things that I could do help improve looks but no you insulted me and just called me a retard snd fatass this is what I mean when I say the looksmaxxing community has become losers your first response is just insult no actual help

Can't believe I need to reiterate the reason behind myself and others insulting you immediately is because of how you phrased your first post, effectively provoking an argument with anybody who replied, by saying that you know you're fat, so anybody that says shit should fuck off, (not verbatim because I can't be asked re-reading and quoting your dumbass).
You know you need to lose weight, you said it in the fucking first post, so I should not need to clarify that yes, you should lose weight, because you are fat. Instead, I called you retarded, because you act like you need a second opinion to determine whether or not you are fat.
Look at your fucking belly, retard.

My posts are always going to be helpful and insightful to my greatest extent for people who actually ask specific questions that cannot be answered by a general thread on particular topics, because some peoples' questions require nuance in answering. Yours does not, you are fat, lose weight. End of story.

Don't need to consult a looksmaxing forum to figure this shit out.

 

[lovepillmaxing]

He literally gave you all the advice you needed, and he's in the right. If you're here for advice stop looking for ways to make yourself right because you don't like the advice given to you- A housing situation makes you right? It doesn't, you're just a lazy fat subhuman.

I guess bro never said anything about him being smart just about things he's agreed with n said himself and you didn't give me a genuine response you just called me a fatass and told me to lose weight im only on here because I know that people in the looksmaxxing community know other small shit that can help people look better so that's why I'm asking and posting myself again if you were a decent person you would've stated the fact that I need to lose weight and then added on with other things that I could do help improve looks but no you insulted me and just called me a retard snd fatass this is what I mean when I say the looksmaxxing community has become losers your first response is just insult no actual help

 

[lovepillmaxing]

Mate, youre pathetic. Just ask your parents to get you healthier stuff you retarded little shit.

"Im trying to get into working out" is literally all i needed to hear Youre clearly not trying, you think a diet will shred you down to 12% bf? It wont, you wont even work out because youre a lazy faggot whod rather sit and play games all day, and eat what mommy and daddy provide.

Are you dumb yes it dictates what I eat

because I just recently got a job and still haven't got paid yet and I don't have a car so it's not like I can drive and get groceries myself so yes I sadly have to eat what is provided to me and dieting is the most importantly thing to weight loss I'm trying to get into working out not just an overnight thing bro and I honestly don't remember the last time I had donuts or fried chicken

 

[Lil_Bannas]

Dude are you

Can't believe I need to reiterate the reason behind myself and others insulting you immediately is because of how you phrased your first post, effectively provoking an argument with anybody who replied, by saying that you know you're fat, so anybody that says shit should fuck off, (not verbatim because I can't be asked re-reading and quoting your dumbass).
You know you need to lose weight, you said it in the fucking first post, so I should not need to clarify that yes, you should lose weight, because you are fat. Instead, I called you retarded, because you act like you need a second opinion to determine whether or not you are fat.
Look at your fucking belly, retard.

My posts are always going to be helpful and insightful to my greatest extent for people who actually ask specific questions that cannot be answered by a general thread on particular topics, because some peoples' questions require nuance in answering. Yours does not, you are fat, lose weight. End of story.

Don't need to consult a looksmaxing forum to figure this shit out.

dumb I wasn't saying fuck off if your gonna call me fat I know that I was saying it if all people are gonna call me is a fatass and or insult me again I said fuckoff unless you give actual tips I don't want the typical fatass lose weight I want genuine tips as in thing I need to cut out of my diet ie fast foods and sugars which I am currently trying to cut out sugar from my diet and fast food because I'll be getting paid soon so I'll finally be able to buy own foods and cook proper meals the tips I wanted was like the little small shit I can do to maybe improve my eyes or help with my jaw because the skin n shit on there is saggy all be it may be because of is it the weight but if there's other things I can do help make it look better while I try to lose weight I'd like to learn of and try

 

[Lil_Bannas]

Ok so if your family couldn't afford

He literally gave you all the advice you needed, and he's in the right. If you're here for advice stop looking for ways to make yourself right because you don't like the advice given to you- A housing situation makes you right? It doesn't, you're just a lazy fat subhuman.

the best foods or people if your house just didn't want to cook when they are the ones that buy the groceries and food in that not my housing situation affecting me? I have no control over what my family members buy like wtf am I supposed to do tell them to eat something else because I don't want it no I can't just do that cause it's not my money there may be the few exceptions for some nights where maybe it may happen but there not gonna do what I want every time

 

[aids]

Dude are you

dumb I wasn't saying fuck off if your gonna call me fat I know that I was saying it if all people are gonna call me is a fatass and or insult me again I said fuckoff unless you give actual tips I don't want the typical fatass lose weight I want genuine tips as in thing I need to cut out of my diet ie fast foods and sugars which I am currently trying to cut out sugar from my diet and fast food because I'll be getting paid soon so I'll finally be able to buy own foods and cook proper meals the tips I wanted was like the little small shit I can do to maybe improve my eyes or help with my jaw because the skin n shit on there is saggy all be it may be because of is it the weight but if there's other things I can do help make it look better while I try to lose weight I'd like to learn of and try

Ok so if your family couldn't afford

the best foods or people if your house just didn't want to cook when they are the ones that buy the groceries and food in that not my housing situation affecting me? I have no control over what my family members buy like wtf am I supposed to do tell them to eat something else because I don't want it no I can't just do that cause it's not my money there may be the few exceptions for some nights where maybe it may happen but there not gonna do what I want every time

Brutal IQ-pill. When your employers reverse image search your face, archived threads with this will come up showing that you are intellectually inferior with anger issues.
Kill yourself, big fat boy.

 

[Lil_Bannas]

I'm not saying

Mate, youre pathetic. Just ask your parents to get you healthier stuff you retarded little shit.

"Im trying to get into working out" is literally all i needed to hear Youre clearly not trying, you think a diet will shred you down to 12% bf? It wont, you wont even work out because youre a lazy faggot whod rather sit and play games all day, and eat what mommy and daddy provide.

just diet will shred you down to lower body fat but it's a major contributor like wtf and again it is getting into working out because I'm trying to just figure out what shit actually helps the most in weight loss I'm not just gonna do random exercises and pray it makes me lose weight I'm doing shit just not fully yet I'm still just making some of the smaller adjustments that will help

 

[Lil_Bannas]

How is this anger issues bro I'm not mad just simply confused again I came on here for tips and made the initial statement because I knows there's weird trolls that only speak in looksmax terms and won't actually provide help and again dawg I never insulted you like crazy so telling me to kill myself is wild maybe your the one with the anger issues who knows all I know is why I made the initial statement and the intent behind this post I want genuine help other then lose weight like I said maybe you could've just told me to lose weight but then also mentioned other small shit that I can do to help with other things that need improvement and I'm finna go to sleep n stop responding cause I got work but I mean hey maybe I'll make another post on here again and you'll see it hopefully next time I don't make such a outrages post to your standards and hopefully you also make give genuine help instead of just straight insults

Brutal IQ-pill. When your employers reverse image search your face, archived threads with this will come up showing that you are intellectually inferior with anger issues.
Kill yourself, big fat boy.

 

[lovepillmaxing]

I'm not saying

just diet will shred you down to lower body fat but it's a major contributor like wtf and again it is getting into working out because I'm trying to just figure out what shit actually helps the most in weight loss I'm not just gonna do random exercises and pray it makes me lose weight I'm doing shit just not fully yet I'm still just making some of the smaller adjustments that will help

Just do cardio holy shit.. go walk, sprint, go on runs.

 

[lovepillmaxing]

Ok so if your family couldn't afford

the best foods or people if your house just didn't want to cook when they are the ones that buy the groceries and food in that not my housing situation affecting me? I have no control over what my family members buy like wtf am I supposed to do tell them to eat something else because I don't want it no I can't just do that cause it's not my money there may be the few exceptions for some nights where maybe it may happen but there not gonna do what I want every time

Your parents can afford fast food but not fruits and healthy shit?

 

[Lil_Bannas]

Your parents can afford fast food but not fruits and healthy shit?

Not with my parents one their split up two I'm with my grandparents so I can work during the summer before I have to go back to school and lowk sine they're old they prefer to eat fast foods when they can and when they do buy groceries it's just frozen shit and nothing much healthy n plus they've only been to the store about twice since I've been here but I've also been going to friends houses when they go so I have no clue when they go or what they're getting

 

[lovepillmaxing]

Not with my parents one their split up two I'm with my grandparents so I can work during the summer before I have to go back to school and lowk sine they're old they prefer to eat fast foods when they can and when they do buy groceries it's just frozen shit and nothing much healthy n plus they've only been to the store about twice since I've been here but I've also been going to friends houses when they go so I have no clue when they go or what they're getting

How about instead of being a retard you go ask them to buy you some healthy shit. Should I repeat it slower for you?

 

[der_komische]

hit the gym and stop eating shitty food. Cut out all junk food completely

 

[Lil_Bannas]

How about instead of being a retard you go ask them to buy you some healthy shit. Should I repeat it slower for you?

Bruh did you not see the last part I wasn't home when they went so I didn't know they were going and they didn't call or text saying they were so I couldn't at the time ask obviously the next time they go I'll probably be here since won't have to hangout cause of work So then I will ask again instead of just being a dick respond like a normal person

 

[lovepillmaxing]

Just stop wasting my time bro, go fuck yourself you fat little piggy.

Bruh did you not see the last part I wasn't home when they went so I didn't know they were going and they didn't call or text saying they were so I couldn't at the time ask obviously the next time they go I'll probably be here since won't have to hangout cause of work So then I will ask again instead of just being a dick respond like a normal perso