connive
Iberian Prince
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GOD IS REAL
INTRO
From what I have gathered, a majority of you guys reject belief in God, whether you are an atheist, agnostic, etc. I completely understand this position because I was in the exact same place six years ago. It is true that you cannot prove God is real; however, you can't disprove Him either. On the contrary, we can follow strong logical arguments that were created by some of the greatest minds in history.
The content of this post is a twenty-page letter that I wrote to someone very dear to me. This originally took me weeks to write, so I hope that all my effort is not in vain. If this post benefits just one person, that makes it all worth it. This is being treated as a part two that is focusing on the spirituality aspect mentioned in my recent post: https://looksmax.org/threads/the-actual-dangers-of-looksmaxxing-high-iq-gtfih.2113266/
The content of this post is a twenty-page letter that I wrote to someone very dear to me. This originally took me weeks to write, so I hope that all my effort is not in vain. If this post benefits just one person, that makes it all worth it. This is being treated as a part two that is focusing on the spirituality aspect mentioned in my recent post: https://looksmax.org/threads/the-actual-dangers-of-looksmaxxing-high-iq-gtfih.2113266/
St. Thomas Aquinas
St. Thomas Aquinas offered five classic ways that still hold up remarkably well even 500 years later.
- The Argument from Motion / Change (Aquinas’ First Way): Nothing can move or change itself: whatever is in motion has to be moved by something else. Motion means reducing potentiality to actuality; only something already “actual” can do this. For example, an actuality would be “hot”. It is a potentiality to become hot. The actuality would be being “hot”. If something is put into motion, you would need a prior cause. (There cannot be an infinite chain of movers.) Therefore, there must be a First Mover that is pure actuality, that is God.
- The Argument from Efficient Causation (Second Way): Every effect has a cause. Nothing can cause itself (that would require it to exist before it exists – an absurdity.) An infinite regress of causes is impossible. If there is no first cause, there is no intermediate or final effect. Therefore, there must be a First Efficient Cause that is uncaused. This is the one who is (Exodus 3:14 “I AM WHO I AM”).
- The Argument from Contingency (Third Way): We observe many things that are contingent, beings, events, or things whose existence is not necessary, they depend on something else for their existence and could potentially not exist. (Born, grow, decay, die, break, etc.) If everything were contingent, then there would have been a time where nothing existed. To believe something can come from nothing is an absurdity. However, we can recognize existences that eventually will cease to exist, like me and you, for example.
- Therefore, it is logically impossible to deduce that everything is contingent. There must be at least one being whose nature is to exist, that has to exist. This necessary being does not derive its necessity from anything else. Otherwise, we would need another cause, which would lead to an infinite regress. It must be necessary in its very nature. This is God.
- The Argument from Degree (Fourth Way): We observe things of different degrees of quality: things are more or less good, true, beautiful, etc. These qualities are judged to a maximum or perfect standard. There must be a perfect source of all perfections, something that is perfect in every way. God is that maximum.
- We observe degrees of qualities; things are more or less good, true, beautiful, noble. These gradations imply a maximum standard. There must be a perfect source of all perfections (goodness, truth, beauty) that we participate in. God is that maximum.
- The Argument from Design / Governance (Fifth Way): The universe is not chaos. Plants, animals, laws of physics, etc., are all ordered to an end. These things lack intelligence and cannot guide themselves toward an end unless it is guided by something intelligent. For example, an arrow needs an archer. Therefore, there must be an intelligent being that directs all nature to its ends. This being is once again God.
Transcendental Argument for God
“A truly transcendental argument takes any fact of experience which it wishes to investigate, and tries to determine what the presuppositions of such fact must be, in order to make it what it is.” –Cornelius Van Til, A Survey of Christian Epistemology
We are going to be investigating human experience, knowledge, logic, morality, science, and intelligible prediction, which all are possible and actual. These experiences all presuppose specific conditions: universal, immaterial laws of logic, natural order, objective morality, the unity-and-diversity of being, and the reliability of inductive reasoning. Only the Christian worldview is true. Without the Christian worldview, there is a lack of preconditions of knowledge and meaningful experience, and more. Therefore, the triune God exists as the necessary precondition for epistemology and metaphysics.
Only the Triune God accounts for Logic and Reason, the One-and-Many Problem, Morality, and Science and Uniformity of Nature. I will go through and explain each of the following.
Laws of logic are universal, immaterial, and invariant in their very nature. They are all propositions that serve as primary bearers of truth. These are not simply linguistic or physical. You can state a law of logic in numerous languages; there is still the same law of logic that exists independently of language or brain chemistry. The issue here is that materialism will reduce them to brain chemistry, and atheism is unable to justify its application to reality without circularity or arbitrariness. The only way to ground these propositions is through a God that precedes these things.
Reality displays unity and diversity, and this is something that we can see. Pure monism reduces these distinctions into one essence; pure pluralism states that ultimate reality is not grounded in a single unified system and is grounded in diversity. This would ultimately mean that knowledge is impossible because knowledge requires relating things together. This ultimately yields chaos. The Trinity alone resolves this issue: one divine essence and three distinct Persons (hypostases) in eternal relational communion. Unity and diversity are equally ultimate and eternal in God, grounding a precedent and a coherent world without reductionism.
It is illogical for objective morality to rely on evolution, social convention, or preference. These foundations would reduce objective morality to relativism or a “might makes right.” Relativism reduces objective morality to subjectivism, and objective morality cannot work under a “might makes right” because it would assume that strength ought to define what is objectively moral. The only adequate foundation is the triune God who grounds objective morality within His holy nature, which is defined as perfect and eternal love that exists within the relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Induction assumes that the future will resemble the past. This is a principle known as the uniformity of nature. Atheistic naturalism does not offer a guarantee against radical contingency. The triune God created and continues a natural order that the world participates in as long as the earth exists. “As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease.” –Genesis 8:22 RSVCE
All religions and philosophies that deny the triune God fail to justify their own preconditions. Atheistic materialism reduces logic and morality to physics and opinion, which ultimately renders itself self-refuting. Other religions cannot adequately solve the one-and-many question and ultimately collapse into pluralism or monism.
The Transcendental Argument for God does not simply suggest God’s existence; it proves that without Him, nothing, not even the argument against Him, makes sense.
We are going to be investigating human experience, knowledge, logic, morality, science, and intelligible prediction, which all are possible and actual. These experiences all presuppose specific conditions: universal, immaterial laws of logic, natural order, objective morality, the unity-and-diversity of being, and the reliability of inductive reasoning. Only the Christian worldview is true. Without the Christian worldview, there is a lack of preconditions of knowledge and meaningful experience, and more. Therefore, the triune God exists as the necessary precondition for epistemology and metaphysics.
Only the Triune God accounts for Logic and Reason, the One-and-Many Problem, Morality, and Science and Uniformity of Nature. I will go through and explain each of the following.
Laws of logic are universal, immaterial, and invariant in their very nature. They are all propositions that serve as primary bearers of truth. These are not simply linguistic or physical. You can state a law of logic in numerous languages; there is still the same law of logic that exists independently of language or brain chemistry. The issue here is that materialism will reduce them to brain chemistry, and atheism is unable to justify its application to reality without circularity or arbitrariness. The only way to ground these propositions is through a God that precedes these things.
Reality displays unity and diversity, and this is something that we can see. Pure monism reduces these distinctions into one essence; pure pluralism states that ultimate reality is not grounded in a single unified system and is grounded in diversity. This would ultimately mean that knowledge is impossible because knowledge requires relating things together. This ultimately yields chaos. The Trinity alone resolves this issue: one divine essence and three distinct Persons (hypostases) in eternal relational communion. Unity and diversity are equally ultimate and eternal in God, grounding a precedent and a coherent world without reductionism.
It is illogical for objective morality to rely on evolution, social convention, or preference. These foundations would reduce objective morality to relativism or a “might makes right.” Relativism reduces objective morality to subjectivism, and objective morality cannot work under a “might makes right” because it would assume that strength ought to define what is objectively moral. The only adequate foundation is the triune God who grounds objective morality within His holy nature, which is defined as perfect and eternal love that exists within the relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Induction assumes that the future will resemble the past. This is a principle known as the uniformity of nature. Atheistic naturalism does not offer a guarantee against radical contingency. The triune God created and continues a natural order that the world participates in as long as the earth exists. “As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease.” –Genesis 8:22 RSVCE
All religions and philosophies that deny the triune God fail to justify their own preconditions. Atheistic materialism reduces logic and morality to physics and opinion, which ultimately renders itself self-refuting. Other religions cannot adequately solve the one-and-many question and ultimately collapse into pluralism or monism.
The Transcendental Argument for God does not simply suggest God’s existence; it proves that without Him, nothing, not even the argument against Him, makes sense.
The Patristic Argument for the Existence of God
1. Everything that changes needs a Maker who doesn’t change (The “Uncreated Creator” Argument)
By: St. John of Damascus (c. 675-749 A.D.)
Everything we see around us is contingent — it comes into being, changes or eventually ends.. Stars burn out, living things die, man-made things break, etc. These realities cannot be self-explanatory; they require an external cause. If every cause itself needs a prior cause, we would face an infinite regress with no ultimate explanation. Therefore, there must be a creator who is eternal and is uncreated. This is God — the eternal source of all existence.
2. The perfect order and balance in the universe can’t be luck or chance (The “Harmony and Design” Argument)
The world is full of opposite forces that should clash yet somehow work together — fire and water, for example. Seasons arrive on schedule year after year. Even more impressive are living systems in nature. For example, a forest: trees release oxygen that animals need to breathe, while animals give off carbon dioxide that trees use to grow. Insects pollinate flowers, predators control animal populations, and bacteria breaks down dead matter to return nutrients to the soil. All these parts fit together in a balanced, ongoing cycle. If everything happened by random change, it’s hard to explain why we see this kind of stable order and teamwork instead of total chaos or everything being the same.
3. Deep down, we already know God exists (The “Implanted Knowledge” Argument)
Throughout history, almost every culture has believed in some higher power, even without hearing about the Bible. This feeling is built into human nature, similar to knowing right from wrong. Creation (sunsets, stars, a newborn baby) often stirs a sense that life isn’t meaningless. Only strong distractions or habits can push this awareness away. This inner sense suggests we’re wired to recognize something greater than ourselves.
4. Variety and Beauty in Creation Can’t Come from Blind Cause
If the world was created by random atoms or blind forces, everything would likely be uniform and mush. However, we see purposeful diversity: sun and moon, land and sea, unique plants and animals, all beautiful in their own way. This variety of beauty reflects an intelligent creator.
By: St. John of Damascus (c. 675-749 A.D.)
Everything we see around us is contingent — it comes into being, changes or eventually ends.. Stars burn out, living things die, man-made things break, etc. These realities cannot be self-explanatory; they require an external cause. If every cause itself needs a prior cause, we would face an infinite regress with no ultimate explanation. Therefore, there must be a creator who is eternal and is uncreated. This is God — the eternal source of all existence.
2. The perfect order and balance in the universe can’t be luck or chance (The “Harmony and Design” Argument)
The world is full of opposite forces that should clash yet somehow work together — fire and water, for example. Seasons arrive on schedule year after year. Even more impressive are living systems in nature. For example, a forest: trees release oxygen that animals need to breathe, while animals give off carbon dioxide that trees use to grow. Insects pollinate flowers, predators control animal populations, and bacteria breaks down dead matter to return nutrients to the soil. All these parts fit together in a balanced, ongoing cycle. If everything happened by random change, it’s hard to explain why we see this kind of stable order and teamwork instead of total chaos or everything being the same.
3. Deep down, we already know God exists (The “Implanted Knowledge” Argument)
Throughout history, almost every culture has believed in some higher power, even without hearing about the Bible. This feeling is built into human nature, similar to knowing right from wrong. Creation (sunsets, stars, a newborn baby) often stirs a sense that life isn’t meaningless. Only strong distractions or habits can push this awareness away. This inner sense suggests we’re wired to recognize something greater than ourselves.
4. Variety and Beauty in Creation Can’t Come from Blind Cause
If the world was created by random atoms or blind forces, everything would likely be uniform and mush. However, we see purposeful diversity: sun and moon, land and sea, unique plants and animals, all beautiful in their own way. This variety of beauty reflects an intelligent creator.
The Human Person
Beyond the physical world, look inward. We experience an objective moral law—
Deep down we know some things are truly right and wrong, not just cultural preferences (e.g., the slaughter of children is evil everywhere). Conscience calls us to goodness beyond self-interest. Where does this binding moral obligation come from if the universe is just blind matter? A moral Lawgiver best explains it.
We also have desires that nothing in this world fully satisfies: endless hunger for truth, beauty, perfect love, and lasting happiness. These point beyond the material to a transcendent fulfillment—God. Our very capacity for reason and science assumes an orderly, intelligible universe, which a rational Creator explains better than chance.
Without an intelligent creator there would be no objective morality. The only morality that would be present would be subjective. However, we know that there is an objective morality because there is something deep within us that tells us whether something is right or wrong i.e. your conscience. Objectively speaking we all agree that murder is wrong. It is wrong because it is the unlawful taking of another person’s life. We must ask ourselves, “Why does that matter?” It matters because there is an intelligent creator who designed us in his image and likeness, who provided us with a soul, a purpose, the ability to reason, etc. Without this world view, murder would not matter, we would simply be “bags of meat/clumps of cells” who have no transcendent value. who are in motion. If we have no purpose and we are here purely by chance then it wouldn’t matter if one person killed another. Without an intelligent creator we must ask, “Who cares if one clump of cells happens to bump into another clump of cells and kill it?” It wouldn’t matter because there is no purpose to our lives, there is no reason for us to live, there is no intelligent creator.
A lot of atheists argue that the value of life comes from thought, love, experience, etc. At the end of the day, however, none of this matters without a God. The absence of God means an absence of objective morality, an absence of love, etc. All of these things are reduced to purposeless electrochemical events in a purposeless universe, which would render them lacking in objective or ultimate significance. If we are here by chance, why treat love more than a useful illusion or murder as more than rearranging particles?
Deep down we know some things are truly right and wrong, not just cultural preferences (e.g., the slaughter of children is evil everywhere). Conscience calls us to goodness beyond self-interest. Where does this binding moral obligation come from if the universe is just blind matter? A moral Lawgiver best explains it.
We also have desires that nothing in this world fully satisfies: endless hunger for truth, beauty, perfect love, and lasting happiness. These point beyond the material to a transcendent fulfillment—God. Our very capacity for reason and science assumes an orderly, intelligible universe, which a rational Creator explains better than chance.
Without an intelligent creator there would be no objective morality. The only morality that would be present would be subjective. However, we know that there is an objective morality because there is something deep within us that tells us whether something is right or wrong i.e. your conscience. Objectively speaking we all agree that murder is wrong. It is wrong because it is the unlawful taking of another person’s life. We must ask ourselves, “Why does that matter?” It matters because there is an intelligent creator who designed us in his image and likeness, who provided us with a soul, a purpose, the ability to reason, etc. Without this world view, murder would not matter, we would simply be “bags of meat/clumps of cells” who have no transcendent value. who are in motion. If we have no purpose and we are here purely by chance then it wouldn’t matter if one person killed another. Without an intelligent creator we must ask, “Who cares if one clump of cells happens to bump into another clump of cells and kill it?” It wouldn’t matter because there is no purpose to our lives, there is no reason for us to live, there is no intelligent creator.
A lot of atheists argue that the value of life comes from thought, love, experience, etc. At the end of the day, however, none of this matters without a God. The absence of God means an absence of objective morality, an absence of love, etc. All of these things are reduced to purposeless electrochemical events in a purposeless universe, which would render them lacking in objective or ultimate significance. If we are here by chance, why treat love more than a useful illusion or murder as more than rearranging particles?
The Restlessness of the Human Heart
One of the Doctors of the Church and Church Father, St. Augustine’s most famous quote is, “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.”
Look inward and dig deep down. Do you ever sense a kind of emptiness that no relationship, achievement, experience, entertainment, or success has ever fully satisfied? You may find temporal things that bring real joy, and that’s good, but that eventually fades, leaving the same emptiness behind. Many people who step away from faith notice this same pattern: temporal fillers that never reach the depth that is craved.
The Catholic tradition doesn’t see this as a flaw or psychological accident, but as powerful evidence that we were made for something, someone, infinite. Our hearts are wired for perfect Truth, perfect Beauty, perfect Love, and perfect Happiness. Nothing in the created world will be able to ultimately fill that void because we were created by and for God. St. Augustine’s prayer, “Our hearts are restless until they rest in You.” doesn’t prove God exists on its own, but it fits perfectly with everything else we’ve seen: a universe that points to an intelligent Creator, and a human heart that hungers for the infinite. Faith in Christ doesn’t erase life’s struggles, but it offers the relationship that can finally satisfy the deepest part of who we are.
Look inward and dig deep down. Do you ever sense a kind of emptiness that no relationship, achievement, experience, entertainment, or success has ever fully satisfied? You may find temporal things that bring real joy, and that’s good, but that eventually fades, leaving the same emptiness behind. Many people who step away from faith notice this same pattern: temporal fillers that never reach the depth that is craved.
The Catholic tradition doesn’t see this as a flaw or psychological accident, but as powerful evidence that we were made for something, someone, infinite. Our hearts are wired for perfect Truth, perfect Beauty, perfect Love, and perfect Happiness. Nothing in the created world will be able to ultimately fill that void because we were created by and for God. St. Augustine’s prayer, “Our hearts are restless until they rest in You.” doesn’t prove God exists on its own, but it fits perfectly with everything else we’ve seen: a universe that points to an intelligent Creator, and a human heart that hungers for the infinite. Faith in Christ doesn’t erase life’s struggles, but it offers the relationship that can finally satisfy the deepest part of who we are.
A Black Pill Argument Against God
One of the most common refutations against God's existence I see on here is, "Why would God create subhumans?"
My response:
Every person has infinite dignity because they were created in the image and likeness of God. This dignity is not based on a looks scale. It’s inherent from the moment of conception. We must keep in mind that the world is not in its final, perfected state, and because of original sin, there is a brokenness of creation, which causes a spectrum of outcomes: some people are born with ideal genetics, and some people have severe deformities.
St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that the universe is more perfect with this range of perfections and imperfections. A world with stable natural laws allows for defects. Look at the looks hierarchy. We recognize that some people are chads and some people are gigadeformed subhumans. These are clear degrees of beauty that are not random chaos. This is a perfect example of Aquinas’ Fourth Way, which states that gradations only exist because they participate in a perfect, maximum Beauty. If everyone were equally attractive, this would actually argue against God. The brutal reality is that the looks scale itself is evidence of a Creator. God does not override the natural laws of the world with constant miracles because that would collapse creation into chaos. Subhumans are extreme cases of a fallen material world.
Everyone has a cross to bear and not everyone gets the same cross to bear. Some people hit the genetic lottery and have a different cross to bear than people who are born with poor genetics. We must keep in mind that even if someone is subhuman, they may be able to develop different virtues that may be harder for a Chad to develop. Some of these virtues include: radical humility, detachment from vanity, etc.
It is true that life is brutally unfair on the looks scale in this fallen world, and Catholic theology agrees; however, it adds that this earthly life is not the whole story. Your looks are temporal; what lasts is how you play the cards you are dealt. For example, the subhuman who improves what he can and unites his suffering towards Christ can rank higher in eternity than a Chad who is arrogant and uses his gifts on pride and vice. This is not to say that a Chad cannot have the same virtues as said subhuman.
There is no problem with improving what you can, however, it is important not to idolize looks because they are not your ultimate worth and are not the telos to life. Furthermore, even if you are subhuman, you are not worthless because you have an immortal soul and have an infinite ontological dignity and were created in the image and likeness of God.
In the same way that God allows suffering in the fallen world, he permits extreme genetic deformities. Christ’s passion shows that he did not abstain from deformity and pain; he entered it himself and lived out the fallen world and suffered himself.
My response:
Every person has infinite dignity because they were created in the image and likeness of God. This dignity is not based on a looks scale. It’s inherent from the moment of conception. We must keep in mind that the world is not in its final, perfected state, and because of original sin, there is a brokenness of creation, which causes a spectrum of outcomes: some people are born with ideal genetics, and some people have severe deformities.
St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that the universe is more perfect with this range of perfections and imperfections. A world with stable natural laws allows for defects. Look at the looks hierarchy. We recognize that some people are chads and some people are gigadeformed subhumans. These are clear degrees of beauty that are not random chaos. This is a perfect example of Aquinas’ Fourth Way, which states that gradations only exist because they participate in a perfect, maximum Beauty. If everyone were equally attractive, this would actually argue against God. The brutal reality is that the looks scale itself is evidence of a Creator. God does not override the natural laws of the world with constant miracles because that would collapse creation into chaos. Subhumans are extreme cases of a fallen material world.
Everyone has a cross to bear and not everyone gets the same cross to bear. Some people hit the genetic lottery and have a different cross to bear than people who are born with poor genetics. We must keep in mind that even if someone is subhuman, they may be able to develop different virtues that may be harder for a Chad to develop. Some of these virtues include: radical humility, detachment from vanity, etc.
It is true that life is brutally unfair on the looks scale in this fallen world, and Catholic theology agrees; however, it adds that this earthly life is not the whole story. Your looks are temporal; what lasts is how you play the cards you are dealt. For example, the subhuman who improves what he can and unites his suffering towards Christ can rank higher in eternity than a Chad who is arrogant and uses his gifts on pride and vice. This is not to say that a Chad cannot have the same virtues as said subhuman.
There is no problem with improving what you can, however, it is important not to idolize looks because they are not your ultimate worth and are not the telos to life. Furthermore, even if you are subhuman, you are not worthless because you have an immortal soul and have an infinite ontological dignity and were created in the image and likeness of God.
In the same way that God allows suffering in the fallen world, he permits extreme genetic deformities. Christ’s passion shows that he did not abstain from deformity and pain; he entered it himself and lived out the fallen world and suffered himself.
@ALBOSS @Jason Voorhees @GUMMIKZKDI @Acquiescence @avgsub5human @Paul.jnxy
