Help me pick my surgeries cause im so fucking cooked rn its over

[Deleted member 133173]

lefort 3 bro are you serious… no doctor would ever agree on doing this on him ever u have no clue

yeah lmao a lot of people here dont know anything about what theyre talking about

 

[geenk worg]

lefort 3 bro are you serious… no doctor would ever agree on doing this on him ever u have no clue

probably not true. his face is legitimately deformed

 

[Deleted member 133173]

probably not true. his face is legitimately deformed

i have a 5mm underbite where in the world would a surgeon be willing to do LF3 on me

 

[geenk worg]

i have a 5mm underbite where in the world would a surgeon be willing to do LF3 on me

well firstly, 5mm underbite is a lot. second, your whole midface is set back with the nose as well. I'd say you're a lefort 2/3 candidate combined with rhino, lefort 1 ccwr and genio. you should opt for a very high lefort 1 at least if you can't get lefort 2/3

 

[Lefor3Laser]

well firstly, 5mm underbite is a lot. second, your whole midface is set back with the nose as well. I'd say you're a lefort 2/3 candidate combined with rhino, lefort 1 ccwr and genio. you should opt for a very high lefort 1 at least if you can't get lefort 2/3

Sorry but you know that le fort 2 and especially le fort 3 is for extreme cases, you'll have to be literally deformed to get it.

 

[Deleted member 133173]

well firstly, 5mm underbite is a lot. second, your whole midface is set back with the nose as well. I'd say you're a lefort 2/3 candidate combined with rhino, lefort 1 ccwr and genio. you should opt for a very high lefort 1 at least if you can't get lefort 2/3

So basically rhino ,BSSO ccwr , high LF1 and genio ? do i add implants to the mix ?

 

[Deleted member 133173]

Sorry but you know that le fort 2 and especially le fort 3 is for extreme cases, you'll have to be literally deformed to get it.

thats what i was saying , from my research people who get LF2s and 3s are literally very deformed and have underbites that are more than 10 or 12 mms

 

[nik.077]

probably not true. his face is legitimately deformed

you obviously have no clue what you are talking about too. these are lf3 candidates. OBVIOUSLY not him. there will be NO surgeon
who will agree to perform a lefort 3 on a non syndrome patient especially for COSMETIC REASONS

 

[Deleted member 133173]

you obviously have no clue what you are talking about too. these are lf3 candidates. OBVIOUSLY not him. there will be NO surgeon
who will agree to perform a lefort 3 on a non syndrome patient especially for COSMETIC REASONS View attachment 3570747

 

[moze]

lefort 3 bro are you serious… no doctor would ever agree on doing this on him ever u have no clue

His case pretty sever

 

[Deleted member 133173]

His case pretty sever

do i look like the people in that picture lmao ?

 

[Deleted member 91663]

His case pretty sever

Moze, it's not considered clinically severe at 5mm. I'm telling you this because i've seen half a dozen surgeons.
He's in the moderate category.

 

[Deleted member 91663]

do i look like the people in that picture lmao ?

Moze is well intentioned but is completely wrong on this.
I'm working on making him a more rounded individual.

 

[Deleted member 133173]

Moze is well intentioned but does not get everything right.
I'm working on making him a more rounded individual.

Wow okay good you seem high iq snicket

 

[Deleted member 91663]

Wow okay good you seem high iq snicket

LF2-3 is reserved for syndromic cases in 99% of cases.
10mm+ is classed as severe.

 

[Deleted member 133173]

I've edited to completely wrong because Moze is unequivocally wrong here.
LF2-3 is reserved for syndromic cases in 99% of cases.
10mm+ is classed as severe.

yep thats what i noticed

 

[Deleted member 91663]

yep thats what i noticed

The issue with a lot of users here is they are benchmarking against male models like Jordan Barrett with top tier forward growth instead of people with ordinary craniofacial development.

 

[Deleted member 133173]

The issue with a lot of users here is they are benchmarking against male models like Jordan Barrett with top tier forward growth instead of people with ordinary craniofacial development.

yeah im definetely deformed to oblivion if you compare me to jordan

 

[muragoat]

what more should i get to reach htn ? (money isnt a problem)

canthoplasty otoplasty commissuroplasty

 

[Deleted member 91663]

yeah im definetely deformed to oblivion if you compare me to jordan

The goal of craniofacial sugery is normalization - not turning patients into models.
Surgery isn't equipped to do this; it can't match natural growth.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

yeah im definetely deformed to oblivion if you compare me to jordan

Why compare yourself to someone with excelent foward growth instead of normal people?, plus that to pull that look you'll also need to have everything else forwardly grown, not just maxilla and jaw.

 

[Deleted member 91663]

Why compare yourself to someone with excelent foward growth instead of normal people?, plus that to pull that look you'll also need to have everything else forwardly grown, not just maxilla and jaw.

It's can't be surgically replicated anyway. Natural growth will always trump surgery unfortunately.
You can improve on your base but you can't fundamentally change it.

 

[soggra]

Canthoplasty, otoplasty, bimax, cheekbone and paranasal implants, and rhinoplasty

 

[Deleted member 133173]

Why compare yourself to someone with excelent foward growth instead of normal people?, plus that to pull that look you'll also need to have everything else forwardly grown, not just maxilla and jaw.

i know i wasnt comparing my self to any model in the first place , i just want to look normal and get a base that i can work on at least

 

[Lefor3Laser]

It's can't be surgically replicated anyway. Natural growth will always trump surgery unfortunately.
You can improve on your base but you can't fundamentally change it.

Yeah that's what i meant, even if it is achievable, it will still not look like the natural forward growth.

 

[Deleted member 133173]

Yeah that's what i meant, even if it is achievable, it will still not look like the natural forward growth.

yeah exactly , if only in the future something like cranium transplant appears ill be the first to get it jfl

 

[Deleted member 91663]

Yeah that's what i meant, even if it is achievable, it will still not look like the natural forward growth.

That's why "step-off" is a big concern even in high level LeForts among other things.
I wish there were a silver bullet for a recessed maxilla but probably not during my lifetime.

 

[nik.077]

His case pretty sever

he doesnt have Crouzon syndrome therefore he doesnt need (or could even get) a lefort 3.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

That's why "step-off" is a big concern even in high level LeForts among other things.
I wish there were a silver bullet for a recessed maxilla but probably not during my lifetime.

Unfortunately those are the only options that the medicine gives us, will take time until better tools and more time for advanced procedures to be out, hopefully sooner than later.

 

[Deleted member 133173]

That's why "step-off" is a big concern even in high level LeForts among other things.
I wish there were a silver bullet for a recessed maxilla but probably not during my lifetime.

yeah at least now i know what to get , so time to moneymaxx for the next 3 years

 

[nik.077]

he doesnt have Crouzon syndrome therefore he doesnt need (or could even get) a lefort 3.

edited because unecessary overly agressive lol

 

[Deleted member 91663]

yeah at least now i know what to get , so time to moneymaxx for the next 3 years

Exactly, Having an actionable plan will put you in a much better place.

 

[superpsycho]

 

[altbones]

View attachment 3568741View attachment 3568743
Currently subh , what am i going to be if i get the following surgeries : Bimax +Rhino , Infras
And what other surgeries should i get to ascend to something socially acceptable like mtn ??
PS:If not obvious i have a severe underbite so maybe ill look better when i fix that

I’m so sorry bro.. omg this is horrible

 

[geenk worg]

Sorry but you know that le fort 2 and especially le fort 3 is for extreme cases, you'll have to be literally deformed to get it.

you obviously have no clue what you are talking about too. these are lf3 candidates. OBVIOUSLY not him. there will be NO surgeon
who will agree to perform a lefort 3 on a non syndrome patient especially for COSMETIC REASONS

what's the argument here? if you go by medical measurements he would be about as recessed as most lefort 3 cases you can find online including this woman.

and yes, severe recession is a deformity. i can't believe that i have to mention that in this forum.

 

[Deleted member 133173]

what's the argument here? if you go by medical measurements he would be about as recessed as most lefort 3 cases you can find online including this woman.

and yes, severe recession is a deformity. i can't believe that i have to mention that in this forum.

ill have to check with a surgeon.

 

[nik.077]

what's the argument here? if you go by medical measurements he would be about as recessed as most lefort 3 cases you can find online including this woman.

and yes, severe recession is a deformity. i can't believe that i have to mention that in this forum.

i really dont get how u seriously think he is a lf3 candidate with a 5mm bite and non syndrom for cosmetical reasons

 

[nik.077]

what's the argument here? if you go by medical measurements he would be about as recessed as most lefort 3 cases you can find online including this woman.

and yes, severe recession is a deformity. i can't believe that i have to mention that in this forum.

@Snicket another one you can teach if u want

 

[Deleted member 91663]

@Snicket another one you can teach if u want

Can't be bothered. If I had a dime for every user advocating LeFort 3......

 

[Lefor3Laser]

what's the argument here? if you go by medical measurements he would be about as recessed as most lefort 3 cases you can find online including this woman.

and yes, severe recession is a deformity. i can't believe that i have to mention that in this forum.

So if he was a le fort 3 case, and there are people with worse recessions than him, why aren't they prescribed to get le fort 3?, tell me, how many non syndromatic people tend to get le fort 3?, from serious professional surgeons.

Why does org always think that this is a easy surgery, when i was back then in this forum it was used as a trolling, but now i actually see users begin serious about it.

 

[geenk worg]

i really dont get how u seriously think he is a lf3 candidate with a 5mm bite and non syndrom for cosmetical reasons

i really dont get how u seriously think he is a lf3 candidate with a 5mm bite and non syndrom for cosmetical reasons

So if he was a le fort 3 case, and there are people with worse recessions than him, why aren't they prescribed to get le fort 3?, tell me, how many non syndromatic people tend to get le fort 3?, from serious professional surgeons.

Why does org always think that this is a easy surgery, when i was back then in this forum it was used as a trolling, but now i actually see users begin serious about it.

if you guys actually read up in the thread instead of raging up on me for 0 reason, you'd see that i didn't rush him for opting for lefort 3/2. the point that i made was that i think there is probably somewhere some reputable western surgeon out there who would perform it, maybe not as a first option but it's possible. i don't think he should opt for it either. but at this level of recession it's not a far stretch. i know personally a surgeon who preformed a lefort 2 on a less extreme deformed patient.

 

[geenk worg]

^ @Snicket i tried to quote you too but missclicked

 

[nik.077]

if you guys actually read up in the thread instead of raging up on me for 0 reason, you'd see that i didn't rush him for opting for lefort 3/2. the point that i made was that i think there is probably somewhere some reputable western surgeon out there who would perform it, maybe not as a first option but it's possible. i don't think he should opt for it either. but at this level of recession it's not a far stretch. i know personally a surgeon who preformed a lefort 2 on a less extreme deformed patient.

okay. I disagree with that as I dont believe there will be a reputable surgeon accepting a lefort 3 even as a second option as its again not for these cases. I dont think we will come to a shared opinion here so lets just both agree to disagree or however you say it (english is not my first language)

 

[Lefor3Laser]

if you guys actually read up in the thread instead of raging up on me for 0 reason, you'd see that i didn't rush him for opting for lefort 3/2. the point that i made was that i think there is probably somewhere some reputable western surgeon out there who would perform it, maybe not as a first option but it's possible. i don't think he should opt for it either. but at this level of recession it's not a far stretch. i know personally a surgeon who preformed a lefort 2 on a less extreme deformed patient.

First of all, we aren't raging, i don't like to fight or anything, i like to keep the conversation as civilized as possible.

If you are right, i am yet to see a surgeon wich actually performs le fort 3 on him, even if he was able to get le fort 2/3, you know that it won't be a big movement since you'll have to also take into consideration the nerves, you can't just do a cww with a le fort 3 and call it a day, it's psychically impossible, those surgeons are probably money minded, butchers or actually legit surgeons.

Again i respect that you actually are trying to help and i am not against that.

He would better be with implants and bimax rather than le fort 3 tbh.

 

[Deleted member 91663]

you'd see that i didn't rush him for opting for lefort 3/2.

When a person starts losing an argument, they resort to this kind of backsliding.

Yet just one post earlier:

if you go by medical measurements he would be about as recessed as most lefort 3 cases

The only possible conclusion from this statement is that you thought OP should have a LeFort 2 or 3.

i know personally a surgeon who preformed a lefort 2 on a less extreme deformed patient.

Who? How bad was the patient's underbite?

 

[Acne Victim]

A

 

[geenk worg]

When a person starts losing an argument, they resort to this kind of backsliding.

Yet just one post earlier:

The only possible conclusion from this statement is that you thought OP should have a LeFort 2 or 3.

You may interpret me however you wish, but that is literally not what I said.
i don't think that every lefort 2/3 candidates should always opt for a lefort 2/3, because i am aware that it is a dangerous ass surgery that very few surgeons would preform. but that doesn't make them any less of lefort 2/3 candidates because by facial norms that's really what they are.

 

[Deleted member 91663]

You may interpret me however you wish, but that is literally not what I said.
i don't think that every lefort 2/3 candidates should always opt for a lefort 2/3, because i am aware that it is a dangerous ass surgery that very few surgeons would preform. but that doesn't make them any less of lefort 2/3 candidates because by facial norms that's really what they are.

It's your own quote: "if you go by medical measurements he would be about as recessed as most lefort 3 cases".
If someone is recessed as most lefort 3 cases, the treatment is none other than LeFort 3 - there are no caveats to this.

Who was the surgeon who performed LF3 on a less severe patient and how severe was his underbite?
Could you at least provide some more info on this for my own interest. Thank you.

 

[geenk worg]

If someone is recessed as most lefort 3 cases, the treatment is none other than LeFort 3 - there are no caveats to this.

i just explained why i don't think it's as simple as it is but alright.

Who was the surgeon who performed LF3 on a less severe patient and how severe was his underbite?
Could you at least provide some more info on this for my own interest. Thank you

He had about the same amount of underbite. i would share with you all the other details in private.

 

[Acne Victim]

My honest opinion

Starting from the bottom: from how I see it, a good lower third requires 4 main aspects -> occlusion/forward growth, chin + ramus dimensions, and mandibular concavity. I'll cover each of them on your case now

- Occlusion/forward growth: start with bimax, no questions asked here, your malocclusion destroys your facial harmony. You need a very good bimax. It's gonna be a good improvement on itself and will give you a better idea on how to proceed forward, as a lot of minor changes on your face could make something that wasn't necessary before necessary now, and vice-versa.
- Chin: it's way too disproportional for your face. No matter how much you bring the rest of your face forward, it still needs a lot of reshaping, with mainly height reduction, as your width seems good. A good metric is the jaw frontal angle - and yours is very low. A proportional lower third requires both ramus and chin to be harmonious in height/width.
- Ramus: adding on the last point, to make your lower third ideal, you need a better ramus, no questions asked. Bimax could likely worsen it btw. I would still say it's a must do if you're getting the rest.
- The BSSO might give you some "bone overgrowth" near the cut region - basically here:

I think that you could benefit from some shaving there regardless of bimax, as it will increase your mandibular concavity (basically, you want the jaw to form a small curve inwards, with the chin and jaw angles being relatively wider).

Now that we have covered the jaw, let's get to the rest, which is arguably as important:

- Infras alone will do not do much for you. Definitely not a priority. What you really only need a BIG malar component, as you're very deficient there. So go moderate/conservative on the infra component, but heavy on malars
- Unlike most people here, you're a genuine canthoplasty candidate, with actual NCT. This is gonna be likely independent from all other surgeries (i.e. bimax changes the nose, no surgery besides cantho changes your canthal tilt, despite what anyone here might say)
- Your nose should change for the better with bimax. But it's still gonna be deficient. You will most likely need at least tip and alar base work. Projection I'm not so sure, I think you can get away without it, assuming it's proportional to the rest of your "new face".
- I'm not so sure about the entire maxillary projection part. I guess you could get paranasals + projection rhino, but as I said before, it might not be needed, as you have bigger priorities
- There is more that I didn't cover, either because I can't assess confidently from these pics, or because I don't know how it will be after you get all of the other surgeries first

A realistic plan could be:

- Surgery 1: Bimax
- Surgery 2: Implants
- Surgery 3: Lower third reshaping + rhino
- Surgery 4: Canthoplasty

Do you need all of this? It depends. If you truly wanna look better, you likely do. But that's your choice, surgery isn't perfect and neither a guarantee to make you good looking. Just to be clear, I'm not a doctor, so consult with many before taking a decision based on what a PSL autist told you to do

Hope this helps