how can a creator God/mind exist?

[Anyanglover]

I'm a christian,not here to promote atheism but these are some arguments I've heard from some philosophical atheists.

in christianity(and all theism),God is unconditioned.however a unconditioned being cannot change,as to change by creating,willing(even self willing),knowing(even knowing itself) etc is to undergoe a intrinsic change(making it conditioned) not a cambridge one as even christian theologian dr.ryan mullins argues and a unconditioned being has no potentiality according to traditional christian scholars themselves.

because change is a result of some outside force acting upon a subject in aristotlean metaphysics(wich also refutes libertarian free will) wich christianity,maimonidean judaism and avicennian islam is based on.and God was the only subject.

furthermore for the son to incarnate in space time and a body would mean a intrinsic change,and since the son is identical with the 'actual' numerically one divine essence atleast in classic theism,that means that the entire Godhead has a added on human nature.

furthermore,a unconditioned mind sounds like a oxymoron since a mind changes by definition.


what are some more sophisticated christian replies to this?

I am not convinced of atheism either,because to deny a unconditioned essence altogether means everything is created in infinite regress.

 

[BigBiceps]

God is too advanced of a being for us to ponder. It's like we're ants wondering how is human so smart and formidable. Bible helps you understand these things, but I personally don't take everything they describe in it as absolute truths, after all it was just written by us men, not by him, the god.
And Jesus is fully a man, fully a god. Father is not identical to Jesus and is fully a god, not a man. Man is just the image of him.

 

[Deleted member 1588]

There is no god tbh if there is he just likes to let people suffer..
Would god be so cruel to give kids cancer at 3 ,kids dying in poverty,disabled people etc..
While others r just born with wealth nd good looks

 

[Cigarette]

only thing i believe in is reincarnation

 

[Deleted member 4106]

I'm a christian,not here to promote atheism but these are some arguments I've heard from some philosophical atheists.

in christianity(and all theism),God is unconditioned.however a unconditioned being cannot change,as to change by creating,willing(even self willing),knowing(even knowing itself) etc is to undergoe a intrinsic change(making it conditioned) not a cambridge one as even christian theologian dr.ryan mullins argues and a unconditioned being has no potentiality according to traditional christian scholars themselves.

because change is a result of some outside force acting upon a subject in aristotlean metaphysics(wich also refutes libertarian free will) wich christianity,maimonidean judaism and avicennian islam is based on.and God was the only subject.

furthermore for the son to incarnate in space time and a body would mean a intrinsic change,and since the son is identical with the 'actual' numerically one divine essence atleast in classic theism,that means that the entire Godhead has a added on human nature.

furthermore,a unconditioned mind sounds like a oxymoron since a mind changes by definition.


what are some more sophisticated christian replies to this?

I am not convinced of atheism either,because to deny a unconditioned essence altogether means everything is created in infinite regress.

This is because a lot of theologians and philosophers place random attributes without a biblical basis in God.

 

[BigBiceps]

There is no god tbh if there is he just likes to let people suffer..
Would god be so cruel to give kids cancer at 3 ,kids dying in poverty,disabled people etc..
While others r just born with wealth nd good looks

Adam and Eve lived in Eden, where there was no suffering. There was only one condition, and Eve disobeyed that rule, condemning humanity for all time. If you were a god, would you just keep forgiving and create a paradise for the people, who have repeatedly insulted your name and betrayed your trust? We live constantly disrespecting him and committing sins, not following his rules, yet expect him to make the earth a heaven for us.

 

[hebbewem]

Adam and Eve lived in Eden, where there was no suffering. There was only one condition, and Eve disobeyed that rule, condemning humanity for all time. If you were a god, would you just keep forgiving and create a paradise for the people, who have repeatedly insulted your name and betrayed your trust? We live constantly disrespecting him and committing sins, not following his rules, yet expect him to make the earth a heaven for us.
View attachment 1486916

He know it would happen because he created them that way

 

[Deleted member 1588]

Adam and Eve lived in Eden, where there was no suffering. There was only one condition, and Eve disobeyed that rule, condemning humanity for all time. If you were a god, would you just keep forgiving and create a paradise for the people, who have repeatedly insulted your name and betrayed your trust? We live constantly disrespecting him and committing sins, not following his rules, yet expect him to make the earth a heaven for us.
View attachment 1486916

I am no athiest i believe in god too but sometimes its hard to think that there is a god when there is too much suffering from some people in the world like they dont even get to eat what kind of god would do that to his children and yet he claims to love them all equally??

Besides i think religion nd god is cope for humans to think their shit life is due to some bad karmas or whatever

 

[BigBiceps]

He know it would happen because he created them that way

God gave them simply a choice, if there was no choice, it would've been prison.

 

[hebbewem]

God gave them simply a choice, if there was no choice, it would've been prison.
View attachment 1486927

Nothing wrong with prisons .. how .he created their genes and their enverioment and he know everything thqt would happen because he created them that way so it wasent a choice

 

[BigBiceps]

I am no athiest i believe in god too but sometimes its hard to think that there is a god when there is too much suffering from some people in the world like they dont even get to eat what kind of god would do that to his children and yet he claims to love them all equally??

Besides i think religion nd god is cope for humans to think their shit life is due to some bad karmas or whatever

Ask yourself this. You see two beggars in the street, one spits on you and calls you names and praises your nemesis. The other acts humbled and asks for something to eat, only to sustain himself. Which would you rather help? So how are you so quick to judge god, when you're no better than him?
Also there is a place called heaven, kingdom of god, where there is no suffering. But would you invite that first beggar who so disrespects you, to live in your house?

 

[BigBiceps]

Nothing wrong with prisons .. how .he created their genes and their enverioment and he know everything thqt would happen because he created them that way so it wasent a choice

Just like creator of a video game world never faces bugs, glitches or unexpected events after creating it himself? Also imagine you create such a world in your computer, and the characters of your game start blaming you for creating such a shithole, and demand you fix it all immediately. You'd probably work overtime to succumb to their demands, right?

 

[hebbewem]

Just like creator of a video game world never faces bugs, glitches or unexpected events after creating it himself? Also imagine you create such a world in your computer, and the characters of your game start blaming you for creating such a shithole, and demand you fix it all immediately. You'd probably work overtime to succumb to their demands, right?
View attachment 1486948

Humans would create failure but god wouldent. If human created a game and in game people were sentient obviously they would blame the progammer because it was his fault

 

[BigBiceps]

Humans would create failure but god wouldent. If human created a game and in game people were sentient obviously they would blame the progammer because it was his fault

Why do you imagine you deserve him to honor you with salvation, when you don't honor him at all?

 

[hebbewem]

Why do you imagine you deserve him to honor you with salvation, when you don't honor him at all?

I dont belive him. But even if he did he created me and know everything that i would do

 

[Gonthar]

I'm a christian