How can free will exist?

[MYLIFE]

Everything that is random is just too complex to predict based on our available knowledge. When you flip a coin it is not random because it can be predicted if you know everything about that coin such as the weight, force applied, wind and millions of more factors. You can apply this same principle to anything. The weather used to be random until we were able to develop the technology to predict it. Everything you have ever done in your life could be predicted given a certain amount of data. So with that logic if every action you will ever do can be predicted then your whole life can. This means that you have never made a choice that hasn't already been made by a combination of many factors and you never will. Humans don’t have free will because we are just constructs of biology and sociology that can be predicted if given enough information. Regardless of this amount of information ever being possible to collect and calculate it is out there and the fact that it can be means that you are predictable.

 

[BeanCelll]

It doesn't

 

[MYLIFE]

It doesn't

Do you believe it for the same reason or for another?

 

[caleb555]

Yea

 

[savage21]

Everything that is random is just too complex to predict based on our available knowledge. When you flip a coin it is not random because it can be predicted if you know everything about that coin such as the weight, force applied, wind and millions of more factors. You can apply this same principle to anything. The weather used to be random until we were able to develop the technology to predict it. Everything you have ever done in your life could be predicted given a certain amount of data. So with that logic if every action you will ever do can be predicted then your whole life can. This means that you have never made a choice that hasn't already been made by a combination of many factors and you never will. Humans don’t have free will because we are just constructs of biology and sociology that can be predicted if given enough information. Regardless of this amount of information ever being possible to collect and calculate it is out there and the fact that it can be means that you are predictable.

Agree with some of this but, predictability isn’t equivalent to determining what will happen. You cannot predict everything even if the universe is deterministic. Which we don’t know for sure if it is. For me it’s a toss up tbh

 

[BeanCelll]

Do you believe it for the same reason or for another?

Neuroscience like the libets experiments

The brain decides, the conscious observes.

 

[MYLIFE]

Agree with some of this but, predictability isn’t equivalent to determining what will happen. You cannot predict everything even if the universe is deterministic. Which we don’t know for sure if it is. For me it’s a toss up tbh

Everything can be theoretically determined given enough information regardless if it is possible. The fact that it can be with perfect precision argues that it must happen and your future must be pre-determined.

 

[savage21]

Everything can be theoretically determined given enough information regardless if it is possible. The fact that it can be with perfect precision argues that it must happen and your future must be pre-determined.

True, but no such being exists as far as we know that can compute this information. Which is why it’s a toss up for me. Your point of view is correct from a mathematic point of view. But from a physical standpoint it’s a toss up

 

[Imaloser7754]

Everything that is random is just too complex to predict based on our available knowledge. When you flip a coin it is not random because it can be predicted if you know everything about that coin such as the weight, force applied, wind and millions of more factors. You can apply this same principle to anything. The weather used to be random until we were able to develop the technology to predict it. Everything you have ever done in your life could be predicted given a certain amount of data. So with that logic if every action you will ever do can be predicted then your whole life can. This means that you have never made a choice that hasn't already been made by a combination of many factors and you never will. Humans don’t have free will because we are just constructs of biology and sociology that can be predicted if given enough information. Regardless of this amount of information ever being possible to collect and calculate it is out there and the fact that it can be means that you are predictable.

Free will doesn't exist. Our paths are already decided.

 

[MYLIFE]

Free will doesn't exist. Our paths are already decided.

Then does it still make sense to have feelings of shame or regret?

 

[MYLIFE]

True, but no such being exists as far as we know that can compute this information. Which is why it’s a toss up for me. Your point of view is correct from a mathematic point of view. But from a physical standpoint it’s a toss up

I hope there is never a being that could compute this information. Ignorance is the blessing that makes life enjoyable

 

[Ultimate Subhuman™]

HRBG - Non-deterministic Random Bit Generator; An RBG that always has access to an entropy source and produces output bitstrings that have full entropy. Often called a True Random Number (or Bit) Generator. No external factors to them. No deterministic algorithm. Just chance. Unpredictable.

Chance Exists

 

[MYLIFE]

HRBG - Non-deterministic Random Bit Generator; An RBG that always has access to an entropy source and produces output bitstrings that have full entropy. Often called a True Random Number (or Bit) Generator. No external factors to them. No deterministic algorithm. Just chance. Unpredictable.

Chance Exists

TRBG’s use physical processes to generate random numbers. Even with the best ones being quantum it does not prove that randomness exists. The process of generating that random number follows the laws of physics meaning it is caused and not random.

 

[theRetard]

something determined what you wrote, this thread is not your free choice so no reason to debate that bullshit

 

[yesimog420]

Free will is me jacking off in public I don’t do that I have morals

 

[Ultimate Subhuman™]

TRBG’s use physical processes to generate random numbers. Even with the best ones being quantum it does not prove that randomness exists. The process of generating that random number follows the laws of physics meaning it is caused and not random.

Yeah the physical processes being ~ thermal noise, radioactive decay, or quantum tunneling ( In Few ). All of these physical phenomena are fundamentally & intrinsically unpredictable by law. What dont you understand brah???

 

[Aox Ofwar]

Everything that is random is just too complex to predict based on our available knowledge. When you flip a coin it is not random because it can be predicted if you know everything about that coin such as the weight, force applied, wind and millions of more factors. You can apply this same principle to anything. The weather used to be random until we were able to develop the technology to predict it. Everything you have ever done in your life could be predicted given a certain amount of data. So with that logic if every action you will ever do can be predicted then your whole life can. This means that you have never made a choice that hasn't already been made by a combination of many factors and you never will. Humans don’t have free will because we are just constructs of biology and sociology that can be predicted if given enough information. Regardless of this amount of information ever being possible to collect and calculate it is out there and the fact that it can be means that you are predictable.

The universe is most likely deterministic and we don't have free will (unless you believe in religion)

 

[MYLIFE]

something determined what you wrote, this thread is not your free choice so no reason to debate that bullshit

Hey don’t shit on me i was determined to write that

 

[MYLIFE]

Free will is me jacking off in public I don’t do that I have morals

Morals crumble under this idea. There is no reason to feel shame or guilt for something you have been pre-determined to do because you have no say in it.

 

[yesimog420]

Morals crumble under this idea. There is no reason to feel shame or guilt for something you have been pre-determined to do because you have no say in it.

Pre determined as in? Your brain cause that’s your choice right

 

[MYLIFE]

Yeah the physical processes being ~ thermal noise, radioactive decay, or quantum tunneling ( In Few ). All of these physical phenomena are fundamentally & intrinsically unpredictable by law. What dont you understand brah???

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Being fundamentally predictable is irrelevant as long as it is theoretically able to be determined given every possible data needed then if i can be theoretically determined it must already be set out in the future

 

[MYLIFE]

The universe is most likely deterministic and we don't have free will (unless you believe in religion)

There is no reason a god could have not created a deterministic universe. Honestly I see the idea of a non-deterministic universe as impossible.

 

[MYLIFE]

Pre determined as in? Your brain cause that’s your choice right

Pre-determined as in each action you ever make is due to many factors. So your not making the choice its all the other factors influencing you to make the choice.

 

[Ultimate Subhuman™]

Morals crumble under this idea. There is no reason to feel shame or guilt for something you have been pre-determined to do because you have no say in it.

So hypothetically If I'm pre-determined to rape your mother, grand-mother, & your little sister you have no issue with me doing so yeah? Completely morally sound & just? I LOVE your way of thinking man!!!!

 

[yesimog420]

Pre-determined as in each action you ever make is due to many factors. So your not making the choice its all the other factors influencing you to make the choice.

True but the one who makes the choices is the same part with all past experiences your brain so you kinda do choose but I get your point and honestly I can’t argue since neither are incorrect or correct seems like a mystery

 

[Ultimate Subhuman™]

Being fundamentally predictable is irrelevant as long as it is theoretically able to be determined given every possible data needed then if i can be theoretically determined it must already be set out in the future

So you really dont understand. Just say so next time.
For phenomena like radioactive decay, quantum tunneling, or like photon path decisions in a beam splitter, there’s no variable or some kind of theoretical hidden variable we can measure to predict the exact outcome. The randomness isn’t from missing data or computational limits it’s legitimately just the laws of physics.

Determinism cant rescue you at the quantum level

 

[Aryan Incel]

 

[jbwmaxed]

Everything that is random is just too complex to predict based on our available knowledge. When you flip a coin it is not random because it can be predicted if you know everything about that coin such as the weight, force applied, wind and millions of more factors. You can apply this same principle to anything. The weather used to be random until we were able to develop the technology to predict it. Everything you have ever done in your life could be predicted given a certain amount of data. So with that logic if every action you will ever do can be predicted then your whole life can. This means that you have never made a choice that hasn't already been made by a combination of many factors and you never will. Humans don’t have free will because we are just constructs of biology and sociology that can be predicted if given enough information. Regardless of this amount of information ever being possible to collect and calculate it is out there and the fact that it can be means that you are predictable.

Schopenhauer reasoned that free will is not about whether a person acts as they wish, but rather whether they will what they want. This is the origin of the Latin concept liberum arbitrium indifferentiae, which means that a person is able to act regardless of their environment, innate nature, emotional state, and upbringing. According to Schopenhauer, liberum arbitrium indifferentiae is problematic because, under the law of causality, some factors must bring about my act of will. He argued that it is precisely innate nature, upbringing, and environment that influence the emergence of an act of will. Of course, we act as we wish, but we do not will what we wish.

 

[jbwmaxed]

Agree with some of this but, predictability isn’t equivalent to determining what will happen. You cannot predict everything even if the universe is deterministic. Which we don’t know for sure if it is. For me it’s a toss up tbh

Even though the world would be indeterministic you still wouldn't be able to rise above the random causal chain

 

[MYLIFE]

So hypothetically If I'm pre-determined to rape your mother, grand-mother, & your little sister you have no issue with me doing so yeah? Completely morally sound & just? I LOVE your way of thinking man!!!!
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What will happen will happen there is nothing you can do about it. I don’t care what happens to me and it is peaceful.

 

[MYLIFE]

So you really dont understand. Just say so next time.
For phenomena like radioactive decay, quantum tunneling, or like photon path decisions in a beam splitter, there’s no variable or some kind of theoretical hidden variable we can measure to predict the exact outcome. The randomness isn’t from missing data or computational limits it’s legitimately just the laws of physics.

Determinism cant rescue you at the quantum level

How is it the law of physics when it is still being studied? This argument is no more for determinism than it is against it. Many behaviors in physics have been equated to randomness in the past and then were found to be deterministic. Sure if it is truly random then yes determinism fails but I highly doubt that is the case. The probabilistic law is simply incomplete and quantum mechanics is unable to prove anything as there are a multitude of interpretations.

 

[Ultimate Subhuman™]

What will happen will happen there is nothing you can do about it. I don’t care what happens to me and it is peaceful.

Just the clarify once more - seriously this time. Again hypothetically; lets say I, you, & your girlfriend are in a room.
I then find that there is a some kind of force attracting me towards your girlfriend. That force being my Dick, Libido, or Virility or whatever
Are you to say your just going to let whats "determined" happen right in front of your eyes? Against the will of your girlfriend even. Brutal

 

[MYLIFE]

True but the one who makes the choices is the same part with all past experiences your brain so you kinda do choose but I get your point and honestly I can’t argue since neither are incorrect or correct seems like a mystery

The choice has already been made since the dawn of time

 

[Ultimate Subhuman™]

How is it the law of physics when it is still being studied? This argument is no more for determinism than it is against it. Many behaviors in physics have been equated to randomness in the past and then were found to be deterministic. Sure if it is truly random then yes determinism fails but I highly doubt that is the case. The probabilistic law is simply incomplete and quantum mechanics is unable to prove anything as there are a multitude of interpretations.

Yeah no, this isnt being studied anymore. Bell test experiments have proven its unpredictability they've ruled out local hidden variables.

 

[MYLIFE]

Just the clarify once more. Again hypothetically; lets say I, you, & your girlfriend are in a room.
I then find that there is a some kind of force attracting me towards your girlfriend. That force being my Dick, Libido, or Virility or whatever
Are you to say your just going to let whats "determined" happen right in front of your eyes? Against the will of your girlfriend even. Brutal

Determinism is not doing nothing and letting things happen lol. Due to a variety of factors I would do something about it but there is no reason for me to feel any way about anything it is just a natural response that works as a reward mechanism.

 

[MYLIFE]

Yeah no, this isnt being studied anymore. Bell test experiments have proven its unpredictability they've ruled out local hidden variables.

Still doesn't rule out non-local determinism or super-determinism and it is definitely still being studied lol.

 

[Ultimate Subhuman™]

Still doesn't rule out non-local determinism or super-determinism and it is definitely still being studied lol.

You can look it up your free too. I havent the slightest idea what "super-determinism" is.

 

[MYLIFE]

You can look it up your free too. I havent the slightest idea what "super-determinism" is.

You are free to look it up

 

[theRetard]

Hey don’t shit on me i was determined to write that

but if you were determined to write that, then there's no reasons to believe that it is the truth what you wrote

 

[MYLIFE]

but if you were determined to write that, then there's no reasons to believe that it is the truth what you wrote

There is nothing that proves it isn’t. Only things that are still being researched and haven’t been proven. This is due to the laws of the universe and nothing to do with my beliefs.