How features affect perceived face lenght

NegativeNorwood

NegativeNorwood

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Let's say that you have a midface ratio of 1.05, with 68 mm IPD and 65mm midface lenght. There was a measurements data base posted of male model faces here and it said that Sean O'pry had those measurements, give or take 1mm.

This is very close to ideal on paper, 65mm midface is not a short face, you even show a small amount of gum and all your teeth properly when smiling. 68 mm IPD is on the high side, but is well proportioned, which gives you that coveted compact but not stunted look many would kill for.

All of that is meaningless if the rest of your features give the illusion of a short face.

The most important are:

- Zygos: wide and low set gives you a worse ES Ratio, and as such the illusion of a short face.

- Lack of eyebrows: their main purpose is to frame the face. With thin eyebrows more of your upper third is visible, which again makes your face look wider and shorter.

- Upturned nose with a low nose bridge: low nose bridge gives a 2d illusion at the front of the medial canthus, making the face look flatter and more spread out. Upturned nose tip makes the nose shorter, making your philtrum more visible in a bad way, which also contributes to the illusion of facial shortness. The nose is the central element of the face and is of great importance for the perception of it.

- Temporalis muscle: if it is too big, it makes your head bigger, and as such you'll look wider and shorter faced. It is activated with chewing, so keep chewing gum like a retard if you want to look bad

- Temples and hairline: like the eyebrows, they frame the face. Recession means more face visible, resulting in the perception of a bigger head.

- Eyelashes: lack of eyelashes makes the eyes look smaller, affecting the perception of PFL and ES Ratio even if those do not change.

- Bloated masseters: the muscle grows, jaw doesn't (keep coping with chewing lmao, huge looksmin), and as such the jaw becomes rounder and bigger, giving again the perception of bloat and a shorter, wider face. Small masseters and gonial eversion is what you want for a top tier lower third, not big masseters.

- High body fat %: self explanatory, extra fat deposits on your face make it wider, and as such the illusion of a shorter face.

Enough theory, let's take a look at Sean O'pry:

D7af277d302bb68f40288e1f9dca0579 20231014 131544


Look at how much shorter his face looks with same midface lenght and IPD but: bigger temporalis muscle, receeded hairline, sparse and short eyebrows, wide and low set zygos and upturned nosebridge (and it could be worse, has half of the failos I mentioned earlier):

D7af277d302bb68f40288e1f9dca0579 20231014 131536 20231014 152434


Bonus pic, same morph but fat (even bigger difference):

D7af277d302bb68f40288e1f9dca0579 20231014 131536 20231014 152434


If the morph were real and posted here for a rating, he would be told that he is a short face syndrome slavic mutt that needs Lefort 2.
Couldn't be further from the truth, and to be a super male model with normal face proportions he would "just" need:

- Temporalis muscle reduction
- Hair and eyebrow transplant
- Cheekbone reduction surgery
- Augmentation rhinoplasty
- Weight loss

TL;DR: there's more to looks than bimax, Lefort 2-3 and CCW rotation. Looks are way more complex than what your peanut brain that thinks chewing is a good idea can comprehend.
 
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good thread, unfortunately i lack the attention spam to read it
 
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Let's say that you have a midface ratio of 1.05, with 68 mm IPD and 65mm midface lenght. There was a measurements data base posted of male model faces here and it said that Sean O'pry had those measurements, give or take 1mm.

This is very close to ideal on paper, 65mm midface is not a short face, you even show a small amount of gum and all your teeth properly when smiling. 68 mm IPD is on the high side, but is well proportioned, which gives you that covered compact but not stunted look many would kill for.

All of that is meaningless if the rest of your features give the illusion of a short face.

The most important are:

- Zygos: wide and low set gives you a worse ES Ratio, and as such the illusion of a short face.

- Lack of eyebrows: their main purpose is to frame the face. With thin eyebrows more of your upper third is visible, which again makes your face look wider and shorter.

- Upturned nose with a low nose bridge: low nose bridge gives a 2d illusion at the front of the medial canthus, making the face look flatter and more spread out. Upturned nose tip makes the nose shorter, making your philtrum more visible in a bad way, which also contributes to the illusion of facial shortness. The nose is the central element of the face and is of great importance for the perception of it.

- Temporalis muscle: if it is too big, it makes your head bigger, and as such you'll look wider and shorter faced. It is activated with chewing, so keep chewing gum like a retard if you want to look bad

- Temples and hairline: like the eyebrows, they frame the face. Recession means more face visible, resulting in the perception of a bigger head.

- Eyelashes: lack of eyelashes makes the eyes look smaller, affecting the perception of PFL and ES Ratio even if those do not change.

- Bloated masseters: the muscle grows, jaw doesn't (keep coping with chewing lmao, huge looksmin), and as such the jaw becomes rounder and bigger, giving again the perception of bloat and a shorter, wider face. Small masseters and gonial eversion is what you want for a top tier lower third, not big masseters.

- High body fat %: self explanatory, extra fat deposits on your face make it wider, and as such the illusion of a shorter face.

Enough theory, let's take a look at Sean O'pry:

View attachment 2490495

Look at how much shorter his face looks with same midface lenght and IPD but: bigger temporalis muscle, receeded hairline, sparse and short eyebrows, wide and low set zygos and upturned nosebridge (and it could be worse, has half of the failos I mentioned earlier):

View attachment 2490505

Bonus pic, same morph but fat (even bigger difference):

View attachment 2490506

If the morph were real and posted here for a rating, he would be told that he is a short face syndrome slavic mutt that needs Lefort 2.
Couldn't be further from the truth, and to be a super male model with normal face proportions he would "just" need:

- Temporalis muscle reduction
- Hair and eyebrow transplant
- Cheekbone reduction surgery
- Augmentation rhinoplasty
- Weight loss

TL;DR: there's more to looks than bimax, Lefort 2-3 and CCW rotation. Looks are way more complex than what your peanut brain that thinks chewing is a good idea can comprehend.
Short nose and long philtrum is a death tier combo
 
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Probably the best thread in months
 
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You missed big forehead, the ultimate killer.
 
You missed big forehead, the ultimate killer.

It is covered under hair and temple recession + too much temporalis muscle (forehead looks bigger). The lack of eyebrows is also brutal for the perception of forehead size.
 
some obscure shit most people don't know:

forward growth makes your nose appear bigger on selfies because it's closer to the camera compared to the rest of your face, the difference is an average of 30% and can go up to 50%.

deep set eyes look smaller on pictures than they are in reality because they're further from the lens than the rest of your face.

prominent brows make your forehead look big due to it being closer to the lens.

your neck is bigger in reality, your head is closer to the lens than your neck is which can make it look narrower.

the angle of your eyebrows can make them look shorter on photos, if they're upright they're basically invisible even if they're there in real life.

all issues I have with selfies.
 
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some obscure shit most people don't know:

forward growth makes your nose appear bigger on selfies because it's closer to the camera compared to the rest of your face, the difference is an average of 30% and can go up to 50%.

deep set eyes look smaller on pictures than they are in reality because they're further from the lens than the rest of your face.

prominent brows make your forehead look big due to it being closer to the lens.

your neck is bigger in reality, your head is closer to the lens than your neck is which can make it look narrower.

Indeed. Lens distortion is actually a god send for wide face cels. I look better on selfies than irl because lens distortion makes my skull look more normal sized.
 
IMG 8086
 
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Indeed. Lens distortion is actually a god send for wide face cels. I look better on selfies than irl because lens distortion makes my skull look more normal sized.
I mean you'll still look alright, it will make you look different but not always worse.

there's some tricks around it, if you take side shots or 3/4ths of your head for example your nose doesn't get distorted as much, or from a higher angle.
 
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some obscure shit most people don't know:

forward growth makes your nose appear bigger on selfies because it's closer to the camera compared to the rest of your face, the difference is an average of 30% and can go up to 50%.

deep set eyes look smaller on pictures than they are in reality because they're further from the lens than the rest of your face.

prominent brows make your forehead look big due to it being closer to the lens.

your neck is bigger in reality, your head is closer to the lens than your neck is which can make it look narrower.

the angle of your eyebrows can make them look shorter on photos, if they're upright they're basically invisible even if they're there in real life.

all issues I have with selfies.
brb taking dick pics such that my penis is closer to the camera than the rest of my body, making it look larger than 4 inches
 
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You missed big forehead, the ultimate killer.
Having a big forehead is not necessarily a killer, you just need a very good third to balance it out, jason statham is a good example,

also, having a round forehead gives the illusion of it being bigger
1697294071794
1697294224593
 
Bookmarked.
 
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Having a big forehead is not necessarily a killer, you just need a very good third to balance it out, jason statham is a good example,

also, having a round forehead gives the illusion of it being bigger
View attachment 2490564View attachment 2490574

Almost straight forehead + well projected nasion is such a mogger, aristocratic, high IQ combo. Dude on the right looks smarter and wealthier than the one on the left.
 
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Good thread, Sean's photoshopping could use some improvements.
 
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i have the low set nasal bridge upturned nose falio what can fix it
 
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good thread, unfortunately i lack the attention spam to read it
Attention spam
Let's say that you have a midface ratio of 1.05, with 68 mm IPD and 65mm midface lenght. There was a measurements data base posted of male model faces here and it said that Sean O'pry had those measurements, give or take 1mm.

This is very close to ideal on paper, 65mm midface is not a short face, you even show a small amount of gum and all your teeth properly when smiling. 68 mm IPD is on the high side, but is well proportioned, which gives you that coveted compact but not stunted look many would kill for.

All of that is meaningless if the rest of your features give the illusion of a short face.

The most important are:

- Zygos: wide and low set gives you a worse ES Ratio, and as such the illusion of a short face.

- Lack of eyebrows: their main purpose is to frame the face. With thin eyebrows more of your upper third is visible, which again makes your face look wider and shorter.

- Upturned nose with a low nose bridge: low nose bridge gives a 2d illusion at the front of the medial canthus, making the face look flatter and more spread out. Upturned nose tip makes the nose shorter, making your philtrum more visible in a bad way, which also contributes to the illusion of facial shortness. The nose is the central element of the face and is of great importance for the perception of it.

- Temporalis muscle: if it is too big, it makes your head bigger, and as such you'll look wider and shorter faced. It is activated with chewing, so keep chewing gum like a retard if you want to look bad

- Temples and hairline: like the eyebrows, they frame the face. Recession means more face visible, resulting in the perception of a bigger head.

- Eyelashes: lack of eyelashes makes the eyes look smaller, affecting the perception of PFL and ES Ratio even if those do not change.

- Bloated masseters: the muscle grows, jaw doesn't (keep coping with chewing lmao, huge looksmin), and as such the jaw becomes rounder and bigger, giving again the perception of bloat and a shorter, wider face. Small masseters and gonial eversion is what you want for a top tier lower third, not big masseters.

- High body fat %: self explanatory, extra fat deposits on your face make it wider, and as such the illusion of a shorter face.

Enough theory, let's take a look at Sean O'pry:

View attachment 2490495

Look at how much shorter his face looks with same midface lenght and IPD but: bigger temporalis muscle, receeded hairline, sparse and short eyebrows, wide and low set zygos and upturned nosebridge (and it could be worse, has half of the failos I mentioned earlier):

View attachment 2490505

Bonus pic, same morph but fat (even bigger difference):

View attachment 2490506

If the morph were real and posted here for a rating, he would be told that he is a short face syndrome slavic mutt that needs Lefort 2.
Couldn't be further from the truth, and to be a super male model with normal face proportions he would "just" need:

- Temporalis muscle reduction
- Hair and eyebrow transplant
- Cheekbone reduction surgery
- Augmentation rhinoplasty
- Weight loss

TL;DR: there's more to looks than bimax, Lefort 2-3 and CCW rotation. Looks are way more complex than what your peanut brain that thinks chewing is a good idea can comprehend.
BOTB tier thread great work op
 
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short nose that's upturned with a undefined nose bridge is my main falio, if i had it less upturned without a retracted columella my philtrum would be completely normal, instead it adds a whole 5mm of philtrum length in the middle, and it does make my face look shorter, can't WAIT to fix this shit holy fuck
 
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Your midface lenght is not necessary correlated with gums that show when you're smiling.

One of my knowledge has 7.2 midface lenght. No gums at all show when he smiles.
I have a 6.1 midface lenght and when I smile, a little more gums than him show.
 
Your midface lenght is not necessary correlated with gums that show when you're smiling.

One of my knowledge has 7.2 midface lenght. No gums at all show when he smiles.
I have a 6.1 midface lenght and when I smile, a little more gums than him show.

I know. I said it to potentiate my argument and avoid retards saying things like "probably doesn't have ideal gum and teeth display with that midface height" that would detract from the thread.
 
some obscure shit most people don't know:

forward growth makes your nose appear bigger on selfies because it's closer to the camera compared to the rest of your face, the difference is an average of 30% and can go up to 50%.

deep set eyes look smaller on pictures than they are in reality because they're further from the lens than the rest of your face.

prominent brows make your forehead look big due to it being closer to the lens.

your neck is bigger in reality, your head is closer to the lens than your neck is which can make it look narrower.

the angle of your eyebrows can make them look shorter on photos, if they're upright they're basically invisible even if they're there in real life.

all issues I have with selfies.
god tier post
 
Let's say that you have a midface ratio of 1.05, with 68 mm IPD and 65mm midface lenght. There was a measurements data base posted of male model faces here and it said that Sean O'pry had those measurements, give or take 1mm.

This is very close to ideal on paper, 65mm midface is not a short face, you even show a small amount of gum and all your teeth properly when smiling. 68 mm IPD is on the high side, but is well proportioned, which gives you that coveted compact but not stunted look many would kill for.

All of that is meaningless if the rest of your features give the illusion of a short face.

The most important are:

- Zygos: wide and low set gives you a worse ES Ratio, and as such the illusion of a short face.

- Lack of eyebrows: their main purpose is to frame the face. With thin eyebrows more of your upper third is visible, which again makes your face look wider and shorter.

- Upturned nose with a low nose bridge: low nose bridge gives a 2d illusion at the front of the medial canthus, making the face look flatter and more spread out. Upturned nose tip makes the nose shorter, making your philtrum more visible in a bad way, which also contributes to the illusion of facial shortness. The nose is the central element of the face and is of great importance for the perception of it.

- Temporalis muscle: if it is too big, it makes your head bigger, and as such you'll look wider and shorter faced. It is activated with chewing, so keep chewing gum like a retard if you want to look bad

- Temples and hairline: like the eyebrows, they frame the face. Recession means more face visible, resulting in the perception of a bigger head.

- Eyelashes: lack of eyelashes makes the eyes look smaller, affecting the perception of PFL and ES Ratio even if those do not change.

- Bloated masseters: the muscle grows, jaw doesn't (keep coping with chewing lmao, huge looksmin), and as such the jaw becomes rounder and bigger, giving again the perception of bloat and a shorter, wider face. Small masseters and gonial eversion is what you want for a top tier lower third, not big masseters.

- High body fat %: self explanatory, extra fat deposits on your face make it wider, and as such the illusion of a shorter face.

Enough theory, let's take a look at Sean O'pry:

View attachment 2490495

Look at how much shorter his face looks with same midface lenght and IPD but: bigger temporalis muscle, receeded hairline, sparse and short eyebrows, wide and low set zygos and upturned nosebridge (and it could be worse, has half of the failos I mentioned earlier):

View attachment 2490505

Bonus pic, same morph but fat (even bigger difference):

View attachment 2490506

If the morph were real and posted here for a rating, he would be told that he is a short face syndrome slavic mutt that needs Lefort 2.
Couldn't be further from the truth, and to be a super male model with normal face proportions he would "just" need:

- Temporalis muscle reduction
- Hair and eyebrow transplant
- Cheekbone reduction surgery
- Augmentation rhinoplasty
- Weight loss

TL;DR: there's more to looks than bimax, Lefort 2-3 and CCW rotation. Looks are way more complex than what your peanut brain that thinks chewing is a good idea can comprehend.
this is so fucken true . especially the bit about temple points. The better your temple points and narrower your forehead the taller your face looks
 
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Bloated masseters: the muscle grows, jaw doesn't (keep coping with chewing lmao, huge looksmin), and as such the jaw becomes rounder and bigger, giving again the perception of bloat and a shorter, wider face. Small masseters and gonial eversion is what you want for a top tier lower third, not big masseters.
how you know?
 
High body fat %: self explanatory, extra fat deposits on your face make it wider, and as such the illusion of a shorter face.
can you pls tell me how to know which fat% I'm at and how much kilos should i lose to have hollow cheeks?

I have a defined face and i look better than 85% of Indians(High tier MTN) and i also get compliments and approaches by women.
 
You can still be good looking with it but not ideal for PSL
It doesn't break my looks but it adds UP with all the other weird shit i have
 
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hair can also affect perceived face length. good thread
 
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Mike Gioia edited with smaller masseters and a taller, wider chin + thicker neck:

Screenshot 2023 10 31 00 07 33 93 680d03679600f7af0b4c700c6b270fe72 20231031 001506
Screenshot 2023 10 31 00 07 33 93 680d03679600f7af0b4c700c6b270fe72 20231031 001431


Him again, with smaller masseters, taller, wider chin and temporalis muscle reduction + head bump shaved. Neck slightly thicker too:

Screenshot 2023 10 01 16 10 45 46 e2d5b3f32b79de1d45acd1fad96fbb0f2 20231031 003811
Image 20231031 003603


Tremendous difference in perceived face lenght, even if the midface and zygos remain unchanged.
Another bonus is the increased masculinity of the face once the temporalis and masseters are reduced, it makes a large difference even on a textbook chad like Mike Gioia:

Screenshot 2023 10 31 00 50 54 39 1c337646f29875672b5a61192b9010f92


TL;DR: flush down the toilet your jawliner, mastic gum, dildo or whatever you chew to make "jaw gains" and get surgery.
 
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