How much do you believe in Free will vs Determinism?

[Dr. Mog]

The man on the left believes it’s all free will. Once you are born you and your thoughts decide where you want to go in life.

The man on the right believes it’s all predetermined. Once you are born, everything that you are supposed to do or become is already set by your genetics, parents and environment and you are only allowed to live the life that’s already been written.

To make it more interesting I’ve set up a poll…

Tags:-
@mcmentalonthemic @Mogs Me @HXTRED999 @registerfasterusing @Foreverbrad

 

[Anakin_10k]

its all free will

 

[armemann]

Im a materialist, hard determinist

 

[lnceIs]

Why no 0% free will option?

 

[im.dark.wrld]

50 50 is the best option always

 

[Andremln]

0% free will

 

[Antonlord7]

Don't disrespect greeks with slave jew David goggins

Greeks where so ahead even of our time

 

[Dr. Mog]

Why no 0% free will option?

Because 0% free will is retarded. Any animal born is born with atleast a certain degree of free will nobody can take away unless it’s caged for life.

 

[lnceIs]

Because 0% free will is retarded. Any animal born is born with atleast a certain degree of free will nobody can take away unless it’s caged for life.

False

It's 100% predetermined.

 

[Dr. Mog]

Im a materialist, hard determinist

What’s the correlation between materialism (cars, watches, gold chains) and the theory of determinism?

 

[81xa]

Any other answer than 20% is retarded
We have a system set up by those in power to sweep us into certain paths in life, its hard to stray off that path with just will

 

[armemann]

What’s the correlation between materialism (cars, watches, gold chains) and the theory of determinism?

You have a wrong understanding of materialism

Materialism (in philosophy often called physicalism) is the view that everything that exists is ultimately physical—matter, energy, and the laws governing them. Mental states, consciousness, decisions—all of that is, under materialism, reducible to physical processes in the brain.

Determinism is a claim about how events unfold: given a complete state of the universe at time t plus the laws of nature, only one future is possible.

• Brain states are physical states
• Decisions are brain processes
• Therefore, decisions follow physical laws

If materialism is true, determinism is probably true.

Even though quantum indeterminism could make everything random, but also not free

 

[ivan.kuk]

Because 0% free will is retarded. Any animal born is born with atleast a certain degree of free will nobody can take away unless it’s caged for life.

i dont think you know what determinism means

 

[ivan.kuk]

itt totally misunderstood what determinism is by 15 year olds

 

[mcmentalonthemic]

I can't vote because im not knowledgeable enough on the subject

 

[HardStuckLTN;]

your iq, looks, personality, which country you're born in and your social status are mostly determined when you're conceived, therefore most of your life experiences are predetermined

 

[lnceIs]

Any other answer than 20% is retarded
We have a system set up by those in power to sweep us into certain paths in life, its hard to stray off that path with just will

You guys are so retarded

Everything is predetermined

All your decisions are a result of how your genetics unfolded in your environment. You cannot will what you will.

 

[81xa]

You guys are so retarded

Everything is predetermined

All your decisions are a result of how your genetics unfolded in your environment. You cannot will what you will.

Retard retard retard...
You can start a business and go from moneycel to moneymogger through free will
Where are the genetics involved there?

 

[lnceIs]

Retard retard retard...
You can start a business and go from moneycel to moneymogger through free will
Where are the genetics involved there?

What does this have to do with free will??

Your decision to start a business is entirely a result of your brain signals. The structure of your neural pathways is genetic, and they are activated by environmental inputs.

You did not choose your dopamine sensitivity, your risk tolerance, or the cognitive hardware required to scale a company. Your brain simply processed the data and produced the only possible output.

There is no "you" making decision.

 

[psltristan1]

Everything is predetermined from birth

Life is a lottery

 

[TrueCurryCel13]

I was born a curry and it never began

 

[81xa]

What does this have to do with free will??

Your decision to start a business is entirely a result of your brain signals. The structure of your neural pathways is genetic, and they are activated by environmental inputs.

You did not choose your dopamine sensitivity, your risk tolerance, or the cognitive hardware required to scale a company. Your brain simply processed the data and produced the only possible output.

There is no "you" making decision.

You can fix your dopamine sensitivity through free will by training and using your willpower.

Iq is mainly genetic however through effort and free will you can make a huge difference, you can study your way from 100iq to 120iq. Genetics do not determine your every action.

You say that its activated through environmental inputs yet you could have a natural born genius who was surrounded by retards all his life, and someone of average iq who was raised well would achieve far more.

Youre understating the influence of environmental factors.

 

[lnceIs]

You can fix your dopamine sensitivity through free will by training and using your willpower.

Iq is mainly genetic however through effort and free will you can make a huge difference, you can study your way from 100iq to 120iq. Genetics do not determine your every action.

You say that its activated through environmental inputs yet you could have a natural born genius who was surrounded by retards all his life, and someone of average iq who was raised well would achieve far more.

Youre understating the influence of environmental factors.

Some individuals are just immune to learning @imontheloose

 

[81xa]

Some individuals are just immune to learning @imontheloose

Instant adhominem
Thanks for conceding

 

[lnceIs]

Instant adhominem
Thanks for conceding

Brandolini's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You keep repeating your points and don't even understand what I'm saying jfl

 

[81xa]

Brandolini's law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So youre basically saying its too much of an effort to refute my argument because its too complicated for you

 

[lnceIs]

So youre basically saying its too much of an effort to refute my argument because its too complicated for you

I already refuted your argument.

You then just rephrased the same dumbfuck talking point.

Then I made fun of you, without representing it as an argument, that's not ad hominem.

 

[81xa]

I already refuted your argument.

You then just rephrased the same dumbfuck talking point.

Then I made fun of you, without representing it as an argument, that's not ad hominem.

If that's honestly how you interpreted it then theres no point in arguing with someone of your level of retardation

 

[lnceIs]

If that's honestly how you interpreted it then theres no point in arguing with someone of your level of retardation

You didn't even reply to my points, you just picked the term dopamine sensitivity and claimed you can fix it by using free will. It's clear you don't even know what the terms mean.

 

[lnceIs]

You can fix your dopamine sensitivity through free will by training and using your willpower.

Where does the decision to fix your dopamine sensitivity come from? It's just a signal in your brain, which is entirely designed by your genetics and your environment. There are no factors that influence a single molecule in your brain that are not genetic or environmental, both of which are entirely predetermined.

The same applies to the decision to change your environment.

What is there not to understand?

Iq is mainly genetic however through effort and free will you can make a huge difference, you can study your way from 100iq to 120iq. Genetics do not determine your every action.

You can't increase your IQ by 20 points, jfl. But then again, I never said it's literally all genetics, I said it's predetermined.

Genetics and environment are out of your control. See my talking point above as to why "training" doesn't mean you are using free will.

You say that its activated through environmental inputs yet you could have a natural born genius who was surrounded by retards all his life, and someone of average iq who was raised well would achieve far more.

Youre understating the influence of environmental factors.

So you agree with me? You don't even understand the terms correctly, yet you're calling me a retard.

 

[lnceIs]

You can fix your dopamine sensitivity through free will by training and using your willpower.

Iq is mainly genetic however through effort and free will you can make a huge difference, you can study your way from 100iq to 120iq. Genetics do not determine your every action.

You say that its activated through environmental inputs yet you could have a natural born genius who was surrounded by retards all his life, and someone of average iq who was raised well would achieve far more.

Youre understating the influence of environmental factors.

Your core argument is essentially sneakily claiming free will as a cause, thus presenting it as an argument against determinism.
Willpower, training etc. is nothing but a neural output, not an uncaused initiator. Everything has a cause.

What generates the decision to "use willpower"? It's just your hormones, nutrition, sleep etc. (environment) influencing your brain.(developed according to genetic blueprint, depending on childhood experiences, nutrition, sleep etc.)

The person who fixes their dopamine sensitivity was always going to, because their neurology and circumstances made it inevitable.

Who studies a lot? Someone with a stable environment, low trauma and caring parents, you even admitted to this earlier. None of this disproves determinism.

Your argument actually supports my deterministic view.

Neither person chose their environment or IQ. One underperforms, one overachieves, both as the direct result of unchosen inputs. You just demonstrated determinism while trying to refute it.

Emphasizing environment more doesn't proof free will. It just moves the deterministic cause from inside the skull to outside it. You didn't choose your country, your parents, the books that reached you, or the teacher who changed you. Every time you say "through effort" or "you can", you're assuming someone or something who stands outside the causal chain and initiates action.

 

[lnceIs]

Now I'd like to see a detailed reply addressing each of my talking points with coherent counterarguments.

 

[femoidannihilator]

View attachment 4947532

The man on the left believes it’s all free will. Once you are born you and your thoughts decide where you want to go in life.

The man on the right believes it’s all predetermined. Once you are born, everything that you are supposed to do or become is already set by your genetics, parents and environment and you are only allowed to live the life that’s already been written.

To make it more interesting I’ve set up a poll…

Tags:-
@mcmentalonthemic @Mogs Me @HXTRED999 @registerfasterusing @Foreverbrad

its mainly luck but free will may decide your life a little as well

 

[xXXxZeusxXXx]

its mainly luck but free will may decide your life a little as well

a little?

 

[femoidannihilator]

a little?

yea just a little, 10% is free will and the rest is luck id say

 

[xXXxZeusxXXx]

yea just a little, 10% is free will and the rest is luck id say

jfl 10% rip, enlighten me high iq user

 

[81xa]

Now I'd like to see a detailed reply addressing each of my talking points with coherent counterarguments.

Determinism being true doesn't eliminate the meaningful distinction between a person who deliberates and acts vs one who's coerced or impulsive. That distinction is free will in any practical sense

 

[TheBWCKing]

I lean strongly toward determinism. I’d probably choose something like 1–20% free will.

Most of our actions seem to come from causes we don’t control. Our biology, environment, and past experiences, even things like posting on forums or going to the gym can be explained by underlying drives, like social connection, curiosity, or evolutionary pressures.

That said, I understand why people argue for some level of free will, since we still feel like we are making choices.

 

[lnceIs]

Determinism being true

Thank you for conceding.

Determinism being true doesn't eliminate the meaningful distinction between a person who deliberates and acts vs one who's coerced or impulsive. That distinction is free will in any practical sense

Did you use AI for this? This doesn't even make sense? When was this discussion about a person who deliberates vs. one who is impulsive?

The deliberating person's character was predetermined by genetics and environment and vice versa.

If that's how you define free will then yeah I guess that would be compatible with determinism, but that was not what the original discussion was about. It clearly presented determinism and free will as not compatible, opposing factors.

My claims made my position very clear as well.

 

[Cherkez]

Why no 0% free will option?

because he doesn't believe in an age of consent

 

[81xa]

Thank you for conceding.


Did you use AI for this? This doesn't even make sense? When was this discussion about a person who deliberates vs. one who is impulsive?

The deliberating person's character was predetermined by genetics and environment and vice versa.

If that's how you define free will then yeah I guess that would be compatible with determinism, but that was not what the original discussion was about. It clearly presented determinism and free will as not compatible, opposing factors.

My claims made my position very clear as well.

ok look

even if everything is pre determined you still can't predict what I'm going to do next, nothing can

so from the experience of being alive, determinism changes fuck and all we have to act as if we have agency because there's literally no other way to act, calling it predetermined is just a label you put on after the fact

 

[qwertyqwerty]

The thing you call “you” does not control anything it is created by your body.

 

[Dr. Mog]

You have a wrong understanding of materialism

Materialism (in philosophy often called physicalism) is the view that everything that exists is ultimately physical—matter, energy, and the laws governing them. Mental states, consciousness, decisions—all of that is, under materialism, reducible to physical processes in the brain.

Determinism is a claim about how events unfold: given a complete state of the universe at time t plus the laws of nature, only one future is possible.

• Brain states are physical states
• Decisions are brain processes
• Therefore, decisions follow physical laws

If materialism is true, determinism is probably true.

Even though quantum indeterminism could make everything random, but also not free

Your chatGPT is micro analysing the subject. My take was more on the superficial thing, just like how @81xa put an example above of a businessman becoming a moneymogger. I’ll tell you what; more than 2/3rds of the richest people I know irl started lower middle class or poor with a bad environment, parents and sometimes even looks. Yet somehow they excelled further and have reached great heights.

Also…
I’ve read the replies above and sure @incels argument just tells your genetics and environment are everything when you zoom really in to the picture, you have given set of brain and neuro chemicals due to genetics which you can’t change and you are in an environment where other people have given set of brain and neuro chemicals that somehow affect and change yours making everything predetermined from that point of view.

But based on the question I’ve just asked I have to slightly lean towards the answer of @81xa

On a very superficial aspect, free will to do what you want does exist. My personal vote in the poll goes to 50/50. I made a thread a while ago, two wealthy identical twins were born with a silver spoon in my city. Both grew up eating the same diet, playing with the same friends, same school and environment. But today once they turned adults the younger identical twin looks nothing similar to the older one other than the height.
The younger one has a Hollywood jacked physique, didn’t get into any substance abuse as far as I know, runs his dad’s real estate empire like a king, about to marry a Stacy soon. While the older identical twin? Well he has an alcohol puffy face. His wife left him a year ago. He’s never seen inside of a gym, he’s chubby and was a college dropout whereas the younger one has two college degrees from prestigious universities and is set for life.

This example is something I thought would fit right in here as to prove the point, free will, upto some extent does exist. Both had the same genetics and environment but one of them didn’t make all the right decisions in his life.

@lnceIs (seems like I tagged you wrong. Your first alphabet is an L JFL.)

 

[armemann]

Your chatGPT is micro analysing the subject. My take was more on the superficial thing, just like how @81xa put an example above of a businessman becoming a moneymogger. I’ll tell you what; more than 2/3rds of the richest people I know irl started lower middle class or poor with a bad environment, parents and sometimes even looks. Yet somehow they excelled further and have reached great heights.

Also…
I’ve read the replies above and sure @incels argument just tells your genetics and environment are everything when you zoom really in to the picture, you have given set of brain and neuro chemicals due to genetics which you can’t change and you are in an environment where other people have given set of brain and neuro chemicals that somehow affect and change yours making everything predetermined from that point of view.

But based on the question I’ve just asked I have to slightly lean towards the answer of @81xa

On a very superficial aspect, free will to do what you want does exist. My personal vote in the poll goes to 50/50. I made a thread a while ago, two wealthy identical twins were born with a silver spoon in my city. Both grew up eating the same diet, playing with the same friends, same school and environment. But today once they turned adults the younger identical twin looks nothing similar to the older one other than the height.
The younger one has a Hollywood jacked physique, didn’t get into any substance abuse as far as I know, runs his dad’s real estate empire like a king, about to marry a Stacy soon. While the older identical twin? Well he has an alcohol puffy face. His wife left him a year ago. He’s never seen inside of a gym, he’s chubby and was a college dropout whereas the younger one has two college degrees from prestigious universities and is set for life.

This example is something I thought would fit right in here as to prove the point, free will, upto some extent does exist. Both had the same genetics and environment but one of them didn’t make all the right decisions in his life.

@lnceIs (seems like I tagged you wrong. Your first alphabet is an L JFL.)

Yeah but hard determinism/ quantum indeterminism doesnt work that way

Its not about more or less similar circumstamces, u would have to have exactly the same ones…
A copy of the world down to the quantum fluctuations
Siblings are the biggest cope argument against determinism

Hard determisism zooms in to an atomic level and you cant just compare siblings which should be same because of the same genetics

Google hard determinism and try to understand it

Also broke people that got rich bc of their mindset countrrproves nothing…

It was just meant to happen like this or came into place randomly (determinism/ quantum indeterminism) there is no other way, our reality just works like that, if u believe in physics

Every atom and its contituents in your brain make up your conciousness

Therefore free will is debunked

Because atoms follow physical laws that cant be changed, sp the path of how the universe will go was predetermined

 

[81xa]

Your chatGPT is micro analysing the subject. My take was more on the superficial thing, just like how @81xa put an example above of a businessman becoming a moneymogger. I’ll tell you what; more than 2/3rds of the richest people I know irl started lower middle class or poor with a bad environment, parents and sometimes even looks. Yet somehow they excelled further and have reached great heights.

Also…
I’ve read the replies above and sure @incels argument just tells your genetics and environment are everything when you zoom really in to the picture, you have given set of brain and neuro chemicals due to genetics which you can’t change and you are in an environment where other people have given set of brain and neuro chemicals that somehow affect and change yours making everything predetermined from that point of view.

But based on the question I’ve just asked I have to slightly lean towards the answer of @81xa

On a very superficial aspect, free will to do what you want does exist. My personal vote in the poll goes to 50/50. I made a thread a while ago, two wealthy identical twins were born with a silver spoon in my city. Both grew up eating the same diet, playing with the same friends, same school and environment. But today once they turned adults the younger identical twin looks nothing similar to the older one other than the height.
The younger one has a Hollywood jacked physique, didn’t get into any substance abuse as far as I know, runs his dad’s real estate empire like a king, about to marry a Stacy soon. While the older identical twin? Well he has an alcohol puffy face. His wife left him a year ago. He’s never seen inside of a gym, he’s chubby and was a college dropout whereas the younger one has two college degrees from prestigious universities and is set for life.

This example is something I thought would fit right in here as to prove the point, free will, upto some extent does exist. Both had the same genetics and environment but one of them didn’t make all the right decisions in his life.

@lnceIs (seems like I tagged you wrong. Your first alphabet is an L JFL.)

Well said bro

 

[imontheloose]

Some individuals are just immune to learning @imontheloose

OP cannot understand statistics if he thinks you can go from 100IQ to 120IQ. That’s nearly 2SD. Realistically he’s just asked whichever Indian LLM is most popular, hence the ridiculous answer.

IQ in its true definition is to measure your neurobiological limit to absorb knowledge, you thus cannot change it. Because of the nature of exams, it cannot be measured properly.

 

[81xa]

OP cannot understand statistics if he thinks you can go from 100IQ to 120IQ. That’s nearly 2SD. Realistically he’s just asked whichever Indian LLM is most popular, hence the ridiculous answer.

IQ in its true definition is to measure your neurobiological limit to absorb knowledge, you thus cannot change it. Because of the nature of exams, it cannot be measured properly.

even if 20 iq increase is an overestimation your overconfidence is funny

because iq doesn't just measure a neurobiological limit, because it measures working memory, processing speed, verbal reasoning and pattern recognition which are also affected by environment due to nutrition and sleep development etc

also you said iq tests are bs but they're properly validated psychometrically and ur argument is grounded in cultural bias not that the method of measurement is bad in any way

 

[lnceIs]

OP cannot understand statistics if he thinks you can go from 100IQ to 120IQ. That’s nearly 2SD. Realistically he’s just asked whichever Indian LLM is most popular, hence the ridiculous answer.

IQ in its true definition is to measure your neurobiological limit to absorb knowledge, you thus cannot change it. Because of the nature of exams, it cannot be measured properly.

Lmao he just did it again. "Muhh culturally biased"

 

[imontheloose]

Lmao he just did it again. "Muhh culturally biased"

ein narr bleibt ein narr

 

[lnceIs]

ein narr bleibt ein narr

Mog.

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