How much do you believe in Free will vs Determinism?

[imontheloose]

Mog.

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I have been learning German since September. We can optionally learn a language alongside our course. I’m B1

 

[joaotorri]

Your chatGPT is micro analysing the subject. My take was more on the superficial thing, just like how @81xa put an example above of a businessman becoming a moneymogger. I’ll tell you what; more than 2/3rds of the richest people I know irl started lower middle class or poor with a bad environment, parents and sometimes even looks. Yet somehow they excelled further and have reached great heights.

Also…
I’ve read the replies above and sure @incels argument just tells your genetics and environment are everything when you zoom really in to the picture, you have given set of brain and neuro chemicals due to genetics which you can’t change and you are in an environment where other people have given set of brain and neuro chemicals that somehow affect and change yours making everything predetermined from that point of view.

But based on the question I’ve just asked I have to slightly lean towards the answer of @81xa

On a very superficial aspect, free will to do what you want does exist. My personal vote in the poll goes to 50/50. I made a thread a while ago, two wealthy identical twins were born with a silver spoon in my city. Both grew up eating the same diet, playing with the same friends, same school and environment. But today once they turned adults the younger identical twin looks nothing similar to the older one other than the height.
The younger one has a Hollywood jacked physique, didn’t get into any substance abuse as far as I know, runs his dad’s real estate empire like a king, about to marry a Stacy soon. While the older identical twin? Well he has an alcohol puffy face. His wife left him a year ago. He’s never seen inside of a gym, he’s chubby and was a college dropout whereas the younger one has two college degrees from prestigious universities and is set for life.

This example is something I thought would fit right in here as to prove the point, free will, upto some extent does exist. Both had the same genetics and environment but one of them didn’t make all the right decisions in his life.

@lnceIs (seems like I tagged you wrong. Your first alphabet is an L JFL.)

That only counts people that you know, but doesn't matter too much. Coming from a lowmid/poor social class makes you more motivated to get your family out of the slums, it's a common sentiment, but what separates the ones who actually overcome that and ascend social classes and the ones who stay/get lower? Also, midclass/midhighclass niggas don't have enough reason too grind that hard, since they are on the "confortable enough for subsistence, but not enough for a lavish lifestyle for some hours" money.

 

[Neurotypical ghost]

I study psychology and sociology so I can tell you 10% of our life's is free will at most

 

[algoamk]

Free will is complete cope, we are all part of universe, we have as much free will as a rock following a trajectory. Every "decision" you make is the output of current state of the universe. We just experience "decision making" but actually our end decisions were deterministic all along.

 

[hellenic_shovinist]

100% Free Will and Simple Predestination

 

[armemann]

Free will is complete cope, we are all part of universe, we have as much free will as a rock following a trajectory. Every "decision" you make is the output of current state of the universe. We just experience "decision making" but actually our end decisions were deterministic all along.

Finally someone understood it
Free will is probably the biggest cope out there

If u understand physics just a bit you will soon come to that conclusion

 

[armemann]

100% Free Will and Simple Predestination

Holy cope

 

[hellenic_shovinist]

Holy cope

I believe in God, why should i believe in Determinism lol

So if u r sub5 u can‘t do shit abt it and who tf determines what happens

 

[armemann]

I believe in God, why should i believe in Determinism lol

So if u r sub5 u can‘t do shit abt it and who tf determines what happens

Yea if u believe in god in a typical biblical sense its over anyway

Theres levels to the cope

 

[hellenic_shovinist]

Yea if u believe in god in a typical biblical sense its over anyway

Theres levels to the cope

Since u have the burden of proof now, please go on and prove how it‘s overJFL

 

[armemann]

Since u have the burden of proof now, please go on and prove how it‘s overJFL

are u serious

this is the easiest shit ever

god is just a made up cope concept without ANY PROOF EVER of something like it existing
my proof is that there is ZERO EVIDENCE for god

 

[hellenic_shovinist]

are u serious

this is the easiest shit ever

god is just a made up cope concept without ANY PROOF EVER of something like it existing
my proof is that there is ZERO EVIDENCE for god

The forum incel doesn‘t acknowledge millenias of philosophy and their contributors! FUCK WHAT SHOULD I DO

 

[Prøphet]

How can a human being create their own chain of causality out of thin air? The only one who ever started a chain of causality (time) was God because he was outside of the material instead of trapped within it. Everything has already been predetermined and your “choices” and “actions” always result from a cause you didn’t choose

 

[Prøphet]

I believe in God, why should i believe in Determinism lol

So if u r sub5 u can‘t do shit abt it and who tf determines what happens

But that’s not what determinism is

Determinism just says if you’re sub5 and you choose to ldar then that was always bound to happen under your circumstances, your choice to ldar isn’t created by you but is caused by your mental state, environment, neurochemistry, etc

If you do choose to do something about it then that also was bound to happen because of the circumstances that caused that choice

 

[hellenic_shovinist]

How can a human being create their own chain of causality out of thin air? The only one who ever started a chain of causality (time) was God because he was outside of the material instead of trapped within it. Everything has already been predetermined and your “choices” and “actions” always result from a cause you didn’t choose

That doesn‘t even follow lol

Why should act and potency necessarily collapse into determinism

 

[hellenic_shovinist]

But that’s not what determinism is

Determinism just says if you’re sub5 and you choose to ldar then that was always bound to happen under your circumstances, your choice to ldar isn’t created by you but is caused by your mental state, environment, neurochemistry, etc

If you do choose to do something about it then that also was bound to happen because of the circumstances that caused that choice

Just as I said „You“ can‘t „do“ shit abt it, because it‘s not really „you“ who decides what you do rather it‘s already determined

 

[Prøphet]

That doesn‘t even follow lol

Why should act and potency necessarily collapse into determinism

Potency only becomes act because of something

If you’re able to choose many things and then you choose one out of many then the reason you did that could be your preferences which were ingrained in you over the years for example

 

[nathan V]

100 percent free will

 

[hellenic_shovinist]

Potency only becomes act because of something

If you’re able to choose many things and then you choose one out of many then the reason you did that could be your preferences which were ingrained in you over the years for example

But how is that determinism, that doesn‘t prove either

 

[Prøphet]

But how is that determinism, that doesn‘t prove either

Do you think a human can create their own cause for an action that isn’t influenced by any external cause?

 

[hellenic_shovinist]

Do you think a human can create their own cause for an action that isn’t influenced by any external cause?

I believe a human can create their own cause for an action based on external shaping of thought, morality etc., which coudl‘ve been different.

 

[Prøphet]

I believe a human can create their own cause for an action based on external shaping of thought, morality etc., which coudl‘ve been different.

Yeah it could’ve been different but it never is unless you changed something specifically

 

[hellenic_shovinist]

Yeah it could’ve been different but it never is unless you changed something specifically

Well ofc it isn‘t different because actuality already occured. A 2 month old baby who randomly decides to grab the mothers breast to signalize hunger isn‘t externally encouraged to do that so it‘d be free will or extreme determinism which you‘d have to prove I believe

 

[Grievous]

I cant see an argument for us having any free will

 

[Tool]

Free will? There's genetics and then there's LUCK. Those two work in tandem to create the illusion of free will.
The right moment at the right time can flip your life from depressed awkward basement incel to successful moneymaking surgerymaxxer slayer, either through a sudden business opportunity that snowballs your life or your own business taking off and scaling etc..
There's genetically disadvantaged people who got lucky and are living a low cortisol life.
@mcmentalonthemic

 

[mcmentalonthemic]

Free will? There's genetics and then there's LUCK. Those two work in tandem to create the illusion of free will.
The right moment at the right time can flip your life from depressed awkward basement incel to successful moneymaking surgerymaxxer slayer, either through a sudden business opportunity that snowballs your life or your own business taking off and scaling etc..
There's genetically disadvantaged people who got lucky and are living a low cortisol life.
@mcmentalonthemic

 

[Deleted member 390835]

free will isn't as relevant anymore due to our israel owned economy. Only 50% of adults in gen y and z are richer than their parents compared to 75% for gen x.

 

[Meteor21]

I'm not sure if I believe in determinism at all, it might just be an illusion. Determinism might just be it being harder to stray from habits that are constantly reinforced over decades, it's harder to change but you still can.