Jonas2k7
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How to permanently stay chiseled – A deep dive into Epleronone and Furosemide
The truth about debloating
Part 4
Introduction
The prerequisite to this thread is being at a low bf%, optimally around around 8-12%. If you aren’t lean, what the fuck are you doing?
Be aware that during development cutting too hard will be contraproductive. Only proceed with this thread if you are aware of that.
Debloating is one of the best techniques to drastically improve your looks, you’ll look as lean as you really are.
This thread will cover real methods to stay chiseled.
Be aware that during development cutting too hard will be contraproductive. Only proceed with this thread if you are aware of that.
Debloating is one of the best techniques to drastically improve your looks, you’ll look as lean as you really are.
This thread will cover real methods to stay chiseled.
Common misinformations about debloating
There is a lot of BS out there when it comes to debloating, be it drinking more water to flush out the extra sodium.
Keep in mind debloating is temporary, partially. You should never drain your body of water and electrolytes for extended periods.
Prolonged dehydration is linked to health complications like chronic kidney disease.[1]
Keep in mind debloating is temporary, partially. You should never drain your body of water and electrolytes for extended periods.
Prolonged dehydration is linked to health complications like chronic kidney disease.[1]
What causes bloating?
The mineralocorticoid receptor (MR) is the primary mediator of the fluid, electrolyte and hemodynamic homeostasis of the body. It is part of the RAAS.
We can directly modify the body's fluid homeostasis by influencing the ligands of the MR.
The primary endogenous agonist of the MR is aldosterone. Progesterone and cortisol both bind to the MR with similar affinity, though they appear to have low agonistic activity. This could be because progesterone is converted into inactive compounds[2] and cortisol is deactivated by renal cells expressing 11β-HSD2, which converts it into cortisone.[3]
Steroid users experience bloating primarily because of increased renin and angiotensin II levels, both of which are part of the RAAS, leading to an increase in aldosterone. High E2 levels also cause bloating, as estradiol increases angiotensinogen.[4]
Insulin also causes bloating by activating the RAAS and reducing ANP.[5]
There are plenty of other compounds that cause bloating including minoxidil. Fortunately, there is a solution to all of this.
We can directly modify the body's fluid homeostasis by influencing the ligands of the MR.
The primary endogenous agonist of the MR is aldosterone. Progesterone and cortisol both bind to the MR with similar affinity, though they appear to have low agonistic activity. This could be because progesterone is converted into inactive compounds[2] and cortisol is deactivated by renal cells expressing 11β-HSD2, which converts it into cortisone.[3]
Steroid users experience bloating primarily because of increased renin and angiotensin II levels, both of which are part of the RAAS, leading to an increase in aldosterone. High E2 levels also cause bloating, as estradiol increases angiotensinogen.[4]
Insulin also causes bloating by activating the RAAS and reducing ANP.[5]
There are plenty of other compounds that cause bloating including minoxidil. Fortunately, there is a solution to all of this.
How to permanently debloat
The great thing about modifying the MR pathway directly is that it is the holy grail for negating bloating from most of the compounds you use in your Looksmaxxing journey.
There are several MR antagonists like Eplerenone, Spironolactone and Finerenone. They all vary in parameters like selectivity and effectiveness.
Spironolactone is one of the least selective MR antagonists, meaning it has a non-negligible binding affinity to other receptors like the AR, PR and ER, making it one of the worst options.[6]
In fact, Spironolactone could be compared to anti-androgen treatment with cyproterone acetate.[7]
Eplerenone on the other hand was structurally derived from Spironolactone. It has a slightly weaker binding affinity to the MR but is more selective with only minimal binding affinity to other receptors, making it the best choice.[8]
Other MR antagonists like Finerenone are worth considering, but the best option would be to just stick with Eplerenone.
There are several MR antagonists like Eplerenone, Spironolactone and Finerenone. They all vary in parameters like selectivity and effectiveness.
Spironolactone is one of the least selective MR antagonists, meaning it has a non-negligible binding affinity to other receptors like the AR, PR and ER, making it one of the worst options.[6]
In fact, Spironolactone could be compared to anti-androgen treatment with cyproterone acetate.[7]
Eplerenone on the other hand was structurally derived from Spironolactone. It has a slightly weaker binding affinity to the MR but is more selective with only minimal binding affinity to other receptors, making it the best choice.[8]
Other MR antagonists like Finerenone are worth considering, but the best option would be to just stick with Eplerenone.
Dosages for Epleronone
Now for the fun part: Your starting dosage of Eplerenone should be 25mg and you can increase it to 50mg. Don’t go any higher than that. You can take Eplerenone long-term without any significant side effects except for disregulated electrolytes. Seriously, keep them in check.
The best time of the day to use Eplerenone is in the morning, when your aldosterone levels spike.[9]
In fact, Eplerenone may even be a great addition to support your cardiovascular health, as it does the following:
- Reduces coronary vascular inflammation and oxidative stress
- Improves endothelial function, ventricular remodeling, norepinephrine uptake, and heart rate variability
- Attenuates platelet aggregation
[10]
The best time of the day to use Eplerenone is in the morning, when your aldosterone levels spike.[9]
In fact, Eplerenone may even be a great addition to support your cardiovascular health, as it does the following:
- Reduces coronary vascular inflammation and oxidative stress
- Improves endothelial function, ventricular remodeling, norepinephrine uptake, and heart rate variability
- Attenuates platelet aggregation
[10]
How to temporarily debloat
A stronger and temporary alternative to MR antagonists are the so called loop diuretics. They work by inhibiting sodium and chloride reabsorption in the kidneys, thus promoting the excretion of water and electrolytes.
The most commonly used loop diuretic is furosemide. Keep in mind that dosages vary drastically between different diuretics. 40mg of furosemide is equivalent to 20mg of torsemide and 1mg of bumetanide.[11]
You should only use loop diuretics temporarily, as they may result in side effects like ototoxicity (loss of hearing)[12, 13]. Also check for possible drug interactions.
The most commonly used loop diuretic is furosemide. Keep in mind that dosages vary drastically between different diuretics. 40mg of furosemide is equivalent to 20mg of torsemide and 1mg of bumetanide.[11]
You should only use loop diuretics temporarily, as they may result in side effects like ototoxicity (loss of hearing)[12, 13]. Also check for possible drug interactions.
Dosages for furosemide
Typical dosages of furosemide in studies range from 20 to 120mg. I would strictly advise against dosages above 120mg.[14]
Take the furosemide a few hours before the time window in which you want to be debloated. Also try to reduce your water and electrolyte intake throughout the day.
Take the furosemide a few hours before the time window in which you want to be debloated. Also try to reduce your water and electrolyte intake throughout the day.
Conclusion
To permanently stay debloated take 25-50mg of Eplerenone depending on the severity of the water retention. Just be aware of potential electrolyte dysregulation and DYOR.
To debloat temporarily consider using a loop diuretic like furosemide. The ideal dose would be between 40-80mg taken a few hours before the desired time window. Don’t forget that abuse of this compound can lead to serious side effects such as ototoxicity.
To debloat temporarily consider using a loop diuretic like furosemide. The ideal dose would be between 40-80mg taken a few hours before the desired time window. Don’t forget that abuse of this compound can lead to serious side effects such as ototoxicity.
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