AsymmetricBloatcel
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Comparative Suffering
A thread you didn't know you needed to read.
Okay so this is my first somewhat high IQ post so please give me a chance. The thread would be most helpful if you read it in order and entirely. I haven't really seen a thread on this before, but I might be mistaken.
What is comparative suffering?
Why does this matter?
How does it cause these symptoms?
Comparative suffering and its relationship with inceldom
How do I stop?
How does comparative suffering take affect in the brain?
The evil comparison trap
Suffering and the environment
Sources, etc
DNR section:
A thread you didn't know you needed to read.
Okay so this is my first somewhat high IQ post so please give me a chance. The thread would be most helpful if you read it in order and entirely. I haven't really seen a thread on this before, but I might be mistaken.
What is comparative suffering?
Have you ever had a pretty tough problem in your life that you yourself felt was hard to deal with, but then you think about some kid in Africa who has it a million times worse than you? This is downplaying your own struggles. That is a form of comparative suffering. This has pretty negative effects on our mental health that I will get into later, but there are two main forms of comparative suffering that I have discovered in my research.
The first kind is deflating comparison, which is invalidating your own grievances because someone has it worse. A mild example of this is "how could I complain about my job when many people don't even have opportunities to work!"
The second kind is inflating comparison, I see this one A LOT on the forum, it's essentially the opposite of deflating, you think your life is so much more miserable than everyone else's life around you.
I'm calling these deflating and inflating comparisons for the purposes of this thread, but psychology generally discusses related words as upward and downward social comparison. My terms are specifically referring to the effect the comparison has on the person's perception of their own suffering.
The first kind is deflating comparison, which is invalidating your own grievances because someone has it worse. A mild example of this is "how could I complain about my job when many people don't even have opportunities to work!"
The second kind is inflating comparison, I see this one A LOT on the forum, it's essentially the opposite of deflating, you think your life is so much more miserable than everyone else's life around you.
I'm calling these deflating and inflating comparisons for the purposes of this thread, but psychology generally discusses related words as upward and downward social comparison. My terms are specifically referring to the effect the comparison has on the person's perception of their own suffering.
This matters because it is a universal experience almost every human goes through. Some might have worse off cases of it than others, but stomping it out before it grows out of control is very important. Here is a list of common symptoms from this affect.
1. Stress
2. Anxiety
3. Bitterness
4. Withdrawal
5. Quitting
6. Burnout
7. Disconnection
8. Lack of empathy (big one on this forum
)
9. Minimization of struggles
10. Judgmental mind space
Each of these problems can cause one another, it's even possible for you to have all 10 at once. Now remember, correlation is not causation, so just because you might have one of these symptoms, doesn't mean you're a secret victim to comparative suffering.
1. Stress
2. Anxiety
3. Bitterness
4. Withdrawal
5. Quitting
6. Burnout
7. Disconnection
8. Lack of empathy (big one on this forum
) 9. Minimization of struggles
10. Judgmental mind space
Each of these problems can cause one another, it's even possible for you to have all 10 at once. Now remember, correlation is not causation, so just because you might have one of these symptoms, doesn't mean you're a secret victim to comparative suffering.
Invalidating your struggles can also invalidate thoughts and emotions, which is a big no-no. Invalidating these things can cause you to have lack of entitlement. Furthermore, reinforcing your struggles by downplaying everyone else can have the opposite affect, making you extremely entitled and feel superior or different from everyone else.
Purple = both
Orange = inflative
Blue = deflative
1. stress can accumulate from pushing away your problems because you feel like solving them is unwarranted
2. anxiety can worsen or start appearing because of this stress
3. bitterness to other people is caused by sense of entitlement
4. withdrawal is also started by sense of entitlement or sense of being different / superior to other people, causing it to be harder to fit in
5/6. quitting and burnout are sometimes results of loss of resilience from emotional denial
7. disconnection from social circles etc, similar to withdrawal
8. having inflating comparison can cause lack of empathy via feeling like you are so much worse off than everyone else
9. minimization of struggles - no shit water is wet
10. you are more prone to judge others when you feel superior to them
After reviewing this, I can conclude that having the inflation type of suffering can be extremely damaging to social life. While deflation can be extremely damaging to personal emotions.
It is also possible to have both cases at once.
Purple = both
Orange = inflative
Blue = deflative
1. stress can accumulate from pushing away your problems because you feel like solving them is unwarranted
2. anxiety can worsen or start appearing because of this stress
3. bitterness to other people is caused by sense of entitlement
4. withdrawal is also started by sense of entitlement or sense of being different / superior to other people, causing it to be harder to fit in
5/6. quitting and burnout are sometimes results of loss of resilience from emotional denial
7. disconnection from social circles etc, similar to withdrawal
8. having inflating comparison can cause lack of empathy via feeling like you are so much worse off than everyone else
9. minimization of struggles - no shit water is wet
10. you are more prone to judge others when you feel superior to them
After reviewing this, I can conclude that having the inflation type of suffering can be extremely damaging to social life. While deflation can be extremely damaging to personal emotions.
It is also possible to have both cases at once.
Many self proclaimed incels have an extremely unfair rational that in my eyes, is caused by inflation type comparative suffering.
A controversial example of this (especially on this forum) is the use of the word "normies"
This word allows users to degrade people who are unknowledgeable about inceldom / lm. This can reinforce beliefs about how terrible your life is and how "normies" and "foids" are evil.
The lack of empathy caused by this is reversable but is extreme, it also causes severe cases of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
An even MORE controversial example of this is Elliot Rodger.
My hypothesis is that the "king of the incels" himself had a severe case of inflative comparative suffering, by constantly making his life look like shit in the eyes of men surrounding him, dismissing others pain by glorifying his own, he eventually lost the plot and murdered many people.
I know a lot of you might even look up to Elliot Rodger, and if that's the case, maybe you should seek help, but I do want you to consider what I am saying.
A controversial example of this (especially on this forum) is the use of the word "normies"
This word allows users to degrade people who are unknowledgeable about inceldom / lm. This can reinforce beliefs about how terrible your life is and how "normies" and "foids" are evil.
The lack of empathy caused by this is reversable but is extreme, it also causes severe cases of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
An even MORE controversial example of this is Elliot Rodger.
My hypothesis is that the "king of the incels" himself had a severe case of inflative comparative suffering, by constantly making his life look like shit in the eyes of men surrounding him, dismissing others pain by glorifying his own, he eventually lost the plot and murdered many people.
I know a lot of you might even look up to Elliot Rodger, and if that's the case, maybe you should seek help, but I do want you to consider what I am saying.
This was honestly the hardest part of the thread in terms of research because a lot of what I read was seemingly bullshit.
One way is to "give yourself permission to feel", regardless of what you think your life is like compared to someone else. When "giving yourself permission to feel" DO NOT use this as an excuse to put others down, focus on yourself and your own problems.
Another way is to educate yourself on other peoples lives without doing any comparison, read books, step out of your comfort zone to learn about other people's lives rather than groveling in your own. The amount of whinging I have seen on this site is pitiful and should be put to rest.
Be open to diverse opinions or thoughts. This is extremely helpful even outside of fixing comparative suffering, it makes you a better human that is more knowledgeable and neuroplastic. A lack of willingness to listen to the opposing side of whatever topic you're discussing is a major cause for problems in contemporary politics. ESPECIALLY in America.
One way is to "give yourself permission to feel", regardless of what you think your life is like compared to someone else. When "giving yourself permission to feel" DO NOT use this as an excuse to put others down, focus on yourself and your own problems.
Another way is to educate yourself on other peoples lives without doing any comparison, read books, step out of your comfort zone to learn about other people's lives rather than groveling in your own. The amount of whinging I have seen on this site is pitiful and should be put to rest.
Be open to diverse opinions or thoughts. This is extremely helpful even outside of fixing comparative suffering, it makes you a better human that is more knowledgeable and neuroplastic. A lack of willingness to listen to the opposing side of whatever topic you're discussing is a major cause for problems in contemporary politics. ESPECIALLY in America.
fyi: inflation = upward, deflation = downward
In a study I read, researchers show results from brain imaging studies to notice possible patterns with the brain and with comparison. This is what I learned in short summary;
Social comparison uses several brain regions involved with emotion, reward, and decision-making. This has been in affect since as early as the primates.
When people make upward comparisons the anterior insula and dorsal anterior cingulate cortex (dACC) become more involved. These areas are associated with negative emotions, conflict, and processing unpleasant experiences. We saw this ourselves when drawing conclusions from possible symptoms. Downward comparisons can activate reward-related areas such as the ventral striatum. Funny enough, this part of the brain controls motivation and decision making. This provides evidence that your brain evaluates your situation relative to other people, which can change how you feel about your own circumstances.
If you're interested, here is the study;
study
In a study I read, researchers show results from brain imaging studies to notice possible patterns with the brain and with comparison. This is what I learned in short summary;
Social comparison uses several brain regions involved with emotion, reward, and decision-making. This has been in affect since as early as the primates.
When people make upward comparisons the anterior insula and dorsal anterior cingulate cortex (dACC) become more involved. These areas are associated with negative emotions, conflict, and processing unpleasant experiences. We saw this ourselves when drawing conclusions from possible symptoms. Downward comparisons can activate reward-related areas such as the ventral striatum. Funny enough, this part of the brain controls motivation and decision making. This provides evidence that your brain evaluates your situation relative to other people, which can change how you feel about your own circumstances.
If you're interested, here is the study;
study
One thing I think is important to understand is that comparative suffering can become a feedback loop.
For deflating comparison, it can look something like this:
Problem - comparison - "someone has it worse" - invalidate your emotions - don't address the problem - problem gets worse - more stress - compare again.
For inflating comparison, it can go the other direction:
Problem - comparison - "nobody has it as bad as me" - resentment - withdrawal - less social support - more isolation - problems feel even worse - compare again.
The interesting part is that both sides can end up reinforcing themselves.
If you constantly tell yourself that your problems aren't important, you may stop giving yourself the attention necessary to actually solve them.
If you constantly tell yourself that your problems are uniquely terrible, you may start interpreting normal disagreements, inconveniences, or other people's successes as evidence that the world is against you.
This is why I think the solution isn't simply "stop comparing yourself to people." Comparison is something humans naturally do, and it's not inherently bad. The problem is when comparison becomes the standard you use to determine whether you're allowed to feel something.
Someone having a worse life doesn't make your problem disappear.
Someone having a better life doesn't automatically mean your life is uniquely terrible.
The healthier mindset is basically:
"Their suffering is real, but mine is just as real too."
For deflating comparison, it can look something like this:
Problem - comparison - "someone has it worse" - invalidate your emotions - don't address the problem - problem gets worse - more stress - compare again.
For inflating comparison, it can go the other direction:
Problem - comparison - "nobody has it as bad as me" - resentment - withdrawal - less social support - more isolation - problems feel even worse - compare again.
The interesting part is that both sides can end up reinforcing themselves.
If you constantly tell yourself that your problems aren't important, you may stop giving yourself the attention necessary to actually solve them.
If you constantly tell yourself that your problems are uniquely terrible, you may start interpreting normal disagreements, inconveniences, or other people's successes as evidence that the world is against you.
This is why I think the solution isn't simply "stop comparing yourself to people." Comparison is something humans naturally do, and it's not inherently bad. The problem is when comparison becomes the standard you use to determine whether you're allowed to feel something.
Someone having a worse life doesn't make your problem disappear.
Someone having a better life doesn't automatically mean your life is uniquely terrible.
The healthier mindset is basically:
"Their suffering is real, but mine is just as real too."
Interesting fact; your suffering is actually a LOT closer to your comparison than you might think.
Here is an example:
You take two twin ducklings and place one in the wilderness and raise one at home. The wilderness has very scarce materials and is dangerous for the first duckling to live in, and the one you raised at home has a great life. After 5 years or however long, you worsen each ducklings environment. The wilderness one gets an even more scarce environment to live in, and the home life duckling must start living in the wilderness. The wilderness the home duckling lives in is better than the wilderness' duckling original home by a fair amount. Yet the home duckling dies first even though its change was less impactful in the eyes of the wilderness duckling. Why is that?
That was probably a mouthful and hard to read because I'm fucking retarded
That being said the moral of the story is comparing yourself to someone will not in any way be beneficial.
Here is an example:
You take two twin ducklings and place one in the wilderness and raise one at home. The wilderness has very scarce materials and is dangerous for the first duckling to live in, and the one you raised at home has a great life. After 5 years or however long, you worsen each ducklings environment. The wilderness one gets an even more scarce environment to live in, and the home life duckling must start living in the wilderness. The wilderness the home duckling lives in is better than the wilderness' duckling original home by a fair amount. Yet the home duckling dies first even though its change was less impactful in the eyes of the wilderness duckling. Why is that?
That was probably a mouthful and hard to read because I'm fucking retarded
That being said the moral of the story is comparing yourself to someone will not in any way be beneficial.
Before anyone starts typing “source???”:
Comparative suffering is the framework I'm using in this post, not an established psychiatric diagnosis.
I'm also not claiming that comparative suffering directly causes stress, anxiety, withdrawal, burnout, etc. These things have many possible causes, and the evidence I'm using mostly concerns social comparison rather than comparative suffering specifically.
The brain imaging research is also correlational. Seeing activity in a particular brain region doesn't mean that region is exclusively responsible for a particular emotion.
So take this thread as an attempt to connect existing research on social comparison, emotional processing, and empathy into a framework, not as a newly discovered psychological disorder. I am not a fucking doctor or psychologist or therapist, I am just a random guy.
I also did not claim to be diagnosing elliot rodger, and I am not excusing his awful and violent actions.
Sources:
withtherapy.com
psychologytoday.com
journeytojoycounseling.com
Study:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6866367/
Comparative suffering is the framework I'm using in this post, not an established psychiatric diagnosis.
I'm also not claiming that comparative suffering directly causes stress, anxiety, withdrawal, burnout, etc. These things have many possible causes, and the evidence I'm using mostly concerns social comparison rather than comparative suffering specifically.
The brain imaging research is also correlational. Seeing activity in a particular brain region doesn't mean that region is exclusively responsible for a particular emotion.
So take this thread as an attempt to connect existing research on social comparison, emotional processing, and empathy into a framework, not as a newly discovered psychological disorder. I am not a fucking doctor or psychologist or therapist, I am just a random guy.
I also did not claim to be diagnosing elliot rodger, and I am not excusing his awful and violent actions.
Sources:
withtherapy.com
psychologytoday.com
journeytojoycounseling.com
Study:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6866367/
fuck you read my thread
