How to test your forward growth (Pics inside). See what your face will look like after doing facepull.

[Luke LLL]

Here is @Alcezar demonstrating how to properly test your forward growth potential.

Pic 1 - Resting posture. Not necessarily recessed, but some forward growth is definitely achievable, as you will see in pic 2:

Pic 2 - As you can see, I asked him to jut his jaw out as far as he was able to. This is the minimum amount of forward growth that you can expect to achieve from a face puller. Remember that the jaw isn’t used to being in this position and still needs time to move. After you jut your jaw forward you can look at your pictures and have a better understanding of what your results will be with a facepuller. Good luck guys.

 

[Eduardo DOV]

what a facepuller is supposed to do ?? pull ur maxila out sot that ur jaw go out that amount ? i dont think it will happend at all in adults

 

[Slyfex8]

Here is @Alcezar demonstrating how to properly test your forward growth potential.
View attachment 191260
Pic 1 - Resting posture. Not necessarily recessed, but some forward growth is definitely achievable, as you will see in pic 2:
View attachment 191261
Pic 2 - As you can see, I asked him to jut his jaw out as far as he was able to. This is the minimum amount of forward growth that you can expect to achieve from a face puller. Remember that the jaw isn’t used to being in this position and still needs time to move. After you jut your jaw forward you can look at your pictures and have a better understanding of what your results will be with a facepuller. Good luck guys.

You will not get results if you didn't get the money and the orthodontist (Except you are buying it and screwing it yourself but I'm not gonna say it's a good idea) to have MSE installed in your mouth anyways, and who is gonna have MSE installed on this forum? Probably almost nobody.

 

[weallburninhell]

Why just check ur new vector faggot

Why just check ur new vector faggot

Mew *

 

[Luke LLL]

what a facepuller is supposed to do ?? pull ur maxila out sot that ur jaw go out that amount ? i dont think it will happend at all in adults

What it does is move your maxilla forward. Most people have a recessed maxilla, so almost everyone can benefit from a facepuller.

 

[Slyfex8]

what a facepuller is supposed to do ?? pull ur maxila out sot that ur jaw go out that amount ? i dont think it will happend at all in adults

You can probably get like 5mm of maxilla protraction as an adult by using MSE and a facepulling device for like 8hours a day with high pulling forces like 3kg.

 

[Luke LLL]

You will not get results if you didn't get the money and the orthodontist (Except you are buying it and screwing it yourself but I'm not gonna say it's a good idea) to have MSE installed in your mouth anyways, and who is gonna have MSE installed on this forum? Probably almost nobody.

No, MSE does not move your maxilla forward. That is completely different. MSE expands the maxilla.

 

[Slyfex8]

No, MSE does not move your maxilla forward. That is completely different. MSE expands the maxilla.

But MSE disrupt your maxilla sutures and provides an anchor point to the maxilla.

You need both for protraction using a facepulling device.

 

[Eduardo DOV]

No, MSE does not move your maxilla forward. That is completely different. MSE expands the maxilla.

expand maxila ---> u get a wide upper face
expand nostrils too

besides that, its good, u probably get a better airway

 

[Luke LLL]

But MSE disruptyour maxilla sutures and provides an anchor point to the maxilla.

You need both for protraction using a facepulling device.

You can anchor te maxilla with a facepull appliance, you do not have to screw in to the maxilla. You only need MSE if you want to expand the maxilla.

expand maxila ---> u get a wide upper face
expand nostrils too

besides that, its good, u probably get a better airway

Fixing a recessed maxilla can improve under eye support, recessed mandible (jaw), side profile, and zygos.

 

[Slyfex8]

You can anchor te maxilla with a facepull appliance, you do not have to screw in to the maxilla. You only need MSE if you want to expand the maxilla.

Never proven to works, where are the studies? Why I should believe you ?

You are saying a bunch of shits, you don't know what you are saying, you never provided any studies.

 

[reptiles]

Here is @Alcezar demonstrating how to properly test your forward growth potential.
View attachment 191260
Pic 1 - Resting posture. Not necessarily recessed, but some forward growth is definitely achievable, as you will see in pic 2:
View attachment 191261
Pic 2 - As you can see, I asked him to jut his jaw out as far as he was able to. This is the minimum amount of forward growth that you can expect to achieve from a face puller. Remember that the jaw isn’t used to being in this position and still needs time to move. After you jut your jaw forward you can look at your pictures and have a better understanding of what your results will be with a facepuller. Good luck guys.

Good post op and massive respect for the method i am just curious how did you arrive at your mouth moving forward as being the limit?

Never proven to works, where are the studies? Why I should believe you ?

You are saying a bunch of shits, you don't know what you are saying, you never provided any studies.

It's hypothetical and you lose literally nothing it's more convincing than mewing as well

 

[Luke LLL]

Never proven to works, where are the studies? Why I should believe you ?

You are saying a bunch of shits, you don't know what you are saying, you never provided any studies.

You haven’t either lol. If you want to research this you can, I’m just providing you with info. I don’t have to help anyone.

Good post op and massive respect for the method i am just curious how did you arrive at your mouth moving forward as being the limit?




It's hypothetical and you lose literally nothing it's more convincing than mewing as well

Thanks for the question. As I said in the original post, this is the minimum amount of forward growth that is possible. The jaw is not aquatinted to it’s new position yet when you do this test, so we can only assume that it’s the minimum amount of growth achievable.

 

[lookserumaxeru]

is there any evidence you can link me to that shows that a facepuller actually works?

 

[Slyfex8]

You haven’t either lol. If you want to research this you can, I’m just providing you with info. I don’t have to help anyone.

Thanks for the question. As I said in the original post, this is the minimum amount of forward growth that is possible. The jaw is not aquatinted to it’s new position yet when you do this test, so we can only assume that it’s the minimum amount of growth achievable.

Class III treatment by combining facemask (FM) and maxillary skeletal expander (MSE) | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - Seminars in Orthodontics,Accepted manuscript,doi:10.1053/j.sodo.2018.01.009

pdfhost.io

Among countless designs of MARPE, the Maxillary Skeletal Expander (MSE) has

unique features that produce unique treatment results. MSE causes expansion of

the entire midface, disrupting all peri-maxillary structures. When MSE is applied

in combination with FM, almost negligible vertical side effects are observed, the

existing antero-posterior dental compensation can be reversed, the maxilla

advances efficiently in large magnitude, and the skeletal protraction is possible

even in older growing patients. Combining FM and MSE has also resulted in some

skeletal protraction even in mature patients, simulating distraction-like

movement, which gives hope of discovering a novel non-surgical orthopedic

treatment modality for Class III adult patients.

Website fucked the text format, free to read the pdf.

 

[Deleted member 2378]

Cope, That is not a side profile picture
Fucking retarded cucks

 

[softLoverr]

Never proven to works, where are the studies? Why I should believe you ?

You are saying a bunch of shits, you don't know what you are saying, you never provided any studies.

We just dont know if pulling on a normal expander apliance will have an impact on the whole maxilla , my ortho who worked with mew before said its possible, however i dont like to belive in orthos who are trying to sell me stuff. Many people here dont need MSE , MSE is good for people with narrow palates and very narrow maxillas, if your on the average range your not going to get insane results probably not worth your money. Its like if some1 has 12cms of zygo width u add 4mms to it and its noticeable, if another person has 14cms zygo width adding 4mms to it not as noticiable. Plus get rdy for fucked up teeth for 2-3 years. Anyways we should try to figure out if indeed is possible to move the whole maxilla with a normal expander as anchorage it would be amazing news for this community since its alot more affordable and every1 could do it even without an ortho. Im being a bit of a guinea pig atm and ive been pulling on my hyrax expander for the past months.

 

[Slyfex8]

We just dont know if pulling on a normal expander apliance will have an impact on the whole maxilla , my ortho who worked with mew before said its possible, however i dont like to belive in orthos who are trying to sell me stuff. Many people here dont need MSE , MSE is good for people with narrow palates and very narrow maxillas, if your on the average range your not going to get insane results probably not worth your money. Its like if some1 has 12cms of zygo width u add 4mms to it and its noticeable, if another person has 14cms zygo width adding 4mms to it not as noticiable. Plus get rdy for fucked up teeth for 2-3 years. Anyways we should try to figure out if indeed is possible to move the whole maxilla with a normal expander as anchorage it would be amazing news for this community since its alot more affordable and every1 could do it even without an ortho. Im being a bit of a guinea pig atm and ive been pulling on my hyrax expander for the past months.

You haven't read my PDF and haven't done any research on internet, using tooth borne expander for facepulling has been done for years, and it's proven to mainly cause alveolar ridge changes instead of true maxilla protraction. Especially in adults, alveolar ridge will move WAAAY before any true maxilla protraction.

 

[Chadelite]

Here is @Alcezar demonstrating how to properly test your forward growth potential.
View attachment 191260
Pic 1 - Resting posture. Not necessarily recessed, but some forward growth is definitely achievable, as you will see in pic 2:
View attachment 191261
Pic 2 - As you can see, I asked him to jut his jaw out as far as he was able to. This is the minimum amount of forward growth that you can expect to achieve from a face puller. Remember that the jaw isn’t used to being in this position and still needs time to move. After you jut your jaw forward you can look at your pictures and have a better understanding of what your results will be with a facepuller. Good luck guys.

My jaw barely moves forward when I jut


Why is it

That even giga Tyrones don't have perfect forward growth

Ie the chin is behind their lips


Simple

Genetics

 

[softLoverr]

You haven't read my PDF and haven't done any research on internet, using tooth borne expander for facepulling has been done for years, and it's proven to mainly cause alveolar ridge changes instead of true maxilla protraction. Especially in adults, alveolar ridge will move WAAAY before any true maxilla protraction.

Could you provide me the segments or the specific studies that actually prove that's the case? I would like to confront my ortho next tuesday about it and see what he has to say, cause he swears by it, that he can move everything even shorten the face in some cases. Im not saying i belive him, i actually dont and its the reason im not using the mask for more thn 8 hours a day now.

 

[Luke LLL]

is there any evidence you can link me to that shows that a facepuller actually works?

 

[Slyfex8]

Could you provide me the segments or the specific studies that actually prove that's the case? I would like to confront my ortho next tuesday about it and see what he has to say, cause he swears by it, that he can move everything even shorten the face in some cases.

Actually, you can firstly look at my PDF, then this study:

Comparison of two maxillary protraction protocols: tooth-borne versus bone-anchored protraction facemask treatment - PubMed

The Hybrid Hyrax bone-anchored RPE appliance minimized the side effect encounter by tooth-borne RPE appliance for maxillary expansion and protraction and may serve as an alternative treatment appliance for correcting class III patients with a hyperdivergent growth pattern.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In the past I found better studies about this specific subject but I'm unable to find them anymore, it was basically saying that the older the patient, the less effective is any tooth anchored appliance since teeth, alveolar ridges will be fucked before any true movement of the maxilla.

 

[her]

View attachment 191331

holy

 

[Deleted member 3990]

if this is true that your jutted jaw could be the minimum of forward growth, then, no joke, I would be the most DOM guy in the city holy shit.


I cant believe this lol

 

[Luke LLL]

if this is true that your jutted jaw could be the minimum of forward growth, then, no joke, I would be the most DOM guy in the city holy shit.


I cant believe this lol

What are you skeptical about? You can only pull the maxilla as far as the jaw can reach.

 

[Deleted member 3990]

What are you skeptical about? You can only pull the maxilla as far as the jaw can reach.

the whole maxilla with MSE + FM ? This is a double LeFort 3 if I would do it

@Slyfex8 is this really possible ???

 

[Slyfex8]

the whole maxilla with MSE + FM ? This is a double LeFort 3 if I would do it

@Slyfex8 is this really possible ???

Is it similar as a Lefort 3 advancement yes, now the quantity of advancement is your true problem, how much mm of maxilla protraction are you going to get while you are on MSE and your sutures are open? It's the true question.

5mm of advancement is like a really huge change for someone kinda strongly recessed like a mouth breather.

 

[Deleted member 3990]

Is it similar as a Lefort 3 advancement yes, now the quantity of advancement is your true problem, how much mm of maxilla protraction are you going to get while you are on MSE and your sutures are open? It's the true question.

5mm of advancement is like a really huge change for someone kinda strongly recessed like a mouth breather.

but no ccw rotation possible?

if i still pull at 30° ? Doesnt matter right?

 

[Slyfex8]

but no ccw rotation possible?

if i still pull at 30° ? Doesnt matter right?

I would not try.

Every clinical case was pulling at an angle below the occlusal plane. I would pull at a -30 degrees angle

Won Moon, creator of MSE clearly said he thinks CCW rotation is not possible.

 

[Deleted member 3990]

whe

I would not try.

Every clinical case was pulling at an angle below the occlusal plane. I would pull at a -30 degrees angle

Won Moon, creator of MSE clearly said he thinks CCW rotation is not possible.

re are the risks ?

 

[Slyfex8]

whe

re are the risks ?

This is the kind of movement you are going to get from this, now I let you deduce if you would like it or not.

 

[Deleted member 3990]

View attachment 191373

This is the kind of movement you are going to get from this, now I let you deduce if you would like it or not.

no ccw nor a CW ?

 

[Slyfex8]

no ccw nor a CW ?

On the simulation they call it "Translate forward" basically it's a lot of forward displacement with a VERY minimal lenghtening if the maxilla.

 

[poonkiller9000]

nice, Im not too sure about facepulling but hardmew def works with commitment.
thats guy is very GL though i'd rate 7 "PSL" tbh. has he done face pulling, mewing?

 

[cardiologist]

That profile is GL ngl

 

[Luke LLL]

nice, Im not too sure about facepulling but hardmew def works with commitment.
thats guy is very GL though i'd rate 7 "PSL" tbh. has he done face pulling, mewing?

He hasn't done face pull yet, just good bone development

 

[GetThatBread]

Everyone just try it tbh, what’s there to lose. I’m 90% sure it works, there’s some legit cases of mewing so if mewing worked than Copes device is surely to work as well. @Slyfex8 that study was all a simulation and hypothetical

 

[Bewusst]

Doubt but the imagination of this amount of forward growth is truly arousing

 

[Slyfex8]

Everyone just try it tbh, what’s there to lose. I’m 90% sure it works, there’s some legit cases of mewing so if mewing worked than Copes device is surely to work as well. @Slyfex8 that study was all a simulation and hypothetical

There is nothing hypothetical, it comes from the Won Moon paper, and this is the exact kind of movements real patients got, how you want it to be impossible... If you pull forward and downward the maxilla moves forward and downward, there is no obstacle for a downward movement.

It's pulling with a positive vector that is hypothetical.

And also, there is not a single legit pic of mewing for late teenagers or adults.

 

[Luke LLL]

There is nothing hypothetical, it comes from the Won Moon paper, and this is the exact kind of movements real patients got, how you want it to be impossible... If you pull forward and downward the maxilla moves forward and downward, there is no obstacle for a downward movement.

It's pulling with a positive vector that is hypothetical.

I'm taking x-rays and doing it we aren't going out like this

 

[Ruby]

tf is going on in the background

 

[Luke LLL]

tf is going on in the background

Good question I don't know what all that stuff is lol

 

[Deleted member 685]

@nelson @Slyfex8 http://www.njcponline.com/article.a...me=21;issue=7;spage=854;epage=858;aulast=Kale

This study says there's not much of a significant statistical difference between the groups with and without skeletal anchorage

 

[Chintuck22]

Is palatal expansion possible in adults?

 

[Luke LLL]

Is palatal expansion possible in adults?

Yes

 

[Chintuck22]

Yes

I mean't surgical expansion

 

[Luke LLL]

I mean't surgical expansion

What surgery?

 

[Chintuck22]

What surgery?

Lefort 1, MSE.. i mean can you increase width with just expander, link (https://www.bracesshop.com/en/active-plates/1/y-plate/3-way-schwarz-upper-jaw), also it's 5 times cheaper than the orthodontic one

 

[Luke LLL]

Lefort 1, MSE.. i mean can you increase width with just expander, link (https://www.bracesshop.com/en/active-plates/1/y-plate/3-way-schwarz-upper-jaw), also it's 5 times cheaper than the orthodontic one

With MSE yes. I haven’t researched lefort though

 

[Pendejo]

View attachment 191373

This is the kind of movement you are going to get from this, now I let you deduce if you would like it or not.

FUCK.

So no CCW rotation from MSE + FM, right?