I decided to start beltpulling and

tomahawk said:
I hear my sutures fizzing (good), my bite becomes different immediately (good sign of movement) and it gives me hope
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No way this works
 
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tomahawk said:
@PSLbbc @maxximus @xzylecrey @nsk4ll
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Wow idk abt belt pullings results but this is what its all about :feelshah: goodluck bhai cantwait to see what heppens
 
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tomahawk said:
@PSLbbc @maxximus @xzylecrey @nsk4ll
Click to expand...
epic

I don't know much about this. that guy jcpenney never showed results or anything

seems copium but youre welcome to try lol

btw

are you sure that the results you got from thumbpulling werent dental tipping?
 
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tomahawk said:
Yes
My teeth are straught-inward
Click to expand...
You could with facepulling. intermittent forces work very well for dental movement but not that well for actual sutural strain unless ypu find a way to convey the forces directly to the sutures

doing this sends them through your teeth first. so you'll probably get SOME tipping. and the forces probably wouldnt be enough to actually hit the sutures, theyre going to get absorbed through the PDL and the teeth
 
maxximus said:
You could with facepulling. intermittent forces work very well for dental movement but not that well for actual sutural strain unless ypu find a way to convey the forces directly to the sutures

doing this sends them through your teeth first. so you'll probably get SOME tipping. and the forces probably wouldnt be enough to actually hit the sutures, theyre going to get absorbed through the PDL and the teeth
Click to expand...
I doubt they'll be fully absorbed.
 
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tomahawk said:
I doubt they'll be fully absorbed.
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Yeah, I guess

You only need a little bit of sutural strain anyways to trigger remodeling. This is going to be no results for the first month or so and then it might ramp up
 
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maxximus said:
Yeah, I guess

You only need a little bit of sutural strain anyways to trigger remodeling. This is going to be no results for the first month or so and then it might ramp up
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The thing with beltpulls is feeling
Post pull you can FEEL your maxilla moved OUT because you literally can't even close your incisors together, etc etc
Id say its much better for forward growth than tp
@ihatemySOST made a great "opener" theory that you only need to pull once in the morning really hard to stimulate an opening and hold that throughout the day by minor-ish signals and proved it through studies
We could analogically do a similar thing with beltpulls and thumbpulls by beltpulling in the morning as an opener and tp throughout the day (tp is much more convenient and easy thats why)
 
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tomahawk said:
The thing with beltpulls is feeling
Post pull you can FEEL your maxilla moved OUT because you literally can't even close your incisors together, etc etc
Id say its much better for forward growth than tp
@ihatemySOST made a great "opener" theory that you only need to pull once in the morning really hard to stimulate an opening and hold that throughout the day by minor-ish signals and proved it through studies
We could analogically do a similar thing with beltpulls and thumbpulls by beltpulling in the morning as an opener and tp throughout the day (tp is much more convenient and easy thats why)
Click to expand...

I haven't seen his post but I already know that loading, especially cyclic, as little as 30 minutes a day can stimulate sutural widening

in PIGS. pigs and human sutures are VERY similar

The thing isn't it not working, it's it working and producing undesirable results as well

why not pull on the rugae? soft tissue compresses in under a second and after that you get force directly on the bone
 
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maxximus said:
I haven't seen his post but I already know that loading, especially cyclic, as little as 30 minutes a day can stimulate sutural widening

in PIGS. pigs and human sutures are VERY similar

The thing isn't it not working, it's it working and producing undesirable results as well

why not pull on the rugae? soft tissue compresses in under a second and after that you get force directly on the bone
Click to expand...
Good shit
 
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tomahawk said:
The thing with beltpulls is feeling
Post pull you can FEEL your maxilla moved OUT because you literally can't even close your incisors together, etc etc
Id say its much better for forward growth than tp
@ihatemySOST made a great "opener" theory that you only need to pull once in the morning really hard to stimulate an opening and hold that throughout the day by minor-ish signals and proved it through studies
We could analogically do a similar thing with beltpulls and thumbpulls by beltpulling in the morning as an opener and tp throughout the day (tp is much more convenient and easy thats why)
Click to expand...
true
 
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tomahawk said:
I hear my sutures fizzing (good), my bite becomes different immediately (good sign of movement) and it gives me hope
Click to expand...
mirin, might actually try this
 
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tomahawk said:
Turning 16 in a few
Doesnt matter, study shows even 70yo+ can get remodelling through pulls close to the suture
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Yup, hate the notion that the suture becomes straight fucking concrete after 20, it NEVER fully fuses, NEVER, it’s just that after puberty it’s harder for the suture to open back up again
 
do you do suture loosening or something else
 
tomahawk said:
I bite the belt with my premolars-molars and pull ~45 degrees up and forward for 30 mins twice
2 times a day
Click to expand...
My goal is forward growth too and I've been belt pulling past few days 1-2 mins at full intensity every hour. I don't think I can keep up this freq for months tho. I might do the same as you in the future.

First time I pulled, It was painful I felt the force in my maxilla from the front part above the teeth to all the way back right under the eye sockets but no pops or cracks like thumbpulling did. My guess is that it's causing ccw rotation at microscopic speeds.

With thumbpulling we have a clear intention, widen the palate by splitting the palatal suture down the middle and widening the palate has been proven to cause forward growth by a few mms.

With belt pulling tho, the direction of the force we're applying (45 degrees upward and forwards) there's no maxillary suture that runs in the direction to be affected by the force and split. I've thought about the transverse palatal suture but it doesn't go all the way through the maxilla like the medial palatal suture.
Palate
1768897120864

The entire maxilla is being pulled upwards and forward. I guess we have to hope for either ccw rotation or the maxilla literally moving forward due to the force.

I haven't seen much cases on belt pulling or anything similar to pulling in upwards and forward direction except that one guy who used a diy reversepull headgear out of a baseball helmet

and another guy who claimed 3mm of forward growth with 3 months of towel pulling. After talking to him I switched from belt to towel because the belt was too thick to put in my mouth so I could only bite with pre-molars and bits of leather were left in my mouth after. Would be interesting to see more cases with people who are dedicated enough.

I'm not gonna call anything cope unless I try it consistently for a long period of time.
I'll check in again after months.
 
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FramecelSlayer said:
My goal is forward growth too and I've been belt pulling past few days 1-2 mins at full intensity every hour. I don't think I can keep up this freq for months tho. I might do the same as you in the future.

First time I pulled, It was painful I felt the force in my maxilla from the front part above the teeth to all the way back right under the eye sockets but no pops or cracks like thumbpulling did. My guess is that it's causing ccw rotation at microscopic speeds.

With thumbpulling we have a clear intention, widen the palate by splitting the palatal suture down the middle and widening the palate has been proven to cause forward growth by a few mms.

With belt pulling tho, the direction of the force we're applying (45 degrees upward and forwards) there's no maxillary suture that runs in the direction to be affected by the force and split. I've thought about the transverse palatal suture but it doesn't go all the way through the maxilla like the medial palatal suture.
View attachment 4559299View attachment 4559300
The entire maxilla is being pulled upwards and forward. I guess we have to hope for either ccw rotation or the maxilla literally moving forward due to the force.

I haven't seen much cases on belt pulling or anything similar to pulling in upwards and forward direction except that one guy who used a diy reversepull headgear out of a baseball helmet

and another guy who claimed 3mm of forward growth with 3 months of towel pulling. After talking to him I switched from belt to towel because the belt was too thick to put in my mouth so I could only bite with pre-molars and bits of leather were left in my mouth after. Would be interesting to see more cases with people who are dedicated enough.

I'm not gonna call anything cope unless I try it consistently for a long period of time.
I'll check in again after months.
Click to expand...

strong 2nd post
 
tomahawk said:
I hear my sutures fizzing (good), my bite becomes different immediately (good sign of movement) and it gives me hope
Click to expand...
Does it work for flat maxillas

Somebody said it doesn't
 
tomahawk said:
I bite it down and pull it with my arms while lying down to minimize neck strain
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And you do this for 30 mins straight 2x a day? My triceps start to give out after a few minutes.
 
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FramecelSlayer said:
And you do this for 30 mins straight 2x a day? My triceps start to give out after a few minutes.
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i do this for a minute or two 2 times a day at best
30 minutes??:feelswhy:
 
tomahawk said:
I bite the belt with my premolars-molars and pull ~45 degrees up and forward for 30 mins twice
2 times a day
Click to expand...
then wdym here. I thought you were fr pulling for an hour daily. jfl
 
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FramecelSlayer said:
then wdym here. I thought you were fr pulling for an hour daily. jfl
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JFL who pulls an hour daily what are you a masochist?? :lul:
i dont have that much time to beltpull
 
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